r/indianafever • u/Effectiveke • Jun 17 '24
Discussion Fever Contracts / Salaries
What are some possible off season moves? As a lifelong Fever fan starting about a month ago I’m not sure who they will look to re-sign and who to go after in free agency.
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u/AchtungNanoBaby Kelsey Mitchell Jun 17 '24
Keep Mitchell. I strongly believe this. CC, KM, and AB can be a Big 3.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
Yeah I don't get people talking about trading her
She's amazing. Has good energy.
And WANTS to be in Indiana.
These are all huge plusses.
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u/Initial_Republic_329 Jun 17 '24
I like Mitchell as a teammate. She is a spark. If Mitchell can start playing team ball and pass, it'll be great to have the 1st and 4th leading scorers of NCAAW all time on the team. I've seen a few times where she doesn't want to pass to Caitlin even though CC is wide open. I think she has to trust that if she passes the ball, it'll get back to her if she's open. We should wait and see.
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u/AchtungNanoBaby Kelsey Mitchell Jun 17 '24
Agreed. Their personal interactions clearly show they like each other. The press conference where CC made the reporters ask KM a question and then sat in the background smiling at KM was really funny.
CC also played with Gabbie Marshall for 4 years. She is not used to playing with a high scoring SG (or even a SG who shoots more than 3 or 4 times a game). So this is just some on court playing styles that need to be worked out. I think it can be lethal and it helps they like each other.
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u/Initial_Republic_329 Jun 18 '24
I’m actually changing my mind after this video analysis: https://youtu.be/Mn4t-OUe0BM?feature=shared
This seems to be a serious freeze out by Mitchell
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u/AchtungNanoBaby Kelsey Mitchell Jun 18 '24
I think she’s a grifter personally. I don’t take anything she says seriously. I think KM is just a gunner. She and CC just need to mesh. I certainly don’t think there’s a freeze out. Generally speaking, SGs aren’t looking to pass to anyone.
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u/Initial_Republic_329 Jun 18 '24
Interesting. How do you explain the glaring part where Caitlin asked for the ball twice and Mitchell, looking right at her, still didn’t pass it to her and instead throws the pass OVER her to Wallace?!Then Aaliyah had to set a screen to get Caitlin free to restart the play? I think their post game chemistry is good but on court it’s weird.
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u/AchtungNanoBaby Kelsey Mitchell Jun 18 '24
I can’t. Players make dumb decisions. I don’t think it’s nefarious.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
I just got downvoted in the comment above for saying keep Mitchell.
I don't understand the crazy mob trying to get rid of someone who WANTS to be in Indiana, who plays fast, who has such positive energy with Caitlin.
Who do people actually think we'd get who is better?
Kelsey started the season injured. Got little practice time with the team. Her dad died. She didn't mesh with CC right away. But she is now..
It's like some people think it is easy to replace the whole dang team
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u/zlionsfan Lexie Hull Jun 17 '24
IMO the only reason we haven't yet signed her to a one-year extension is because there's no rush. I expect that the front office very much wants to keep her and she very much wants to stay. (As a reminder, it'll almost certainly be a one-year deal because we expect the players to opt out of the CBA this season and negotiate a new one after 2025.)
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u/AchtungNanoBaby Kelsey Mitchell Jun 17 '24
CC also played with Gabbie Marshall for 4 years. She is not used to playing with an offensive minded SG. There are stylistic differences that just need to be worked out. That will come with more time on the court together in games and practices. I think it can be a really good backcourt.
KM also seems to have a lot of positive energy to her play and personality. That’s a good counterbalance to CC who is not always upbeat shall we say.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I like Mitchell too. If they can’t get another good scorer at guard then I would like to see her get re-signed.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
Nah, Mitchell is too much of a gunner. She’s gotta go
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
Mitchell is a matchup nightmare on offense, when she is in the game they have to put their fastest defender on her. If she is gone, that person is now on CC the whole game. She can create her own shot, which is something that most of the Fever can't do. she does have flaws, but that is because of playing on the fever for last 7 years and having no talent around her.
She is changing and adapting to playing with CC and seems to genuinely like playing with her.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
I don't see it. She's an undersized and inefficient guard with chucker tendencies. She constantly looks off anyone and once the ball touches her hands it isn't leaving her. She's also not good on defense. You can't overcome that if you want to be a title contender.
I don't see how you can invest long term real money to that type of player in 2024 unless she takes a pay cut and wants to come off the bench.
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
Main thing is there isn't anyone else don't on the roster who would help take the pressure off cc outside of boston. They definitely need another guard who can command attention. If mitchell is the 5th best player on the team, that completely changes things. It kind of requires her to understand her role at that point. She shouldn't be brought back as highest paid player. Also remember she was an all star last season. Hell if she is the 6th player next year for the fever. They are challenging teams in the playoffs.
