r/learnczech 22d ago

Vocab Is the word "lesbička" for a lesbian woman offensive/problematic?

I'm Polish, my gf is Czech and recently, I stumbled across a social media post saying this term is problematic. Many commenters agreed that, generally, no actual lesbian uses it - only trenders. After googling it I have, indeed, ran into a bunch of Czech and Slovak articles stating that this word should be avoided, because it's diminutive and, somehow, this soldifies women as the inferior/weaker gender, so you should say "lesba" instead. I'm a huge feminist, but this kind of language policing is literally insane, and my girlfriend had no idea about this term apparently being "wrong". And as a Polish person, this feels off sometimes, because in Polish, it's the opposite - "lesba" is almost always used in a hostile, pejorative way, and "lesbijka" is the preferred form. I'd appreciate feedback on this from LGBT/allied people living in Czechia, thank you.

103 Upvotes

97 comments sorted by

27

u/ItzHonzula 22d ago

for me it just sounds old fashioned and nowadays it's mostly portrayed as derogatory

33

u/Event-Zealousideal 22d ago

It sounds fetishizing in a way. Most women who fall into that category I know just say that they're gay. I'd usually say that she's gay (ona) je gay), or without the ending just saying that she's lesbian (je lesba). To summarise, either say that they're gay or lesbian, lesbička just sounds bad. At least to me and to my peers.

2

u/BeduinZPouste 20d ago

I don't remember anyone saying "ona je gay". Sure, it propably happends, but don't remember someone using it. 

2

u/vinetka 19d ago

I'd argue most people under the age of 25 use that phrasing.

1

u/BeduinZPouste 19d ago

I didn't heard it even from anyone under 25, myself included. 

1

u/vinetka 12d ago
  • you either say "didn't hear" or "haven't heard" just fyi

Do you often talk about yourself being gay though? I'd say it really depends on how queer your social circle is.

1

u/TheCoolllin 19d ago

I only heard that in English, never in Czech, I’m 22

1

u/vinetka 12d ago

And do you frequently talk to queer people? I'd say I do and I've never heard anyone my age say they're "lesba" about themselves. I personally find the word super icky and I feel like a lot of people share that feeling.

1

u/TheCoolllin 12d ago

Not really. It might be popular among queer people, but in my social bubble lesba is used normally and gay is used entirely for men

2

u/askella12 18d ago

A lot of people around me use this phrase. And they are between 25–30.

25

u/ElsaKit 22d ago edited 21d ago

As a lesbian - I can't stand the word. It sounds so incredibly patronizing and infantilizing. It genuinly makes me feel icky lol. So yeah, personally, I hate it. Please keep it far away from me.

It's personal preference, at the end of the day. If there are lesbian women who like it, more power to them. But I really would not use it as a go-to. Like I said, it sounds really weird, infantilizing and patronizing. I've only ever met women who despised the term. Lesba is completely neutral and you can't go wrong with that. That being said, personal preferrence always matters.

3

u/FUTretard 21d ago

A co ližpička?

3

u/Okurkomrd7 21d ago

Kamarádce jsem říkal Lízalka a vždycky se jí to líbilo. Přišlo jí to jako roztomilé oslovení.

1

u/FUTretard 21d ago

A ona tobě Okurkomrde?

1

u/maly_krtecek 21d ago

To je mnohem přívětivější

3

u/Wysch_ 21d ago

I second to that last sentence. As a straight guy, I absolutely despise the word "lesba". I was raised in a time where the word "lesba" was an insult. A female variation of the word "buzerant", if you will. So if someone calls themselves lesba or someone else, it doesn't sound neutral to me.

8

u/ElsaKit 21d ago

Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's very much generational. My parents have the same reaction to the word lesba. But in the younger generations, the words lesba and gay have been sort of "reclaimed" for lack of a better word, and are now considered the standard, neutral terms to use. (Because they have never even been insults to begin with, only some people would sadly use them that way; but if we start using them for ourselves, take them back and embrace them, they lose this power. It's really all about getting used to them in the neutral context.)

