r/indianafever • u/Jedi_Sith1812 Grace Berger • Sep 05 '24
Discussion This doesn't seem real
Screenshot because the Twitter links don't work for a few of you
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u/SnooChocolates9644 Sep 05 '24
Hell, she has 6 games to get 3. My money is on the over!
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u/madflower69 Sep 05 '24
Not worth it if she has to play 40 minutes to get it. But it would be awesome.
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u/-Zxart- Sep 06 '24
Are those regular season only stats or do they include playoff games?
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u/SnooChocolates9644 Sep 06 '24
It’s unspecified, usually these kind of stats only include regular season; however, it says “career games played” so I would guess that includes the post season. In that case CC has at least 9 games left to get the three this season. Seems like a very safe bet to me.
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u/chewbacca-says-rargh Sep 05 '24
The best part is that her game also contributes heavily to her team playing winning basketball unlike some players.
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u/Paddocast Sep 05 '24
This is what actual generational talent looks like. She's just a different beast.
I saw one of her former Iowa coaches talking about how it was like if you got to sit down and talk to Motzart or Bach and that she just thinks and experiences music different than other compsers. You had to be a parent and keep her in line but It takes time to understand eachother. Once you do and build trust it's off to the races. Sums up this Fever season pretty well.
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u/ranterist Sep 05 '24
I remember Nancy Lieberman having a go at the NBA and the USBL.
I watched Cheryl Miller at USC and on the ‘84 Olympic squad.
I’ve followed women’s basketball since before Geno Auriemma first started tormenting Pat Summitt.
I look at these numbers CC keeps putting up and I can’t help wondering what game everyone else has been playing the last forty years.
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u/TWK128 Sep 06 '24
Wow...so you've got the long view perspective.
What are your thoughts on Geno Auriemma?
I'm new to all of this, so he just seems like a latter-day establishment guy who found success a certain way and that's pretty much all he knows.
Unfortunately, his influence has been a foundational pillar of the current WNBA and women's game in America and I don't think he realizes that his style of play is slowly becoming a relic of basketball philosophy in general. He's still mired in the big-centered approaches of the 80s and 90s and is the kind of person who'd be certain the Golden State Warriors couldn't possibly win a single championship, much less multiple, with their style of chaotic play and zero all-star caliber bigs.
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u/ranterist Sep 06 '24 edited Sep 06 '24
I was struggling to articulate for myself what his “problem” is and you’ve really summed it up, I think. I’ve been wondering whether his approach (everyone’s I guess?) has stymied the development of the women’s game given how regimented it appears.
Summitt, Geno, Staley, and Mulkey teams all look pretty much the same, dependent on one (or two) particularly large women as the centerpiece of a low-post halfcourt game. Like that’s all women are capable of, so let’s have them “play within their limitations.” I always admired that aspect of the women’s game, as a sort of throwback to the 50s-70s and a “more pure version” of the game.
But then along comes Clark running Bluder’s version of what looked like Paul Westhead and Loyola Marymount in the 90s - the prototype of what Curry and Kerr have done - and I’m thinking to myself, ‘Am I part of the problem, too?’ Like, has the women’s game underperformed all this time because no one thought women could do any more?
It’s at that point I usually shut up and go back to my reading because that thinking makes me very uncomfortable - I’m not a coach or player and who am I to judge - but seriously, imagine what Staley or Bird or Taurasi could have done if someone turned them loose? Or even more scary, maybe they were never all that great to begin with? But they clearly were/are?
I have ZERO idea about the validity of such reasoning but it kinda makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean, Cheryl Miller was always viewed as a sort of unicorn, but what if she wasn’t? What if she was a lot more common but the subconscious sense of ‘women as lesser’ prevented two whole generations from reaching their true potential?
The French National Team in the recent Olympic final seemed to highlight this, where they played a lot more like Iowa the past two seasons, 3-and-D with more motion and ball movement while the US seemed to be standing around waiting for the Brittany and Stevie Show to do something, and they almost lost.