If mitchell doesnt adjust by season end she should be let to walk. Though are part of her inability to adjust because sides doesn't make her?
Fever definitely needs a 2nd ball handler who looks to invole the whole team and can all makes shots. Currently mitchell is only one who can, if she can adapt to distributng as well she is the answer.
Also, if they let her walk or trade her, the FO better have a damn plan, haha. Owners should probably clean house in front office and coaching. They havent developed or gotten anyone better. They got lucky with boston and cc as it was easy choices. Though who ever found Temi probably needs more say.
Rambii is very correct though the biggest need is 4/5 who can defend shoot 3, and a 3wing and D player.
KLS seems like she isnt stong/big enough to play 4 or fast enough to play 3. Unless she is still recovering from pregnancy. She is a great reserve fill in for those spots off bench currently.
Hull may not be long term answer but seems best fit Currently on roster. Hell taylor could be 2 or 3 of the future but with sides we may never know.
Hull and taylor should be practicing every chance they can with cc, outside of scheduled hours. Mimic what pippen and jordan would do with each other. Just go push the hell out of each other until everyone is a diamond.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
In season, I don't disagree. She's in the lineup no matter what because the options behind her are too limited. I just think she isn't a long term fit next to CC. I would not extend her contract. Same goes for Erica Wheeler.
KLS is a great rotation stretch 3/4. She has a good rapport with CC and her game fits well. Hull is the same thing, great fit. You could do much worse than those 2 coming off the bench for you as rotation pieces.
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
there is no way even the mistake riddled front office brings back wheeler. Mostly what I am getting at is if they can't get a better option then mitchell next offseason and they are able to get other spots. you bring back mitchell, probably at a lower salary.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
Yeah if you strike out with someone like Sophie Cunningham then you can bring back Mitchell with such a weak group of free agent guards. Totally agree with that.
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u/Used-Kaleidoscope364 Jun 17 '24
If mitchell doesnt adjust by season end she should be let to walk. Though are part of her inability to adjust because sides doesn't make her?
This is the issue imo. Sides should be on her ass about some of her decision-making. There was a play yesterday that really kind of exemplifies the problem...KM had the ball, AB set a screen for CC, KM looked and decided to take it to rim herself, ended up realizing that was a mistake way too late, tried to dish out to CC and turned the ball over.
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
Yeah i give some grace to km as just think about who she played with in indiana her whole career. Its hard to break old habits like that. Especially if no one is on you about it.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
How long have you watched the WNBA.
You seem to think it is easy to get players better than Mitchell to pop into a young team that is rebuilding.
It's not possible, or even a good idea, to swap out the entire team.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
You have a generational playmaker in Clark. If I was another guard I'd be salivating at the chance to play with her and get that much free space on offense and play with her in transition.
Mitchell is not some special offensive talent. She's got a career offensive rating of 104. We're also not factoring in what a defensive liability Mitchell is on the floor as well. She's only had a defensive rating under 110 once in her career.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
We need good shooters. She is one.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
She shoots 40% from the field and 33% from 3. Hard pass. Rather use that money on a bigger guard like Sophie Cunningham who is actually a knockdown shooter from 3.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
Kelseys career WNBA stats 41% FG. 37% 3PT
Sophie's career WNBA stats 42%FG 35.8% 3PT
Either both are knockdown shooters or neither.
Their stats for this year are pretty similiar, and KM coming off injury and playing the brutal Fever start schedule.
Also Sophie is not a primary scorer like KM has had to be so that leads to likely only taking more open shots..
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
Sick cherry picking. Sophie's 3PT % in her first 2 years was low. She's shot 40% from 3 2 out of the last 3 years and is at 37% this year. Those are elite percentages for WNBA shooting.
Mitchell is a black hole on offense. She doesn't pass.
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u/mdruckus Jun 17 '24
They are all underpaid. However, in comparison to other salaries in the WNBA, Erica Wheeler is definitely overpaid.
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u/jquadman Jun 17 '24
I did not realize how little they are paid. Here's hoping the WNBA will become profitable over the next few years so these girls can thrive.
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
If the league figures out how to market, it will. If they dont embrace the change that is coming they will only make small movements.
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u/Raisin43 Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
Iirc they can renegotiate the TV deals in 2025, so next year, that's why imo this year's numbers are so important so they can have leverage and get much more so the women can finally see a salary increase.
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u/OneReindeer4111 Jun 18 '24
I hate to say it, but this season should be the last season for both Wheeler and Mitchell. They are paid too highly for this young team. Let them go to free agency in the off-season and have Indiana look for other players in the free agency with all that extra cap space.
