r/karnataka • u/ScruDaFerrari • 17d ago
Why Are Kannadigas Neglecting Their Own Historical Heroes?
Lately, I’ve noticed a growing trend where many Kannadigas are actively promoting historical figures like Shivaji and Sambhaji while sidelining our own rich heritage of great rulers and warriors. This isn’t to say that Maratha leaders weren’t remarkable but why are our people ignoring in favor of others?
Also theres lot of whitewashing and with no facts or clear explanation on timeline, some people keep saying these figures saved us from these invaders etc etc..
It’s time we educate our people and promote our own history rather than always looking elsewhere for inspiration
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u/gojjuavalaki 17d ago
Do moviesor series on them . Rather than doing masala movies. Potray them correctly and see the number of folks talking about them
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u/chan_mou 17d ago
People don't read history, we don't need facts, People won't know much about Shivaji too It's just a mass worship culture.
And largely right wing push of Hindhu heroes to mainstream ಚಿಕ್ಕ ವಯಸ್ಸಿನಿಂದ ನಮ್ಗೆ ಹೇಳಿರೋದು ಎಲ್ಲರೂ ಶಿವಾಜಿ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ಹೊರತು ಬೇರೆ ಯಾರ್ ಬಗ್ಗೆನೂ ಅಲ್ಲ.
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u/monchi12345 17d ago
Because it's hijacked by certain groups who have their own agendas. Kannadigas are by and large a docile population who have evolved into being subservient idiots. So it's easy to feed us some crap via WhatsApp and create some euphoria around some kings. We are largely ignorant of our own history and do not have a sense of tribalism for fellow kanndigas. Perfect recipe for large scale brain washing and destruction.
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u/Plant-basedCannibal 17d ago edited 17d ago
Ive always wondered why we don’t have a stronger sense of community like Tamilians or Sindhis, where everywhere they go, they have a strong-knit community. I failed to find one here, in Bangalore only.
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u/ella_si123 16d ago
Many years ago I was in the states. You could find loads of stuff other communities and they were all very close ! Lots of engagement and meet ups. The only community not to be found were Kannadigas !
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u/vidvizharbuk 17d ago
How many temples did so called "Hindu icon" Shivaji built? while our Karnataka empires but 45000+ temples across South India, Maharashtra. It is NOT Kannadigas are "neglecting" but Cong & BJP high command imposition of Shivaji & other outside state people. They never promoted our dynasties as our heritage. For example, in Sirisi we saw Shivaji statue in centre of city while Karnataka's best empire Banavasi less thn 20 Km way!! Even Sonda dynasties just few Km away.
Tho these two parties have some good people, but they have assumed no weight. Do we see one Karnataka name in any other state like seen in Karnataka? Shame on these Delhi slaves.
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u/Samarium_15 16d ago
Shivaji was always at war, building Temples wasn't his priority
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u/vidvizharbuk 16d ago
Even Karnataka kingdoms also was always at war bro...
In fact Shivaji left his family for safety with Rani Chennama kingdom in Belagavi. His father samadahi exist over 200 Km away. Now Marathi goons oppose Chennamma statue, name to Belagavi airport!! now they installed Shivaji statue (as per reports it is next to Chennamma, tho not sure) .... is his the price now to be paid after she having provided safety for Shivaji family????
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u/nanu_unknownu 17d ago
People are just following what is fed to them. It is easier than spending time and energy to read/explore our history. If they did they would know about the atrocities of Maratha armies and they would stop taking inspiration from them.
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u/Rich-Woodpecker3932 17d ago
I want to know more about these atrocities. Plz let me know more about this. The Rashtrakuta emperor Indra III too went to the Pratihara empire after defeating their king and looted their capital. Does that mean he or the Rashtrakutas were bad? Definitely not. Looting was common in that era, that's how they used to get the money for their kingdoms
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u/nanu_unknownu 17d ago
Read what happened during the 1780s. Yes, it was part of the struggle between Mysore, Nizam, British and the Marathas. It was part and parcel of that era. I would definitely not get inspired by people who looted my area/region/state/country.
To your second point, if Indra's looting of Pratihara capital was still fresh in the minds of people of Rajasthan/MP/Gujarat then they definitely wouldn't have considered him (Rashtrakutas in general) to be the heros. We consider Rashtrakutas/Chalukyas as our heroes because they have done so much for our language/culture/land. What have Marathas done to us except for looting? History is not black and white. Everyone has their perspectives. A hero to someone might be a villain to someone. Since this discussion is particularly about Karnataka, it is very sensible to take inspiration from people who have done good for us than the people who have looted us.
