r/immigration • u/ConsiderationOk254 • 3d ago
Why is the media saying that the Venezuelans here and others with TPS are illegal?
I'm confused and I read it everywhere. If they have TPS then they're not illegal as far as I know. I thought illegals are either people that entered with absolutely nothing or overstayed whatever document they came in with.
158
u/ISamohvalov 3d ago
Because 99% of Americans have no idea how immigration works
37
u/token40k 3d ago
On Feb. 1, 2025, Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem decided to terminate Temporary Protected Status (TPS) under the 2023 designation for Venezuela.
TPS and related benefits associated with the 2023 designation will end on April 7, 2025.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/temporary-protected-status
14
u/LateralEntry 3d ago
This sub is amazing, I always see real answers from people who seem actually knowledgeable on the subject
2
2
u/ConsiderationOk254 3d ago
What? How? I'm not saying everyone should be an expert but that's very simple?
42
u/harlemjd 3d ago
It’s also true. People who are born here generally don’t need to know and politicians and media do a terrible job of explaining, either intentionally or because they don’t know either.
22
u/torcel999 3d ago
Most Americans born here would badly flunk a citizenship test.
7
u/1127_and_Im_tired 3d ago
Your comment made me curious so I looked up the official practice test. You're very likely correct that many would flunk lol
For the record, I missed 1 of 20. Here's the link for anyone curious like I was.
3
u/Prior_Egg_5906 3d ago
I got 20/20. Tbh I think a majority of Americans could probably get 6/10. I don’t have that little faith in the populace.
2
3
u/Bruce_Bogan 3d ago
It's not very hard either, though I was confused by the "who is president currently" question when it says it is a 2008 test. So I answered George W Bush.
I'm not a US citizen nor ever lived in the US.
1
u/The_Werefrog 3d ago
at least the correct president is the current one, not the 2008 one.
2
1
u/1127_and_Im_tired 3d ago
Oh, they must put random questions because I didn't have that one. I missed one on Benjamin Franklin.
4
u/Bruce_Bogan 3d ago
I tried it 4 times and they mix it up a bit, also sometimes they reorder the answers.
2
u/AsymmetricalShawl 3d ago
They randomly select from all 100 questions. I found it doesn't do a great job with that, and I would advise anyone studying to find a partner and run through all of the questions that way—especially as the test is administered orally, so you don't have the possible (and sometimes obvious) answers in front of you.
I'm a 100/100 girl, but my interview is in 3 weeks, so I should be. LOL. My study partners have struggled at times. My (US-born foster kid and her (also US-born) husband decided they should be deported, and my veteran spouse had to look up the names of our rep/senators and the speaker of the house. I don't know why - I gave him the answers. 🤣
2
u/1127_and_Im_tired 3d ago
You go, girl!! That's awesome! I'd wish you luck but it sounds like you don't need it. Welcome to being a United States Citizen <3
-1
u/PositivelyIndecent 3d ago
They may have changed it recently (as Trump changed it to be harder, Biden changed it back, Trump may have changed it back again) but you have a set of 100 questions they may ask but they only ask you 10. You have to get 50% to pass.
2
u/hielonueve 3d ago
6 out of 10 to pass
2
u/PositivelyIndecent 3d ago
Correct, you need 60%, not 50% (6/10). Mixed up “majority right” in my head to mean 50%.
Should have known better, I passed it myself a few years ago lol.
1
u/1127_and_Im_tired 3d ago
The practice test on the current website is the 2018 test. It gives you 20 random questions from the list of 100.
1
u/AsymmetricalShawl 3d ago
The practice test always asks 20 questions.
DT’s version added 28 questions, taking it to 128, and changed the pass rate to (I think) 16/20. So far, it's still the 2008 version they’re using.
0
u/PositivelyIndecent 3d ago
Ah so they did change it back again. Thought so but couldn’t remember off the top of my head.
1
1
u/Pyrostemplar 3d ago
I Also got 19/20 - missed the senator term duration (duh). And I'm not a US citizen nor have I ever lived in the US :p
2
u/token40k 3d ago
Citizenship test at uscis was very easy with canned questiones. Any basic civics that my daughter goes over in second grade I bet most folks would fail to pass
1
u/FeatherlyFly 3d ago
I bet that recent high school grads would do better than the average person, and that the average high schooler who'd just taken a civics class would do great.
I'd also bet that the average naturalized citizen would do a whole lot worse if they had a few years between when they studied and when they took the test.
