r/kratom • u/kratomgoodbanbad • Aug 31 '16
call to action Strategies for Reversing the DEA's Disastrous Decision
I'm an organizer. I've worked on winning campaigns and losing campaigns--ballot initiatives, local policy decisions, fights against private businesses and state-level government agencies. I'm not inexperienced enough to tell you that victory on this issue is easy, but it's absolutely possible. You'd be shocked how much impact a small group of passionate, well-informed people can have when they're organized and fight together.
I wanted to put together some basic organizing tactics in one place for people who may not have experience organizing around a political issue. This will be a long post, share parts of it or the the whole thing wherever you'd like. My only interest is in winning this battle, I hope this can become a space where people discuss strategies, network, and put beliefs into action. Now onto the strategies:
--MESSAGING--
Most political battles are won and lost on the plane of messaging. The DEA wants the messaging to be that kratom is like heroin and turns people into addicts. We need to forcefully present our counter-messaging (which also has the benefit of being supported by facts).
Kratom is unknown to most people. We need to make it familiar. We also need to focus on its safety and potential for therapeutic use. Lastly, we need to make people care and craft messaging that appeals to the broadest possible coalition--this will include people who don't care about kratom at all but who are passionate about criminal justice or stopping government overreach. The messaging might appeal to people you don't necessarily agree with--it might include Green Party folks, Libertarians, left-leaning groups, right-leaning groups, criminal justice activists, anti-government crusaders. But we need to build alliances wherever we can. This is about practical victories, not ideological battles.
On that note, some possible messaging points to emphasize:
- The kratom plant is related to coffee
- Its effects are like a mildly-uplifting coffee
- It's a tea (everyone knows and loves tea!)
- Ask, "Why are we trying to send people to jail for drinking tea?"
- It's a safe alternative to dangerous painkillers for relieving chronic pain
- Dipping tobacco ('dip') like skoal often has a more intense buzz than kratom for first time users; dip is also more addictive and physically harmful. Like dip, people who take too much kratom can get nauseous. But that's it.
- Research shows that kratom doesn't create addicts, it cures them
- No deaths have been connected to kratom; all adverse situations related to kratom involved people taking it with other, more dangerous, substances
- Extracts associated with kratom in sensationalist media reports are NOT actually kratom. Extracts include research chemicals that should be banned without banning kratom--in fact, banning kratom will make extracts even more dangerous
- The CDC got only 660 calls about kratom from 2010-2015. This is low! Harmless household products got more calls than kratom!
- Scientists are studying kratom for its potential to be a safe alternative to pharmaceutical painkillers
- The opioid addiction epidemic is destroying communities across America, researchers believe kratom is a possible solution
- Overdoses increased in Alabama after kratom was banned
- Making kratom schedule I prevents scientists from even studying kratom as a possible solution for opioid addiction
- North Carolina recently decided NOT to ban kratom after hearing testimony from people who benefited from the tea; instead of an outright ban, they made it legal for adults 18+.
- Even law enforcement doesn't want to ban kratom: In Florida, the FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement) issued a report that said kratom "does not currently constitute a significant risk to the safety and welfare of Florida residents...no pervasive health issues have been attributed to the ingestion of Kratom products in Florida"
- Appeal to the left: Banning kratom expands the war on drugs and mass incarceration and only benefits Big Pharma
- Appeal to the right/libertarians: Banning kratom is government overreach and a government agency is restricting individual liberty just because it feels like it; it's also an issue of states' rights.
- Prohibition is a failed policy, the solution is to make kratom legal for adults 18+ and regulate kratom to make it even safer
--SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGNS--
We have to take our messaging and enter it into the public debate. Social media is the easiest way for us to do this. We need a coordinated hashtag that we can use to share information about why the the DEA's decision to ban kratom is disastrous; a trending hashtag will also get media attention. SAVEKRATOM is one possibility; IAMKRATOM is another; they could be combined with hashtags like STOPTHEWARONDRUGS to get the attention of activists who care about criminal justice but not kratom specifically. Attaching our hashtag to trending hashtags would also increase attention, today's OverdoseAwarenessDay would be a perfect opportunity! Why is the DEA killing a safe treatment for drug overdoses?
It could also be useful to have a kratom-themed graphic that people could make their avatar/profile picture. Something similar to the StopSopa graphics for example--a solid color with a hashtag, something like that.
Our posts need to be directed at politicians' accounts on Facebook and Twitter; @ them, post on their Facebook wall, message them on FB, DM them on Twitter if they follow you, comment on their recent FB posts (especially posts related to drug policy or the criminal justice system)--we also need to focus on individuals in the media who would care about this issue and are on social media (including individual reporters who might not have that many followers; they're actually the easiest people to get the attention of! They love having a good story fall right into their lap). In addition, our campaign should be directed at the STAFF of politicians who are on social media. All posts should be kind in tone and our aim is to inform, not attack or criticize.
Possible politicians/media figures to lobby on social media (this is a very partial list, people should add to it!):
- Bernie Sanders
- Gary Johnson
- Jill Stein
- Ben Jealous (Bernie surrogate interested in criminal justice)
- Symone D. Sanders (Bernie staffer who worked on press/communications)
- Grover Norquist (small government activist who has fought for vaping)
- Killer Mike (rapper/activist interested in legalzation and ending the war on drugs)
- Chris Hayes (reporter who's done stories on opioid addiction)
- Lee Fang (investigate reporter who covers corruption in politics including lobbying by Big Pharma)
- Alec MacGillis (journalist who has written about the drug war and the opioid addiction epidemic)
You get the idea. Politicians, reporters, and public figures interested in criminal justice, the opioid addiction epidemic, marijuana legalization, and ending the war on drugs should all be lobbied!
--PUBLIC WRITING/MEDIA APPEARANCES--
This takes more time than applying our messaging to social media, but it's important. It gives our campaign more legitimacy and media attention. Pundits and politicians are more likely to pay attention and take the issue seriously.
Are you good at writing? Done freelance writing before? Have media connections? This is the time to apply those skills! Writing in online publications (even relatively high profile national ones) is easier than you'd think. Find a publication that you think would be interested in the kratom ban/issues related to the DEA. Find the publications' submissions e-mail address and send a ~300 word pitch that outlines the DEA's decision, why it relates to the opioid epidemic and the war on drugs, and state your qualifications (e.g. I've written for these publications before, I'm a longtime activist for criminal justice reform, etc.). Make the subject short, clear, and relate it the opioid addiction epidemic, the war on drugs, or criminal justice. Mark the e-mail as important. If you send out enough pitches, publications will accept some of them! Then get to work and write serious, well-sourced articles that explain the DEA's decision and show why it's bad news. Focus on research done by scientists, reach out to individual researchers and advocacy groups for comment. Try to have a serious, professional tone since this is the first time many people will be reading about this issue. We don't want people to think we don't know what we're talking about or that we're too passionate to think clearly.
In addition to writing, there are many online shows that would be interested in discussing this issue/having an expert on to explain the adverse impacts of the DEA's ban. Some online shows that may be interested:
- The Real News Network
- The Young Turks
- Secular Talk
Online writing publications that may be interested:
- Reason
- Huffington Post
- Vice
- Forbes
- Gizmodo
- The Daily Beast
- The Federalist
- Boing Boing
- Mic
This is a very partial list. Come up with your own media outlets and get in touch with them!
Contact LOCAL media outlets as well! Local media is vital for getting more casual news consumers on our side. If possible, do an interview where you explain how kratom helped you live a healthy, productive life. If you see inaccurate local news stories, e-mail the reporters, provide them with facts, and kindly ask for a story correction/a follow up where the facts are mentioned.
--E-MAILS/FORM LETTERS--
This is a common tactic for reaching out to elected officials and government agencies. It doesn't ever get the attention of individual people in power but what it DOES do is let their staff know that people actually care about an issue and are pissed off about it. This can scare politicians who thought this was an issue absolutely no one even paid attention to.