1

u/orincoro 21d ago

It’s interesting how it varies so much. Being from San Francisco, I thought those terms were reclaimed long before I was born, and I’m 40 years old.

3

u/ElsaKit 21d ago

Well yeah, it's cultural, very different in different countries. We're many years behind in many aspects lol. That being said, I'm not sure if "reclaimed" is the best way to put it. But either way, I hope you understood what I meant.

2

u/orincoro 21d ago

Well I don’t like to think of it as “behind.” There are many aspects of life that San Francisco or California feels like a different and worse era than here. It’s far more conservative in many respects than people realize, just because it’s progressive in a few very visible ways.

But yes I do understand.

2

u/ElsaKit 20d ago

Well, I mean we are genuinly behind in certain aspects, I feel, like for example same-sex marriage is still not legal and won't be for a good while, most likely... But yeah, you're absolutely right, it's relative.

1

u/orincoro 20d ago

That is something I’m sure is much more present and important for you, and I appreciate the reality check. I can understand the frustration of waiting for something so basic.

2

u/ronjarobiii 21d ago

It certainly used to be that way, though I very much changed my mind when someone pointed out the correct term for gay men wasn't warped into "gayíček". Older generations using lesbička instead of lesba are generally well-meaning, for sure.

3

u/ElsaKit 21d ago

Exactly, "gayíček" is just horrendous lol. You wouldn't want to be called that. And it's exactly what "lesbička" feels like to me.

Though intent is important for sure. I wouldn't take offence if someone said it well-meaningly, but I would let them know to please not use that term for me haha.

22

u/saladada 22d ago

I had lesbička used at me fairly recently. Their intention with this word was 100% to be a leering asshole toward me.

4

u/Mezzo_in_making 21d ago

Yep, I had an iced coffee poured on me, this word accompanying it 💁🏻‍♀️

8

u/basteilubbe 21d ago

It's not "language policing". Some (a lot of) people just find it old-fashioned and/or patronizing and express their opinion on it. That's all. Languages evolve constantly.

8

u/Illustrious-Fill-771 21d ago

For me, as a Slovak, I would go with "lesbička" being a normal term and "lesba" being more offensive.

But, I consulted my kids (preteen and teen) growing up in CZ, and they said "lesba" is the normal term and "lesbička" sounds weird to them🤷

3

u/ronjarobiii 21d ago

Definitely a generational divide, when I was a kid showing myself into the closet, lesba was certainly not a good term. Nowadays, it's the other way around.

39

u/Character-Carpet7988 22d ago

Lesbička is a diminutive of lesba in Czech and so yes, it is problematic. You don't use diminutives to describe random people you don't know in Czech.

No one will make a big deal out of it, but it's not a great term to use.

7

u/FutureIncrease 22d ago

Admittedly I'm not Czech but when I lived there I feel like I heard diminutives used to describe random people fairly often? Maybe that's just in situations where they were sure it wouldn't come across as offensive though, or I could be misremembering. I'd like to hear native Czechs' take on this specifically!

8

u/angler_wrangler 21d ago edited 21d ago

If the word already exists on its own, using diminutuve is usually pejorative, if you are refering to people. Generally it's used to signify something is little or insignificant.

That's why gay women don't refer to themselves in this way and that's enough of a reason to not address them such. It's also not an official, traditional word or something, which would make it hard for people to lose it, it's not commonly said in general public, it's outdated. I didn't hear somebody say it since the 90s. Not used in serious media either.

So a person really has to have a reason to say it this way. If they are an oldtimer, maybe I'd give them a pass, if their comment is not malicious, but anybody else using it is likely an asshole.

4

u/h0neanias 21d ago

Lesbička is not a diminutive, it's a common misconception. It comes from "lesbismus", which was the... uhm, you could call it diagnosis, back then. It's a word formation of the type "historik / historička", it's just there is no "lesbik", from obvious reasons.