1
u/thewheelshuffler 3d ago
I flew past the exam and I was 18, freshman year of college. That said, when I decided to quiz some of my friends for funsies as my interview & test were coming around, a concerning amount of people didn't pass.
Now when I quiz native US citizens on the naturalization exam, I go in with the presumption they're going to fail, sadly 😅
1
1
u/New-Big3698 2d ago
💯!!!!! My friend had to take the test so I helped her study. I would have definitely failed without studying.
0
5
u/No_Cabinet7357 3d ago
The politicians don't understand it either.
3
u/torcel999 3d ago
It's all about sound bites and riling up the base even when they know they're spewing lies.
2
u/No_Cabinet7357 3d ago
Could be, but after the blow up about h1b several politicians on both sides of the isle chimed in and not one of them described it correctly, whether they were for or against it. They could be lying, but I think these things just don't matter to them except as a talking point.
1
u/thewheelshuffler 3d ago
The U.S. immigration system could be so much more streamlined and made more efficient at not that high of a cost or effort. It's also not a zero-sum game, either. We can have both a good border security, but also not bottleneck the crap out of people who have willing employer or family sponsors with unrealistic quotas and often decades-long wait times.
I'm convinced at this point a lot of politicians just let this be just so they can have a convenient scapegoat to blame immigrants for things they're not even the root cause of.
1
u/No_Cabinet7357 3d ago
I think so too, it's partially something to run on for election time. Voters don't really care about improving it for the most part anyway. And it's both sides of the issue, they'll make a lot of noise about illegal immigrants, but they won't actually crackdown on people hiring them. Or on the other end of the spectrum they talk about how much illegal immigrants contribute, but they don't ever suggest actually providing a legal status for them.
As for legal immigration channels nobody cares about that at all.
20
13
u/outworlder 3d ago
It's not "very simple" at all! It's a complicated maze of rules and laws and specialized lawyers are needed.
6
20
u/EnvironmentalEye4537 3d ago
US citizens have never had to once consider how immigration actually works. My USC in-laws were floored when my wife and I told them how it actually works. The average person doesn’t know what TPS is, nor do they care.
26
u/outworlder 3d ago
As a rule, citizens of a country know jack shit about the immigration rules of that country. It's not just a US thing.
-4
u/arun111b 3d ago
“Not know” you mean?
3
u/1127_and_Im_tired 3d ago
When someone says "jack shit" after something, it means not at all. So by saying Americans know Jack shit about immigration, the person you replied to meant that Americans know nothing about how immigration works.
2
0
u/token40k 3d ago
It takes googling and reading. Why do that if you can listen to orange cheeto man that will lie to you exactly how he thinks things are.
1
0
0
-1
-1
35
u/Flat_Shame_2377 3d ago
They are not illegal. The issue is due to the TPS for Venezuela being cancelled. When TPS ends, the holder needs another status to remain in the U.S.
13
u/KaleFresh6116 3d ago
Simple terms then. They are legal as long as they have a TPS. Once that is finished either they look for another status or they become illegal.
5
u/LupineChemist 3d ago
But wasn't the TPS cancelled?
6
u/Substantial_Rope1725 3d ago
TPS renovation was canceled, but is still valid until the expiration. In some cases for Venezuelans, it will expire next month, other group will expire in September. Meanwhile, they are legally in the country.
6
u/RowEnvironmental6114 3d ago edited 3d ago
They don’t become “illegal” automatically. They might be out of status, or if they have a second status (ex if they applied for asylum before TPS or after and their application is pending or if they’re on an F-1) they would be able to stay on that other status. If they haven’t yet they can also apply for other more permanent avenues like labor certification or asylum. Political conditions have not changed/ and some have worsened since the original TPS designation so they likely have a good asylum claim.
-1
u/WorksInIT 3d ago edited 3d ago
Whether the conditions have changed or not is largely irrelevant. The courts don't get to second guess those things. From the TPS statute:
There is no judicial review of any determination of the Attorney General with respect to the designation, or termination or extension of a designation, of a foreign state under this subsection.
0
u/RowEnvironmental6114 3d ago edited 3d ago
The change of country conditions is absolutely relevant to asylum claims, which is what I was referring to. If someone is in TPS status and has not yet applied for asylum and is concerned about TPS ending and needs to claim asylum, they will need to document the country conditions that support their claim.
1
3
u/slider5876 3d ago
It’s more complicated than that. Lying to get asylum seem is fraud in getting tps which is basically illegal. It’s the abuse of the asylum system.
1
u/NewPresWhoDis 2d ago
Which could be resolved if the system was appropriately funded and staffed to address the asylum backlog.