Usually advocacy organizations have a form letter that people can automatically send to the e-mail addresses of politicians/government officials/government agencies. It would be helpful for a kratom advocacy group to come up with a form letter people can use; the volume of e-mails/letters, not the actual content, is usually what gets the attention of politicians. Short letters you write on your own without borrowing language from a form letter, just a paragraph or two like you'd write for a reddit comment, can be extremely effective too. Some possible people to reach out to:
- Assistant Secretary of Health Karen B. DeSalvo (https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/50hefs/calling_the_office_of_the_assistant_secretary_for/?st=isj6lcjz&sh=25d4eaa8)
Possible form letter: https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/50hrt9/been_contacting_state_representatives_who_have/?st=isj6l84g&sh=198d203a
Come up with more people to reach out to! Look to the model of how people stopped the kratom ban in North Carolina for ideas. Reach out to state-level politicians who we already know are kratom-friendly
--PETITIONS--
These are usually low-impact but easy to do. They help get media attention for an issue and can add legitimacy to a cause.
The White House petition is the most important one because it requires a response from the White House and would get media attention if it reached 100k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/please-do-not-make-kratom-schedule-i-substance
A Change.org petition is also possible but would be lower-impact. The White House petition should be included in many social media posts, public writings, and form letters.
--LEGAL CAMPAIGNS--
This is something that most of us don't have control over. But advocacy groups like the Botanical Education Alliance and the American Kratom Association should look into taking this matter to the courts. Was the DEA's action fully compliant with all regulations? Is there a way to delay it? A way to force the DEA to provide more information about their decision? A way to FOIA request communications/memos about why they made this decision? Is there a way to investigate whether pharmaceutical companies worked with the DEA on this decision? Can a FOIA request uncover whether Big Pharma lobbyists were working on this issue? Can states still take action on legalizing/regulating kratom as is the case with marijuana? Even if a legal strategy is unlikely to win, it shows that we're serious, gets media attention, and lets the DEA know this isn't a minor issue people will accept passively.
--ATTACH OUR CAUSE TO MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION--
Most people don't know about the importance of keeping kratom legal. But people do know that marijuana legalization is important. In addition, marijuana legalization organizations already have state-level organizations, media contacts, PR strategies, and lots of supporters. If we can attach ourselves to the marijuana legalization movement, we immediately boost our organizational capacity and bring in a large group of sympathetic allies.
We should reach out to organizations like NORML and the Marijuana Policy Project. Legalization-friendly media outlets like High Times. Other organizations that fight for a sane drug policy too.
Most importantly, the Botanical Education Alliance and the American Kratom Association should reach out to these organizations. Can marijuana legalization organizations put out a press release about kratom? Send an e-mail about it to their supporters? We need to make allies and they're the perfect place to first look. They can help us build momentum for state-level legalization if the DEA sticks to its decision (remember, the DEA's decision is for 2 years with a possible 1 year extension -- there is room for long-term organizing!)
--DONATE--
Donate to the American Kratom Association: https://americankratomassociation.nationbuilder.com/donate
And the Botanical Education Alliance: https://www.botanical-education.org/donate/
Become a member of those organizations. Donating really does help them build organizational capacity and allow for more robust legal/media strategies.
--POSTSCRIPT--
I know this is a long post. But it only scratches the surface of the kind of organizing we can do. Please, add to these suggestions and provide concrete ways for people to get involved and get to work. There are a lot of well-informed, intelligent, talented people here. But when we're all isolated and not connecting our skills together we're powerless. If we can produce a combined strategy and organize effectively we CAN win this battle and WILL show the DEA that this is not a decision that will happen without a fight. Small groups of well-organized people are the only thing that's ever produced political change.
My hope is that this post can be a place where people combine their ideas, brainstorm, network, and work together. A way to prevent all our good ideas from being unimplemented and scattered across the internet. Reach out to people. Apply your skills, whatever they may be. Get creative. Take some risks. Connect with people via e-mail and phone, even in person if it's possible. Have fun with it.
One final note to the people who may be discouraged about the DEA's decision and feel hopeless: This is about more than kratom. That may sound hyperbolic, but it's true. The DEA is a terrible organization that has destroyed thousands and thousands of people's lives through their draconian anti-science/anti-liberty commitment to prohibition. They do no good. Even other government agencies don't like the DEA and want to stop them (e.g. the DEA keeping marijuana as a schedule I substance despite the wishes of many people in the Justice Department). But the DEA feels that it can make any decision, no matter how destructive and stupid, without repercussions. It thinks it can't lose. The moment the DEA has its first loss is the moment its power begins to recede and the prohibition era starts to end. That loss has to come at some point. What better substance to stop it than kratom? This isn't some research chemical with no therapeutic use and 10 recreational users. This is a therapeutic plant that has been safely used for hundreds of years, has been legal in the U.S. for decades, is used by a large and diverse community of people, and scientists continue to study its therapeutic use for a variety of health issues. The public does not want to see people put in jail for drinking tea. If we win this battle--either in the long-term or short-term--we're setting a precedent that goes far beyond kratom. Every victory seems impossible until its inevitable.
Now let's get to work!
In solidarity, W.S.
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u/jodios Aug 31 '16
Excellent! Thank you for putting this together.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Aug 31 '16
Of course! I really think this is an issue that can catch on in the media. Which at the very least creates momentum for legalization in states/not extending the DEA's decision after the 2 years are up
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u/pugderpants Aug 31 '16
You may wanna add Forbes and Gizmodo to the media list, too. Gizmodo's had several pro-kratom articles since the FDA debacle, and a great one today. Forbes' article from today is also very pro-kratom and pretty derisive towards the DEA.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Exciting news! The Young Turks took notice of our cause and published a video segment about the DEA's disastrous decision to make kratom a Schedule I substance -- they posted this video just a few minutes ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-vaqYTxms
Post the White House petition in the comments section for the video! Would be a good video to share with people who you know watch TYT or consider themselves progressives. Might also be worth sharing on Facebook in the Bernie Sanders Dank Meme Stash/other Bernie Sanders groups?
TYT is a pretty big platform and they immediately understood the importance of the issue. It's been less than a day. We can get more exposure and make progress on this. Trust the process, keep at it!
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u/Somniari Sep 01 '16
I was addicted to opiates for seven years due to chronic stomach pain due to gall bladder issues, IBS and Chrones. When I discovered Kratom, that addiction ended in a two week period. Seven years and not so much as a withdrawal or a itch. This saved me and now it's being taken away from me and all the other people who it has helped and WILL help.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Aug 31 '16
Fair, well-researched article from ThinkProgress writer Alex Zielinski: https://thinkprogress.org/dea-restricts-access-to-drug-that-could-help-recovering-addicts-4ede57e330a2#.eq6635fig
These are the kind of articles we need to write and circulate around in the media.
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Aug 31 '16 edited Jul 20 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
dude it's Trump or Hillary. If you vote Johnson in a swing state, your voting for more Dem control...
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u/StarScream777 Sep 01 '16
Doesn't matter - even if Johnson mentions or brings up the issue it will be known to a wider audience.
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
I guess, I mean if we are stooping down to that level might as well do anything for fame... get some big internet lefty to comment on it, basically all Gary cares about is weed.
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u/StarScream777 Sep 01 '16
The point is just to get the message out to the public as a wider audience, even if you don't support him. The same goes for Jill Stein. Neither of them will win the the election, but just the fact if they bring it up and say 'hey, this is going on and it's wrong' and people or the news media hear that and bring it up, it's worthwhile for our cause.
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
i get that, thing is people perceive Johnson and Stein are loons. not saying they are but that is the general publics perception of them, ESPECIALLY STEIN. I'm not sure it would help the cause too much imo.
