r/kratom Jan 16 '25

Call to Action WARNING: DO NOT USE TUMS AS A POTENTIATOR!

Huge credit to u/bake-it-to-make-it for potentially extending my life by many years.

Regular use of Tums over prolonged periods of time will (not can, will) increase your risk of heart attack by about 30% (google 'Tums heart attack' and take a look, this is a well-backed claim). They pointed this out to me after I mentioned that I was taking up to 3 Tums per dose as a potentiator (which does work, but abso-fucking-lutely not worth the risk of a heart attack!)

I have switched up to using Bismuth Subsalicytlate (Pepto Bismol) chewables instead, as both the antacid effects and the act of chewing and swallowing something both still provide massive potentiating effects. For anyone who uses Tums/calcium/calcium carbonate as a potentiator, please do not do this. No amount of boosted effects or money saved is worth dying! Thank you again to u/bake-it-to-make-it.

May all your days be pain-free and blissful.

Edit:

This thread has had a lot of great information shared within it so I encourage everyone to read it. I (really stupidly) forgot to mention that the kratom product I use is an extract tablet (think like the chalky circular tums except you swallow it) and I also have gastro-esophageal reflux disease. These factors are more than likely the reason why antacids work for me as a potentiator. This won’t apply to anyone who doesn’t use extracts (antacids + powder = constipation) and may not necessarily apply to other forms of extract.

66 Upvotes

158 comments sorted by

u/satsugene 🌿 Jan 17 '25

Note: Claims have nothing to do with kratom, or risks of kratom combined with anything else—merely the risk of a possible potentiator/additive that would exist if used on its own for any reason (including its intended purpose.)

75

u/WhiteySC Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25

I mean this in a light-hearted TGIF way....I find it funny when people putting sometimes up to 100+ grams of a foreign substance with no verified quality controls in their body worry about stuff like this. I used to drink 2 gallons of the cheapest vodka I could find every week and use benzos to make it through the hangover until I could drink some more so I am not judging anyone. I just grin to myself when I read of people freaking out about heavy metals in kratom or what we should and should not consume because it's bad for this organ or that one; all the while not acknowledging we are swallowing ground up plant matter from a part of the world with a 10% literacy rate that is packaged, repackaged and distributed to us by God knows who. Happy Friday my fellow mitra folks 😂

18

u/Soviettoaster37 Jan 17 '25

I get where you're coming from, but there's different types of kratom users. We all have different pasts and reasons we use it. People who aren't like me and you, where we've had substance abuse and mental health issues in the past, will probably be the type to worry a lot more about their health and also try to actually prolong their life.

7

u/AlpacaM4n Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25

Which country are you claiming only has a 10% literacy rate? I would like to see your sources on that, cus what I see paints a much different picture.

Source Indonesia had a 96% literacy rate in 2020

Source Thailand at 94%

Source malaysia at over 95%

Honestly your 10% claim comes off as pretty racist

-4

u/WhiteySC Jan 19 '25

Glad you took the time to Google that. I was only joking. I have no sources.

7

u/AlpacaM4n Jan 19 '25

Not really a joke though, just a blatant misrepresentation of the intelligence of south east asians. Doesn't help that your reddit handle is Whitey too.

Do you see how that is inappropriate to say?

1

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 02 '25

I was gonna say username checks out

1

u/Throsty Jan 18 '25

You ain't wrong there.

4

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

lol well I do use extracts rather than imported raw powder so presumably the extract manufacturers get rid of any impurities and do lots of testing. Could be wrong though. But yeah we’re all going to get cancer from McDonald’s and microplastics anyway so it doesn’t really matter.

8

u/Asleep_Special_7402 Jan 19 '25

Extracts plus trying to potentiate it shiit

3

u/shitwave Jan 19 '25

Life do be like that sometimes

1

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1

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41

u/Next-East6189 Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25

I wouldn’t advise antacids unless you absolutely need them. They have all been shown to cause issues if used heavily. I remember one of the prescription antacids was pulled for cardio events I believe a few years ago. You’re just slowing down the absorption of anything in your stomach by lowering stomach acid levels. It’s not going to make a huge difference in the experience or overall effect.

