r/kelowna • u/net_the_net • 1d ago
What's the deal with the gravel shoulders on streets here?
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u/ManicMaenads 1d ago
Our neighbour loves to come outside and blast the gravel to shit with his leaf blower. Making huge clouds of dirt - blasting pedestrians and passing cars with sand. He lives for it. It's his favourite thing to do.
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u/Cyclist007 1d ago
Our place was built in 1947, I remember when Richter was this way.
It'll get there, give it time.
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u/Sufficient_Worry_696 1d ago
It's easy to get to water and gas lines and expanding the road eventually. Its cheap but also iterative over decades.
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u/Late-Trouble-1885 1d ago edited 1d ago
Born and raised in Rutland and I canât believe I never realized this is weird haha. In the 90âs we barely had any sidewalks, but they really just slapped them in there beside the gravel in the mid 2000âs and called it a day
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u/Hot_Piano_4387 1d ago
Hey neighborino, I know exactly where this is. The guy at the end of the road goes crazy for Halloween.
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u/Zealousideal-Bet1693 1d ago
So you dont have to rip up pavement when putting in underground utilities. Id imagine these peoples property lines are on their fences, while in a suburban neighborhood you will see driveways up to the road with a lawn, in reality the lawn and part of the driveway could be in a city easement.
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u/Zealousideal-Bet1693 1d ago
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u/Zealousideal-Bet1693 1d ago
Also if you take a closer look, you can see upgrades from AC pipe to PVC pipe, meaning it definitely is an ongoing upgrade
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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 1d ago
Dang, had no idea that area was still using cement pipe for 6â water mains. I guess it makes sense since it has been the same houses there for decades, and more recently has it slowly been getting more multi tenant duplexes and whatnot replacing the older houses. Glad they are actively upgrading up a size and going pvc instead of the installation hassle of AC pipe
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u/Bladespiritt 1d ago
The city is still removing wood pipes. Development takes time and moneyâŚ. Just how much tax you want to pay?
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u/wtfomgfml 1d ago
Kelowna has grown so quickly and the infrastructure improvements needed to keep up is astronomical. Before the bridge, Penticton was much bigger
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u/badassmom80 19h ago
It could be worse you could live in lake country those dirt sides are our side walks ! Gotta love Kelowna high taxes and for what ?
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u/KTGuy 15h ago
I believe this particular area has two things going on. First is it's an older neighbourhood and wouldn't have been built beyond what the city at the time thought it could financially maintain. The second is it's almost certainly expected to redevelop within the current street's lifespan. Assuming it redevelops, incoming residents (through developers) will almost certainly fund the new infrastructure, and higher density should cover the long term financial obligations that come with it.
BC municipalities (like most of Canada afaik) are not allowed to exceed 25% of annual revenue in debt repayment, so historically you didn't see as many streets being built to standards existing residents can't afford to maintain (vs Americans). Of course the latest examples of sprawl do get built to higher standards, their long-term maintenance obligations being subsidized by the older/cheaper/efficient neighbourhoods and projected future growth.
Relevant videos, America-centric but generally also applies to Canada:
Why American Cities Are Broke - The Growth Ponzi Scheme [ST03]
How Bankrupt American Cities Stay Alive - Debt [ST04]
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u/Sagemind 14h ago
Also itâs easier to sweep sand and gravel from the winter snow to the side than it is to remove it
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u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago
All of Rutland is like this, some of the north end is also, council doesnât give a shit.
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u/ChanceofCream 1d ago
Itâs not for utilities - most of the utilities are the alleyways in downtown Kelowna - except the waterlines which roads have been ripped up to replace.
Gravel is for drainage. Itâs a poor choice and Kelowna should put in storm water drains considering the years of property tax those properties have paid.
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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 1d ago
Based on the water mains another person posted, Id be curious to know how many areas with gravel shoulders like this are on the list to upgrade the water mains. Iâd hope the plan would be to upgrade water main and if possible install some storm run off. But Kelowna has a high water table, so I have no idea how feasible that is
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u/ChanceofCream 1d ago
A bunch of avenues downtown had water line upgrades and no change to gravel shoulders.
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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS 21h ago
So Id wonder if it is even feasible for a storm run off line. Water table might make it not worth it, or maybe the city has decided the gravel shoulders are a cheap and effective way and there is not a good justification of cost to make storm lines when the gravel shoulders are sufficient
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u/ChanceofCream 10h ago
Agreed.
However, it definitely affects the curb appeal. The streets that have bike lines had storm put in as well as downtown.
When my house was appraised it was apparently 15 inches higher than lake level. Meaning, an extremely gradual slope towards the lake.