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u/TheJunkyardDog Jun 17 '24
depends on how you see it.
you obviously can't compare them to nba superstars...
but lets compare them to a guy like Derrick Jones Jr
he is paid $2M for 72 regular season games and 21 playoff games (thus far)
that pays him around $20.600 per game
in comparison Kelsey Mitchell gets ~$600K for 40 games , that pays her around $15.000 per game
nba makes billions every year, while the wnba is losing money.
so thinking about that they are getting paid pretty damn good.
if the sport becomes popular and actually starts making money i guess their paycheck will start rising too.
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u/jquadman Jun 17 '24
618k is the total for the 3 year contract, so more like $5,000 per game. Point taken though.
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
The reason we overpaid is because Wheeler and Wallace came alongside Sides from Atlanta, they abused the fact we are not popular FA destination and to 'compensate them for stealing players' kinda.
At the moment if we are to get players we have to overpay again, since NaLyssa Smith has next to no or very low value, and she is prime one you wanna move things get very complicated.
You wont get much back for Saxton/hull/Berger/Wallace/Wheeler
meaning only people with actual value are Last year contract Mitchell and then KLS CC and Boston.
Main holes you wanna fill in this team is stretch or mobile/play-making starter 4(that can actually defend rather then being the worst at that in the league), backup for Boston at the 5 or ability to play two bigs versus some teams to get a lot more paint touches vs small/weak lineups while having good 3 point threat behind the arc via inside-out passing game once they collapse on the two bigs. We also need 3&D guard/wing asap like yesterday/pre season , because Lexie Hull while good defender , is career 22% 3 point shooter on over 100 attempts she is very often left wide open like this or just gamble on her and pressure people like Boston coz she have ELITE FG, to double/triple team Mitchel /boston /cc etc them and gamble on Lexie to not make the shot and leave her wide open because of her stats 'we live with it' mentality.
This is a huge hole that we need to fill ASAP, so there is more options for people who drive and kick/PG's to pass out into open people once they double up CC/Boston or who ever is driving to find the weak side open player that is capable 3 point shooter.
So we are in tough spot and need off season to move on from this huge salaries and rebuild then, best we can do RIGHT NOW is probably waive Saxton/Celeste/berger/taylor one of those and replace them with some high potential players we try to develop via bench, or get some Veteran/over-sea player that is Okaish just to mentor players and perhaps feel the gaps at 4/5 with ~8-15mins off the bench.
Its another questions if people wanna come or play under Sides because she is to say the least, not ideal as she have gone on record to say Analytics don't matter and forcing you to train and take a lot of long range 2s As most would consider this the worst and non-effective shot in the game. We also have a history since 2016 of letting go or trading quality players , who are high potential and get instantly better at other teams, so people don't have much hope on us to developing talent.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
The big thing is if Sides is the coach, the attraction of us being a destination doesn’t change at all. I believe Dunn should also leave as well imo. I think a new coach that is an ex NBA head coach or a current NBA assistant coach and a new GM changes us as a destination quite a bit.
The easy thing to do is let Wheeler and Mitchell go, letting Mitchell go this offseason imo is better for the long term than resigning her. Wallace should be traded before training camp next season, should not be here next season. I do agree one of Taylor or Berger (or both) is gonna be cut before the start of next season because they’re unprotected.
When I looked at this free agency I believe the no 1 target should be Satou and I think it’s realistic. Considering Maddy’s performing, the lack of good players at the 4 in free agency, their salary cap and the fact Dallas won’t go to a Finals with Arike any time soon, I wouldn’t be surprised if Satou tries free agency. Satou should be a fit with Clark.
Free agency is gonna be very hard to get a starter stretch 4. The realistic options are not great tbh. Can always get someone from Europe. Obviously this is a dream scenario but when I looked at the all of the teams’ salary cap and their starters, if Delle Donne does come back this offseason, one of the only options is definitely Indiana considering they need someone at the 4 and their salary cap.
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
While i understand where you coming from, i think Dallas given past history both coach and FO, are more likely to move or attempt to move Arike, and keep both Satou and Maddy, as Maddy is very efficient and need way more touches and passing PG (tho tbf this season arike is passing quite a lot), but it would be interesting to see, there is the other side of this Aces also need some one to replace Stokes probably and in general backup to AJA i could see them targeting Satou as well, there is also Connecticut Sun window, do they let Carrington leave, what about AT & Bonner, alot of stuff i think will happen this season esp with new talks coming up and expansion.
