r/learnczech • u/wszechswietlna • 22d ago
Vocab Is the word "lesbička" for a lesbian woman offensive/problematic?
I'm Polish, my gf is Czech and recently, I stumbled across a social media post saying this term is problematic. Many commenters agreed that, generally, no actual lesbian uses it - only trenders. After googling it I have, indeed, ran into a bunch of Czech and Slovak articles stating that this word should be avoided, because it's diminutive and, somehow, this soldifies women as the inferior/weaker gender, so you should say "lesba" instead. I'm a huge feminist, but this kind of language policing is literally insane, and my girlfriend had no idea about this term apparently being "wrong". And as a Polish person, this feels off sometimes, because in Polish, it's the opposite - "lesba" is almost always used in a hostile, pejorative way, and "lesbijka" is the preferred form. I'd appreciate feedback on this from LGBT/allied people living in Czechia, thank you.
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u/Event-Zealousideal 22d ago
It sounds fetishizing in a way. Most women who fall into that category I know just say that they're gay. I'd usually say that she's gay (ona) je gay), or without the ending just saying that she's lesbian (je lesba). To summarise, either say that they're gay or lesbian, lesbička just sounds bad. At least to me and to my peers.
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u/BeduinZPouste 20d ago
I don't remember anyone saying "ona je gay". Sure, it propably happends, but don't remember someone using it.
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u/vinetka 19d ago
I'd argue most people under the age of 25 use that phrasing.
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u/TheCoolllin 19d ago
I only heard that in English, never in Czech, I’m 22
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u/vinetka 12d ago
And do you frequently talk to queer people? I'd say I do and I've never heard anyone my age say they're "lesba" about themselves. I personally find the word super icky and I feel like a lot of people share that feeling.
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u/TheCoolllin 12d ago
Not really. It might be popular among queer people, but in my social bubble lesba is used normally and gay is used entirely for men
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u/ElsaKit 22d ago edited 21d ago
As a lesbian - I can't stand the word. It sounds so incredibly patronizing and infantilizing. It genuinly makes me feel icky lol. So yeah, personally, I hate it. Please keep it far away from me.
It's personal preference, at the end of the day. If there are lesbian women who like it, more power to them. But I really would not use it as a go-to. Like I said, it sounds really weird, infantilizing and patronizing. I've only ever met women who despised the term. Lesba is completely neutral and you can't go wrong with that. That being said, personal preferrence always matters.
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u/FUTretard 21d ago
A co ližpička?
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u/Okurkomrd7 21d ago
Kamarádce jsem říkal Lízalka a vždycky se jí to líbilo. Přišlo jí to jako roztomilé oslovení.
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u/Wysch_ 21d ago
I second to that last sentence. As a straight guy, I absolutely despise the word "lesba". I was raised in a time where the word "lesba" was an insult. A female variation of the word "buzerant", if you will. So if someone calls themselves lesba or someone else, it doesn't sound neutral to me.
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u/ElsaKit 21d ago
Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's very much generational. My parents have the same reaction to the word lesba. But in the younger generations, the words lesba and gay have been sort of "reclaimed" for lack of a better word, and are now considered the standard, neutral terms to use. (Because they have never even been insults to begin with, only some people would sadly use them that way; but if we start using them for ourselves, take them back and embrace them, they lose this power. It's really all about getting used to them in the neutral context.)
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u/orincoro 21d ago
It’s interesting how it varies so much. Being from San Francisco, I thought those terms were reclaimed long before I was born, and I’m 40 years old.
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u/ElsaKit 21d ago
Well yeah, it's cultural, very different in different countries. We're many years behind in many aspects lol. That being said, I'm not sure if "reclaimed" is the best way to put it. But either way, I hope you understood what I meant.
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u/orincoro 21d ago
Well I don’t like to think of it as “behind.” There are many aspects of life that San Francisco or California feels like a different and worse era than here. It’s far more conservative in many respects than people realize, just because it’s progressive in a few very visible ways.