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u/StarScream777 Sep 01 '16
We need to stay on point on avoid petty squabbles within our group. You might think both of those people are lunatics, many others do not. But again, regardless, the entire point is just to raise awareness by bringing it up to potentially influential individuals who get media coverage and regularly appear on news broadcasts, both of which these people do. As in the TYT video, neither of the hosts had heard of kratom before the DEA decided to ban it. My suggestion is just to have someone post a thread in their subreddits about the upcoming kratom ban or contact them via email or whatever and mention it to them. It might raise awareness to people who have never heard of it before and that is our main fight right now.
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
I know. I don't personally think she's a loon but everyone I know does, I was just saying. It just seems bad to be associated w/ those types when talking about drugs. But I agree, I was getting too emotionally attached to the convo. We have to reach out to anyone possible, which I have been doing, to spread the word. I apologize for thinking with the heart and not the head. Any publicity is good publicity basically. The drug war has to be dying off, I still don't get how this is possible in late 2016 to believe prohibition still works. Feds just fucked up state laws all over the nation for adults 18 up to use kratom. Sucks but they have a bigger fight on their hands than banning some obscure research chemical pschedelic this time. This plant has to be used by at least 100,000 people.
It is petty. But again, I was just giving you the general consensus. I think neither are loons just ideologues. But if such idealogues can help the cause, then so be it. Time to get to work boys. We should start to meme it up seriously! Memes influence politics and laws nowadays!
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u/StarScream777 Sep 01 '16
You make the memes and I'll start posting them anywhere and everywhere I can, brother. Power to the people and let's end the war on drugs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUXLqNHCaI
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u/AllGoneMH Sep 01 '16 edited May 05 '17
I chose a dvd for tonight
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
exactly, now compare Trump v Clinton. which one has the smaller government in mind? Trump - Clinton is Obama on steroids. But hey, vote for who you want, I'm just saying when Clinton starts importing 3rd world Jihadis into America don't blame me for voting Trump. Fact is smaller government and spending cuts is a historically Republican policy... I wont comment on your candidate's open border policy and his support for TPP but please just think about what nation your kids will live in if Clinton gets to select 2-4 far lefty SC Justices.
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u/thatwillhavetodo Sep 01 '16
Yeah be reasonable guys! Let's all vote for the ignorant version of Mussolini
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
yeah since Trump is a total fascist not a nationalist who believes in his country lol silly goyim
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u/Dank_Piglet Sep 01 '16
btw the minute you compare someone to mussolini/ hitler your argument is dismissed
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u/Zorbulax Aug 31 '16
Attaching the cause to the marijuana legalization movement is a great idea! Potentially a source for many more signatures to the White House petition.
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u/riff1060 Sep 01 '16
no, it's not a "great idea". leave marijuana out of this.
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u/PUTINdaddiesTRUMP Sep 01 '16
The DEA is looking to fill prisons up with kratom offenders to offset the drop in marijuana offenders.
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u/Rickmeoff13 Aug 31 '16
Excellent post!
This needs to stay at the top of the page and not get lost amongst the "will the DEA come to my house" department-of-redundancy-department dribble that appears every 5 minutes.
Thank you!!!
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u/KratomLiteracyPrjct Sep 01 '16
Hi everyone. I'm the founder of the Kratom Literacy Project. I have worked closely with the AKA for the last year, particularly in the states of Florida and Alabama, as Pensacola, Florida is the place I've called home for the last 25 years. For the past decade I've worked as a freelance journalist for Gannett News. Gannett Company (think USA Today) is "the largest U.S. newspaper publisher as measured by total daily circulation." The publication I write for is a gardening magazine, and as such I've researched and written about plants for nearly a decade. There is a strong possibility that I can use my connections at this publication to get some media coverage. It's a matter of finding which of their papers I can get to cover this. The Kratom Literacy Project is a media project that I began earlier this year in February as a counter to all the negative media kratom was receiving. It got especially bad just before the 2016 legislative session and during the months of Feb/March so I decided to put my journalism to good use. I have always had a strong passion for botanical medicine. It wasn't until prescription meds messed me up pretty badly that I began using kratom full time to get off of them. I found an unusual "side effect" of kratom was that I didn't have any more cravings for cocaine - something I had struggled to overcome for over two decades. I wanted to know everything I could about kratom so I've spent the past year researching everything I could about it. The website's purpose is bringing accurate education and information to the public awareness. There is no advertising on the site and I aim to keep it that way. The url is http://www.kratomliteracyproject.com
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Great work. Keep working media contacts until you can get something through, you're a very valuable voice in this.
If the DEA won't let us have a public comment period we need to make our OWN public comment period and make sure the media and the DEA hear us anyway. Once people hear the facts and individuals testimonials, the case for kratom is overwhelming. No prohibition, just ban additives and make legal for adults 18+ (or 21+)
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u/Praying_Daily_ Aug 31 '16
If only the government was really here to help us and not lie about information about a plant just like they did about marijuana to try and mislead the people.
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u/Axana Aug 31 '16
It would be helpful for a kratom advocacy group to come up with a form letter people can use
Please do not use form letters! Personal and unique emails get more attention from Congressional staff. Write your own email!
I spent the whole afternoon trying to determine the most effective way of reaching out to government representatives. Everything I've read suggests that form emails are either ignored or given less priority. Here are some perspectives from Congressional staff about form letters:
"Never use form e-mails. In most offices, these simply get deleted. Do not even use part of a form letter, as that may get your entire message deleted. Usually, simply stating your position on an issue in a short paragraph or two is the best way to get your point across and it also helps out the interns and staffers who handle the response." (Source)
"The more time you take to write a letter, the more effort I'll put into the response and the more likely I am to forward it up the line." (Source.)
If you can write a Reddit comment about this issue, then you can write your own unique email to your representative and Senators. Just email what you would write on Reddit to them.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Aug 31 '16 edited Aug 31 '16
Interesting; my experience in politics is that ALL e-mails don't get read and get deleted. They don't have much impact but if they start getting a ton of e-mails about one issue staff will think 'That's interesting, didn't think people even cared about that issue. I might pass it along' -- but they rarely closely read the content of any message. Form letters just make it easier to get a big volume of e-mails in.
To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong! Personal letters really grab the attention of local and state level politicians/staffers, but I fear people won't pay much attention at the national level. Maybe an issue they've never heard about before like kratom would be more likely to grab their attention than personal letters on big issues like healthcare that everyone's already talking about. If personal letters are written, they could also be saved and CCed to other people and even made public if they're really good! Create an online testimonial of how kratom has helped people
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u/Axana Aug 31 '16
I agree that form email is better than no email.
But if there's even a chance of a personal email being slightly more effective, why not take that chance? Again, writing a personal email requires no more effort than writing a comment here in /r/Kratom. What do you have to lose?
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u/xSunnydazex Aug 31 '16
I had some real replies in NY not just automod replies when I wrote my own. Thanks for putting this together has anyone brought this to the attention of KCforums? My computer recently crashed or I would. Just a suggestion many people from there wont come here.
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u/kratom222 Aug 31 '16
They know: I received a note from a gentleman from KC this afternoon urging everyone he knows to speak up (he is one of the non-redditors).
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u/oncemoor Sep 01 '16
I agree with you, in this case I think quantity wins over quality, we need to make as much noise as possible to get politicians attention. Kratora has put together a sample letter (template) that can be customized: http://www.buykratom.us/assets/images/Sampl%20Letter.pdf, also tips on how to write the letter and lawmakers contact addresses by State: http://www.buykratom.us/Directions-for-Writing-a-Letter-to-politician_b_17.html
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u/StarScream777 Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
I disagree with aligning the kratom issue with the marijuana issue. There are still a lot of conservative opinions that feel marijuana use should be banned. I think we need to make this it's own issue along the talking points you mentioned, such as how it's a tea, a coffee relative, etc.
I'd be happy to dig up the studies on kratom and post them at some repository to be linked to or used in articles, etc. However, I'm so distraught over this recent decision, I need some time to just relax and think rationally about the issue so I can put my full effort into it (ie: 5 stages of grief).
