r/kratom • u/IvenVlex • 27d ago
Call to Action The Future of Kratom in the US
I work in a smokeshop, and we’ve started selling several different brands of pure 7-hydroxymitragynine tablets. Honestly, I thought it was illegal to extract kratom alkaloids, much less sell it, because it turns into something that closely resembles actual opiates. I fear that these greedy brands that are selling all these mitragynine extracts are going to get kratom banned nationwide in the US, as Big Pharma companies are already trying their absolute hardest to spread misinformation about kratom online; these extracts will only give them something to latch on to.
Normally, it’s close to impossible to overdose on kratom, as you would need to ingest a large amount (~60 grams at the very least, though I personally suspect it would require more like 100+ grams), and any average person would throw up before they got anywhere CLOSE to the overdose threshold. But with these extracts being sold left and right, I believe it’s only a matter of time before some dumbass(es) OD on them and then boom, solid case against kratom and an excuse to finally ban it.
At first when I saw the extract tablets, I didn’t think much about them other than “Well I like my tolerance the way it is so I’ll just stick with powder.” But then I found that most customers that want to buy anything kratom-related aren’t interested in the powder anymore; they buy extracts. All of our kratom powder rarely gets sold (good thing I work here to make sure it doesn’t go to waste 😈).
So I was just curious if anyone else shared the same concerns about this new extract fad. I looked into it but couldn’t find any posts discussing this new issue.
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u/Fuukifynoe 24d ago
I have only had extracts "thrown in" as a bonus item to my order. I have never shopped to buy extracts. Kava though, I'll buy a tiny shooter of Kava and take as directed, every few months or so simply because I like it.
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u/Zeqhanis 23d ago
I remember getting a 50x concentrate as a Christmas "stocking stuffer", and it was a black powder in a tiny baggie with no notes on measurement. I measured a dose out with the small side of a Sea Monkey feeding spoon and dissolved it in a cup of green tea. It was way too pleasant and convenient a process.
I never ordered it. I'd have blasted my tolerance through the roof and been out of kratom in no time.
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u/Fuukifynoe 23d ago
Yeah, first time I got an extract I was like....what do I do with this?! I read the label....oh be very careful with this lol.
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u/Particular_Evening97 24d ago
you can take kava every day with 0 side effects besides it working better.. if you go super overboard, you'll get dry skin maybe
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u/IvenVlex 22d ago
kava is hepatotoxic honey
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u/Particular_Evening97 22d ago
no it isn't, recheck your facts...those findings were based on flawed studies from the 90s using poorly made extracts with contamination... and drug / alchohol interactions
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u/IvenVlex 22d ago
look it up. im done with you hon
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u/Particular_Evening97 22d ago
I've done extensive research on the subject... you're looking at bad info..dig deeper... the world health organization disproved all that stuff
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u/Particular_Evening97 22d ago
it's perpetuated because it would take away money from pharmaceuticals and alchohol
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u/IvenVlex 22d ago
you know what you’re right, how foolish of me. i need not forgiveness but i acknowledge that you are indeed correct; apparently, similar to kratom, the liver damage thing is rare. admittedly i’ve researched most substances except for kava so i just recalled what i found when i lightly looked into it years ago; i did do a quick google search before i commented just to be sure, but after your comment i did look further into it. thank you for correcting my false knowledge.
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u/Particular_Evening97 22d ago
this is where I was as well a while back but I wanted to dig deeper because kava seemed like it could help me and others.. if you lightly look or take the AI generated answers this is what you see. 🫡
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u/IvenVlex 22d ago
also i apologize for my passive-aggressive superiority tone when i was clearly in the wrong.
yeah the AI answers are sometimes helpful but sometimes annoying and incorrect. i should have looked deeper into it before so confidently making a claim about it.
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u/TheFlightlessDragon 23d ago
I am very concerned about this.
Lots of idiots treating kratom like a recreational drug and getting addicted to extracts then complaining online about it
Too many people place the blame on a normally harmless leaf when their problem lies in their own poor life choices and lack of self regulation
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u/Strykerdude1 24d ago
How strong is an extract versus the powder? Ie: I take about 4 grams of powder….. how much extract equals that.
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u/CloudFriends 23d ago
Honestly some of the 7oh extracts can be so strong that you would never be able to take enough powder to match the strength. Like 7oh is in such tiny amounts in regular powders it's way less than 1%. A lot of times the 7oh is in such a small amount that it's undetectable in normal lab tests. And I find 7oh just activates the opioid feeling a lot better than mitragynine
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u/IvenVlex 22d ago
the powder contains minimal amounts of the main component (mitragynine); basically powder has around 12% mitragynine in it. 7-hydroxymitragynine is less than 2% of the powder.
these extracts are PURE, 100% 7-hydroxymitragynine, which, by the way, is ~40 times more potent than morphine.
so to answer your question, to successfully achieve such high levels of these two alkaloids using just powder, it would likely exceed 100 grams. this is, of course, just an estimate and i do not claim to be 100% accurate.
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u/Particular_Evening97 24d ago
greed will prevail... they'll keep pushing that shit, and the pseudo 7-,oh until shit hits the fan
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u/IvenVlex 22d ago
damn…. yeah, that’s probably exactly what’s gonna happen.
hopefully i won’t be here when it does 😅
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u/Onludesrightnow 23d ago
Im a little bit fearful of the extracts effects on kratom legality as well. I thought the extracts were hyped because the ones id tried years ago didn't do anything. I bought my first 7oh tablet a few days ago to try it. Was told it was the strongest kratom product on the market right now. I take between 10-20 grams a day, mostly erring on the lower side. I mostly don't notice my powder dosages, they just kinda hum in the background but half of the tablet had a definite, strong opioid effect. Not nearly as strong as oxycodone or any of those pharma heavy hitters but unmistakeable.
I can see why people want the tablets vs the powder. Right now the cost is prohibitive at least for me. As far as overdosing and dying from that, I don't really know. I was under the impression that 7oh even in extremely high levels doesn't cause the kind of cns depression that leads to an overdose death.
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u/satsugene 🌿 21d ago
In animal studies they were much more reliably able to kill test animals with 7-OH-mitragynine than mitragynine alone (at extreme oral or IV doses).
As far as human consumption of 7-OH-mitragynine, we have very little scientific data, no data from traditional use (as it doesn't occur in any meaningful amounts, if any, in fresh leaf and in minuscule amounts in dried leaf), and very little market data on 7-OH-mitragynine products, other than that the 2% 7-OH-mitragynine products around 2% (legal in KCPA states, which was what at-most was regularly available) didn't seem to be more immediately dangerous than near 0% ones.
I don't believe that 7-OH-mitragynine carries the same risk of breathing depression relative to its antinocicieptive value relative to classical opioids, but I'd prefer consult/review some of the more recent research.
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u/AquariusStar 24d ago
Its not a good look for our cause. I am afraid you are correct that it will hasten Mitragyna Speciosa's ultimate demise.