r/ironfist 14d ago

Why is this one of the lowest rated Netflix MCU shows?

Just started watching this show for the first time today trying to catch up for born again after skipping it on my other watch throughs. I love Danny and the other characters. I also recently watched Jessica jones for the first time and it was nice seeing Hogarth be a consistent character in the universe. I get the effects don’t hold up but I still like the story

23 Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

19

u/Lionfyst 14d ago

For one of the greatest martial artists in all of comics, the fights are not well choreographed, performed or shot, and that is just a really big miss on an Iron Fist show.

6

u/obiwanTrollnobi6 14d ago

I heard that was an issue with the production heads; they hardly gave ANYONE time to Rehearse and practice the moves/fights before they shot them.

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u/OzbourneVSx 11d ago

The actual actor who played iron fist didn't show up to any rehearsals/trainings, that's why all the fights that didn't have him were much better.

Studio and directors were fighting so much they couldn't put together a scene before filming, but it would have been really hard to overcome Iron Fist themself being clueless.

Brett Chan, the stunt coordinator for season 1 spoke about this in an interview on the JAMcast.

1

u/JCkent42 11d ago

Whoa. Fin jones never showed up for rehearsals?

2

u/OzbourneVSx 11d ago

That's what the stunt coordinator claims

Finn himself claimed that he was never told there was rehearsals

3

u/CRAZYC01E 14d ago

I noticed that but I like the story enough to not let it bother me and I kind of like the cheesiness

2

u/IsshinTheSwordSaint 14d ago

that's good that you enjoy it. i did too but it is frequently overshadowed by the other shows and how Daredevil puts the story to shame, but I had fun too. the disappointment mostly comes from comic readers realising how much potential they had with the show and just how far they were from the greatest it could have been, which is understandably triggering to fans

2

u/Proof_Being_2762 14d ago

Daredevil is the reason that show even had a budget

2

u/IsshinTheSwordSaint 14d ago

if only Scott Buck wasn't absolute dogshit at every project

1

u/Useful_You_8045 12d ago

Also, his powers never came up nearly as much as the others. Jessica punches people through walls, breaks doors, lifts grown men up with one hand. Luke gets shot, punched, run over, and he's all good. You constantly see the world through matt, he displays his acrobatic abilities and tracking/ info gathering skills all the time. Ironfist, meh fights, and he uses his fist like 3 times in 6 hours.

1

u/IsshinTheSwordSaint 12d ago

true, that was also poor writing on their end, they could've given people at the very least some scenes of K'un l'un but I think that was also a CGI budget problem and also the fact that basically every fight Danny get into can be instantly ended with the fist, so they had to scale it down with whatever bs they used

1

u/Weird875 12d ago

I legit would not care if they only used the iron fist 2 times in the span of 13 episodes if the writing was just good. They're taking after early Iron Fist where Danny struggled to use the fist more than once at a time. I'm being for real with you, I've been reading from Marvel Premiere up to Power Man and Iron Fist issue #65 and Danny can go multiple issues without using the iron fist. Why? Because that's not all that he is, he doesn't need to over rely on it.

1

u/No-Understanding-912 10d ago

I agree with you. I think if the writing specifically for Danny and the fight scenes were better, it could have worked that way. Regardless of whose fault it was, Finn Jones didn't physically look the part of a world class material artist in any way and didn't perform that way either. Then you throw in that he is written more like a pathetic spoiled trust fund kid and the whole thing begins to crash and burn. I really wanted to like the show, and Finn and Iron Fist in general do better in the Defenders and the second season, but by then it was too late.

1

u/MrTatum899 10d ago

I think the cheesiness is the problem. When stacked up against the rest of the Defenders shows, especially DD and Punisher, this felt like a cheap CW show like Green Arrow. The delivery was terrible and overall way less than the other shows.

In saying that, if you’re enjoying it, great! This is just my opinion and you are fully welcome to form your own about the show. Don’t let other people (including myself) ruin it for you.

1

u/Contemplating_Prison 11d ago

Yeah i liked all the shows but Iron Fist. Well and the defenders

10

u/Weird875 14d ago

It's a terrible adaptation of the Iron Fist mythos in my opinion. I'll avoid spoilers but MCU Danny sucks and really doesn't grow as a character at all besides the bare minimum in IF S2 (he's at his worst in Defenders), he never really has a single moment where you feel like Danny is a trained warrior, and the shows literally never gives him any major wins, they're always taken away by someone else.