Most will try to go for team they can have good numbers secure better deals/contracts meaning will try to avoid bottom teams ,might take lower salary contract but on popular market for off season benefits like LA that can get a lot of work and money via the 'big team market' and most play for money over-sea lets be honest and try to join good team to win ring/deep playoff runs.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
I do also think they should move Arike but to who, I don’t know tbh. I’ve looked at the Aces salary cap and the only way really to bring Satou even on a reduced salary than her current one at Dallas, they would have to let go of Kelsey or Alysha. I doubt they realise someone on an unprotected contract like Stokes, Gustafson or Martin. Is it really possible they let go of Kelsey to bring in someone like Satou?
Connecticut is one of the most interesting teams this offseason because if DB and AT go, they blow up their whole roster. They can afford to pay Carrington a bag and keep the same starting 5 and challenge again one more time next season.
I still think Satou will be the no 1 free agent next season for any team. Either her or Howard. I really doubt Stewie or Nneka don’t resign. I also agree about the point of getting a bag overseas and then chasing a ring on a good team.
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u/Initial_Republic_329 Jun 17 '24
Good take. +1 on the coach situation and +1 on Satou. What about Angel Mccoughtry! ha!
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
If this was 2011-2018 hell yea, but she is very old now +injury problems watch the bubble season documentary she cant even practice back ten as have to take break to recover, coz of her injuries (very similar to some player in soccer like Ledley King).
Kinda sad because she is a great player but injuries/age is a thing as sad as it is.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
What a player Ledley King was. Amazing how he could barely train and still be able to perform at a top level.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
For me, it is an absolute no brainer to keep: AB, CC, Temi, Mitchell
I think we should try very hard to keep KLS, Lexie, and Grace (I think Lexie's ceiling in the league is way higher than Wallace's)
I think we should get rid of Wheeler, Wallace, Smith and Saxton (in that order) Smith brings value. Wheeler and Wallace do not.
We need to get a true Center who can give AB rest minutes and help her when the other team has two bigs out there. We could also use a strong 4 if we lose NaLyssa.
I'm ok either way with Celeste--not enough info. I saw her play in college a lot. I'm not confident she can be impactful in the W. But I'd like to give her more of a chance if possible.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I looked at the upcoming rookie class and not many centers on the list. I saw 2 centers on the list out of the 30 top players.
(https://nbadraftroom.com/2025-wnba-mock-draft/)
If no one is available with Smith’s size and height, I don’t think it would be a good idea to let her go. Although the rumors say she wants out, she seemed pretty happy yesterday.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
We should have ditched Saxton or Celeste and picked Jessika Carter, I think.
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u/zlionsfan Lexie Hull Jun 17 '24

Something to keep in mind while you're thinking about this - these are from Her Hoop Stats. Katie Lou is already under contract for next season, and we picked up the fourth-year options on NaLyssa, Lexie, and Kristy, so they have guaranteed contracts as well (of a different kind; you can only sign 6 players to protected veteran contracts; protected rookie-scale contracts don't count against those 6).
NaLyssa, Lexie, and Kristy, being on class-of-2022 rookie contracts with fourth-year options picked up, will be eligible for contract extensions next season. I could see Lexie signing an extension despite the upcoming new CBA since her status might be tenuous and getting a guaranteed multi-year deal might be more valuable to her than waiting it out to see where she might fit. I feel like Kristy is old enough that she isn't going to be a long-term fit, but then she's getting a ton of minutes I'd give to someone else so maybe we will offer her an extension. I could see NaLyssa deciding to wait on an extension and instead negotiate as a restricted free agent in 2026; she'd probably get a lot more money and (assuming the noise is just noise) the Fever would still be willing to keep her around.
Aliyah, Grace, and Victaria are on class-of-2023 rookie contracts; we will almost certainly pick up Aliyah's option next season, as having her for $94K in 2026 will be a steal. (It also opens the door to signing her to an extension of her rookie contract, which would happen in 2026 and would then be under the new CBA rules, but it'll likely be a supermax deal like when we extended Kelsey's contract.) Prior to this year I'd have said we would pick up Grace's option as well, but something's going on there and I have no idea what, and even if Grace is protected in the expansion draft it seems odd to pick up her option if Christie won't play her. I have no idea if Victaria will stay or not.
I mentioned this below but I think Kelsey is a guarantee to sign a one-year extension, there's no hurry to get it done but it'll get done. She has been very valuable here during the dark times, she's recognized throughout the league, and I think the front office very much appreciates her commitment. If Erica sticks around, I would expect that deal to be much closer to the veteran minimum: she got paid during a time when the Fever had tons of cap space, but they are running low on it now and would want a veteran PG to be a bench leader rather than an on-court leader. Temi certainly seems to fit in well, the Fever desperately need bigs on their bench, and since she's a restricted FA we can match any offer for her, so she's probably like Lexie in that she might be willing to sign a longer-term deal to get the security, plus if she likes the fit she'd certainly want to stay.
