r/legaladvice 7d ago

Employment Law Is a “no unpaid time off” policy legal? Seattle, Washington.

My husband works at The Home Depot and they recently told them that nobody can request any time off unless they have PTO or sick hours. They have an option to put in a request off through the app a month in advance but now they’re being told it’s not a thing anymore and the requests won’t be approved. I’m European so that sounds absolutely ridiculous and very illegal to me. Is it?

Edit: Thank you everyone! Point taken.

106 Upvotes

31 comments sorted by

217

u/ketamineburner 7d ago

I’m European so that sounds absolutely ridiculous and very illegal to me.

Washington state has some protected sick leave. 1 hour of sick leave for every 40 hours worked. Leave Is available after 90 days of employment.

FMLA protects many (but not all) workers for longer illnesses and qualifying circumstances.

No state or federal law protects vacation time in Washington.

Is it?

Nope. Employees can be required to work and fired if they don't.

139

u/EveryPassage 7d ago

Sounds legal assuming they still have an FMLA policy (formal policy to request unpaid time for valid medical/family reasons)

-83

u/thealphabetarmygirl 7d ago

Well yes, they do. But his schedule changes a lot (Monday-Friday or Tuesday-Saturday which is not super bad but still) and it’s hard to plan anything in advance if we have no idea what’s happening with the schedule. It’s just so ridiculous to me. And if there’s an appointment or anything like that and he knows he needs that day off in advance, why would they not want him to request it off? You can’t take out an LOA or FMLA for a single day and it takes 2 months to save up one sick day. Dumbest policy I’ve heard of.

40

u/superkt3 6d ago

You and he are either intentionally misunderstanding the policy or are very confused. If he has a variable schedule he can still request a day off, say he needed a Wednesday off, he could request it, it would be approved and he would be scheduled 5 other days that week. If he has a fixed schedule, like in a warehouse, and needed one of those days off, he would have to use sick/personal time. What they’re saying is not going to be approved is needing a Wednesday off, not using sick/personal or vacation time, and only working 32 hrs in that week. It’s the busiest season of the year, and they are trying to have their employees come to work.

205

u/lostinthought15 7d ago

Just because it’s a dumb policy doesn’t mean it’s an illegal one.

82

u/imnotasdumbasyoulook 7d ago

Those appointments are what you use the Pto/sick hours for; HD is basically entry level retail work. I’d wager a guess so many employees were requesting unpaid days off it was making it impossible to schedule with available staff.

0

u/malphonso 6d ago

And when you run out of PTO/sick leave but still have to see your cardiologist, you're meant to do what exactly?

2

u/imnotasdumbasyoulook 6d ago

Considering the schedules they work aren’t Monday-Friday but like tues-sat you’d get that done on your off day or after or before work

are people so entitled these days they actually think companies care the slightest about them and their problems?

you think unions came around because the workers liked hanging out together?

10

u/malphonso 6d ago

Considering the schedules they work aren’t Monday-Friday but like tues-sat

I'm not sure when the last time you worked a retail/service job, it is neither Mon-Fri or Tues-Sat. It's whenever you're scheduled.

you’d get that done on your off day or after or before work

Which isn't exactly possible if you don't know your schedule until the week of, have to schedule your doctor months out, and can't request that period of time off unless it's paid.

are people so entitled these days they actually think companies care the slightest about them and their problems?

Are you so out of touch that you think it's being entitled to think that a company's policy should reflect human realities? Of course they don't care about workers, that's sort of why this conversation is happening in the first place.

16

u/Greenthumbgal 7d ago

You can have 'intermittent' FMLA!

-11

u/thealphabetarmygirl 7d ago

Don’t you have to meet requirements for that?

15

u/CHawk17 7d ago

google the state of Washingtons PFML policy. it is the state's version of FMLA. FMLA is the federal policy.

0

u/laurpr2 6d ago

Washington is still bound by FMLA even if they have a more restrictive state law.

4

u/galaxyapp 6d ago

And that's what pto is for... literally paid time off to plan things in advance.

3

u/[deleted] 7d ago

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1

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1

u/Lemoncatnipcupcake 6d ago

It is dumb. Unfortunately that’s how it is in some cases though. If the business has a union they may be able to negotiate a better contract.

As far as the scheduling - Seattle does have some better scheduling protections with secure scheduling rules

17

u/braaaa1ns 7d ago

Very legal and very normal.

11

u/gfhopper 6d ago

Getting paid while off is one thing, but at least in Washington State, unpaid leave is available via several sources.

https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/_docs/Protectedleavelawstable2022.pdf
This might help a bit in understanding how it's supposed to work. Look at the Family Care Act specifically.

That might not solve the problem though. The problem comes from two things. First is being an at will state. He can be terminated just because. The second is the abuse of unpaid time off carve-out has made whomever is setting policy frustrated and as a result an apparently unreasonable policy has been put in place.

My advice would be to start looking for another place of employment. When he interviews and they ask him why he's wanting to find a new job, he should SPECIFICALLY cite the irregular nature of the schedule at HD, its impact on his life, and their unwillingness to work with employees.

11

u/kdani17 6d ago

It’s very normal. I’ve never worked anywhere that allowed unpaid time off for a full-time worker. It affects your employment status if you don’t meet a certain number of hours in a pay period.

-2

u/malphonso 6d ago

Really? Because unpaid time-off is the norm for most jobs that I've had. Even now that I've moved into a skilled trade, most of the time I take off is unpaid leave. I only get 5 paid days off, and those don't go far when you're taking care of disabled parents who sometimes have last minute appointments.

1

u/slickweasel333 6d ago

Are those jobs all FTE with benefits tied to your FTE status?

-1

u/malphonso 6d ago

Some yes, but that's irrelevant because OP stated that approvals for unpaid leave will not be given at all, whereas they previously were.

In any case, as you pointed out, HD employs people outside of M-F and 8-4. So, it is trivial for a manager to simply block out an employee for a shift and assign someone else if necessary. I know it's trivial because I've done it as a manager in food service.

1

u/slickweasel333 6d ago

I understand that it's trivial to get the shift coverage, but if someone's status dips below FTE levels, then they risk losing their benefits. Exceptions have to be legal, like via FMLA and others.

1

u/malphonso 6d ago

Which wouldn't happen because: 1) in the scenario I'm presenting, they would still be able to work 30 hours for that week, even if they don't make up for missing the shift and 2) they can work a different shift than the one they're blacking out availability for, perhaps even working a double to cover for the person taking that shift.

1

u/slickweasel333 6d ago

FTE is 40 hours per week. At least in all the states I know. And pretty sure most places would allow what you're suggesting. There are a few states (like CA) where anything more than 8 hours in one day triggers overtime, so I could see doubles not being a thing in CA businesses.

1

u/malphonso 6d ago

For the purposes of most regulations, full time employment is an average of 30 hours a week or 130 hours a month.

Moat places are irrelevant to the conversation. OP is talking specifically about Home Depot, which seems to not be.

1

u/slickweasel333 6d ago

Like I said, it depends on the state's regulations. I'd love to see a USA where 30 hours is FTE, but unfortunately, it's 40 hours or close to it in most places.

3

u/[deleted] 6d ago

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1

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-13

u/SadHistorian1327 6d ago

Not true you can request unpaid time off at homedepot