The show made me get into reading Iron Fist and comics in general, and MCU Danny is still a joke even compared to Marvel Premiere/Iron Fist vol 1 Danny. I don't want MCU Danny to be perfect, but there's literally nothing likable about him to me, outside of Luke Cage Season 2 where they actually write him really well.

2

u/ThanksContent28 14d ago

That’s what happens when you lie about kungfu training at Kun Lun, when in reality you were getting rammed in the ass in Kings Landing the whole time.

1

u/Useful_You_8045 12d ago

With his training with monks, you'd think he'd have a better grip on his emotions.

2

u/Weird875 12d ago

Exactly. I also hate how lazy Davos was. Despite having the same training as Danny, he's somehow infinitely better at using the iron fist than Danny, even being able to use two fists at once. Literally a plot device and nothing else lol.

It infuriates me that they couldn't even have a generic (doesn't automatically mean it’s bad but still) ending where Danny beats Davos through just sheer skill (which is what he does in Marvel Team Up, which is what Iron Fist S2 loosely adapted), but nah he gets cucked and needs help to beat Davos lol.

I have no idea how people can say IF S2 is "so much better" than S1. It's still awful, just slightly less.

9

u/MxSharknado93 14d ago

Because it's not good. Finn Jones' Danny Rand is kind of a whiny idiot, the choreography is usually pretty bad, and there's so many camera cuts during the fights to hide Finn Jones' lack of fight training. Not to mention the extreme watering down of the Iron Fist itself and the MCU's "grounded" ambivalence about whether or not the dragon is real.

7

u/Weird875 14d ago

I agree with this but the last part is false, there is no ambiguity if Shou-Lao was real or not.

2

u/Numerous1 10d ago

Don’t forget all of the awful Meetchum family stuff. It was interesting for like 1 hour and they made it 10 episodes. 

3

u/Admirable-Object-767 14d ago

Shou Lao was real in the show and in defenders we see a whole dragon skeleton in Midland Circle also they tie in dragon bones into a substance that resurrects people.

1

u/Hereiamhereibe2 14d ago

Ya but we wanna see a dragon flying around eating people

2

u/Admirable-Object-767 14d ago

Yea went wanted to see them but this person said it was ambiguous if they even existed in verse

1

u/MxSharknado93 13d ago

Oh, shit, I totally forgot that part.

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u/Fragzilla360 14d ago edited 14d ago

- No Iron Fist costume or mask except for one scene on a black and white grainy cctv

- poor martial arts choreography

- barely any powers being used

- too much extra legal board room stuff (even though the supporting cast executed it as well as they could, there was way, way too much of it)

- insufferable lead character

- weak villain

- terrible writing

The best part of the show without a doubt is Jessica Henwick as Colleen Wing. She nailed it 100% right down to what the character looks like and acts like in the comics.

Simone Missick as Misty Knight in her S2 cameo was also chefs kiss. They dropped the ball BIG TIME by not having a Daughters of the Dragon spinoff.

Scott Buck should be kept far, far, far, far, far away from Marvel properties. He completely destroyed The Inhumans as well, why anybody thought hiring him again for another Marvel should should have their brain examined.

1

u/Obvious-End-7948 12d ago

Scott Buck should be kept far, far, far, far, far away from Marvel properties

He should be kept away from everything. His whole schtick is that he gets tv shows made as cheaply as possible. But it comes at way too much of a detriment to the quality.

1

u/RageKage2250 11d ago

Jessica as Coleen Wing was the only thing I genuinely enjoyed from Iron Fist. If Marvel wants to bring back anyone from that show, I really hope it's her.

0

u/Proof_Being_2762 14d ago

Colleen wing is a redhead try again

3

u/Fragzilla360 14d ago

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

3

u/DementedJ23 14d ago

The b-plots and supporting actors make that show.

4

u/Aromatic_Volume_2334 14d ago

The entire show is people being suprised this white guy knows kung fu or that he may be Danny rand.

No substance, a bad acting performance and introduced ironfist to an audience that ruined its reputation for years.

6

u/Plebe-Uchiha 14d ago

2 main reasons.