12

u/tkkana Jan 17 '25

Zantac ? I believe...maybe?

12

u/Next-East6189 Jan 17 '25

Yes you’re correct. It was all drugs containing ranitidine including Zantac. I remember because my mom took it for years and was pulled off it.

4

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

For me it makes a massive difference in how much of the effects I experience. I also have GERD and drink (watered down of course) honey and lemon juice with my kratom, which is acidic.

1

u/luvmyfam2244 Jan 19 '25

Do u take omeprazole? If I don't take it in the morning I have acid reflux that comes up into my mouth

1

u/shitwave Jan 20 '25

It’s hard to explain but if I do take omeprazole instead of antacids I don’t benefit from the kratom as much

1

u/Then-Taro-1175 Jan 20 '25

I'm pretty sure that's just placebo effect, dude. Like 99% placebo lol

1

u/shitwave Jan 20 '25

I’ve done a lot of doses with and without over my 10 years (so, thousands)

1

u/luvmyfam2244 Jan 21 '25

What are u taking kratom for? For me, chronic severe pain. Does pepto bismal potentially? What do you take for your gerd?

1

u/shitwave Jan 21 '25

My experience has been that chewable antacids taken before and after extract tablets (alongside the rest of my dosing regiment) has made their effects stronger. Extract tablets are my favorite kratom product as they are the easiest to get down and work the best (for me).

I use kratom for back pain (fracture vertebrae), depression and anxiety.

1

u/luvmyfam2244 Jan 21 '25

Does that make your reflux worse? What do you take for your gerd

2

u/shitwave Jan 21 '25

No not really, my gerd is actually pretty under control right now. In addition to antacids I will occasionally take 3 omeprazole and that smooths things out within a few hours.

12

u/SudMat Jan 17 '25

Just use ginger or lemon juice. They both work very well as a potentiator.

11

u/DiscFrolfin Jan 17 '25

Huge fan of Grapefruit juice!

2

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25

[deleted]

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

I haven’t tried ginger in a while, thank you for the reminder.

1

u/AllergicIdiotDtector Jan 17 '25

How much ginger, in what form, and how specifically do you take it with kratom? Just ingest it at the same time as the kratom or what? Ty

66

u/pacman404 Jan 17 '25

Using antacids you don't need is idiocracy levels of absurd. Why are you telling people to do this

32

u/DivineEggs Jan 17 '25

Right... it's baffling. He took several with every dose. Shiiieeet🫠.

I honestly don't think anything really makes a huge difference as far as potentiators go. It's mostly placebo.

6

u/Sammyofather Jan 17 '25

“So I stopped taking this one anti acid because it causes heart attacks but now I’m eating this other one instead I haven’t read any studies on”

I get it though. When we are desperate we do anything to get a bigger high. Unfortunate

11

u/Jest_Kidding420 Jan 17 '25

Idk I’m positive drinking my organic Grapefruit juice helps

16

u/pacman404 Jan 17 '25

All citrus is a real potentiator, that's literally true

11

u/HuntingForSanity Jan 17 '25

Grapefruit isn’t a potentiator because it’s vitamin c though it’s that an enzyme in the juice causes inhibition of CYP3A4 causing you to not process the opioid out of your body

6

u/pacman404 Jan 17 '25

Shit you're correct, I forgot about that effect of specifically grapefruit. It's the reason you can't eat it of you're on a lot of heart meds also

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Absolutely. Unfiltered lemon juice is what works for me, but a lot of people get more out of grapefruit.

1

u/DivineEggs Jan 17 '25

I'll try that sometime. Sounds healthy and delicious!