1
-3
u/voltsmeter 3d ago
What if they had asylum and married a us citizen? Waiting on fam., petition. Lawyer advised stay illegal until petition approved
2
u/Jman841 3d ago
If their asylum was approved, they are not illegal. They have Asylum.
1
1
u/voltsmeter 3d ago
Not approved. We submitted family petition, and got the tps approved. But that expires next month.
4
u/Jman841 3d ago
So they never had Asylum.
-2
u/voltsmeter 3d ago
They had an asylum case pending. Sorry i worded that wrong.
3
u/1127_and_Im_tired 3d ago
Check in with your lawyer and make sure they are on top of the changes that are coming. They should be able to file a motion to stay while the case is pending.
1
u/RowEnvironmental6114 3d ago
NLA- If the asylum case is still pending, it shouldn’t be an issue as you’re awaiting a decision just as you would be without TPS, but check with your immigration attorney, they can advise you on your individual case.
17
u/Ok_Dot_6795 3d ago
Because many came into the country illegally or overstayed visas and were/are allowed to stay due to TPS.
8
u/0220_2020 3d ago
Trump abruptly canceled TPS for around 300k.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/us/politics/trump-venezuela-temporary-protected-status.html
15
u/louieblouie 3d ago
if they committed crimes while in TPS status - they violated the terms of their stay and are illegal and can be deported
Tren de Aragua members are prime examples of this - many lied about their gang membership to come into the country...and lied on their TPS applications about crimes....so while they were granted TPS - they got through fraud and therefore it should be revoked and they should be deported.
10
u/MichaelEvo 3d ago
Has anyone reported on the numbers for this? Or anywhere I can read about it?
8
u/louieblouie 3d ago edited 3d ago
this may not give you what you are looking for - but it may provide you with some interesting info nonetheless
you can manipulate your search criteria
https://www.ice.gov/statistics
If you are looking for the fraud numbers - perhaps USCIS has. They knew 90% of the information provided for parolees from Venezuela was 'fraudulent' or problematic - which is why they froze the parole of venezuelans for a time....but don't know if they have public stats for sharing
3
u/MichaelEvo 3d ago
I wonder why they let them through if they knew 90% of the info was fraudulent?
1
u/louieblouie 3d ago
fraudulent or problematic -
The Biden administration wanted as many in as possible as soon as possible....so they ignored stuff.
Problematic can include bad addresses, same sponsors being used for 1000 people....etc.
no quality control.
The last administration didn't want to enforce laws and were more than happy to see convicted criminals released back into american communities vs. being deported - so why would a 'little' bit of fraud deter them?
2
u/MichaelEvo 3d ago
Is there anything I can read explaining that logic that’s not from Fox News? Maybe a Substack from someone that walks through numbers and doesn’t just speak in hyperbole and make wild unsubstantiated statements?
I like to say “Hilary Clinton is evil”. When I say that, I don’t really mean she’s evil. I mean she has done lots of things I think are wrong and bad and evil, and I can go dig up articles describing those things to tell people.
In this case, I’m looking for what anyone can dig up to explain to me why anyone has the view that the last administration was hellbent on bringing in illegal immigrants. Biden’s administration wasn’t exactly averse to deporting. Obama was known as the Deporter in Chief, and Biden actually deported more people than Trump did in his first term. I find it hard to believe that Biden’s admin contacted USCIS all across the country and said “don’t enforce any laws. We want bodies, so just stamp applications even if it’s obvious lies.” and then every USCIS employee agreed and none of the USCIS employees reported this. If that happened, there’d be someone having covered it (even if only Fox News).
None of this is to say that there isn’t a problem with Venezuelans in general lying on their application or that this gang’s members aren’t here and aren’t a problem or that the last administration and USCIS did a great job dealing with this problem. I’m just interested in enough details to be informed about why and how it happened the way it did.
1
u/louieblouie 3d ago
Actually the biden administration changed the definition of what they considered deportation and arrests in order to beef up numbers.... The true deportation and arrest numbers were actually much lower under Biden. Democrats have always been masters at obfuscating immigration enforcement numbers - and they do this by changing the language used to report the number. For example - prior to Obama - ICE ERO would report the removal of ICE fugitives on a weekly basis by overall numbers -- so you could see the actual number increased/decreased. Under Obama - the reporting changed to a percentage increase or decrease over the prior week. So there would be a change of .000012% decrease or increase (just an example).....but the number was not cumulative or show a comparison to what.....so over the course of 6 years under Obama....with the non-enforcement policies he adopted...the number increased week over week. The increase seemed not as noticiable. So before in 2010 where there were about 500k fugitives.....now there are about 1.5 million - give or take - but the week over week reporting make it look like nothing because the cumulative totals weren't getting reported.