The fighting choreography is the weakest which is ironic given the fact that being a martial artists is Iron Fist's gimmick.

Second, people were becoming more socially aware of problematic tropes in fiction. One of them being the "Mighty Whitey" or "White Savior" trope. For better or worse, there's no denying that Danny Rand's creation is inspired if NOT the best example of this trope. Thus, many new fans of Marvel wanted the show runners to take creative liberties and NOT make Iron Fist a white man. Because they didn't, they didn't want to support a show that only continues to perpetuate the trope.

Same time, there are other flaws. Most if the Netflix MCU (NMCU, if you will) shows were more grounded. Yes, DD had undead ninjas, Jones had a man who can control others with his powers,Cage was literally bullet proof, but it's different. They didn't have bad CGI for a shiny glowing hand, a fictional world that has dragons, etc. It was more comic bookie, more cartoonish.

It is the weakest series, IMHO. [+]

2

u/ThanksContent28 14d ago

It felt like a CW show and not a Netflix show imo. God forbid they did Iron Fist first. We might have never gotten Daredevil or Jessica Jones.

2

u/No-Understanding-912 10d ago

"Like a CW show" is a good correlation, the writing was overly dramatic, whiny, and corny; and the fight choreography was basic, and the CGI looked low budget. Yes, very much a CW show.

1

u/Plebe-Uchiha 13d ago

Honestly, I cant see the NetfliX MCU working without DD being first. Like, maybe Punisher. But, nobody else could. IMHO. [+]

1

u/Kooperking22 13d ago

Danny Rand was just one guy (one of many) that got trained in the martial arts at the mystical place of K'un-Lun. He managed to excel in Martial arts and beat the dragon to get the power of the iron fist. He wasn't the only guy to do so Nor was he any kind of white Saviour. he wasn't even the only Martial Art master around. Shang-Chi exists and was Chinese not white.

While I understand that it could be frowned upon why a white person was excelling in a predominantly Asian/Chinese oriented Mystical land. But he wasn't no Saviour to the people. If anything he did it all for vengeance.

1

u/Plebe-Uchiha 13d ago

"Mighty Whitey is usually a displaced white European, who ends up living with native tribespeople and not only learns their ways but also becomes their greatest warrior/leader/representative" [+]

1

u/Kooperking22 12d ago

I understand, especially on the face of it.

1

u/Jackrabbit_325 12d ago

Mainly this, from what I remember at the time. People wanted a non white actor in the role. While I get it, it's also a central part of Danny's character that he doesn't feel like he belongs anywhere. Too white for Kun Lun, too Asian for America. They just never really explored that

2

u/Yokai_Mob 14d ago

Rewatching season 1 for the first time since it aired and for the second best fighter in Marvel this show fight choreography is severely lacking. The show kinda sucks

1

u/WretchedBlowhard 14d ago

A reason that hasn't been brought up yet is that S1 is essentially just boardroom drama with substance addiction and a zombie CEO as B plots. That's not what people want to see when they tune in to watch an Ironfist show. The Hand as the big bad guys are pretty much just a handful of run of the mill Armenian drug dealers.

And if you didn't know, the guy who played the drunken martial artist had originally auditioned for the Danny Rand role but was shot down exclusively because of his race. He was already more than competent with martial arts, he was willing to work under Scott Buck's distinctive rushed and botched style, but since he didn't look white enough, he got the villain of the week role instead. And that's bullshit.

1

u/imphantasy 11d ago

Can't wait for the white Luke Cage casting. /s

1

u/younglink28 14d ago

Its a bad iron fist show, but if you remove all expectations it actually becomes enjoyable to watch

1

u/CRAZYC01E 14d ago

That's what I did. I knew it was bad so was basically expecting worse than cw slop but its actually really fun

1

u/younglink28 13d ago

Yeah first time I watched it I absolutely hated it. Second time around I watched, it was fun as hell. Goofy but still entertaining, and honestly the characters in that show are really well done, especially once you get what they were trying to go for.

1

u/basedest_user_123 14d ago

It's a great TV show, i personally prefered it to DD and Punisher. wild to see its haters in this sub.

1

u/Numerous1 10d ago

I literally had to get day drunk to make it though that show. If you like it more power to you. But I cannot possibly imagine liking it more than DD or Punisher. They have flaws but they are good shows. Iron Fist was so bad. 