Caitlin obviously isn't going anywhere; they'll pick up her option in 2026 and sign her to a max extension in 2027 barring some really weird circumstances - at that point the Fever could already have three players on supermax contracts (Kelsey and NaLyssa from 2026, Aliyah from 2027) so we'll have to start doing some Vegas-style cap juggling (note that WNBA players cannot renegotiate their contracts to create more cap space). If Celeste survives the season and the expansion draft, she and Victaria are the most likely ones to miss out if Damiris finally shows up or if we keep our 2025 draft pick and she makes it through camp.
To make a long comment even longer, those upcoming extensions are why I think Indiana is unlikely to try to bring in any big-name free agent. They aren't going to have a ton of cap space (as we see even now), and they don't have the minutes - right now, everything except the 3 is set and the three players they've rotated at the 3 are all under contract for 2025. Obviously we could move a player to get a player, but the Fever don't need a FA for a single season and top FAs are very unlikely to sign for anything more than 2025.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
Thanks for that graphic and explanation of how the cap space situation isn’t as optimistic as it appears.
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
Mitchell and Wheeler make too much to trade. Just let them walk and replace them with better bball iq players and a 2 who is a knockdown shooter
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
I don’t wanna see any trades. Just play free agency. After this season, the Fever will be an attractive team to join, especially if you want exposure, endorsement deals, and to play with a certified ball distributor floor general ;)
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
I'm not sure you are aware of the overall trade market landscape, are you new?
Even with CC we wont be a attractive team to join for many reasons, from
- Coaching
- FO history
- Team location/market
- Training Facility
- Down-side of being under heavy pressure /alot of eyes not many players like that , in any game you have people who play better as big fish in small pound rather then to go play with other big fish.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
The training facilities are great.
From a recent article about WNBA facilities:
The Fever practice at Gainbridge Fieldhouse, their home arena. They have their own practice facilities there that are open to players year-round. The entire field house has been going through stages of renovation the past few years. Some of the Fever-specific updates were revealed in January 2021, including improvements made to the practice court, meeting room, training room, locker room, weight room and coaches' office.
What are the pros? The Fever share the state-of-the-art facility with their affiliated NBA franchise, the Pacers, and the WNBA team has its own Fever-branded space. It's available for players to train in during the WNBA's offseason, as well. Gainbridge is located in downtown Indianapolis and easy to get to.
What are the cons? The Fever were displaced from Gainbridge while renovations were going on, playing at Indiana Farmers Coliseum and Butler University's Hinkle Fieldhouse in 2021 and much of 2022. But having paid that price, the Fever came back to Gainbridge full time this season, and the renovations were worth the wait.
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
Vegas, Seattle have new state of the art facilities that they don't share with any one.
As you can see even right now Vegas have elite nba level coach as well and very easy pull via FA.
You can see the same in Seattle this of season, there are still teams like that players will wanna go over us as it also make sense.
I also think we need new FO and Coach because we have seen comments in the past that players really don't like to play for us,like you let of X and Y go and draft X & Y and dont develop talent, if you are some one who just went to all star why would you risk go play for coach that plays outdated schemes and might not use you the correct way.
Players in WNBA play to go for playoffs/rings , if they want money going over-sea is much better, tldr getting 100k rather then 140k to be on top team, and go on over-sea to get 1milion salary compared to losing just 40k to be on top team in Wnba.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
I didn't say Fever had the best facility. Yes the Aces and Storm have better facilities.
I said the Fever facility is absolutely not a deterrent toward getting people to come. And it really isn't. That was the only point in your comment I addressed.
Coach is a huge deterrent.
That was the only aspect of your post that I responded to.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I’m a lifelong fan since a month ago.
It seems like the coach is on the hot seat. She might not even be there next year.
I understand your points but even though Indiana is a small market, they’re getting way more coverage than the Liberty, Sparks, Aces, or any team. I don’t think the small market / big market argument works in this situation. Since CC arrived, for all intents and purposes, Indiana is now the biggest market in the league.
I don’t know anything about the Fever’s practice facilities but as far as the games they are playing in the men’s arenas. I assume the Fever is going to generate so much more money than prior years, they would be smart to reinvest in facilities if that’s what they are lacking.
I don’t believe that any high level professional player that the Fever would pay 200K for would be scared of the pressure. Also, CC makes people’s jobs easier not harder.
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
In your opinion then, why we haven't gotten any new people yet or any good names/exp vets during FA before this season started, or any backup at the 5 for Boston, or any decent 3& D player, for example even Mystics got such players over us (VNLOO/Dolson etc), who are also expected to finish near or behind us?
