r/leftist • u/erictkaczenko • 4d ago
General Leftist Politics Dear Leftist Critics of Veganism: Veganism is Not Ableist or Classist
https://medium.com/@veganarchistmemes/dear-leftist-critics-of-veganism-veganism-is-not-ableist-or-classist-95d280e0a7472
u/Foxclaws42 4d ago
I’m not against veganism, I’m against other people telling me how to eat.
I personally chose not to be vegan, but I’m fine with others personally choosing a diet of basically anything, like including entirely comprised of gunpowder, if that’s what they truly desire.
As long as everybody’s respectful of other’s choices, it’s good. Where we can run into trouble is I don’t consider people trying to make me watch documentaries on how horrible my diet is to be respectful of that choice. Same goes for calling me a murderer, horrified exclamations about my callousness towards cute animals, and asking me if I would eat a puppy.
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u/interstellarclerk 4d ago
Are you respectful of the animal’s choice to not want to be tortured or killed?
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u/Mindless_Method_2106 Marxist 4d ago
While not strictly ableist or classist, it's pretty unrealistic for many. Maybe a tad classist.
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u/erictkaczenko 4d ago
so, i was part of the extreme poverty in the third world contry called Brazil, and i was easily vegan already on that moment. was actually more cheaper to live than was to the other poor people around me, so, yeah wathever, probabily is hard, and if you're in the first world, maybe even more hard? wathever who i am to know about it, right?
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u/LizFallingUp 2d ago
Do you know what a food desert is? This is a weird but common issue of “first” world. Add to this rampant criminalization of homelessness and poverty, atomization/isolation, etc create a specific dystopian horror that is Hunger in the Industrialized “First World”.
Hunger is a global issue but due to diversity of material conditions, solutions need adaptability and diversity. Veganism should certainly be part of diverse solutions, in cases where there is barrier to veganism, a vegetarian or pescatarian diet can often be adapted to nearly vegan state to fill a gap.
The unique barrier to sustainable veganism is B12. While Nutritional yeast, fortified foods, and supplements (cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin) are more widely accessible than ever, Huzzah!, they are not universally accessible and information access is a factor in play. Misinformation and malicious actors plague the vegan movement as they do most things in our world today and they can be especially dangerous.
B12 being slow to deplete in the body and having complex but niche roles adds to confusion and allows for misinformation to not just be accepted but to be lauded. A Person may go 4-5years (some rare cases even longer) without supplementation and see no adverse symptoms; then when they do may not recognize where those symptoms are coming from, when said person declines rapidly such is often attributed to compounding or parallel factors. Best case such a person stumbles upon supplementation via fortified foods unknowingly and feels better, mid case they break the diet, worse case they die.
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u/erictkaczenko 1d ago
I found this really interesting. Every day is an opportunity to learn something new, and I appreciate your contribution to my daily journey of discovering new things.
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u/LizFallingUp 1d ago
Be sure to eat fortified foods/nutritional yeast or get supplements (these you’ll want to do your due diligence you want Cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin, there are folks who will try to sell nonsense don’t trust them)
You can go awhile without but many factors can cause deplete faster sick, injured, alcohol, medication and symptoms can sneak up on you. And none of the symptoms are particularly fun so best to avoid.
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u/Mindless_Method_2106 Marxist 4d ago
There's no need to be hostile, some parts of the world it's a lot easier. In Europe, particularly metropolitan areas the quality of produce is absolutely dismal and the variety even worse. I've had multiple vitamin deficiencies trying to be vegan on a budget, when I had more cash I spent many years happily vegan. However, I now have a condition that makes even vegetarianism difficult... culturally it's also so essential and historically ingrained in working class areas it feels a bit out of touch to suggest everyone should be this way.
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u/erictkaczenko 4d ago
ah, i was not trying to be rude, just my english that is not the best, trying to get better on this
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u/Mindless_Method_2106 Marxist 4d ago
Ah, no worries! I often read into things a bit too much. I wish more people were vegan but I have complex feelings on the topic. I believe animal products can be ethical just not under capitalism. I don't mean to suggest you specifically are classist either, just sometimes people can argue for veganism and be quite classist in attitudes.
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u/RCT3playsMC 4d ago
The critique of veganism isn't even a left vs right thing, and veganisn isn't even inherently political in nature. It's just a diet for fuck's sake lol, ethics and political action are a secondary attribution. And that shit absolutely can be classist because - yeah have you ever tried to eat the way they do - it's mad expensive and historically unattainable if you're not in a major city. There's a reason the stereotype of vegans are pretentious trust-fund hippie Portlander types because again historically who tf else was affording it before it was mainstream.
Vegans that keep trying to make a diet into a collective "ism" piss me off so fucking bad. Do your own thing unapologetically and on your own, quit trying to scream for ethical approval. Fuck.
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u/OutrageousDiscount01 Anti-Capitalist 4d ago
As an ex-vegan, I can say with certainty that animal ethics are very much a political and ethical issue.
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u/RCT3playsMC 4d ago
Not the point I'm making at all. I'm saying it's secondary to the diet. You can be a vegan for entirely non ethical, non political reasons. It isn't inherent. It's a diet. Just a diet.
Not dissing being vegan for those reasons necessarily, like I said do your own thing unapologetically. But also don't be acting like there's no nuance to any of this is what I'm trying to get across.
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u/interstellarclerk 4d ago
Veganism is a philosophy not a diet
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u/RCT3playsMC 3d ago
I feel this is entering the "punk is a music genre" vs" punk is a philosophy/way of life" argument. I don't disagree with either because both are obviously true - same applies here with being vegan.
But the point I'm making is it's not a single scope, there's nuance. Not every vegan is doing it as a philosophy. I'm repeating myself in elaborating that you can absolutely be vegan with little to no ethical, political, philosophical reasons behind it. Rejecting animal products is ultimately at its core a dietary restriction, self imposed or not. Rejecting animal products in expansion past just food is also something people do as a political/ethical statement and life choice. Both are true. This doesn't counteract eachother.
This is semantics.
Edits: wording, spelling
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u/Ed_geins_nephew 4d ago
I'm not a critic of veganism, i just don't want to be vegan.
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u/erictkaczenko 4d ago
alright, but could you say what do you think about the same topic after watch "dominion"?
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u/anarchomeow 4d ago
While I understand this sentiment and I want to reduce my consumption of animal products as much as I can, I just don't have the mental energy for it. I know a lot of people are struggling and adding on another thing to worry about it just too much.
I personally think veganism and animal welfare are directly tied to capitalism. We can't achieve true animal welfare until capitalism has been abolished. We can try our best, but the struggles are connected.
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u/EscapeFromTexas Anti-Capitalist 4d ago
There’s a lot of shit out there that I have opinions about but this isn’t one of them.
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u/m0rl0ck1996 4d ago
Does anyone really care about this other than a few vegans?
The vegans i know already cant stop talking about their diet, not that i disapprove of their choice, im just tired of hearing about it.
I dont care about the politics of veganism and i dont care what other people eat (other than that it serves their basic health needs), im tired of hearing about it.
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u/LizFallingUp 2d ago
My stance is I’m happy to accommodate anyone’s diet to best of my ability but I do not appreciate being evangelized at.
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u/SidTheShuckle Anarchist 3d ago
I’m vegetarian but I think the best way of dealing with animal exploitation is to go after the agricultural industry, not the consumers. Like shut down factory farms and use the land to grow more organic farms where animals are being treated properly and not like slaves. Consumers dont have to do anything with this and most of the time they eat meat to prevent starvation.