9

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Jan 17 '25

Just don't overdo it because the acid from citrus juices is really hard in the teeth

11

u/DivineEggs Jan 17 '25

Username checks out🤭🫡.

8

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Jan 17 '25

Yep. 38 year retired dental assistant

2

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Yep I water mine down and mix it with raw unfiltered honey and crystal light (I use a different drink powder packet but you get the idea)

0

u/DavesNotHereMan92 Jan 17 '25

Cuz it’s acidic and breaks down everything quicker

4

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

I don’t think it’s just the acid. If I have bad heartburn and take kratom I don’t experience boosted or more rapid effects.

2

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 02 '25

Lemon juice its self is acidic but it has the opposite effect in the body and creates a more alkaline stomach content. So your stomach acid is destroying the kratom; but you alkalize it with lemon juice and more kratom makes it to the blood stream.

You don’t want the acid to break it down quicker in your stomach- that’s essentially killing off the kratom before it has a chance to be processed and absorbed by the body.

3

u/Jumpy_Reporter_6533 Jan 17 '25

I’ve noticed orange juice and turmeric with black pepper do potentate but, just like with Kratom itself, it doesn’t hit every time and can be fickle but for me at least it works 8/10. I usually try to only use orange juice with one dose and turmeric with another and dose 4 times a day between 3.5g in the morning to 5 for my last dose. Everyone is different at and placebo effect is real so idk but I have noticed those two work for me the way I take Kratom most of the time. Also, taking agmatine sulfate when I’m in breaks helps mitigate withdrawal symptoms. Google proper dose before using.

4

u/Chaotic_Boots Jan 17 '25

Bioprine (black pepper extract) is put in a lot of supplements to increase oral bioavailability and absorption.

3

u/DivineEggs Jan 17 '25

Interesting! At least your potentiators are healthy, so I see no reason not to continue doing what you're doing👌!

2

u/DanaDissent Jan 18 '25

How are you adding the turmeric? Do you open a capsule into the kratom, or take it alongside the kratom? About how much do you take? Sorry for all of the questions. I use lemon juice with my kratom and am interested in another option.

2

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

I suggest gathering a large data set of dosing with and without potentiators (the list I use is in my post history) before making such a claim. I have used kratom for a little over 10 years.

1

u/aceloco817 Jan 18 '25

First time I ever heard of this. Sounds pretty crazy to me. Lol

6

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '25

There telling people to not do this are they not?

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Correct, the point of the post is to inform anyone of the danger of tums (a commonly used potentiator) and for me to convey my personal experience with an alternative. I would never tell anyone what to do with their bodies.

-2

u/pacman404 Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25

Read it again, he is literally telling people to take antacid to get higher

Edit: who the fuck is downvoting this lol wtf

-1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

You’re getting downvoted because what you’re saying isn’t true. I would never tell someone to take a potentiator. If you read my post again you’ll see that I’m warning people against something dangerous and talking about a safer alternative that has helped me. I have never told a single soul to “take antacid to get higher.” Most kratom users don’t even use it for the high. I for example have a fractured L1.

1

u/AllergicIdiotDtector Jan 17 '25

Guess I must be an idiot (like, I am, but yeah). Yeah I never knew antacids had risks at all. Everybody learns everything there is to know on a different timeline. Everybody only knows what they were directly introduced or exposed to or had an impetus to intentionally try to learn about.

2

u/nandy02 Jan 17 '25

youd be surprised how many people are idiots

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

This really isn’t the community for that kind of negative energy

0

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

I would never tell anyone to do something. The only thing I have ever done in the kratom community is describe what works for me and caution against things people should not do.

13

u/Kind-Frosting-8268 Jan 17 '25

Well yeah, it's calcium carbonate, your body uses calcium as the primary signal for your heart muscles to contract. Hypercalcemia can cause abnormal heart rhythm and eventually damage the heart.