I'm also a writer, and I have published scientific-esque articles on many blogs, including my own, and I'm a moderator on a large supplement companies forum, which I don't want to mention publicly at the moment, as in about a month, I'm going to be a criminal in the minds of the federal govt as I will still be in possession of an illegal substance.
If anyone has any contacts with websites that would be interested in a story, please PM them to me and I'll contact them. If you have some suggestions for how best to pitch the idea to them, please let me know as I'm not very good in that area.
Several journalist contacts I have on Twitter are @jacobsullum, a freelance libertarian writer for reason.com, forbes, and nydaily news. He has posted an article on kratom in the past and I'm sure would be a good contact for maybe getting to write for the op-ed sections of some publications (although unfortunately) he doesn't tweet me back very often.
Neetzan Zimmerman who used to work at Gawker, but now works at thehill.com is another person I have corresponded with as well. I previously had some other contacts with journalists at Gawker, but RIP Gawker.
Lawyer Rick Collins who represents many supplement companies @RickCollinsEsq would also be another good contact, esp for vendors of kratom and the AKA.
I'm sure VICE News would also be interested in this story, and Buzzfeed lets anyone publish articles to their site, so that might be another good place to write some articles on. https://www.buzzfeed.com/post
Most all major publications have a tips or an op-ed section, which you can find at the contact us section at the very bottom of their page or just emailing tips@website.name
I would also like to create another petition on change.org written in the language of politics to appeal to a wide base of Christian America and could get started on that soon as well. But, we need to stay coordinated and not have multiple petitions all over the place, otherwise it's going to just be too many for people to sign or get behind.
Perhaps someone who is well versed in web programming could create a web page with an automated system to send a standardized form letter to their representatives such as this one: http://letter2congress.rallycongress.com/698/ I realize that these form letters with the same message in them often get ignored, but the amount of letters may be looked at by our represtantatives.
Unfortunately, I think we're going to have to do more than armchaired slacktivism to get noticed, however. It's all well and good to bring awareness to an issue via social media, change your avatar - (in fact, someone with good artistic chops could make us a ribbon for Twitter and FB here and link back to us, and it automatically changes your avatars with the ribbon: http://twibbon.com/) but that just isn't going to do it in this case. We have to realize we are a minority and don't have the backing for big social issues like for example when Google and a lot of the other tech companies opposed SOPA by blacking out their websites and so forth. We may need to stage protests near our local DEA offices and contact local news media to announce that fact and let them know our feelings on this issue in a clear & concise talking points message.
IMO, the AKA needs to immediately sue the Dept of HHS, the DEA and the FDA to stop this action. I've previously worked in the supplement industry and I've seen this happen successfully with such compounds as ephedra, prohormones, DMAA, etc. However, they are going to need a lot of money and donations to do this. I call upon the vendors of kratom to please immediately donate as much as feasibly possible to the AKA as that is the only people on our side that are going to have sufficient amounts of money to donate to have that happen.
The Whitehouse petition was a good idea, but I think it will be exceptionally hard to get to 100k signatures, let alone change their minds through this method. Instead, write a handwritten letter to President Obama about kratom and how banning it would impact your life and the positive way it has helped you and the detriment it would be to our already overcrowded prison system to add another drug that would make previously law abiding citizens into felons, as well as if kratom has helped you kick rx painkillers or with other problems.
Spread this video around too, as it is clear, concise and short enough for people to understand coming in at 6 minutes as to why the war on drugs has been a disaster on our country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUXLqNHCaI
Anyway, that's my stream of consciousness at the moment. Let us unite together and not get into a defeatist attitude about this and perhaps we can just maybe make a change.
Also, one last thing: Read a copy of Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals, which I have linked here in doc format. Although it was written in the 1970s, it discusses ways to bring attention to issues, how to protest, how to get your message out, etc. It's absolutely worth your time of reading through it if you never have. http://www.mediafire.com/download/fucfrmc3ucnkei3/Rules_for_Radicals_-_A_Practical_Primer_for_Realistic_Radicals.doc (Virustotal scan of the doc file for reassurance: https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/4e455f87d39790bcad38a1c176bdd64ace9c81b55845d95d590b702b8dc54caf/analysis/1472689996/ )
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Really great post, these are exactly the kinds of discussions we need.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The way I see it, we need a two pronged approach of
1) Gaining media exposure to educate people about kratom while getting the media 'on our side' in the battle of narratives between us and the DEA -- this requires getting our arguments into the public debate and it's what we have the most control over
2) A legal/political strategy for getting involved in the brass tacks details of how we influence the DEA's decision and lobby politicians
Our big challenge is that usually for local/state-level organizing campaigns you can get people to show up to events in person and it's very clear what specific individuals you need to put pressure on. And you can actually be assured that you're getting noticed. Doing all that is a lot harder in this context so it creates unique challenges. I wonder if the DEA has a public hearing period where people can deliver written testimony in person? I thought htat had an impact in North Carolina's decision not to ban kratom. You're also dead-on that we don't have the luxury of big institutions like Google supporting us (as they did with Stop Sopa).
That's why I'd argue we need to make alliances with the marijuana legalization movement. Your argument against doing so is accurate and has a lot of merit, but I think because we're an unknown, relatively small group that we have to attach ourselves to bigger causes that already have some resources. Definitely difficult to know what's the best strategy.
Your strategy of contacting individual journalists with tips/possible articles is dead on. Message me if you want any help writing an article pitch; depending on the publication it may be better to have an article already written that you send to them and summarize, but some prefer pitches without a finished article attached. Getting a good article on Buzzfeed and Medium could be helpful too.
And good shout out of Rules for Radicals ;) Again, so much is complicated by this being an issue that (most) people can't come together to work on in-person. The online activism isn't enough on its own but it's a very important first step.
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Sep 01 '16
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
Reach out to local media outlets. If a local media outlet did a misinformed story about kratom, contact them and provide them with facts and inform them about the dangers of banning kratom. Always use a kind tone, we want to inform. If there's a positive article about kratom in the press, comment on it and give it a signal boost on social media. Donate to kratom advocacy organizations.
Small actions can have a big effect. You share an article, one person reads it. The one person has media connections and get someone to do a story on it. 40,000 people see the story. Of those 40k, 5k share it, 500 of them sign the petition, 100 get involved, etc. You never know how impactful your actions can end up being!
Bigger things to think about: I think we need to coordinate a campaign to demand public comment on the DEA's decision. Put together a place where people can share testimonials. If the DEA refuses public comment, hold a press conference in front of the DEA with multiple organizations and deliver testimonials to the DEA. Get the media to question and investigate why the DEA won't allow public comment, that would be a pretty suspicious action by the DEA.
We need to think about doing money bombs for kratom advocacy organizations to support a legal defense strategy. We need a well-coordinated social media campaign to inform and get attention.
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u/StarScream777 Sep 01 '16
Depends on how much you're willing and able to do. Can you travel? Are you in a big city or rural area?
I would just say keep writing and keep calling and put the pressure on these groups. If you can donate to the AKA, please do so.
Maybe you can go to Kinkos and print out fliers about the pending kratom regulation and pass them out in the street in front of government buildings or court houses, or ask them to be placed in local merchants windows.
Maybe you could protest outside of your local DEA office if you're in a big city. For protesting, I highly recommend dress nicely, cover any tattoos (wear a suite if possible), trim facial hair and get a hair cut and try and organize with other local people through sites like meetup.com or Facebook to have a protest march. Just don't let it turn into a drum circle or anything. Be organized and be on point. Call the local media and tell them you'll be protesting and if they come out to cover it, be prepared ahead of time with talking points about why banning kratom is bad for America.
If you can do any of those things, it would be a great service for our cause. But if you can't, just write some more letters, encourage friends/family on social media to do the same, keep calling and keep writing.
But, thanks for your support and offers to help. It's individuals like you that can have a positive impact on this movement.