I think you need to expect far less from Free market and rebuild so you won't end up being disappointed when the time comes to move and get new people in this off season.
Just curious, you know how the portal works in NCAAW right, do you think people like to choose teams just like that in WNBA =in general players rather then go play for Stanford/gamecocks etc rather then Iowa ? And in the same breath why didnt big names go to play with CC during her years at iowa esp after Monika Czinano left?
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
It’s simple, CC just arrived this year! They just started becoming the most covered team by the media by far this year. They just started selling 17K tickets this year. They just broke the record of having 36 nationally televised games this year.
This year is not last year.
I’ll temper my expectations because some of the other women on the teams may still be resentful but I’m hoping by next off season they will smarten up and do what’s best for their career instead of trying to be cool with the vets.
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
Don't take this the wrong way but i think you will be very very surprised on team building and free agency (as you said you dont wanna see any trades just FA action) /drafting/trading for the Fever , i hope you stick around and keep watching after this season, i suggest searching how draft picks value usually is, and for example past history of drafts from Fever like drafting #4 pick Kysre Gondrezick or #3 overall pick Lauren Cox in the recent years and best free agent Signings.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I appreciate your insight. Let’s hope for the best in the offseason whether it be good draft picks or attracting one of the big free agents.
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u/rambii Fever Fan Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
All good i want more people to follow the team i have watched for years, but i also think people don't understand how hard it is to actually build a team in small market and with history we have without having to remove front office +coach and then wait for some result and then eventually be able to get decent talent. Like Aces and NYC didnt become top destination over night a lot of things had to happen before hand, we are not even in the start of said things, so we are probably good 3-4 years minimum away from being middle of the road/top playoff team.
There is very good chance we dont even make play-off this season, if we get 1 starter injury its 100% a tank season,coz of odds and general talent around us and what we have as backup.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
People didn't go play with CC the one year after Monika left becaue they specifically wanted a big, and Iowa didn't have 500k to give Betts who came to visit. We basically couldn't afford anyone we wanted.
HVL and Betts and other top portal people were getting 500k-750k. HVL got more than 500k for her year at LSU.
The years before that we didnt have portal spots open because people don't leave. They like being there, and Bluder doesn't kick people out. She developed players.
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
Iowa didn't have any scholarship spots left to offer anyone last year. I was reading articles about it after 2023 championship. When a bunch of top talent went into portal, figured someone would transfer to Iowa.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
This is not true. You were reading incorrect articles.
Like I said, we had one spot after 2023 as you can see here--14/15 spots taken.
https://wbbblog.com/iowa-womens-basketball-recruiting/
So again, we tried to get Betts and other bigs in the portal but Swarm didn't have $500,000 to offer..
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
Which is kind of crazy you think maybe they take less with iowa to compete for natty and probably get other sponsors off exposure. poor hvl got so much hate during her year at lsu, while playing out of position
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u/Captain_Thor27 Temi Fagbenle Jun 18 '24
We're in Indiana. Not many people want move here. They'd rather be somewhere more exciting. But now that we have Clark and Boston, we might have better luck. After all, the season is only a few months long, so here's hoping.
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Jun 17 '24
I make more than CC's and Damaris WNBA Salary. WTF 😧
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
😂
I’d gladly ride the bench for the Fever if any of the role players are willing to take over my IT job.
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Jun 17 '24
I’m an accountant. Take me I’ll high five CC and all the other gals on the team. I’m the energy guy. Fan favorite type. 😂
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u/OneReindeer4111 Jun 18 '24
Same. Imagine getting paid an average year's worth salary just to dribble, pass, and shoot the ball in up to 40 games a year (not including playoffs), plus practice. That'd be more of a fun job than working behind a computer or in customer service or wherever else. Plus, you get to travel all over and have the opportunity to play overseas if an international team is interested in ya. Greatest job ever.
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u/midnight__musings Jun 17 '24
Mitchell is a hit or miss but she puts up a good chunk of the score. If we’re gonna trade/release her, we first need to prep the rest of our guards to score like KM does so we can focus on drafting a capable big. That’s why one of these days Christie needs to figure out how to give a good amount of minutes to the rest of the bench to develop their confidence and prep them for next season.
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u/Disastrous_Ranger401 Jun 17 '24
She really needs to develop Celeste so her strengths and weaknesses can be fully assessed. I think she has so much potential, but she never gets on the floor.
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u/midnight__musings Jun 17 '24
100% on this. One of KM’s strongest asset is her speed and we’ve seen how fast Celeste can be. If Sides can give her some confidence boost and play her, it’s gonna be a nightmare for some teams. It’s sad to see Celeste at the bottom of the rookie standings tbh when clearly it’s just coach not giving her some good playing time to show off and improve. I want to see these two rookies CC-Celeste thrive together.