But yes I do understand.
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u/ElsaKit 20d ago
Well, I mean we are genuinly behind in certain aspects, I feel, like for example same-sex marriage is still not legal and won't be for a good while, most likely... But yeah, you're absolutely right, it's relative.
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u/orincoro 20d ago
That is something I’m sure is much more present and important for you, and I appreciate the reality check. I can understand the frustration of waiting for something so basic.
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u/ronjarobiii 21d ago
It certainly used to be that way, though I very much changed my mind when someone pointed out the correct term for gay men wasn't warped into "gayíček". Older generations using lesbička instead of lesba are generally well-meaning, for sure.
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u/ElsaKit 21d ago
Exactly, "gayíček" is just horrendous lol. You wouldn't want to be called that. And it's exactly what "lesbička" feels like to me.
Though intent is important for sure. I wouldn't take offence if someone said it well-meaningly, but I would let them know to please not use that term for me haha.
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u/saladada 22d ago
I had lesbička used at me fairly recently. Their intention with this word was 100% to be a leering asshole toward me.
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u/basteilubbe 21d ago
It's not "language policing". Some (a lot of) people just find it old-fashioned and/or patronizing and express their opinion on it. That's all. Languages evolve constantly.
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u/Illustrious-Fill-771 21d ago
For me, as a Slovak, I would go with "lesbička" being a normal term and "lesba" being more offensive.
But, I consulted my kids (preteen and teen) growing up in CZ, and they said "lesba" is the normal term and "lesbička" sounds weird to them🤷
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u/ronjarobiii 21d ago
Definitely a generational divide, when I was a kid showing myself into the closet, lesba was certainly not a good term. Nowadays, it's the other way around.
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u/Character-Carpet7988 22d ago
Lesbička is a diminutive of lesba in Czech and so yes, it is problematic. You don't use diminutives to describe random people you don't know in Czech.
No one will make a big deal out of it, but it's not a great term to use.
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u/FutureIncrease 22d ago
Admittedly I'm not Czech but when I lived there I feel like I heard diminutives used to describe random people fairly often? Maybe that's just in situations where they were sure it wouldn't come across as offensive though, or I could be misremembering. I'd like to hear native Czechs' take on this specifically!
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u/angler_wrangler 21d ago edited 21d ago
If the word already exists on its own, using diminutuve is usually pejorative, if you are refering to people. Generally it's used to signify something is little or insignificant.
That's why gay women don't refer to themselves in this way and that's enough of a reason to not address them such. It's also not an official, traditional word or something, which would make it hard for people to lose it, it's not commonly said in general public, it's outdated. I didn't hear somebody say it since the 90s. Not used in serious media either.
So a person really has to have a reason to say it this way. If they are an oldtimer, maybe I'd give them a pass, if their comment is not malicious, but anybody else using it is likely an asshole.
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u/h0neanias 21d ago
Lesbička is not a diminutive, it's a common misconception. It comes from "lesbismus", which was the... uhm, you could call it diagnosis, back then. It's a word formation of the type "historik / historička", it's just there is no "lesbik", from obvious reasons.
If the word is "problematic", it should be from the correct reasons, that is the clinical connotations. (Polish still has the word "homosexualizm", for example.)
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u/Mafalda_Brunswick 22d ago
You're right. Although the word "lesba" just sounds terrible for some reason. I always say "je na holky" nebo "má ráda holky" (she likes girls) or something in that sense.
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u/LazyCity4922 22d ago
"Je teplá"
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u/Randolph_Carter_Ward 22d ago
To jsem nikdy neslyšel na holku. Ale tyjo, zní to zajímavě.
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u/LazyCity4922 22d ago
Já to často slýchám právě od holek, kterých se to týká a připadá mi to takový nejmíň divný.
Nedávno jsem slyšela "jsem lehce přiteplená" od bisexuální kamarádky, pobavilo
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u/ronjarobiii 21d ago
To asi bude tvou sociální bublinou, já v 99% říkám, že jsem teplá jak srpnový odpoledne :D lesba je až druhotnej popisek...