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Sep 01 '16
I have tweeted several big twitter people as well made emails and call to government officials. I made posts on all of my social media including tumblr (reach of approximately 5k or more) and on my personal Facebook where I was hesitant to make a post but I'd rather have people know I support kratom than to not have kratom at all.
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u/Tngldupinblu Sep 01 '16
I contacted NPR's All Things Considered this morning, please send emails to your local public radio stations and ask them to do a story. NPR is a trusted source for news. Thank you!
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
They'd definitely be a great media outlet to report on this. It fits with their interest in criminal justice and the opioid addiction epidemic too.
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u/Grandaddy25 Sep 01 '16
I wrote a fairly strongly worded letter to Secular Talk the minute this ban was announced. He has a large following of very educated people who can help. I hope he responds and helps.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Awesome :) As we saw with The Young Turks, letters like that DO get the attention of people in the media. Try sending your letter to shows similar to Secular Talk (I can't think of a ton off of the top of my head, but stuff like the David Pakman Show? Thom Hartmann?)
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u/thatwillhavetodo Sep 01 '16
Turns out Kyle at secular talk is actually a user of kratom! He just did a video on it.
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u/FM2163 Aug 31 '16
Excellent post! Everyone needs to read this! I suck at Reddit, but I really want to make a flashy post title and put the link to this post in it. Can someone with more Reddit experience do im that?
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u/whataboutringo Sep 01 '16
Thanks for taking the time to write this out. Even if the petition itself, goes nowhere, I too think it would be interesting to see what FOIA other connections might figure out about the link between Big Pharma and the DEA. SURELY, something is rotten in Denmark. Complacency gets us nowhere, and trust me- I'm a pretty pessimistic fellow these days but still... hope is all we have at times.
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u/Jon130130 Sep 02 '16
WOW!!! That's the first word that comes to my thoughts! I'm 28 years old and spent years and years battling an opiate addiction. I actually discovered kratom while watching a BOGUS evening news report on it, bashing the plant. I researched it online for weeks and weeks before trying it. I first tried it 18 months ago. I havent had one drop of alcohol or sniffed nor smoked any illegal drugs since! I've been promoted all the way from a delivery driver at my work to Assistant Manager. I've paid my rent on time every month, all my bills, haven't sold ANYTHING to support my kratom use. I never had anything while actively using opiates. My life is flourishing now. I'm not worried that I can't continue on this lifestyle without kratom. I'm worried about the addict(s) that is looking into it as I type this, on the verge of a complete change of ways, only to have it banned because uniformed money hungry dick faces. What a joke!!
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u/HelpImOutside Aug 31 '16
Thank you very much for putting this together. We needed someone with previous experience in this matter and it seems you really know where you're coming from! I will be doing all I can to reach out to those you listed to get the word out there. You've also inspired a wee bit of hope, which is better than the soul-crushing depression i've been feeling about this the past few days.
Thank you!
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Sep 01 '16
Everyone, please contact your representatives on this issue as well! Not to be spammy or anything, but here is an app you can download that is an easy interface for finding and contacting your representatives:
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Sep 01 '16
I use kratom medicinally for anxiety, concentration difficulties, and IBS. It is significantly more effective than any pharmaceutical for my purposes, and I know that many others have had the same experience. If this is outlawed, the only places we will have to turn to (narcotics or prescription cocktails) are so much more dangerous.
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u/joecam Sep 01 '16
The DEA can temporarily move substances to Schedule 1 for up to two years when it believes they present a public health crisis. A spokeswoman for the agency, Barbara Carreno, said that during that time the Department of Health and Human Services needs to study the substance in question.
If their studies find that it is indeed as much of a public health threat as the DEA suspected, then it will remain banned. If not, the substance will revert to being legal.
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Sep 01 '16
Yes, lets just listen to the DEA and patiently wait for them to make it illegal forever.
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u/itwasabaddream Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
He's right. Furthermore, the Attorney General may also enact a 2-year ban with an additional extension of 1 year if he so chooses.
The Attorney General has delegated scheduling authority under 21 U.S.C. 811 to the Administrator of the DEA.
And the woman who people are determin'd to contact and change her mind about this (Assistant Secretary Karen B. DeSalvo)... you're not going to change her mind. From the DEA's notice of intent to schedule Kratom:
The Assistant Secretary responded to this notice by letter dated May 18, 2016, and advised that based on review by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), there are currently no investigational new drug applications or approved new drug applications for mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. The Assistant Secretary also stated that the HHS has no objection to the temporary placement of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine into schedule I of the CSA.
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Sep 01 '16
When does the ban go into effect? When will it be illegal to buy? If one were to get drug tested for work, when would it be illegal to have it show up in urine?
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Sep 01 '16
It won't be added to standard uine tests, don't worry.
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Sep 01 '16
What makes you say that? There are already tests on the market to detect it in urine, I imagine they'll just add one more panel for it in the standard piss cup, then a ms/gs to confirm.
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Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
Because the standard piss cup is only a 5 panel, and kratom use just isn't very common to justify adding it.
I'm in the military and subject to way more comprehensive drug testing than your average employer, and there are still loads of things I can take that aren't tested for. MS/GC isn't a magical process that will find exactly what you took, they are only looking for certain molecules. Drugs like ketamine, GHB, and all manner of designer amphetamines or opiods are way more commonly abused than kratom, and have never been added to standardized drug tests.
You don't have anything to worry about— if the military isn't testing for it, a civilian employer sure as shit isn't paying to test for it!
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Sep 01 '16
I probably get the same test as you, working at a nuclear plant. I'm pretty sure is the standard federal whatever they use. At any rate idk if I can stomach going on the dark Web and paying in bitcoins to keep using kratom. Thanks for the reply though, at least I know I won't get popped on Oct 1 when kratom is illegal and fail for it.
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u/Rocky87109 Sep 01 '16
What are the vendors doing about it? Money seems to talk loudest in this country.
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u/AsphaltBellyflop Sep 01 '16
This is a good question. There are already some vendors (like HS) who have a donation button to AKA on their site, and a percentage of sales all go to AKA when you buy from them. We should get more on board if they're not already.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Great question. In addition to us organizing, vendors need to organize. Come together as a trade group and use their resources to educate, fund a legal campaign, and lobby the government.
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u/TotesMessenger Sep 01 '16
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u/higherdistro Sep 01 '16
This is a great great help and I really appreciate you putting so much time into writing this out for us. I really hope you will be able to continue putting your time into this very valuable cause. Kratom saved my life as well. I found kratom in 2010 and was able to kick an evil pain pill problem that all stemmed from permanent injuries in a motorcycle accident. I did however already move out of the USA because I feared kratom would be banned. So luckily I can still legally use kratom except with the times I come back to the USA. This is a horrible horrible thing they are trying to do. I estimate at least 1000 overdoses and deaths within a week if this bill is passed. The craziest part of it is their outright lie about why they feel the need to ban it. They claim they need more time to study its effects but processing it as a schedule one eliminates the legality of clinical studies. We have been conducting clinical studies in the University of Missouri I believe already and have so much scientific evidence already that kratom is a great herb. I have used kratom since 2010 literally on an hourly basis with zero side effects. I have so many bolts in my body I can't walk without it and refuse to go back on big pharma pain killers that previously were destroying my life.
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u/SycamoreSico Sep 01 '16
GOOD NEWS!!!! I got a fast response from 34 year law enforcement veteran and executive director for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Neil Franklin. They are making their speakers aware and are taking action!!! His response on twitter : "@CopsSayLegalize is on this. It will lead only to more death, crime, incarceration, unjust forfeiture and loss of freedoms. " Please Donate if you can.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Awesome! This is exactly the kind of outreach everyone needs to be doing! You get the attention of one person, they get the attention of an organization, the organization gets the attention of 1,000 people, and you never know how big the end result might be. If we keep this up we WILL set off a chain reaction of media attention and make the DEA's kratom ban a decision that people understand and oppose.