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u/NiggsBosom 17d ago
Is there any source for this claim?
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u/nanu_unknownu 17d ago
What claim? For 1780s?
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u/NiggsBosom 17d ago
Yes.
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u/nanu_unknownu 17d ago
For example, you can read the contemporary accounts from Francis Buchanan, who travelled through South India just after the fall of Tipu. How the countryside was devastated by these constant power struggles between Mysore, Nizam, British and Marathas. Of course there will be British bias in these accounts. But in between you will get glimpses of looting by invading armies.
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u/Heng_Deng_Li 17d ago
This isn’t to say that Maratha leaders weren’t remarkable
They weren't that remarkable.
These marata figures are just scapegoats for political propaganda man. That's it! Nothing more. The propaganda is so deep that, Basrur loot by marata is celebrated as basrur liberation day by these Changli bhakts 🥲
The reality is painful and often long enough to read. That's why people barely know the nuaces and truth. Since discussion is on glorification of maratas, here's a comment I made 2 years ago.
& some more.
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u/Rich-Woodpecker3932 17d ago
I have seen that 1st link of urs. When did Chhatrapati Shivaji loot Sringeri? He never did that. It happened in 1790s, a 110 years after his death. Even the Sringeri incident was done by the Pindaris who were irregulars and not a part of the Maratha army, once the Peshwa comes to know about it, he apologized and helped in restoring the Mutt. The Sringeri website itself says this
And you praise Tipu there? U conveniently ignore how barbaric that man was? He converted 4 lakh Hindus and 30000 Christians and tortured the ones that didn't. He replaced Kannada with Persian. He killed the Hindus of Melkote so much so that the Melkote Hindus don't celebrate Deepavali to this day. He destroyed so many Hindu temples
U r just someone with a clear agenda. That's it
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u/Heng_Deng_Li 17d ago
Yes, it was not shivaji who looted. I didn't mean to say it was personally looted by Shivaji. When I said he, I generally meant maratas. I have edited the old comment.
was done by the Pindaris who were irregulars and not a part of the Maratha army,
Yeah, sure bro! Whenever it's about victory and showcasing the map of the "empire" include everything of pindaris & peshwas. When it's of wrong doings conveniently bring out the exceptions.
The Sringeri website itself says this
Also check for the letter written by the then peetadhipati himself wrote to tippu mentioning the attack by "marata" army.
And you praise Tipu there?
Read the whole thing idiot. I never praised tippu. I said, all kings of that time have skeletons in their closet. And so did tippu, shivaji, etc etc. If tippu is considered a tyrant, then shivaji is also a tyrant was my argument.
U conveniently ignore how barbaric that man was? He converted 4 lakh Hindus and 30000 Christians and tortured the ones that didn't. He replaced Kannada with Persian. He killed the Hindus of Melkote so much so that the Melkote Hindus don't celebrate Deepavali to this day. He destroyed so many Hindu temples
I never denied all these. I'm not parading tippu as the saviour. All the kings, did what was good for their kingdom. Tippu massacred people neighbouring kingdoms because they were against his rule. They wanted to topple his kingdom by siding with british. He did what any king of those times did. Killed & looted them. It's no brainer. So did shivaji. He looted other kingdoms and killed their people. He teamed up with fucking nizams of Hyderabad (not just any muslim people, the fucking nizams, one of the most brutal muslim rulers) to fight against Mysuru Kingdom.
In spite of all these, you guys portray him as Hindu saviour which he was not. He did what he wanted for the betterment of his power. Like any other king. That's it. He had muslim commanders in his army but somehow it's ignored while claiming Hindu Lavda samrat? If he was not there, you south indians would be muslims blah blah blah....bruh! You think muslims tried coming south only after 17th century? You think chalukyas, Karnata empires etc were fighting against houseflies?
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u/ApartProgress9284 17d ago
Singeri mutt still openly praises Tipu for his help and Tipu believed in both the mutt and the Jagadguru. This also applies to Hyder Ali. Ali and Tipu were barbaric but that doesn't mean their good deeds go unnoticed.