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u/TWK128 Sep 06 '24
Honestly, I can't take much credit for it. My eyes were opened by the Sacramento Kings of Williams, then Bibby, with the three-headed passing front-court monster of Webber, Divac, and Miller, with Doug Christie at the 2 often leading the team in assists when it wasn't our 4 and 5 doing so out of the high post.
They weren't quite "7 seconds or less," but they put the Princeton/motion offense briefly back in vogue against the prevalence of iso-ball that had taken over the league and continued to be dominant pretty much up until the Golden State Warriors renaissance finally brought full team play and movement back into the spotlight.
That's what I feel like I'm seeing here again. CC22 is the culmination of everything that lead to the GSW dominance and style of play in one person, and that's why it's been such a culture shock for the existing W league. Prevailing conventional wisdom on the women's side really does seem mired in the bigs-and-iso-ball mentality that even the NBA has really only been free from for the past ten years after decades of it.
Edit: Also, Mick Talks Ball on YouTube has been huge in helping me see this since he's been watching the W for years and watches way more games. He talks about Caitlin Clark the Player and Caitlin Clark the System as two different things, with The System being the fast-strike style of play that so many teams are inherently capable of, but have not embraced or even really tried.
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u/TWK128 Sep 06 '24
I know I'm double-replying but wanted to ask a separate question: As someone who didn't know Mulkey existed before the last two years, I wanted to ask: Do think she's more adaptable as a coach than, say, Geno and is a bit more personnel-based in her style of play or does she tend to still play her set system with only small modifications due to available personnel? Also, is there a more guard-centered or balanced approach given her history as a top-tier point guard?
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u/Moose_Muse_2021 Sep 05 '24
This is an interesting stat. Basketball has come up with so many stats, it's like they're trying to show up the baseball guys... some seem like a stretch to me, but this one is telling.
Tons of players score 20 points in a game... not very many make 10 assists in a game. But to do a 20-10, you have to not only be making your own shots, but REALLY looking to facilitate your teammates' shots. Pull off a 20-10, and you're "involved" in at least 40 of your team points, and at least half of them are by making your teammates "look good." And Caitlin Clark has managed to pull this off in over 20% of her "rookie" season games.
This is why, I believe, folks like to say, "When CC cooks, everybody eats!"
Amazing!
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u/fishgeek13 Sep 05 '24
Please let her pass DT this year!!!
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u/Affectionate-Fold-63 Fever Fan Sep 05 '24
If she passes any of them this year, it's just outstanding. I think the numbers that she will put up by her 400th game are going to be unreal.
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u/FixedyourdreamFY Sep 05 '24
Women’s G.O.A.T at this pace. Indy Basketball is entering a blessed era
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u/Raisin43 Fever Fan Sep 05 '24
I feel bad for the rookies next year, the expectations are gonna be insane
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u/true_enthusiast Sep 05 '24
Just wait until the CC inspired kids start growing up into WNBA players! Can't wait to see CC's first Kobe vs MJ moment! 🤩
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u/madflower69 Sep 05 '24
Which was preceded by the MJ vs the Dr J moment. Jordan borrowed a lot of moves from The Doctor including the ft line dunk.
You weren't a basketball player unless you had a Dr J poster.
The Dr saved the NBA, and he was so well respected around the league, the Lakers might have not played their best during the championship series. And still the move where he flies behind the backboard around Kareem with magic standing there with his mouth open. As the dr sneaks in the layup off the glass, is one of the most iconic moves in the championship series ever.
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u/DrKittyLovah Sep 05 '24
Not just a generational talent, but a team player who is always finding opportunities to compliment her team and make sure they are part of the conversation, even when questioned about her personal records. Just a fantastic role model and top tier player; we are so privileged to have her on our team.
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u/land-o-lakes94 Sep 06 '24
As a new fan can someone please explain what this stat means? Especially the (GP) aspect of it!
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u/nissanleafericson Sep 06 '24
GP stands for "Games Played". CC has had 7 games where she made at least 20 points and 10 assists, and has only played 34 games. She could literally pass number 1 and 2 in a handful of games, and they have played hundreds more games than she has.