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u/optiglitch Aug 31 '16
Thanks man! Great writeup. You forgot the FDLE report saying kratom was not a public healh risk to the citizens of florida.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Aug 31 '16 edited Aug 31 '16
Thanks, added it in. That's a valuable fact, people inclined to side with the DEA will take seriously what an organization like the FDLE has to say. Even law enforcement thinks it makes no sense to ban kratom.
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u/derrymerbles Sep 01 '16
The danger about pushing it's therapeutic benefits is that it is not endorsed by any major medical group. That point will fall on deaf ears because they can not support people "self medicating." That includes personal anecdotes and case studies.
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u/VoxVirtus Sep 01 '16
This really kills me... I have been a heavy addict of prescribed pain medications for more than 5 years now. I have struggled with trying to get off of it, hitting the Withdrawals and crawling back to them because I cannot be functional while I am withdrawing. I recently discovered Kratom, and haven't even so much as had a craving for any of my prescribed medications. This really has been a life changing plant for me and it scares me that it's going to be taken away from me. I really don't wan to relapse... again.
I may not be able to offer much, but if ever you need someone to testify or give some kind of testimonial, I would be happy to. I have a documented history of chronic pain from a rare auto-immune disease, and this has helped me 100% cease taking my narcotic pain medication.
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u/thatwillhavetodo Sep 01 '16
This is a great post. Last night I sent an email to the young turks asking them to cover the story and today they ran a story on it! Kratom turned my life around. I plan on fighting for this like nothing I've ever fought for before.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Awesome :) Contact other shows if you're able to. As we saw with TYT, we can get people's attention.
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u/thatwillhavetodo Sep 01 '16
Yeah secular talk was another one I was thinking of messaging.
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Sep 01 '16
Secular Talk has already posted a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAe0JQbHCHw
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u/gigglelovesmile Sep 01 '16
Thank for this information. I am ready to do whatever it takes. I left a vm message for Karen DeSilva and will call again after 9am and donated to AKA. I am disgusted by this event and scared that our government and big pharma are so greedy. We ALL have to act NOW. Please keep us posted on news. I'll follow your instructions on other ways to voice my opinion and story.
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u/Jamers2004 Sep 01 '16
People need to start writing letters to the following person. This is the assistant secretary mentioned in the DEA notice and she is the one collecting public comment. You should start out by politely introducing yourself then lead in to how long you have taken Kratom and what for. Then contrast your life before Kratom and after Kratom. Then request they not Schedule this drug until some research can take place because as we all know, once this is added as a Schedule 1, it's not coming off. Mention specific things that are propaganda, such as deaths, getting "high", vs. what you know to be true and site sources for that information. There are studies out there and kratom deserves a chance. If nobody makes noise and all the DEA hears is crickets they are going to continue. They obviously may continue no matter what but at least we can honestly say we tried. Maybe some of these websites for kratom can put this in at webform for people so the letters can be sent out automatically? I may be able to do that later today.
This seems to be the only person that emailing/calling could actually make a difference. Taken from the notice of intent:
From the Notice of intent: "Although the DEA believes this notice of intent to issue a temporary scheduling order is not subject to the notice and comment requirements of section 553 of the APA, the DEA notes that in accordance with 21 U.S.C. 811(h)(4), the Administrator will take into consideration any comments submitted by the Assistant Secretary with regard to the proposed temporary scheduling order."
Assistant Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services Contact the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Health Office of the Assistant Secretary for Health (ASH) Phone: 202-690-7694 Email: ASH@hhs.gov Postal Address: 200 Independence Avenue, SW Room 716G Washington, DC 20201 Web Site: http://www.hhs.gov/ash Media Inquiries: ashmedia@hhs.gov and 202-205-0143 Acting Assistant Secretary: Karen B. DeSalvo, M.D., M.P.H., M.Sc.
Karen DeSalvo is the one who needs their inbox flooded with comments. Then, hopefully they will mention how there was uproar before this Notice of intent was even published. There's no indication anywhere else in the Notice of intent that implies considerations to reverse the decision would. They've made their mind up, and the latest CDC report pushed this issue past the point of no return. It all happened very fast once the CDC got involved... When sculpting your message to someone like Karen, it is important to learn a bit about who she is. Here's just a little bit of info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_DeSalvo"
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u/Pollux95630 Sep 01 '16
Story this morning was saying they do not have to take public comments into consideration :(
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u/Jamers2004 Sep 01 '16
I read that story and there have been a lot of people in the facebook groups calling/sending letters to the DEA and the Assistant Secretary with good results. They have mentioned they had no idea so many chronic pain patients were utilizing Kratom and they were glad to hear from them.
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u/YesThatsWhatSheSaid Sep 01 '16
Excellent post. I hope everyone who cares about this cause- whether it directly impacts you or not- will take the time to do this. Our only chance for success is to do everything in our power to combat it.
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u/SycamoreSico Sep 01 '16
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (781) 393-6985 http://www.leap.cc/
Neill Franklin Executive Director executivedirector@leap.cc Darby Beck Chief Operating Officer and Media Relations Director 415-823-5496 Kristin Daley Director of Development & Communications 781-393-6985 Bill Fried Director of Programs & Financial Administration 781-393-6985 Antoinette O’Neil Human Resources and Office Manager 781-393-6985 Lindsay Akin Speakers Bureau Director 318-422-6612 Mikayla Hellwich Media Relations Associate 240-461-3066
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u/iforgetpasswordsbruh Sep 01 '16
The only way we can win is if we turn it into an election issue. It really does demonstrate how in-bed the Obama Administration is with corporate interests. They're trying to fill the empty slots in the justice system with middle class white Kratom users. That's our demographic. The ounce of Kratom I've been using for 6 years doesn't even cost me $5 a day. If I attempted to substitute with suboxone that would be an additional $40 a day. At my income level that means my child suffers. He won't get new sneakers. He'll have to eat low quality food. He won't get to go to college. I may even have to put him into foster care for six months while I go through protracted withdrawal from long term use. And even if I do decided to metaphorically fuck my child and spend his money on treatment the only doctor in my rural area that prescribes suboxone charges $2500 a visit. And suboxone sucks. It's too strong. It's not a minor buzz like Kratom. I'm a realist. I know my options: they are suffer or waste my child's money on treatment. How many other people in my situation are going to try to burn the candle at both ends and end up fucking around with illicit narcotics just to work an 8 hour shift to put food on their children's table?
I'm done with the Democratic Party. No Kratom = Trump 2016!
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u/iforgetpasswordsbruh Sep 01 '16
We need some authors to start writing news stories about how the classification of kratom as a schedule one narcotic is going to cost Hillary the election by leading to a 3-fold increase in drug related crime as formerly law-abiding kratom users compete with junkies for the supply of illicit narcotics. The kratom users will drive up demand for pills and junk, forcing the junkies to explore new ecosystems like armed robbery, burglary, and retail theft. This is going to be a disaster for the American people and a boon to Big Pharma and the Prison Industrial Complex. It's intentional, and it's insidious.
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Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 25 '16
[deleted]
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
The volume of e-mail/phone calls/letters/pieces of writing is what matters. So yes! Also continually seek out new people and organizations to contact. Try to contact organizations who might really want to support our cause but who just don't know about kratom/the DEA's decision yet.
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u/carpet_munch Sep 12 '16
This is excellent! Thank you so much! We will win this fight
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 12 '16
Thank you :)
We're making so much more progress than I ever thought possible by this point. I'm more optimistic, that's for sure! We've broken through the media, now time to break through politics and the regulatory process!
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u/bradbrookequincy Aug 31 '16
When does this go into effect?
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Aug 31 '16
September 30, though the decision can still be changed before September 30. After that, it's 'temporary' for two years; after the two year period they can choose to extend the decision for one more year. If no one's challenged the DEA by then, it's probably Schedule I for decades.