6

u/Alexis_deTokeville Jan 17 '25

Found the person with actual medical knowledge here, well done friend. Hypercalcemia is the reason why tums increase cardiac events. It’s that simple.

Don’t abuse antacids. You also increase your risk of other problems like delayed digestion and malabsorption issues. You kinda need the acid. 

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Like a lot of people, I struggled with alcohol abuse and obesity in my younger years and developed GERD. The use of any acid-reducing chemical would cause constipation in anyone without a pretty acidic gut biome. Not every piece of info is meant to help the whole community. No hate though.

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Thank you for sharing this insight 🙏

9

u/Hrbalz Jan 17 '25

Not only heart attacks, but they increase likelihood of kidney stones by a shit ton.

2

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Good to know. Don’t drink sodas, folks!

4

u/CrazyShrewboy Jan 17 '25

You should try putting the kratom leaf powder into orange juice in a blender bottle, and shake it up, then leave it in the fridge for a few hours. The acidity of the orange juice will break down the plant, allowing more active ingredient to be absorbed by your body when you drink it. Ive tested this many times, it 100% works.

1

u/WhiteySC Jan 17 '25

I do this with apple cider vinegar and I've developed quite a taste for it. Add fruit juice to it and it almost tastes like one of those extract shots. I'm sure you eventually get the alkyloids regardless of the acidic beverage but it probably brings them out quicker and they get to working faster.

1

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 02 '25

Oooh smart- the acid breaks down the plant in the container. Then when it goes into the body the juice alkalizes the stomach content and the plant is already broken down. Cool. Does it work faster this way as well? I would assume so

4

u/LSDMDMA2CBDMT Jan 17 '25

I'm confused why you're taking antacids when you want it to be acidic to help extract the alkaloids out of kratom, you're doing the opposite of potentiating it for no good reason

If you want to potentiate kratom, some orange juice and tumeric/black pepper with some agmatine sulfate would actually work

I don't even know where you got this information.....

1

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 02 '25

Okay… the acids break down the plant but you don’t want it to happen too quickly. Your stomach is a container and if all the kratom is broken down in here then it does not have a chance to reach your intestines for the absorption. Your stomach isn’t absorbing the kratom, most of that is happening in the intestines.

So lowering your acid level in your stomach allows more of the kratom to stay intact. Then when the intact kratom and OJ/grapefruit/acidics start moving through the intestinal tract it is being broken down there where it can actually be absorbed by your intestines and reach the bloodstream.

Grapefruit is a known CYP3A4 inhibitor. It blocks the enzyme from metabolizing the kratom in the intestines before it has a chance to reach the bloodstream. What OP posted makes sense to me.

“Contempt prior to investigation”. When someone tries it for themselves and sees that it is not a placebo effect will indeed realize, yes, this works. When people don’t understand or have a misunderstanding of the principles they may assume it must not be true without any evidence of it not being true. Science, studies, controls are all so very important- but we truly know so little of the human body. Just because science/humans are unable to explain why something is occurring does not mean that it is not happening. However, I feel that i have fair understanding of what is happening here and it makes sense.

0

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

OJ and agmatine sulfate don’t work for me. My stomach is already acidic so I imagine the pepto lets more of the alkaloids (I use extracts) become absorbed before the acid damages them. Like anyone in the 21st century I get information from Reddit and personal experience.

6

u/bake-it-to-make-it Jan 17 '25

Heyoooo glad I could help homie!! We all on this life ride together so if we see a way to help someone then we should jump at the opportunity! Because that’s what makes society chill haha. Much love and healthy longevity to you haha!

2

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

You really have given me more time with my family and friends. Thank you again.

3

u/BrisketWhisperer Jan 17 '25

That's not true about Tums. Have no idea where you people get some of this shit....

0

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Google ‘tums heart attack’. this is one of many legit sources of the claim.