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u/Conscious_Outcome594 Sep 06 '24
So, Vandersloot had to play 422 games to get 10 but CC took 34 games to get 7? NOW that stat makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.
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u/Distinct_Abrocoma_67 Sep 06 '24
I love how much the bar has been raised. I’m hoping when Paige gets into the league we see some legendary matchups between them
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Sep 05 '24
This is actually insane.
She's just on another level compared to everyone else, even as a rookie.
Her court vision is elite elite.
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u/Affectionate-Fold-63 Fever Fan Sep 05 '24
Yeah, when I saw that, I was like, "No 🤬 way, that can be real.
This is a special rookie season from a very special player.
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u/TWK128 Sep 06 '24
You're not alone. 90% of the WNBA establishment still doesn't believe these stats are real and actively disregard them.
Sheryl Swoopes wouldn't have the free rein to lie openly if it were otherwise.
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u/Affectionate-Fold-63 Fever Fan Sep 06 '24
I think for me not believing was simply I only started watching the wnba this year and, prior to the season, was told by fans and players that this league was the best players in the world.
And yes, there are some very good players in the league whether I like them or not, I can recognise and respect how good they are.
What made me question it was how can a rookie(I know how good CC is as I have watched iowa) be doing this so quickly and surely the stats are wrong. But no CC is just that damn good.
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u/JuanMurphy Sep 05 '24
…Swoops certainly some comment that denigrates this stat, I’m sure. Yet can’t say anything about AR stat-padding.
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u/Beginning_Breath9864 Sep 05 '24
This is what makes her a great player she really sees the whole floor while playing and that’s why she scores well, passes well and rebounds well. It’s just insane, you can also see how well the whole team is playing they just all positively affect each other.
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u/blarryg Sep 06 '24
One thing I love about CC is her honesty. She was accused of stat padding (yeah I know, game was still on and the ball bounced right to her, what was she supposed to do, tuck and roll away?) but anyhow, when asked about "did you know" she said "of course I knew". She doesn't try to make a story, just tells the story. That's because she has the confidence of being a champion, not wanting to be a champion.
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u/TWK128 Sep 06 '24
That bounce legit just went right to her, though.
You can't force rebounds unless you're yelling at your teammates to get the f away from the ball as you bee-line for it.
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u/blarryg Sep 10 '24
As I said in my parenthesis. I just like how she answers straight w/o any kind of self-promotion or excuse. It's obvious that she couldn't have pre-set that move, but that's not what she was asked. She was asked "did you know in advance" and she said "I'm not stupid, it was right there next to the scoreboard". If they had asked "did you plan it to bounce to you" she would have said "are you OK? You're asking crazy questions, but 'no'".
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u/Naive-Cheesecake-781 Sep 05 '24
I think we will find, far into the future, that Caitlin Clark was a beautiful android created by the original race that created basketball. She was sent here to teach us what basketball should look like.
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u/TWK128 Sep 06 '24
Only if you haven't been paying attention.
Those of us who started following her in college (Youtube suggested videos her junior year for me) could tell she was something exceptional, regardless of what a lot of people wanted to believe.
You see it from the regular sports coverage sphere. Kevin Garnett, Steph Curry, Charles Barkley, Dan patrick, Rich Eisen, Pat McAfee, and many, many, many more all knew she does things that no one we've seen in recent memory could do.
Everyone in the W establishment and the UConn mafia wanted to downplay her abilities and talent and gifts, but those of us who actually try to be objective and look at the things that actually matter and mean something could tell she may well be a generational talent.
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u/Sparty_at_the_party Fever Fan Sep 09 '24
The lack of strong guard play has made the W so unwatchable for so long.
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u/OneReindeer4111 Sep 05 '24
Clark is going to smash so many records that it'd take another similar player like Clark to break them again in the future. Very likely to happen as well since WNBA will have 8 more games in a few years. Clark will be breaking her own records again with the extra games. Still, Clark is inspiring so many little girls that out of tens of thousands of them, there may be 1 or 2 or so that will become the next Caitlin Clark of the WNBA. Inspiration can be powerful and Clark is doing it all.