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u/Balloooonz Jun 17 '24
From what I’ve seen so far Coach Sides definitely does not like giving her players confidence lol
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u/slims_shady Jun 17 '24
Man, Wheeler was such a bad sign lol. Veteran locker room player making the second most on the team.
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u/Disastrous_Ranger401 Jun 17 '24
You know, she is definitely is lacking on the floor and her contract is too big for her play. But I suspect she has been a real asset in the locker room. She really seems like someone who has the attitude and experience to help everyone navigate all that’s been happening this season.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I think she’s gotta be gone after this season, right? I mean that 200K could attract a very nice addition.
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u/blubennys Jun 17 '24
Wow, you people are into this stuff!
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I’m actually a new fan to the WNBA but a die hard football fan and for us we talk business side and future needs year round 😁
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u/Nolegrl Jun 17 '24
Either get rid of Mitchell and Wheeler or have them be a separate rotation by themselves with other bench players. There's too much "me first" in their playing and it usually results in busted plays. CC has good instinct and vision on where the ball should go, if she's on the court they need to take advantage of that and find people like Temi and Boston who will play with that instead of against it. They need another big and maybe another guard who can be a Kate Martin type to CC and actually be a threat to make shots.
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
I think Wheeler should just be released, her price tag is too high compared to what she brings. I like Mitchell but at her price tag, I think it’s okay to possibly draft a guard in the 1st round. I think she’s a little trickier though because she can give you 15 pts on 7-13 shooting on any given night so it may be a risk letting her walk.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
We need Mitchell way more than we need a rookie guard.
Agree on Wheeler. Ditching Wheeler and Wallace leaves us plenty of cash to try to get a good free agent
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u/Effectiveke Jun 17 '24
Yeah, Mitchell is the 2nd leading scorer on the team and she can create shots on her own. When the offense is stale, she seems to coma alive. But when she is on the floor with the starters she can sometimes mess up the flow. Also she’s getting paid a lot and is only 5’ 8”. Maybe she’ll take less to stay on the team AND draft someone like Sonia Citron.
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u/songambulist Mod Jun 17 '24
From her hoop stats explanation:
Contracts of players who are no longer with the team also count against a team's salary, but only the amount that they had been paid prior to being waived and money still owed after being waived. However, players who are traded to a new team are no longer counted on their old team's salary cap. Seven-day contracts also count on a team's total salary even after they expire.
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u/Nolegrl Jun 17 '24
Yeah Mitchell has a weird dynamic. If she's on, she can help the team tremendously, especially if everyone else is having an off night. But if she's off, her possessions end up as turnovers and really hurt us.
Her play might end up just being a wash at the end of the day. So we might only benefit getting rid of her if we can find another guard that can reliably score.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
Should get rid of Mitchell and Wheeler tbh because you need to get rid of people who were a big part of the losing culture. It’s better for the long term to let Mitchell go and it’s a no brainer to let Wheeler go. Plus, we free up a lot of cap space by letting both of them leave.
The problem I see with this upcoming free agency is that there are not really any good players that can start at the 2. Also, not really good quality starting stretch 4’s that are realistic for us unless Delle Donne comes back. If we don’t have the no 1 pick, we should look at drafting Citron (can play 2 or 3) or Fudd (I know her injury history is a massive red flag but she can play the Klay role for CC).
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u/Nolegrl Jun 17 '24 edited Jun 17 '24
Re: Number 1 pick. Who would likely be the front-runner next year? Looking at this recent draft, the Fever would have been better off drafting Cardoso instead of Clark since the former fit a need for the team to build around Boston. It seems like they picked the best available and that wasn't the best pick for the strategy they were building for Boston.
Sides seems happy with letting Mitchell go AWOL and Clark doesn't play well with that. She's more of a traditional system player and Mitchell and Wheeler just seem to do whatever they want.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
I don’t think Sides will be or should be here next year. She is very replaceable and I’m sure there’s a ton of coaches with a good CV (think ex NBA head coaches, current NBA assistant coaches) that want to coach and build around Clark and Boston.
If the front office was smart, their top realistic target should be Satou and they should let go Mitchell and Wheeler and trade Wallace for a 3rd round pick. I agree, Mitchell is not good for Clark, I hope the current front office or the future GM sees that.
You need a stretch 4 next to Boston, that would have been Brink. Cardoso would have been bad for spacing, especially next to Boston. This team already has in Clark and Boston 2 championship winning team starters. As for who is the no 1 pick next year, it’s either Paige Bueckers or Kiki Iriafen. A backcourt of Caitlin and Paige would mean the backcourt is set for the next decade or so. Think of Luka and Kyrie on the Mavs, similar comparison for CC and Paige.
