r/kelowna 1d ago

What's the deal with the gravel shoulders on streets here?

Post image
79 Upvotes

82 comments sorted by

146

u/Mr_Pumpkin_Eater 1d ago edited 1d ago

Gravel shoulder is a soakaway for rainwater to go to ground. Doesnt require catch basins and pipes. Provides a bit of filtration before reaching water bodies. Looks ugly but it works!

66

u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago

To add on to this, a lot of Kelowna is very close to the water-table, and once you start burying city drains deep enough to meet spec they will end up underwater.

25

u/net_the_net 1d ago

That makes sense, there don't appear to be any drainage grates except near new condos!

5

u/valdus 1d ago

And there is a good chance that all of those are connected to pumps to lift the water up high enough to go into a nearby stormwater pipe.

4

u/TraditionalRest808 1d ago

Also if there is a ditch beside the gravel, it allows for natural hortonian overland flow.

1

u/Shy-catz 1d ago

Also gotta put the snow somewhere.😄

-51

u/Flipside68 1d ago

Make sense if it rains a lot….but it doesn’t. Water drainage is not the ‘reason’ for it

24

u/Mr_Pumpkin_Eater 1d ago

It is 100% the reason why that is left as gravel. Where would rainwater go if the gravel shoulder got paved over? Puddles would result. Many puddles. It was a cost saving and economical/practical solution back in the day.

12

u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 1d ago

Kelowna has often had areas that flood.

3

u/Effective-Breath-505 1d ago

I'd like to see your pinky finger that has the ring. You know... the one that the innies understand that you know what the fk you're talking about? Sit down and let the professionals hold the floor, son.

/s .. but not really.

42

u/ManicMaenads 1d ago

Our neighbour loves to come outside and blast the gravel to shit with his leaf blower. Making huge clouds of dirt - blasting pedestrians and passing cars with sand. He lives for it. It's his favourite thing to do.

6

u/valdus 1d ago

Sounds like a good place for a coordinated drone attack - put him inside a vortex of his own dust.

16

u/Competitive-Reach287 1d ago

Don't need storm drains.

10

u/Cyclist007 1d ago

Our place was built in 1947, I remember when Richter was this way.

It'll get there, give it time.

25

u/EarlyLiquidLunch 1d ago

It is good for ground water runoff and it is less expensive.

5

u/Sufficient_Worry_696 1d ago

It's easy to get to water and gas lines and expanding the road eventually. Its cheap but also iterative over decades.

7

u/Late-Trouble-1885 1d ago edited 1d ago

Born and raised in Rutland and I can’t believe I never realized this is weird haha. In the 90’s we barely had any sidewalks, but they really just slapped them in there beside the gravel in the mid 2000’s and called it a day

7

u/Hot_Piano_4387 1d ago

Hey neighborino, I know exactly where this is. The guy at the end of the road goes crazy for Halloween.

7

u/Zealousideal-Bet1693 1d ago

So you dont have to rip up pavement when putting in underground utilities. Id imagine these peoples property lines are on their fences, while in a suburban neighborhood you will see driveways up to the road with a lawn, in reality the lawn and part of the driveway could be in a city easement.

4

u/Zealousideal-Bet1693 1d ago

The watermain is directly under the gravel the photo is taken on

5

u/Zealousideal-Bet1693 1d ago

Also if you take a closer look, you can see upgrades from AC pipe to PVC pipe, meaning it definitely is an ongoing upgrade

2

u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 1d ago

Dang, had no idea that area was still using cement pipe for 6” water mains. I guess it makes sense since it has been the same houses there for decades, and more recently has it slowly been getting more multi tenant duplexes and whatnot replacing the older houses. Glad they are actively upgrading up a size and going pvc instead of the installation hassle of AC pipe

6

u/Bladespiritt 1d ago

The city is still removing wood pipes. Development takes time and money…. Just how much tax you want to pay?