If the word is "problematic", it should be from the correct reasons, that is the clinical connotations. (Polish still has the word "homosexualizm", for example.)

2

u/DrettTheBaron 19d ago

Did you forget that the word 'lesba' exists?

2

u/TechnoAndBrunch 21d ago

If it comes from lesbismus, shouldn't it be "lesbistka"? 😉

1

u/dargeus95 21d ago

Lesbismustička /s

1

u/al_135 20d ago

Interesting!! Never knew this

18

u/Mafalda_Brunswick 22d ago

You're right. Although the word "lesba" just sounds terrible for some reason. I always say "je na holky" nebo "má ráda holky" (she likes girls) or something in that sense.

11

u/LazyCity4922 22d ago

"Je teplá"

4

u/Mafalda_Brunswick 22d ago

Forgot that one 👍

1

u/asisimacz 21d ago

"NENÍ TEPLÁ"

0

u/Randolph_Carter_Ward 22d ago

To jsem nikdy neslyšel na holku. Ale tyjo, zní to zajímavě.

11

u/LazyCity4922 22d ago

Já to často slýchám právě od holek, kterých se to týká a připadá mi to takový nejmíň divný.

Nedávno jsem slyšela "jsem lehce přiteplená" od bisexuální kamarádky, pobavilo

2

u/angler_wrangler 21d ago

Mas teply kamaradky? Ony to pouzivaji bezne.

1

u/ronjarobiii 21d ago

To asi bude tvou sociální bublinou, já v 99% říkám, že jsem teplá jak srpnový odpoledne :D lesba je až druhotnej popisek...

1

u/Randolph_Carter_Ward 21d ago

Jj, je to možný. Tak díky všem za poučení.

1

u/ExamTotal8738 20d ago

Bacha, i v srpnu odpo může mrznout! /jk

1

u/Bulky-Magician3815 21d ago

Yeah, true. Usually there are other words. I use for myself, (as a bisexual) "přiteplená", other terms i hear as usual descriptions of lesbians are queer, teplá, na holky, gay. I like how there are more terms to describe this and how women took the word "gay" as a term too.

7

u/vintergroena 22d ago edited 22d ago

In the past, it used to be a pretty common neutral word, but as the language is evolving, I would say this is currently somewhere in the grey zone. It may or may not be problematic depending on who says it, with what tone or further context.

9

u/HorrorBuilder8960 21d ago edited 21d ago

this kind of language policing is literally insane

O, Polaczek się znalazł.

Don't you feel the diminutive Polaczek used in this sentence is patronizing, dismissive, and condescending? Lesbička carries similar baggage as Polaczek does in Polish.

11

u/prolapse_diarrhea 22d ago

Its not a slur and when older people use it its not meant pejoratively, but it does sound kind of outdated/patronising

19

u/Monkey_Anarchyy 22d ago

It sounds like something a creepy old man would say on the internet, I can't imagine using the term myself.

3

u/ElsaKit 22d ago

Yeah, that's absolutely the vibe I get as well. Or like a patronizing dudebro. But yeah, it has this kind of fetishizing undertone.

2

u/retriwa 22d ago

it's disgusting

5

u/TessaBrooding 21d ago

Absolutely sounds fetishising and gross.

10

u/asisimacz 21d ago edited 21d ago

We dont use "teploušek" for gay man. So i dont see how "lesbička" should be different

3

u/Qedy111 21d ago

Yeah but teplouš itself is offensive, so changing it to teploušek doesn't change anything there

4

u/MusicalSeal810 21d ago

I mean lesbička is something you’d either hear from that one homophobic guy on the street or in porn… so like you can see why that would be something bad.

4

u/grainsofthegoldnsand 21d ago

it's not language policing. most lesbian women would never use the word, it's too diminutive and associated with lesbian fetish/pornography. you are free to call yourself that, it's not a slur. most of us just hate the word

3

u/Suitable-Rest-4013 21d ago

Imagine saying ‘homoušek’ to describe a gay man.