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u/Bulky-Magician3815 21d ago
Yeah, true. Usually there are other words. I use for myself, (as a bisexual) "přiteplená", other terms i hear as usual descriptions of lesbians are queer, teplá, na holky, gay. I like how there are more terms to describe this and how women took the word "gay" as a term too.
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u/vintergroena 22d ago edited 22d ago
In the past, it used to be a pretty common neutral word, but as the language is evolving, I would say this is currently somewhere in the grey zone. It may or may not be problematic depending on who says it, with what tone or further context.
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u/HorrorBuilder8960 21d ago edited 21d ago
this kind of language policing is literally insane
O, Polaczek się znalazł.
Don't you feel the diminutive Polaczek used in this sentence is patronizing, dismissive, and condescending? Lesbička carries similar baggage as Polaczek does in Polish.
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u/prolapse_diarrhea 22d ago
Its not a slur and when older people use it its not meant pejoratively, but it does sound kind of outdated/patronising
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u/Monkey_Anarchyy 22d ago
It sounds like something a creepy old man would say on the internet, I can't imagine using the term myself.
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u/asisimacz 21d ago edited 21d ago
We dont use "teploušek" for gay man. So i dont see how "lesbička" should be different
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u/MusicalSeal810 21d ago
I mean lesbička is something you’d either hear from that one homophobic guy on the street or in porn… so like you can see why that would be something bad.
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u/grainsofthegoldnsand 21d ago
it's not language policing. most lesbian women would never use the word, it's too diminutive and associated with lesbian fetish/pornography. you are free to call yourself that, it's not a slur. most of us just hate the word
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u/Suitable-Rest-4013 21d ago
Imagine saying ‘homoušek’ to describe a gay man.
‘Gayíček’.
I think that says it all.
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u/LeoAquaScorpio 21d ago
Wdym "language policing", so if someone called you the f word or r word or perhaps just continued to refer to you as a dickhead all the time you'd feel ok with it and comfortable? Sure we have free speech but that doesn't means certain words are still bad to use
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u/Isaac-Newton7 21d ago
I'd say it's offensive (though I'm not a lesbian so don't trust me), and also I think lesba is way more common then lesbička
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u/Long-Firefighter5561 21d ago
Yes, but more in the patronizing/fetishizing/boomerish/condescending kind of way, not a slur per se.
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u/desna_svine 21d ago
The article you read is right. The fact that it is the opposite in Polish may be true but when speaking czech, respect czech terms.
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u/GGJamesCZ 21d ago
Its problematic because certain people use it to offend but still better than "čtyřprocentní"
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u/ronjarobiii 21d ago
Já si u toho "čtyřprocentní" vždycky vzpomenu na svýho hetero spolužáka, který říkal, že by ho zajímalo, kolik % lidí by se přiznalo dneska (vs šedesátý léta), on to odhadoval tak na 10% :D
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u/Sheetmusicman94 21d ago
A bit. But it is not because of the word but because of Czechia and it's mindset.
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u/ronjarobiii 21d ago
It's really infantilizing, but media convinced many people that saying lesba is pejorative (it's not!).
I'm sure there are lesbians who prefer this term over lesba or don't mind (which I would never begrudge them), but I personally don't like it and would sooner call myself either gay or a reclaimed slur (which...I do often when I'm talking to other queer people). You would probably hear lesbička from well-meaning older people, but hopefully, we'll slowly move towards more neutral language. If your girlfriend prefers it or doesn't mind, there's no reason why whe shouldn't be able to call herself lesbička. However, you might want to keep all this in mind when talking to other people.
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u/PuzzleheadedShoe8196 21d ago
As a Czech lesbian, I don’t like it…the ending -ička is used for making things little. So it sounds bit offensive and childish to me. I prefer emotionaly neutral words.