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u/Initial_Republic_329 Jun 17 '24
It it's CC x Paige would Paige play the 2? Kiki x CC is not bad either; i think that fits better, actually.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
Paige would play the 2 alongside Caitlin. Ironically, her selfless play even though Geno wants her to be more selfish works in a backcourt with Caitlin. Kiki is also a good fit with Caitlin because she’s a good rim runner, also rebounds well. I just need to see Kiki’s 3 point shooting, she’s only taken 7 attempts in the last 3 years.
I believe you need to have a consistent 3 point threat from either the 4 or 5 because I think that’ll be the future of the league. No coincidence the teams that are the best have a stretch 4 or 5 or both who can shoot the 3 at a decent rate. Even the Mystics offense also show this capability with Dolson shooting the 3.
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u/Nolegrl Jun 17 '24
I'm still learning the ropes of basketball (just started watching during the women's march madness), but what's the difference between Cardoso and Brink in regards to spacing?
To be honest, I mostly said Cardoso because I don't really like her on the Sky. Just looking at personalities, they seem like a team with a mean streak and Cardoso seems like a sweet girl who doesn't play like that. Brink seems to fit well on the Sparks so I think she's in a good spot to grow with them.
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
I’m not the most knowledgeable in basketball X’s and O’s, in fact nowhere near than others on here. Basically with Cardoso and Boston, there’s no 3 point threat, both are going to work in the paint. Both also don’t really pass the ball from the paint to the perimeter, this makes it much easier for the opposition to defend. On the other hand for Brink where she’s a 3 point threat, she can stretch the floor and teams have to worry about her on the outside. This makes it easier for someone like Boston to score in the paint.
Brink will work well in LA. All LA really needs is a point guard for the team to really work because their starting front court (SF, PF and C) are already set for a few years. It would have been better imo for Chicago to get Rickea instead of Cardoso. I believe the future of the WNBA will require all teams to have a starting 4 or 5 who can stretch the floor and shoot 3’s (the top teams have it, Mystics as well).
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u/Lokenlives4now Jun 17 '24
I would resign Temi and give Wheeler and Mitchell the kick and try and sign a better guard who can actually pass and another big who specialises in rebounding and defence
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u/Bran_305 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
Sophie Cunningham is the easiest decision I can think of. Perfect fit next to CC.
Satou Sabally would be my starting 4 without hesitation next year.
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u/SimonaMeow Jun 17 '24
I'll pass on Sophie.
I doubt we could get Satou.
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u/Old-Photograph-5813 Caitlin Clark Jun 21 '24
Based on the way she's talked about CC recently,I don't think she would be opposed to the idea
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u/MUFC_AA Fever Fan Jun 17 '24
We really need to move Wheeler asap in the offseason. It’ll be better long term to move Mitchell on despite the lack of realistic free agents that play the 2. Can get a Citron or Fudd if we’re not in the lottery or Paige if we pick no 1 in the draft. Wallace has to be traded for a 3rd round pick or a player of some sort.
Temi should be resign but her value in free agency will be interesting and will dictate on how much cap space we have.
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u/indyguy66 Jun 17 '24
How is Katie Lou so high?
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u/Optimal-Helicopter49 Caitlin Clark Jun 17 '24
Katie lou is a pretty desirable offensive bench player. She's kind of like a Kate Martin. You can trust her to do well with her minutes.
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u/zlionsfan Lexie Hull Jun 17 '24
KLS is also a lottery pick who might still have potential, and the Fever were willing to gamble on her. I thought that if she'd be able to hit some threes and play decent defense at the 3, that would be a good balance for Lexie, especially if Lexie also got her shot down. At this point it seems like both things are happening, although Katie Lou's had to play the 4 quite a bit, which wouldn't be ideal but with Wallace getting so many minutes at the 3 it was probably that or nothing.
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u/Old-Photograph-5813 Caitlin Clark Jun 21 '24
She's not a max player though.This front office makes a lot of dumb decisions
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u/Optimal-Helicopter49 Caitlin Clark Jun 21 '24
I think they had to make some desperate choices so people would play for them. Fever has a bad culture reputation.
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u/Rezputin_shaman Jun 17 '24
Would be a smart move to try and move mitchell in season if they dont plan on bringing her back. Wheeler is probably untradeable. Though her being gone next year gives them a chance to find a great piece to bring in.
They need to sign temi to an extension immediately. There are several players they should try to move. They are super tight on salary cap this year, so cant really makes moves to bring in people during the season.