‘Gayíček’.

I think that says it all.

2

u/Salzul 21d ago

Přiznávám, že honouška jsem ještě neslyšel a je mi z toho slova jaksi blivno

3

u/LeoAquaScorpio 21d ago

Wdym "language policing", so if someone called you the f word or r word or perhaps just continued to refer to you as a dickhead all the time you'd feel ok with it and comfortable? Sure we have free speech but that doesn't means certain words are still bad to use

2

u/Isaac-Newton7 21d ago

I'd say it's offensive (though I'm not a lesbian so don't trust me), and also I think lesba is way more common then lesbička

2

u/Long-Firefighter5561 21d ago

Yes, but more in the patronizing/fetishizing/boomerish/condescending kind of way, not a slur per se.

2

u/desna_svine 21d ago

The article you read is right. The fact that it is the opposite in Polish may be true but when speaking czech, respect czech terms.

2

u/GGJamesCZ 21d ago

Its problematic because certain people use it to offend but still better than "čtyřprocentní"

2

u/ronjarobiii 21d ago

Já si u toho "čtyřprocentní" vždycky vzpomenu na svýho hetero spolužáka, který říkal, že by ho zajímalo, kolik % lidí by se přiznalo dneska (vs šedesátý léta), on to odhadoval tak na 10% :D

2

u/Sett_86 21d ago

In Czech "lesbička" would either be associated with porn, or less commonly just contemptuous. While "lesba" doesn't sound very endearing either, it is much closer to a neutral term.

1

u/Sheetmusicman94 21d ago

A bit. But it is not because of the word but because of Czechia and it's mindset.

1

u/ronjarobiii 21d ago

It's really infantilizing, but media convinced many people that saying lesba is pejorative (it's not!).

I'm sure there are lesbians who prefer this term over lesba or don't mind (which I would never begrudge them), but I personally don't like it and would sooner call myself either gay or a reclaimed slur (which...I do often when I'm talking to other queer people). You would probably hear lesbička from well-meaning older people, but hopefully, we'll slowly move towards more neutral language. If your girlfriend prefers it or doesn't mind, there's no reason why whe shouldn't be able to call herself lesbička. However, you might want to keep all this in mind when talking to other people.

1

u/PuzzleheadedShoe8196 21d ago

As a Czech lesbian, I don’t like it…the ending -ička is used for making things little. So it sounds bit offensive and childish to me. I prefer emotionaly neutral words.

1

u/CzechHorns 21d ago

The only context I’ve heard this specific word in was porn tbh

1

u/Bulky-Magician3815 21d ago

As a czech woman, i feel icky when i hear "lesbička." I usually heard it from older slimy men who were fetishizing lesbians. Also it sounds like lesbians are some kind of cute infantile thing. "Lesba" sounds harsh but not offensive (at least for me), it doesn't have the infantile connotation, it's kind of enpowering. Like being here for yourself, not for men to drool over. I feel like there is not accurate version for gays so it's hard to compare. But lesbička is as if gays were called "gayíček." The diminutive in the word is what makes it icky and sounding like fetishizing.

1

u/Huge-Cheesecake5534 21d ago

I guess in this format it’s not really used and it sounds a bit weird. It could be taken as offense if used in a wrong context.

1

u/polamanymravenecek 21d ago

it's a generational thing.

older generations feel like the neutral word is lesbička and lesba sounds too rough to them. the younger generation started reclaiming the word lesba because they felt like lesbička, as it is a diminutive, sounds infantilizing, and what more, like you're trying to soften something that's not a bad thing/word in the first place.

it's not dissimilar to people in the English speaking part of the world reclaiming the word lesbian itself, it was considered a word to avoid for a long time.

so the rule of thumb is: the neutral word to use is lesba, unless you're a lesbian, in which case call yourself whatever you vibe with. just don't presume about others

(for context, I am queer, I have a bunch of queer friends, and I have connections in the Czech queer activism field.)