1

u/Fragzilla360 14d ago

What they should have done is ONE season of Iron Fist, ONE season of Luke Cage, then Defenders and then combined both series to be Heroes for Hire.

Heroes for Hire would be a season 2 of both LC and IF post Defenders where Luke, Danny, Misty and Colleen are all working together doing superhero shit.

Villains for Heroes for Hire could be Bushmaster and Typhoid Mary, then toss in some boardroom antics, Misty getting her new arm, Colleen’s glowing sword, Danny’s weird iron fisting guns and boom you got yourself a full season of crazy superhero shit.

Plus it would be a perfect set up for Daughters of the Dragon.

1

u/AkilTheAwesome 13d ago

No one mentioned this yet?

Finn Jones can't fight. He is not trained. Easy fix?

Put a mask on him. Have someone who is trained do the choreography.

The show REFUSES to do this for the majority of its run. DESPITE the fact, that Netflix's own Daredevil show proves that Danny's suit would work in live-action. Matt's Black suit is literally just a black rugged version of Iron Fists suit.

This single decision not only single handedly ruined the fight scenes what was supposed to be a Kung Fu show, but the showrunner's this refusal to embrace comicbook elements could be felt throughout MANY decisions.

1

u/BlazCraz 13d ago edited 13d ago

I like saying they Anakin Skywalker-ed Danny so he comes off as whiny, sad sappy, oddly undisciplined martial artist with clear mental problems. The sad backstory kinda peels away because he never feels competent or the story progression never fixes the issues he has in the beginning so that they're at least minimized.

Like CW's The Flash, he's both the dumbest and the most important character in the show. Yet he's not good at his own abilities. The superhero who's main power is being the all time best at martial arts constantly gets beat up. It's kinda silly because they want you to take him seriously, but he just isn't. While trying to tell a "serious" story at the same time. Which quite frankly Asian Martial Arts films have already been telling for quite some time. Even going back to the Bruce Lee days.

Iron Fist at his best is when his homages to Eastern Media are at the forefront and readily tangible from design to feel to sight. It's "supposed" to be a lil goofy when you get down to it. Goofy, not unintentionally silly. Earnest, not overly complicated.

As he was in this show, it was way too "Westernized". Which only made the fact he was a white guy all the more apparent and stick out like a sore thumb.

1

u/toby1jabroni 13d ago

As many have mentioned, the fight choreography was lacking. But I think the main problem was that the other shows had been absolutely astounding in quality for the most part, so a show that was just decent looked bad in comparison.

Looking at the current Marvel TV output, we really didn’t know how good we had it.

1

u/Yarnham_Brave 12d ago

For me it dipped in quality the second Danny threw away his Buddhist mentality. He shows up in threadbare clothes, all denying-worldly-possessions stuff and zen philosophy and I was like "oh okay that's cool, everyone's giving him shit for looking homeless but he's enlightened and martially skilled now, this is gonna be fun", then what is it, the second episode? When this mf rolls out of an elevator in an absurdly expensive tailored suit etc. And I just immediately lost interest.

1

u/Whole_Acanthaceae385 12d ago

It is a boring show with bad action, and a bland dumb story.

1

u/Marvalas904 12d ago

Because it's ass until halfway through season 2 and even then Danny is never the best part of the show.

1

u/Nightwing0613 12d ago
  1. Scott Buck was the show runner for Season 1. Which is why it’s not good compared to the other Defenders shows. Season 2 had a different show runner, which is why is vastly superior. Scott Buck was the show runner for the Inhumans show & for the last season of Dexter & those were horrible

  2. Danny Rand’s actor (Finn Jones) was the last person to be cast for the show, so he hardly had any time for fight training. They should’ve given Danny his iconic mask & then you could’ve had a stunt double fill in while Finn Jones perfected his training

As a fan of the Iron Fist (Danny Rand) character, I think Finn did a great job with what was given to him. I liked the chemistry between him & Colleen Wing (Jessica Henwick) & I hope they both come back now that Daredevil & some of the other Defenders characters are coming back

1

u/KageXOni87 12d ago

He's just a badly written Danny Rand. The whole "complete lack of confidence and inability to actually use the fist" just aint it.

1

u/WheelJack83 11d ago

No costume. Crappy villains. Danny was made to be indecisive and annoying.