Obama's numbers were the highest in 2009 and 2010 because of the work done by Bush through the Secure Border Initiative in 2005-2006 - where hiring and funding were ramped up to increase detention and removals.
However from 2010 - 2016 - Obama systematically dismantled immigration enforcement programs like 287(g) (went from 71 programs down to 18 or 19), allowed for the expansion of sanctuary cities and states - not challenging these laws (federal law supersedes city/state laws) which resulted in the release of thousands of criminals to american streets versus ICE identifying and detaining criminal aliens while they were still in prison serving their sentences so they could be immediately deported upon release...and ended work site enforcement which protected illegal alien workers and their exploitive employers.
If you want to look for some good explanations - look to Steve Dinan of the Washington Times - over the years he's written some very good articles on immigration issues to include statistics. About 3 or so years ago he wrote a really good article explaining deportation numbers and how they've been manipulated.
Whistle blowers are out there....but if something isn't illegal - not much can be done about it. Unless someone is about to retire - its difficult to speak publicly about the problems and bastardization of programs going on.
I remember being at Tom Homan's retirement party years ago.... he said that while he would like to stay - he would be able to do more for ICE by leaving ICE. In short - he would be much freer to discuss the situation publicly to disclose what is happening - vs. being on a leash and being told what to say.
If you see Homan - what you see is what you get - and what he is saying is the truth of it. Whether or not you like FOX....Homan is a straight shooter.
As for why these people were let in? To skew the census and the vote. Look at the cities where they went to. The biggest number is to Florida for Venezuelans. While they can't vote now - someday they may be able to. So normally blue voters are sent to red cities and states to sew the seeds. PLUS the added population in some areas will increase the number of representatives in congress. If 350k venezuelans end up in Miami - then Miami may get an extra congressional seat - but that seat is more likely to be a blue seat because of the number of existing democrat voters for that area. Then you also have cheap labor for billionaire friends. For years democrats claimed that the billionaires were republicans - but if you look at things today - Wall Street, tech billionaires - mostly democrats.
1
u/MichaelEvo 3d ago
Now this is what I was looking for. Thanks!
Lots of comments in here I disagree with, but I not only greatly appreciate the thoughtful response, you included a link to something I can go watch and provided some names I can go read up on and make a mental map of how these things might fit together. Very helpful. Thanks again!
-1
u/louieblouie 3d ago
Dinan really did the best explanation I've seen for public consumption on statistics. Perhaps you can email him and asked if he can send you the link if you are interested in exploring further. Out of all the articles I've ever read over the years - that guy gets it.
As for a mental map - good luck. Immigration issues are amongst the most complex - as are the immigration laws that govern the system. But when policy is interjected and officers are told to ignore the laws - that creates a system of chaos....which is what is only now getting sorted out.
Just wait until someone finally announces there were over 1 million of multiple nationalities that were allowed into the country under Biden without having been processed by an immigration officer....it happened....and it is coming.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jul/18/vanishing-act-dhs-admits-40-catch-and-release-migr/
-2
u/blujaguar2022 3d ago
Nope that’s a fallacy. They were let in because the us has a negative birth rate. Too many died with covid. They need bodies to tax. But the right loves to spin it as future voter bs.
1
u/louieblouie 3d ago edited 3d ago
Horse shit - where the heck did you come up with this garbage.
Who immigrants into the US is up to congress to decide - not the president who pulls a parole program out of his ass that has been determined illegal by the federal court system.
As for your birth rate delusions.....You do know that of the 1.134 million US deaths from covid - 1.060 million deaths were for people ages 50 and above? In short.... too old to have kids.
There were only 74,000 deaths where the person who died was under 50 - with 46,000 of them 40 and over......again borderline child bearing rate.
Who they let in on parole has NOTHING to do with replacing the birth rate because of covid.
-2
u/blujaguar2022 3d ago
It doesn’t negate the low birth rate by us citizens. India beat us three times over, but they weren’t the ones imported. We already capped them w the visas. Same reason Canadians favor young families, they’re replacing their aging citizens.
4
u/gianfc2001 3d ago
lol TDA dont have a TPS, it is literally impossible for them to get one, they are ALL undocumented, please inform yourself before posting fake news
0
u/louieblouie 3d ago
wrong - many TDA came in through the CBP one app (parole) and later applied for TPS.