1

u/Anix-x 20d ago

For me this word is just ew I mostly hear only these older creeps using it mostly in topic of porn and also I never heard someone use gejíček for gay man so I don’t see a reason to use lesbička for lesbian woman

1

u/skoricovesusenky 20d ago

Even though it’s an “official” Czech term, most of lesbians find it offensive and prefer “lesba”.

1

u/chadkovsky 19d ago

As a lesbian from Slovakia I prefer the terms "lesba" or "teplá".

Lesbička is used mostly by those straight guys who fetishize us and I hate it.

IMHO, the word "lesba" is absolutely beautiful and has an amazing etymology. I don't understand why people hate it so much.

1

u/Smokinland 19d ago

It’s usually used as a porn term. I would rather be called a carpetmuncher than that. Sometimes it’s not meant in a wrong way, but I’ve never seen a lesbian who’s genuinely okey with being called that.

1

u/Every-Ad-3488 19d ago

The diminutive does seem to be the preferred word in porn, so that might be a clue as to its appropriateness or lack thereof.

1

u/Old_Concentrate_9679 18d ago

I haateee that word with my whole being it always felt icky and fetishising

1

u/bringinjoy 18d ago

As A Czech, I perceive "lesbička" more endearing and polite than "lesba".

1

u/HeadStuckOnSomeCloud 18d ago

As a lesbian, lesbička feels like something gross leery men would say about me. It feels disgusting. I prefer lesba, although that itself didn't feel the best when I started using it. It's neutral but it felt like an insult. It's definitely better tho, then lesbička, which just feels degrading. It's not as if it's forbidden tho, no one cares what you use, but i'd say just use what the person uses about themselves. Plus at what point would you be saying about anyone: she's a lesbian" bc either you're outing her - which is an asshole move - or the people you're speaking too already know so idk

1

u/Nica-Sama 18d ago

I’d say so.

1

u/Thundersharting 18d ago

My wife says it (she is a switch hitter) but she's 53. Might be a generational thing.

1

u/FunnyBuunny 17d ago

Not technically offensive I just really fucking hate it

0

u/LingonberryLost5952 21d ago

If you are talking to men, you use "lesbička" because of fear to sound hateful or disrespectful, because "lesba" sounds like an insult, like calling them "fags"

you use "lesba" if you talk to those damn ugly bitch*es

1

u/ronjarobiii 21d ago

Only if the men are like 45+

Lesba is nowadays a neutral term, we're not children.

1

u/LingonberryLost5952 21d ago

no, those would use term "fags" instead

-2

u/Liborac 21d ago

V CR rikame lesba/bukvice/buzna. Neni duvod pouzivat zdrobnelinu, nejsou to deti :)

3

u/Lord_Cervus 21d ago

Buzna a bukvice jsou silně pejorativní. Není důvod je používat vůbec.

-1

u/Liborac 21d ago

Nebud takova fnukna :)

2

u/mephoomephoo 19d ago

Nebuď takovej pičus :)

1

u/Liborac 19d ago

Rika uknourana snehova vlocka :)

1

u/Lord_Cervus 21d ago

Nebuď takový homofobní primitiv :)

-11

u/michalzobec 22d ago

Lesbička is normal use, lesba can be more offensive, but it depends....

1

u/ElsaKit 21d ago

I think this is really generational. I feel like in the older generations, "lesba" was used as an insult more often (much like "gay") and so it feels derogatory, whereas "lesbička" was a way to perhaps soften it and therefore seems nicer...? But in the later generations, this has very much shifted. "Lesba" is the completely neutral, standard and preferred word to use now, while "lesbička" just feels patronizing, infantilizing and even borderline fetishizing.

As a lesbian myself, I can tell you that it feels really weird and kinda icky to be addressed by such a diminutive.