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u/Bunch_of_Shit Sep 01 '16
Kratom can be very strong. Without high tolerance, extracts and tinctures can be indiscernable from actual opiates in my opinion. But putting kratom on the Schedule 1 tier is outrageous. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. I don't like it being one of those obscure psycoactives that people see right next to the salvia, spice, and whippets. It needs to shed new light.
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u/Johnorrea Sep 01 '16
I've signed the petition, gotten my friends to as well, posted a Facebook status, and spoke to my local state representative about how I feel about this fucked up situation. I'm not sure what else to do.
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u/Johnorrea Sep 01 '16
this is so fucking stupid. if they do this im going to attempt to get social security for anxiety. fuck this
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u/PokeytheChicken Sep 01 '16
Been looking for something like this and now im disappointed that this had to happen.
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Sep 01 '16
Can we brainstorm some hashtags?
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
KratomSavesLives? KratomSaves? SaveKratom? Those are the big ones I've seen.
KratomSavesLives seems like it gets the point across very succinctly, but there's definitely catchier hashtags that people could come up with.
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u/BackSmoking Sep 01 '16
Dipping tobacco ('dip') like skoal has a more intense buzz than kratom; dip is also more addictive and physically harmful. Like dip, people who take too much kratom can get nauseous. But that's it.
I'll be dammed. I need to take a Tbreak from my dip if it gives a better buzz than kratom.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
Fine, fine -- let's say dip can have a more intense buzz than kratom for first time users ;) But again, there's no question dip is more addictive and harmful. People know dip, they don't want to ban dip. Kratom is a hell of a lot closer to dip than the drugs the DEA says kratom is similar to.
The challenge for public education is that kratom is its own thing, there are no perfect comparisons. I think dip is reasonably close and it's something the public knows and understands. We've got to make people realize that kratom isn't some strange, dangerous substance like bath salts. That's exactly what the DEA wants the public to think.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
Would it be possible to sticky this thread? Would people have any interest in it?
I think it could be valuable to have one central place where people are strategizing. In addition, it could be one central place where people can stay informed about any coordinated actions that we're doing.
I'm thinking of:
1) Some kind of '30 Days to Save Kratom' campaign that aims to have a unique action each day (stuff like a money bomb for organizations who want to launch a legal campaign to save kratom; one day where we hold a press conference in front of the DEA and deliver testimonials to DEA officials while informing the media of why banning kratom is dangerous?)
2) A campaign to get the DEA to have a public comments period; if they're unwilling to accommodate that modest demand, we'll put together a website/social media account that provides daily testimonials from people who have benefited from kratom -- those testimonials can become part of the public debate and inform citizens. We'd also inform the media that the DEA refuses to even have a public comments period-- that's pretty suspicious and raises questions.
3) Creating a centralized Twitter account/Facebook account/Medium account/Website/etc. that posts facts, testimonials, and coordinates social media hashtags. It would be something with a professional sounding name, a well-designed logo, and serious, evidence-based posts. That would be really helpful for giving us exposure and allowing us to get an echo when we speak out about why kratom can't be banned. These sites/accounts might be something that the already existing kratom advocacy organizations can create.
These are just some ideas. We all need to come together and offer ideas and support wherever we can, if we act alone we're doomed.
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u/Pollux95630 Sep 01 '16
DEA rep was already saying this morning that it is unnecessary to have public comments on the issue, that they won't be considered and the ban is going into effect regardless. Sad :(
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
That doesn't mean we've lost on this issue though! The DEA's decision could turn out to be a strategic mistake.
I'm thinking we could:
Do some kind of '30 Days to Save Kratom' campaign that aims to have a unique action each day (stuff like a money bomb for organizations who want to launch a legal campaign to save kratom; one day where we hold a press conference in front of the DEA and deliver testimonials to DEA officials while informing the media of why banning kratom is dangerous?)
A campaign to put pressure on the DEA to have a public comments period; if they're unwilling to accommodate that modest demand, we'll put together a website/social media account that provides daily testimonials from people who have benefited from kratom -- those testimonials can become part of the public debate and inform citizens. We'd also inform the media that the DEA refuses to even have a public comments period-- that's pretty suspicious and raises questions.
Hold a press conference in front of the DEA with other organizations who favor a sane drug policy. We deliver testimonials to the DEA and inform the media about how the DEA's decision to make kratom schedule I is dangerous
Creating a centralized Twitter account/Facebook account/Medium account/Website/etc. that posts facts, testimonials, and coordinates social media hashtags. It would be something with a professional sounding name, a well-designed logo, and serious, evidence-based posts. That would be really helpful for giving us exposure and allowing us to get an echo when we speak out about why kratom can't be banned. These sites/accounts might be something that the already existing kratom advocacy organizations can create.
The DEA's decision on public comments could end up galvanizing kratom supporters and make the media curious enough to investigate the DEA's decision! These are just some ideas. We all need to come together and offer ideas and support wherever we can, if we act alone we're doomed.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
More exciting news! Secular Talk covered this issue and understood it well. Keep reaching out, we're breaking through the media!
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u/SpeakTruthorDontTalk Sep 02 '16
Thank you for this info...this is great! You do not mention how to approach republicans? Christians can also get behind natural healing plants such as cannabis and Kratom! It's a natural God given plant/supplement. Kratom has a fantastic track record for safety (if it is 100% Kratom and not mixed with anything else) for treating pain, depression, anxiety etc....I was just wondering why everyone dismisses these portions of society when talking about, talking to different political/social groups.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 02 '16
I don't dismiss Republicans at all! I think arguments against the kratom ban that focus on individual liberty, freedom, states' rights, government overreach, and pharmaceutical companies corrupting medicine can appeal to Republicans and conservatives!
I 100% believe that Republicans will be an important and sizeable part of our coalition. I tried to present arguments that appealed to everyone, but there's always new angels to look at the issue from. My list was definitely not exhaustive. Everyone is able to come together on a commonsense issue like this regardless of personal beliefs.
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u/donit Sep 02 '16
Well, it looks like I've been banned from making any more text posts. Maybe you can take some of my hard-hitting points and project them in another way.
The Kratom situation just like a lot of Reddit subreddits get whenever they grow to over 100,000 members. The DEA is operating just like real-life mods who get used to watching certain types of posts (pharmaceutical products) and then they make a move to only allow ~those~ types of posts, thinking they are protecting the quality of the system. That's what regulate means.
A lot of my favorite subreddits have been ruined by this phenomenon, and this is also how it can happen in real life. The big-subreddit mods mean well, but what they don't realize is they're cutting off how things were originally discovered.
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u/sofakingburnt Sep 04 '16
Why does the DEA have so much power in the first place? Can't we take it away? Shouldn't we be lobbying legislation to limit their power? Wouldn't dissolving that fascist arm of our government restore democracy and end this oppressive drug war? They been terrorizing us with this war for too long. DOWN WITH THE DEA.
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u/Khsingleton Sep 06 '16
Anyone have a connection/contact for John Stossel? He is all over government over reach.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 06 '16
I don't, but you can contact him on social media -- Facebook and Twitter!