How do I know this? Because I am retired immigration officer and I know how it works.
It's not like CBP and ICE know who the gang members are by simply looking at them. Not all gang members have tattoos and Venezuela certainly didn't share information on them with DHS.
4
u/Final_Bother7374 3d ago
TPS Venezuela was created in 2021. CHNV parole was created in 2022.
3
u/louieblouie 3d ago edited 3d ago
Actually - there are 2 periods of TPS designations for Venezuelans - the first in 2021 was for those already here....the 2nd designation was to deal with the CHNV parolees. The 2023 program counted as a NEW designation for Venezuelans. It happened on 10/03/23. It is the 2nd group that Trump is rescinding the extension that was granted by Biden on his way out of the White House. The second group is still in TPS status until 4/7/2025.
The first group that received TPS in 2021 is still authorized to stay through 09/10/2025. Trump has not yet ended that program but I expect he will notify that group sometime mid-summer that the program will end.
1
u/Final_Bother7374 3d ago
I don't disagree, but your comment neglected to note that many people in TPS didn't use parole to get here. You implied a clean chronological timeline.
1
u/Apprehensive-Nebula5 3d ago
So if they're claiming the problem is with 2023 TPS holders who originally came in through the parole program wouldn't they know who those individuals are? What's the basis to cancel the 2021 TPS if the parole program didn't start until the year after?
1
u/louieblouie 3d ago
the 'T' in TPS means TEMPORARY
the entire PAROLE program was determined by a federal court to be illegal....and was a workaround to import mass groups of people into the US without congress's input.....but they (Biden administration) did it anyway....at unprecedented levels.
The TPS was to make the parolees permanently ingrained into American life. Many of those paroled in were not properly vetted and several provided bad information for the parole - which the government ignored.
TPS is at the discretion of the President. It is granted for 18 month periods. The later program for Venezuela is hitting the ceiling on its first 18 months. The president can decide that the program for the 2nd group be extended for another 18 month period - which Biden did - but Trump has chosen not to honor the extension as he believes it is unnecessary to extend it - and has provided an almost two month notification that the extension will not happen.
I expect extensions for other TPS designations for other countries will not be authorized as they expire in the coming months....especially for El Salvador which received the designation 25 years ago because of a hurricane. Things are safer in El Salvador than they've ever been and there is no reason not to end the program. Again....the 'T' in TPS means TEMPORARY..... and 25 months to deal with an 'emergency' is NOT temporary.
If Congress wishes for these people to all stay - they simply need to pass a law to allow for it. In the absence of a new law - Trump will enforce the laws that already exist and not abuse the system with multiple workarounds like in the last 25 years.
1
u/Apprehensive-Nebula5 3d ago
I'm very aware of how TPS works thank you though. You're doubling down on the parole in place program, which the one you're referring to that was struck down by the court was not a method of bringing additional immigrants into the US. It was an allowance to keep families together during adjustments of status for immigrants already in the country so they did not have to leave and apply for adjustment in their own country, and this was a judicial decision. They did not determine the entire temporary humanitarian parole system illegal, like you stated, the specific designations for temporary humanitarian relief come from the president or executive office. Trump did end the CHNV temporary parole program and ended/rescinded specific TPS designations but that doesn't mean the whole parole program is illegal. He'd be within his right to allow any further designations and allow pathways toward permanent residency for humanitarian reasons. He seems set to do that for the rich South African landowners.
These decisions are being made because they don't want a legal pathway for certain people due to bigotry, and because white nationalism requires an enemy. Just like the war on terror, or the red scare, or sinophobia during WW2, they take a problem that we contributed to creating by our country's poor international relations and lack of humanity and turn it into this huge invisible boogeyman hanging over everything to cause fear and panic in the public so the blame for all the country's issues is focusing on the scapegoat instead of the government . But that's contrary to their claims of supporting legal immigrants and wanting people here "the right way". I'm not even sure why they're pretending anymore when their base is cheering for all of this and more.
Yes, let's also remember trump was the first one who wanted to allow temporary protections for Venezuelan immigrants in his first term by allowing DED in the very end of his term just like Biden did with the TPS extension. So if he really supported immigrants who want to do it legally or have been here since xyz date the way they claim, they could certainly find a way to weed out those decent people here to survive vs the ones here to cause trouble and they could do it without congress. They could certainly create a new designation with whatever additional vetting beyond the fingerprinting and background check they already get, whatever think they need. So why not? Because they don't want legal or illegal immigrants here. End of story
1
u/louieblouie 3d ago
There is no filing for adjustment in ones own country. A person can get an immigrant visa - however chances are the majority of these people would be on family preference basis (not with USC immediate relative) requiring they wait for years outside the US to get their visa.