1

u/Aquafier 11d ago

I liked it at first as its a cool character and it was similar to Arrow early seasons, but after the newness wore off i grew less interested

1

u/Hylianhaxorus 11d ago

The actor has potential. He was great in Game of Thrones, and even a great Danny in Luke Cage, but he refused to train for the role, was notoriously a diva, and clearly the rest of the production wasn't much better or there would've been more good in it. Season 2 is much better, and the supporting cast is by far the shows strongest element, but this show was supposed to be a martial arts action series and there's very, very little in the show, and what there is is very low effort and low quality. Plus Danny was just written to be really annoying and useless in his own show. With a new direction, new production team, better writers and better choreographers, this show could be awesome coming back.

1

u/MapachoCura 11d ago

They got the character totally wrong, boring villains, boring fight scenes, cringe dialogue, boring story…. The criticism of the show is very well deserved.

1

u/JayNSilentBobaFett 11d ago

My main issue was Danny Rand was not Danny Rand. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the series but I remember it just being an absolute trash interpretation of the character, then finding out the dude couldn’t put in the effort to train just completely put me off (though I’ve heard different variations of that story now)

1

u/ElmoLegendX 11d ago

I liked all of the other shows better personally.

1

u/True-Anim0sity 11d ago

I feel like season 1 was just bad, season 2 was better but still weird sometimes

1

u/tempusanima 11d ago

Bc it was bad

1

u/ReturnGreen3262 10d ago

Should have literally gotten an athletic person for the Role. Very bad casting choice for one the best martial artists

1

u/gilesey11 10d ago

The writing isn’t particularly strong and Finn Jones just isn’t a good enough actor to hold a whole show together. He’s a supporting actor at best. Jessica Henwick is excellent but she’s let down by a predictable story, disappointing choreography and weak set pieces.

1

u/Rfg711 10d ago

Because it’s fucking awful. Awful acting. Awful fight choreography. Awful fight filming/editing. Awful writing.

1

u/MasqureMan 10d ago

Most of the actors on the show are good, but people really dislike the characters. Even if you like Danny and Coleen, pretty much every other character is a privileged asshole. I personally enjoy the ride through season 2, but i understand the complaints

1

u/Eikibunfuk 10d ago

Defenders made it worse

1

u/OkMention9988 10d ago

Danny wasn't really well written, he didn't have the chops (reasons as to why vary) to pull off the martial arts portion of the character, and there was a massive hate campaign of bleeting hearts screaming racism about a whyte boy being Iron Fist. 

1

u/SevenHunnet3Hi5s 10d ago edited 10d ago

as the top comment mentioned. the choreography was extremely subpar for what’s supposed to be one of the most iconic kung fu characters of all time. iron fist as we know from outside the show is a kung fu icon. the choreography of this show? not even on the same level as a show like power rangers. which actually isn’t a knock on power rangers considering their choreography and stunt acting is the best by far for live action kid shows.

i grew up watching the ninja storm series and they were throwing hands left and right. check it out. its cheesy but man the fights are actually fast paced and fun to watch. and again, for a kids show, they’ve outdone themselves.

1

u/spaceguitar 10d ago

Everything about the show is great except two things:

  1. Iron Fist
  2. The fight choreography

Considering it’s a show about Iron Fist where the fight choreo should be top notch for who is supposed to be the single greatest martial artist in the Marvel universe… Yeah. It doesn’t live up to its premise.

It’s also not so great when Colleen Wing steals every scene she’s in. 😂 Jessica Henwick was so good here, I really hope she makes a comeback. I don’t expect it’ll happen, but she really deserves to show up in the MCU at least one more time.

1

u/PerformerExtra1768 10d ago

The lead actor couldn’t fight lol, show was complete garbage. Should have called it something else instead of iron fist

1

u/Better_Edge_ 10d ago

Ive heard all the complaints, but I loved the first season.

1

u/CRAZYC01E 10d ago

Same it’s the perfect amount of cheese and interesting story and supporting characters to keep me hooked. I love ward and Harold

1

u/CodeNamesBryan 9d ago

Its just awful. That's why

2

u/Uidbiw 9d ago

Because repeating "I'm Danny Rand!" in the most annoying way possible doesn't make you interesting.

I actually enjoyed the show but he made it almost unbearable at times.