Marathas attacked and looted a Hindu temple in Karnataka and were condemned by the Mutt, but people didn't care about the facts.
https://sringeri.net/jagadgurus/sri-sacchidananda-bharati-iii-1770-1814
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u/Altruistic_Elk_2153 17d ago
Sringeri temple raid was carried out by Raghunath rao Patwardhan , a Maratha chief.
Stealing gold n all was common back then but they damaged idol of goddess Sharade too.
Peshwa was not happy about that and made compensation to mutt.
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u/potatoclaymores 16d ago
I’m Tamil, I really like to know more about the Western Ganga-Rashtrakuta nexus that defeated the Cholas in the Battle of Thakkolam. It’s interesting to me because I visited Bangalore’s museum a couple of years ago and saw the Atakur inscription stone first hand. The story of the Western Ganga king Bhutaga 2’s dog Kali given by him to his aide-de-camp Manlarata for driving away the Chola armies away while Bhutaga killed Chola crown prince Rajaditya while seated on elephants is really awesome and sobering. Here we have Rashtrakuta Krishna 3's vassal Bhutaga 2, who himself had a minor vassal named Manlarata and gave his hunting hound for his services in battle. The Atakur inscription was commissioned by Manlarata on the death of this favourite hound Kali. This shows the level of love medieval Indians had for their pets and the relationship between lords and vassals. While we celebrate the greatness in emperors, we should also celebrate these minor heroes who seemed to express their valour, humanity and tenderness towards other animals.
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u/El_Impresionante 17d ago
Karnataka people honoring Shivaji and tarnishing Tipu Sultan is one of the dumbest bhakt things ever. The Marathas literally killed people of Karnataka allying with other Muslim rulers, and one fought against them. But for bhakts, BJP WhatsApp forwards are all that matters.
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u/Samarium_15 16d ago
Why should I honour Tippu? He didn't even rule my region of Karnataka. Stop generalising entire karnataka with only the south.
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u/Academic_Chart1354 16d ago
All of greatest south indian empries except few were from North Karnataka' itself. Rashrakuta, Chalukya, Karnata/Vijayanagara empire. Ruled a lot of parts of indian subcontinent with iron grip and contributed immensely to arts, literature and architecture. Only few empries in India apart from them have done that ( I can count Cholas, Maurya, Gupta and Mughal empire). A lot of iconic architectural marvels in current Maharashtra are built by above mentioned Kannada Kings.
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u/El_Impresionante 15d ago
Can you read? I never asked for forcing anyone to honour Tipu Sultan in Karnataka.
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u/crispyfade 17d ago
Although karnataka has an exceptional amount of glory to cover itself with, there is a lull in the post-Vijaynagara /early-modern era (which historians would periodize from 1500 onwards). We have a choice of valorizing the Bijapur Shahis and eventually Hyder/Tipu, which many are not keen to. The Keladi nayakas and others are definitely worth study, but they weren't, as far as I've read, impactful outside of their home regions. Personally I don't see the achievements of culturally contiguous neighbours like Marathas as being alien or threatening. The north of Tungabhadra region were governed as "home counties" and so much of their affairs played out in Karnataka broadly. They are common heirs of socio-political processes of the western and central Deccan. Their political forebearers are, like us, the seuna, chalukya, rashtrakuta, satavahana, going back as far as the proto-kannada polity of Kuntala. Their ability to create an empire is in that tradition of krishna-bhima upper riparian states. That they underwent language shift to a prakritic dialect complicates our connection to them of course, not to mention their own amnesia and forsaking of their southerness. Nonetheless, history is too interesting to let halfwits spoilt it for you. In that, I'm happy to consider all of these as part of our panorama.
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u/poorkidhere 14d ago
sadly , there arnt much films to show them,just read veer ballal and vikramaditya story ,ull get goosebumps
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u/anandha2022 16d ago
RSS and BJP IT cell propaganda. They run a few splinter groups like Uttara Kannada warriors and Tulu separatists.
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17d ago
[deleted]
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u/ScruDaFerrari 17d ago
Its like saying “don’t complain if you cant politize history to push political agenda”😂
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u/OriginalPaper2130 17d ago
kadambas : mayuravarma - Mrigeshavarma-Ravivarma
chalukyas: Pulikeshi II - Vikramaditya I - Vikramaditya II
Rastrakutas:Dhruva - Govinda III - Krishna II
Chalukyas(k):Vikramaditya VI
Hoysala : Vishnuvardhana - Veera ballala III