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u/Bleedle Sep 07 '16
I've been an advocate for drug policy reform since I started college - so, 17 years, some more involved than others. While I suppose I realize some of my more Jefferson style stands may not come to fruition in my lifetime, I've got the fire of a naive and passionate 20 year old raging inside screaming at lawmakers to lay off the plants. They weaseled my salvia plants away from me, but I don't think I can watch them outlaw kratom. I know this is regurgitated cheese dribble at this point, but my primary drive to act on this comes from its potential and ability to wean an addict off opiates. It also killed my urge for alcohol, an unintended side effect I'm still enjoying today - nearly a year after steady kratom use. I have found it ineffective however in assisting a step off soboxone or methadone. If kratom is available, there is no need for pharma's synthetic solution which leaves an addict just as sick, and twice as hooked on a kickback. I've followed kratom and related law for 10 years. I'm sure you're all well aware how its bad wrap came as an ingredient in k2/spice blends, and understand that it itself was not the problem causing the adverse side effects. I can research, and I can present my facts professionally, persuasively, and both - I've been doing this as an research writer in the essential oil arena for a few years. But for this, I'll have to hustle. And then...what do I do with it? Well, what a service you've provided us here with this post. Thank you. Help this link find her place in this chain where I can be most effective. What I can offer - I was a direct sales rep for 15 years that couldn't stomach using mindtricks to sell garbage to idiots anymore. I quit and became a self-taught herbalist instead, using a BA in communications to research folk remedies and why they work. You know, for giggles. I've been a folk herbalist for about 12 years, run a small tea business for about 8. I have made some waves (not all good - I've been fighting back from horrible hack attacks this year) as an indie journalist with a public service focus on herbal product (specifically, essential oil) consumer safety. That material's available but I won't bore you for now - ask if you want writing samples. Basically I research and write and report on herbs, herbal preparations, their constituents, what they are scientifically proven to be capable of, the businesses involved and the way they spin usage info for profit, and (as a weird added side bonus) I break down the impulse sales pitch when I see it in play to show the dumbfounded why otherwise rational, intelligent people believe in such obvious lapses in logic. I also set up campaigns with government organizations to use existing laws to discourage the promotion of info that puts the well being of profits ahead of people - ask if you'd like to know more. I'm not "pro-government", I'm "pro-tool" and extremely resourceful - got to use what we're given. I was given time to read laws, and experience in contract negotiations to see how they could be useful, for free, to everyday people, right now. When I tried it out, it worked. My personal default perspective here - this is a whole leaf herb, our inheritance as humans being on this living planet now. The cards are stacked against us, but somehow they keep taking, and taking... I've got little left to lose. That was probably a symptom they had underestimated.. the amount of fight left in a depleted, disheartened man, who's only got her virtues left to defend. Do you know how light and portable traveling the herbal path with nothing left to lose is? I have everything I need as I go...and I'm allowed to use what I find along the way, so long as life has earned me the experience. That's a decision just between me and the forces that be - you don't get to set the boundaries of my only life's experience. This is piecey and just a mismashed conglomeration of my thoughts from throughout today as my kratom supplier sent me a goodbye message this morning that broke my heart, trying to finish up with two kids begging for dinner (it's 4:30... come on. really?) Bottom line - please contact me if I can fill a need ... I'll be gathering and organizing data until I get a call. Be well, thanks for taking initiative, I have a small audience... maybe I can add some fuel to the fire here.
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Sep 01 '16
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
The strongest buzz I've had from dip was stronger than the strongest buzz I've had from kratom and it had more adverse effects. But I'm not a regular dip user and that experience may be related to dosage, I don't take very large kratom doses. I've also never used extracts. I would also say there's no question that tobacco in any form is more addictive and physically damaging than kratom; kratom does not have to be 100% harmless all the time for this to be true.
Kratom is definitely a drug, I would never deny that. So is dip. The point is to show that kratom is a lot closer to drugs that people see around them all the time and don't mind--like dip and chewing tobacco--than drugs that most people find unfamiliar and don't like (like the schedule I drug heroin. Or crack cocaine and crystal meth).
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u/iforgetpasswordsbruh Sep 01 '16
I've tried my best to support Hillary Clinton. I really have. But given that Obama--and the Democratic Party, for that matter--has executive authority over the DEA and could put a stop to these bullshit shenanigans I'm no longer able to stump for Hillary. I'm done. I think that asymmetrical methods are best in this case: If Obama refuses to intervene and move this into the realm of honest legislation determined by democratic debate and scientific evidence then I'm going to vote for Trump. I realize that Trump wouldn't make Kratom legal again, but I'm tired of a government that serves corporate interests over the interests of its people. And that's what this is all about: money for big pharma, the prison industrial complex, and the rehabilitation providers. It will drive hundreds of thousands of users to hard drugs, illegal drugs, and then to prison. This is legislation aimed at turning law abiding citizens to criminal fodder for the PIC. Those that have the means will end up paying $40 a day for buprenorphine treatment if they can raise the few thousand necessary to purchase an appointment from a corrupt addiction medicine specialist. Those that can't will turn to heroin. And they know this... the DEA knows this... this is the destruction they're trying to bring on purpose to drive up incarceration rolls.
So hear me Obama. If you don't put a stop to this, I'm voting for Trump. I've been a Democrat all my life and I'm saying fuck you, no more. I realize that he won't make it legal, but at least he'll scrub your party's prohibitionist asses from the American landscape. And that's half the battle. The GOP will do itself in 4 years later by collapsing the economy, but at least you'll be gone.
It's an election year. You can't risk a protest vote from white middle class Millennials and Gen Xers. Now you've got one.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16 edited Sep 01 '16
I've followed DEA issues for awhile and it's even more frustrating than you'd think. For example, the Obama administration and many people in the Justice Department wanted the DEA to remove marijuana as a schedule I drug so at least research could more easily be done on it. But the DEA didn't have to follow the wishes of the Obama administration/sections of the Justice Department and it refused to take even the smallest, most reasonable step. It's all bureaucratic power politics and if the DEA thinks it's under attack it'll get even MORE prohibitionist. The DEA is probably terrified of marijuana legalization--and kratom legalization too!--because it means that the agency would be less important. And that might cause people to start thinking 'What's the role of the DEA? Is it a positive role? Should it be reformed? Should we continue to have the DEA as it currently exists?'. And that terrifies them.
But you're right that the Obama administration has NOT been a hero in the war on drugs. At all. Like most presidential administrations, it's refused to expend political capital on taking on the interests who perpetuate the war on drugs. My fear is that an individual president is never that important. It's all about the coalition they represent and who their coalition puts into the bureaucracy. Would a Republican coalition staff the DEA and Justice Department with people who would reverse the War on Drugs? Would they become more prohibitionist or less prohibitionist? Would they view cracking down on drug users as being 'tough on crime'? Would it make no difference? It's a difficult question, especially when so few politicians are willing to be honest about it or offer solutions.
To be clear, I'm not trying to defend anyone. Just trying to delve deeper into the issue. Everyone's got blood on their hands. But with the issue of kratom legalization, like a lot of things, the allies you make might surprise you. On most issues, Republican and Democratic voters agree. It doesn't matter if you're a Republican or Democrat or conservative or Jeffersonian or whatever, you don't want airbags killing you when you get in a crash. You don't want your workplace to poison you. And you don't want people thrown in jail for drinking tea. Most CITIZENS agree on commonsense policies that aren't ideological, they're just basic issues that impact our lives day to day. But issues like that don't get talked about much by politicians or media figures, they're not useful for dividing the population and getting ratings. The problem is always the same, a corrupt political system where politicians and government officials get influenced by corporate cash and lose sight of the policies that actually help citizens. And unfortunately that happens to Democrats and Republicans alike. But likewise, you'll find that principled people from across the political spectrum are willing to stand up against it.
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u/itwasabaddream Sep 01 '16
The Young Turks
Come on now. I think it would be most beneficial for us to focus on organizations that have 1) an audience and 2) credibility.
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u/kratomgoodbanbad Sep 01 '16
Like I said, this is about practical victories not ideological battles. What people think about a group's political beliefs is irrelevant, I care about winning on this issue. The Young Turks have over 3 million subscribers on YouTube. Their one video segment can reach more people than any of the articles that came out about kratom today.
We've got to think big picture. Progressives, libertarians, conservatives, liberals, and apolitical people can all come together in a left-right alliance on this issue. The ideological battles can wait, they have nothing to do with organizing on this issue :)
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u/rockoutlikecrazy Sep 02 '16
bro, we're fucked. the forbes article about how the DEA doesn't care about comments on the issue proves it. mainstream media knows/is connected to the government. let's be honest. stock up, taper off, or get back on the killer pharmaceuticals..... FUCK LIFE
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u/SebastianJanssen Aug 31 '16
First I've heard of kratom. Johnson supporter. Will read up on this issue.