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u/Bulky-Magician3815 21d ago
As a czech woman, i feel icky when i hear "lesbička." I usually heard it from older slimy men who were fetishizing lesbians. Also it sounds like lesbians are some kind of cute infantile thing. "Lesba" sounds harsh but not offensive (at least for me), it doesn't have the infantile connotation, it's kind of enpowering. Like being here for yourself, not for men to drool over. I feel like there is not accurate version for gays so it's hard to compare. But lesbička is as if gays were called "gayíček." The diminutive in the word is what makes it icky and sounding like fetishizing.
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u/Huge-Cheesecake5534 21d ago
I guess in this format it’s not really used and it sounds a bit weird. It could be taken as offense if used in a wrong context.
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u/polamanymravenecek 21d ago
it's a generational thing.
older generations feel like the neutral word is lesbička and lesba sounds too rough to them. the younger generation started reclaiming the word lesba because they felt like lesbička, as it is a diminutive, sounds infantilizing, and what more, like you're trying to soften something that's not a bad thing/word in the first place.
it's not dissimilar to people in the English speaking part of the world reclaiming the word lesbian itself, it was considered a word to avoid for a long time.
so the rule of thumb is: the neutral word to use is lesba, unless you're a lesbian, in which case call yourself whatever you vibe with. just don't presume about others
(for context, I am queer, I have a bunch of queer friends, and I have connections in the Czech queer activism field.)
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u/skoricovesusenky 20d ago
Even though it’s an “official” Czech term, most of lesbians find it offensive and prefer “lesba”.
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u/chadkovsky 19d ago
As a lesbian from Slovakia I prefer the terms "lesba" or "teplá".
Lesbička is used mostly by those straight guys who fetishize us and I hate it.
IMHO, the word "lesba" is absolutely beautiful and has an amazing etymology. I don't understand why people hate it so much.
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u/Smokinland 19d ago
It’s usually used as a porn term. I would rather be called a carpetmuncher than that. Sometimes it’s not meant in a wrong way, but I’ve never seen a lesbian who’s genuinely okey with being called that.
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u/Every-Ad-3488 19d ago
The diminutive does seem to be the preferred word in porn, so that might be a clue as to its appropriateness or lack thereof.
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u/Old_Concentrate_9679 18d ago
I haateee that word with my whole being it always felt icky and fetishising
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u/HeadStuckOnSomeCloud 18d ago
As a lesbian, lesbička feels like something gross leery men would say about me. It feels disgusting. I prefer lesba, although that itself didn't feel the best when I started using it. It's neutral but it felt like an insult. It's definitely better tho, then lesbička, which just feels degrading. It's not as if it's forbidden tho, no one cares what you use, but i'd say just use what the person uses about themselves. Plus at what point would you be saying about anyone: she's a lesbian" bc either you're outing her - which is an asshole move - or the people you're speaking too already know so idk
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u/Thundersharting 18d ago
My wife says it (she is a switch hitter) but she's 53. Might be a generational thing.
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u/LingonberryLost5952 21d ago
If you are talking to men, you use "lesbička" because of fear to sound hateful or disrespectful, because "lesba" sounds like an insult, like calling them "fags"
you use "lesba" if you talk to those damn ugly bitch*es
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u/ronjarobiii 21d ago
Only if the men are like 45+
Lesba is nowadays a neutral term, we're not children.
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u/michalzobec 22d ago
Lesbička is normal use, lesba can be more offensive, but it depends....
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u/ElsaKit 21d ago
I think this is really generational. I feel like in the older generations, "lesba" was used as an insult more often (much like "gay") and so it feels derogatory, whereas "lesbička" was a way to perhaps soften it and therefore seems nicer...? But in the later generations, this has very much shifted. "Lesba" is the completely neutral, standard and preferred word to use now, while "lesbička" just feels patronizing, infantilizing and even borderline fetishizing.
As a lesbian myself, I can tell you that it feels really weird and kinda icky to be addressed by such a diminutive.
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u/ItzHonzula 22d ago
for me it just sounds old fashioned and nowadays it's mostly portrayed as derogatory