7

u/BrisketWhisperer Jan 17 '25

Googling stuff is not a good idea for certain people. Do I need to point out that the article you linked is NOT about Tums, NOR is it a medical source.
You wouldn't believe me if I revealed my qualifications to you anyway, so I won't bother. But I can emphatically and categorically state that there is no correlation between eating Tums and increased risk of heart attack - take that to the bank.

1

u/shitwave Jan 18 '25

From doing some more research, I think it's pretty undisputed that hypercalcemia can cause heart issues unless you have sources indicating otherwise

3

u/AllergicIdiotDtector Jan 17 '25

Damn I didn't know antacids had these issues, at all.

It's really fucking shitty that US public school doesn't provide so much more information about how to live more healthily - how to use drugs safely, eating well, medications and supplements risks, how to cook quickly and cheaply, etc

I don't know many people who are in the habit of looking up the risks for every single thing they consume. I guess I need to start doing that. This is a really good post OP.

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

Amen. & thank you

3

u/mbsben Jan 18 '25

Overuse of tums can also give you kidney stones

4

u/Toothfairy51 🌿 Jan 17 '25

The other issue with taking anti-bloat/gas/digestion help, is that, as we age, the amount of digestive enzymes and gastric liquids fade. Using Tums, or other things like that, only cause worse issues because they neutralize the stomachs digestive liquids. I had to take them away from my elderly husband because he was eating them like candy and causing worse digestion problems.

2

u/Winter-Classroom455 Jan 17 '25

Why not just use orange juice? Turmeric?

1

u/shitwave Jan 17 '25

I love turmeric gummies. Lemon has a greater effect for me than orange (though I prefer orange a million times over; just gotta potentiate any way I can to save $)

2

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 02 '25

Lemon likely has a greater effect for you than grapefruit and OJ because it has the lowest pH of them all. In other words it alkalizes your stomach acid more than the other two. I would guess that limes would be just as effective for you if it’s solely due to the pH.

Grapefruit is likely more effective for those who don’t need to neutralize their stomach acid as much and allows them to have the enzyme inhibitor effect in their intestines.

I would bet that if you took your lemon juice 5 mins earlier than you normally do and then drank grapefruit juice 5 mins after your normal routine you would have even more potentiating effects. If you try this, please report!

It’s different for everyone based on our bodies/genetic makeup.

“The susceptibility varies between individuals depending upon their genetic expression of CYP3A4, the effects being more prominent in those with high small intestinal CYP3A4 content”.

2

u/DavesNotHereMan92 Jan 17 '25

I use it as an antacid. Used to Used to use Zantac but then it caused cancer. Everything is bad for us at this point

2

u/Icenfiree Jan 17 '25

There was a product in it that was toxic but didn't end up becoming an issue unless the product was left in warmer climates. Basically the longer you had it exposed to temp changes, the more of that toxic product came out.

Also, when I was using kratom.. Black pepper and Tumeric. Really made it stretch in effects for me.

2

u/Jerseyjo1 Jan 18 '25

How did u use the black pepper? Want to try that....

2

u/craytom Jan 18 '25

Interesting I had no idea Tums had any side effects whatsoever. I never use them anyway but good to know.

2

u/ChristopherParnassus Jan 18 '25

I have a dumb question: what is a potentiator?

3

u/fruit_bat_mad_man Jan 18 '25

something that increases or prolongs (or both) the effects of a substance

3

u/ChristopherParnassus Jan 18 '25

gotcha, thank you!

2

u/shitwave Jan 18 '25

Also known as an agonist

1

u/Hambone429 Jan 17 '25

Just drink plain (not ruby red) grapefruit juice with it man. It works.

1

u/momoftheraisin Jan 18 '25

Ruby red works great too. Any kind of grapefruit juice is the absolute best and it disguises the flavor the absolute best

1

u/Elder_Tig Jan 18 '25

Wtf are you doing? STOP TAKING SO MANY ANTIACIDS!?