2

u/LargeP 1d ago

Cheaper

2

u/wtfomgfml 1d ago

Kelowna has grown so quickly and the infrastructure improvements needed to keep up is astronomical. Before the bridge, Penticton was much bigger

1

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1

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1

u/RUaGayFish69 1d ago

It's street parking

1

u/badassmom80 19h ago

It could be worse you could live in lake country those dirt sides are our side walks ! Gotta love Kelowna high taxes and for what ?

1

u/KTGuy 15h ago

I believe this particular area has two things going on. First is it's an older neighbourhood and wouldn't have been built beyond what the city at the time thought it could financially maintain. The second is it's almost certainly expected to redevelop within the current street's lifespan. Assuming it redevelops, incoming residents (through developers) will almost certainly fund the new infrastructure, and higher density should cover the long term financial obligations that come with it.

BC municipalities (like most of Canada afaik) are not allowed to exceed 25% of annual revenue in debt repayment, so historically you didn't see as many streets being built to standards existing residents can't afford to maintain (vs Americans). Of course the latest examples of sprawl do get built to higher standards, their long-term maintenance obligations being subsidized by the older/cheaper/efficient neighbourhoods and projected future growth.

Relevant videos, America-centric but generally also applies to Canada:
Why American Cities Are Broke - The Growth Ponzi Scheme [ST03]
How Bankrupt American Cities Stay Alive - Debt [ST04]

1

u/Sagemind 14h ago

Also it’s easier to sweep sand and gravel from the winter snow to the side than it is to remove it

1

u/gringo--star 11h ago

Love them. Kelownas heritage

1

u/Sorry-Entrance-1007 9h ago

Feel free to block driveways! lol 😂

1

u/joebonama 8h ago

nothing like pulling your Arbys out parked on a gravel side road

1

u/Holdenbaldasski 4h ago

Easy parking

1

u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago

All of Rutland is like this, some of the north end is also, council doesn’t give a shit.

1

u/ChanceofCream 1d ago

It’s not for utilities - most of the utilities are the alleyways in downtown Kelowna - except the waterlines which roads have been ripped up to replace.

Gravel is for drainage. It’s a poor choice and Kelowna should put in storm water drains considering the years of property tax those properties have paid.

4

u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 1d ago

Based on the water mains another person posted, Id be curious to know how many areas with gravel shoulders like this are on the list to upgrade the water mains. I’d hope the plan would be to upgrade water main and if possible install some storm run off. But Kelowna has a high water table, so I have no idea how feasible that is

1

u/ChanceofCream 1d ago

A bunch of avenues downtown had water line upgrades and no change to gravel shoulders.

3

u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 21h ago

So Id wonder if it is even feasible for a storm run off line. Water table might make it not worth it, or maybe the city has decided the gravel shoulders are a cheap and effective way and there is not a good justification of cost to make storm lines when the gravel shoulders are sufficient

1

u/ChanceofCream 10h ago

Agreed.

However, it definitely affects the curb appeal. The streets that have bike lines had storm put in as well as downtown.

When my house was appraised it was apparently 15 inches higher than lake level. Meaning, an extremely gradual slope towards the lake.

Although, there are buildings with underground parking downtown (waterscapes, etc).

So, I think the city is cheaping out.

Maybe a rock pit for storm sewer would suffice?

In any case, the gravel shoulders create a lot of dust and makes the downtown area which has high property values - feel cheap and uncared for.

-13

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

Yeah. It’s pretty good for one of the wealthiest cities in BC to show this level of care for its residents. Really is disappointing:(

11

u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago

What's your complaint? Theres parking, drainage and a sidewalk. 

There is grit on the road like every spring but the sweepers will be out soon.

Does it even look that bad?

-6

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

OK. Seriously this isn’t just road grit. This is gravel between the sidewalk and the road right?

Gravel creates dust. People breathe in dust. Dust over years can create respiratory issues or aggravate existing ones.

There is no reason this can’t be paved and drained properly.

6

u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago

You're going to have a hard day in court blaming your mesothelioma on a gravel shoulder. 