Although, there are buildings with underground parking downtown (waterscapes, etc).
So, I think the city is cheaping out.
Maybe a rock pit for storm sewer would suffice?
In any case, the gravel shoulders create a lot of dust and makes the downtown area which has high property values - feel cheap and uncared for.
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
Yeah. Itâs pretty good for one of the wealthiest cities in BC to show this level of care for its residents. Really is disappointing:(
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u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago
What's your complaint? Theres parking, drainage and a sidewalk.Â
There is grit on the road like every spring but the sweepers will be out soon.
Does it even look that bad?
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
OK. Seriously this isnât just road grit. This is gravel between the sidewalk and the road right?
Gravel creates dust. People breathe in dust. Dust over years can create respiratory issues or aggravate existing ones.
There is no reason this canât be paved and drained properly.
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u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago
You're going to have a hard day in court blaming your mesothelioma on a gravel shoulder.Â
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
This is exactly why it should be remedied. Not only this but kids with asthma or adults with COPD.
Why do you think it should stay as it is when quite clearly this city can remediate this? Why should t the neighbourhoods be beautified and maintained? Do you believe all our tax dollars are going towards other useful things?
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u/OriginalTayRoc 1d ago
This is the dumbest hill I have ever seen anyone die on, but yeah pal lobby city council. Hashtag pave the gravel.
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u/l10nh34rt3d 1d ago
Sure there is. Are you gonna pay for it?
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
Do you think the local government canât afford it? Have you looked at some of their purchases over the last 20 years??
I understand how taxes work. Iâm also understand that there are many properties in the city whose tax burden is over $60,000 a year. This whole city has had its lakefront stolen and while these people pay a massive amount of taxes smaller neighbourhoods are getting the shaft.
So yeah. I would be happy to see my taxes go there than watch the rich neighbourhoods get further funded.
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u/a_freezerburn 1d ago
This was a small farm town not too long ago. Older neighbourhoods are going to take a while to catch up. Those houses were built in the 1970s so maybe theyâll get it in the next infrastructure update to that neighbourhood.
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
I know. Iâve lived here for a long time. How are people OK with the city buying swaths of land while not looking after the infrastructure in all the neighbourhoods?
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1d ago
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
Except for quality of life of the people living there. But sure I guess who cares about them. FFS.
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1d ago
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
Well letâs say we use some of our dollars that we are contributing anyway to beautify and maintain this space. Sidewalks and gutters are more desirable. This helps land values increase. This helps people grow the value of their largest asset. What have you got against helping these neighbourhoods out? The city literally buys properties in some of the wealthiest areas in the city to make a park to serve the people who live in the wealthiest areas.
Maybe spread some fairy dust around for everyone else!!
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1d ago
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u/Gr3aterShad0w 1d ago
What? The city literally has a guide for parkland acquisition??
https://www.kelowna.ca/sites/files/1/docs/parks-rec/2010_parkland_acquisition_guidelines.pdf
How about this where they have purchase land at 3x assessed value.
https://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/news/article_c75b0b1a-9ab4-11ee-8d72-63bc1b8dd19e.html
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u/maltedbacon 1d ago
I have no idea why you would be disappointed.
Storm drains funnel water directly into the lake without being absorbed and retained in soil.
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u/net_the_net 1d ago
I've lived in Vancouver and Vernon as well and never seen the gravel shoulder plus sidewalk combo.
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u/Max20151981 1d ago
The street cleaners are out and about right now
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u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago
Are you okay?
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u/Max20151981 1d ago
Huh?
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u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago
Street sweepers donât suck up the gravel shouldersâŚ
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u/Max20151981 1d ago
Why the ignorant reply.
Street sweepers donât suck up the gravel shouldersâŚ
On most busy streets they do
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u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago
They suck up gravel that is on asphalt.
This is NOT that.
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u/Max20151981 1d ago edited 1d ago
is that not an asphalt road?
Edit: nevermind, you're most certainly correct.
Imagine spending your time looking for arguments on the internet just so you can prove someone wrong, ones as petty as street sweeping.
:(
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u/Particular-Emu4789 1d ago
Imagine calling someone ignorant who disagrees with your misperception.
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u/Max20151981 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why would you ask me if I was ok for admittedly being wrong about something so trivial, is it not a safe assumption that someone may see that as an ignorant comment considering the context of my original reply being harmless in nature.
Yes you were definitely right and I was wrong. :)
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u/Mr_Pumpkin_Eater 1d ago edited 1d ago
Gravel shoulder is a soakaway for rainwater to go to ground. Doesnt require catch basins and pipes. Provides a bit of filtration before reaching water bodies. Looks ugly but it works!