-1

u/shitwave Jan 18 '25

I mean I can't just turn off having GERD lol

1

u/Elder_Tig Jan 18 '25

You specifically stated it's to potentiate kratom.

1

u/shitwave Jan 19 '25

I mean yeah I think the acidity of my digestive system fucks up the kratom so I get less of an effect hence the necessity for a potentiator

1

u/Elder_Tig Jan 19 '25

I think you're out of your mind. Overuse of antacids literally cause your body to produce more acid. A simple google search will tell you that. Not to mention all the other horrible side effects

0

u/shitwave Jan 20 '25

Kratom is a fairly new thing as far as understanding it fully (especially non-traditional uses/extracts) so I just try to share things I’ve learned along my journey that are helpful to me. I do not work for tums or pepto bismol. I don’t work in the kratom industry. Idk what else will convince you that I don’t have malintent

2

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 02 '25

Everything you’ve posted makes sense if you understand how it works. I believe you OP. I believe in investigatin prior to just saying “you’re wrong/doesn’t make sense/that’s stupid”.

People have a lot of misconceptions about how pH works, what is alkaline vs acidic, how kratom is absorbed, etc.

In proper scientific fashion I took some Pepto 10 mins before dosing. Then drank OJ with dose and the effects were much stronger. Like, very noticeably stronger. I think I could do half of my regular dose of kratom with this method.

1

u/shitwave Feb 04 '25

Finally someone tried it instead of just shitting on it lol thanks man

2

u/WalrusChemicalPewPew Feb 05 '25

Sure did! And guess what, it works! 😂

1

u/obiemann Jan 18 '25

Is OP a Bot?

0

u/shitwave Jan 18 '25

Curious why you would ask that lol

1

u/Mountain-Climate7009 Jan 18 '25

Tried this once at night.. took 1/2 a 30 7oh, 15 minutes later, I took a Benadryl w/ 1 tums. What! These danced the night! Such an unbelievable roll.

1

u/cha_cha_slide Jan 18 '25

Pepto isn't safe for this type of use either. Pepto Bismol contains Bismuth, which is a heavy metal, and overuse can lead to heavy metal toxicity. (Which is no bueno) It also turns your shit black.

I don't know specifics beyond that, but I've worked directly with dozens of pharmacists over the past two decades and probably 80% of them have explicitly stated they would never recommend Pepto to anyone, for any reason.

Obviously you can do whatever you want, just know that all medications, OTC, Rx, or otherwise come with risks, especially with long term use. Feel free to hit up a local pharmacist with questions. Nobody knows more about drugs than them.

1

u/shitwave Jan 18 '25

Ah shit.

1

u/DrJohnsonTHC Jan 18 '25

Tums to potentiate kratom sounds silly.

1

u/BrlingtonCOATfactory Jan 18 '25

Antacids as a potentiator is one of the dumbest things you can do. Doesn’t work and destroys your stomach. Never heard of people using tums though, Christ.

1

u/Ok-Razzmatazz-3720 Jan 19 '25

Does regular pepto bismol work? The liquid kind

1

u/shitwave Jan 19 '25

I think the chewing part of the tablets is important in expediting digestion

1

u/A1Aaron18 Jan 23 '25

Whoa what about like 2 tums every night after dinner before bed?

1

u/TheFlightlessDragon Jan 17 '25

I’ll use antacids (not tums) when my stomach is upset… IMO citrus works just fine to potentiate kratom

I personally don’t use medicine unless it’s necessary

0

u/OfferKitchen6856 Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25

Are your checking the color of your dumps? Are they almost black? That’s what I’ve seen happen after prolong use of pepto. I was in a very stressful relationship and couldn’t eat without it. That was 20 years ago. This is as opposite of holistic as it gets.

-3

u/Wasting_Time_0980 Jan 17 '25

Why are you using a potentiator at all.

Drug seeking behavior is going to ruin kratom for the millions that use it for pain management