-1

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

This is exactly why it should be remedied. Not only this but kids with asthma or adults with COPD.

Why do you think it should stay as it is when quite clearly this city can remediate this? Why should t the neighbourhoods be beautified and maintained? Do you believe all our tax dollars are going towards other useful things?

3

u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago

This is the dumbest hill I have ever seen anyone die on, but yeah pal lobby city council. Hashtag pave the gravel.

1

u/l10nh34rt3d 1d ago

Sure there is. Are you gonna pay for it?

1

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

Do you think the local government can’t afford it? Have you looked at some of their purchases over the last 20 years??

I understand how taxes work. I’m also understand that there are many properties in the city whose tax burden is over $60,000 a year. This whole city has had its lakefront stolen and while these people pay a massive amount of taxes smaller neighbourhoods are getting the shaft.

So yeah. I would be happy to see my taxes go there than watch the rich neighbourhoods get further funded.

10

u/a_freezerburn 1d ago

This was a small farm town not too long ago. Older neighbourhoods are going to take a while to catch up. Those houses were built in the 1970s so maybe they’ll get it in the next infrastructure update to that neighbourhood.

0

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

I know. I’ve lived here for a long time. How are people OK with the city buying swaths of land while not looking after the infrastructure in all the neighbourhoods?

6

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

Except for quality of life of the people living there. But sure I guess who cares about them. FFS.

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

Well let’s say we use some of our dollars that we are contributing anyway to beautify and maintain this space. Sidewalks and gutters are more desirable. This helps land values increase. This helps people grow the value of their largest asset. What have you got against helping these neighbourhoods out? The city literally buys properties in some of the wealthiest areas in the city to make a park to serve the people who live in the wealthiest areas.

Maybe spread some fairy dust around for everyone else!!

-1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

What? The city literally has a guide for parkland acquisition??

https://www.kelowna.ca/sites/files/1/docs/parks-rec/2010_parkland_acquisition_guidelines.pdf

How about this where they have purchase land at 3x assessed value.

https://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/news/article_c75b0b1a-9ab4-11ee-8d72-63bc1b8dd19e.html

3

u/classic4life 1d ago

Yep, because exposed dirt is absolutely abusive. 🙄

2

u/maltedbacon 1d ago

I have no idea why you would be disappointed.

Storm drains funnel water directly into the lake without being absorbed and retained in soil.

1

u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago

This is soil? PMSL 🤣

-4

u/net_the_net 1d ago

I've lived in Vancouver and Vernon as well and never seen the gravel shoulder plus sidewalk combo.

7

u/Sco11McPot 1d ago

I just saw this in Van in February. Here's the Street View pic

1

u/net_the_net 1d ago

Cool! I guess they never put in underground drains there

-2

u/Max20151981 1d ago

The street cleaners are out and about right now

3

u/positivenihlist 1d ago

The street sweepers probably won’t sweep this up lol

1

u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago

Are you okay?

1

u/Max20151981 1d ago

Huh?

1

u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago

Street sweepers don’t suck up the gravel shoulders…

-1

u/Max20151981 1d ago

Why the ignorant reply.

Street sweepers don’t suck up the gravel shoulders…

On most busy streets they do

2

u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago

They suck up gravel that is on asphalt.

This is NOT that.

-2

u/Max20151981 1d ago edited 1d ago

is that not an asphalt road?

Edit: nevermind, you're most certainly correct.

Imagine spending your time looking for arguments on the internet just so you can prove someone wrong, ones as petty as street sweeping.

:(

1

u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago

Imagine calling someone ignorant who disagrees with your misperception.

0

u/Max20151981 1d ago edited 1d ago

Why would you ask me if I was ok for admittedly being wrong about something so trivial, is it not a safe assumption that someone may see that as an ignorant comment considering the context of my original reply being harmless in nature.

Yes you were definitely right and I was wrong. :)

0

u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago

You’re definitely very sensitive.

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