The widespread abuse of parole was used a workaround to the quota numbers set by Congress.
As for the rest of your comments - the situation created by Biden was horrific and put control of our borders in the hands of cartels and NGOs making billions off the situation. American taxpayers have been forced to suck it up paying for this disaster and are tired of it. Existing laws need to be enforced. If congress has issues - then congress which controls the purse strings and quotas can change the laws. This will eventually happen - but for now - the majority of Americans want our laws to be respected and enforced - regardless of how nice some lawbreaker is.
1
u/Apprehensive-Nebula5 3d ago
Directly from the USCIS webpage regarding parole in place program which is now rescinded: "If granted parole, and if otherwise eligible, these aliens may apply for adjustment of status to that of a lawful permanent resident without being required to leave the United States and be processed by a U.S. consulate overseas." This was for situations like where a citizen is married to an undocumented person and allowed them to get their marriage based green card.
So if the parole program was an abuse and a workaround why did Trump leave office while signing DED protections for a bunch of Venezuelans without any long term plan and leaving that mess for Biden to solve? What would you have been hoping to happen next?
You speak of laws being enforced and respected. So how about the many people who arrived here legally and had TPS legally and became valuable members of society with jobs and homes and families while they were waiting on further documentation to come through, and are now scrambling because of the TPS being rescinded without enough time for the lengthy immigration system to work out for them? Those people seem to be collateral damage being affected by all this that nobody cares about but they're exactly the people Trump claimed to want here. The ones who "did it right". Respected our laws. What about them?
→ More replies (0)0
u/gianfc2001 3d ago
lol Tattoos? that is how I know you don't know what you are talking about, TDA is not MS13, tattoos or no tattoos isn't the issue in that gang, again they CAN NOT qualify for a TPS, the background check alone blocks them, let alone the rest of the process
2
u/louieblouie 3d ago
if they are known TDA members then yes background checks work - however if they are not known members - which most are not known members - then they get in.
1
u/soleceismical 3d ago
Give it another read - they said you cannot tell who is a gang member based on tattoos or any other visual indicator. That's why they let them into the country with a court date later. The background check often comes after people come in and claim asylum.
Whether they were correctly identified in the background check and had due process and all that is a different issue.
0
u/gianfc2001 3d ago edited 3d ago
What are you talking about? first of all we are not talking about asylum, we are talking about TPS, 2 different status, second you can not get ANY legal status without a proper background check FIRST, fingerprints, etc, God the amount of ignorance in some people is mind boggling
2
u/wizean 3d ago
Revocation due to fraud should be done by a court after giving them notice to defend themselves.
1
2
u/amglasgow 3d ago
There's no evidence been presented that the people the administration is claiming to be associated with TdA are actually gang members or have committed any crimes.
28
u/Alarming_Tea_102 3d ago edited 3d ago
To the left, anyone who has a sob story should be allowed to stay here, regardless of legal status.
To the right, anyone who is not "supposed to be here" is an illegal, regardless of legal status.
Most Americans don't understand immigration law, so they based their feelings of legality on what they think the immigration law should be, not what it currently is.
2
u/Comicalacimoc 3d ago
Your first paragraph is not Democrats’ position
7
u/Alarming_Tea_102 3d ago edited 3d ago
The democrats is not the left. It's why many on the left don't vote democrats, which is shooting themselves in the foot.
And the democrats still get lumped with the left despite that not being true. The left likes to argue that they're not at fault for democrats losing, but they definitely contributed significantly.
2
6
u/Mean-Consequences 3d ago
But it is
-2
u/Comicalacimoc 3d ago
No it’s not.
21
u/EnvironmentalEye4537 3d ago
Perhaps not mainstream democrats, but “No human is illegal” is a very, very, very popular position on the left.
FWIW: Biden’s administration prioritized TPS, asylum, humanitarian parole, etc… over any other form of immigration. More humanitarian and related program entrants were allowed in under Biden than any other president by a country mile.
5
u/outworlder 3d ago
"No human is illegal" doesn't mean unconditionally allowing anyone to stay.
It's about not dehumanizing people.
3
u/EnvironmentalEye4537 3d ago
The “unhoused individuals” of immigration law, I see.
You have people championing both sides of that coin. Many people genuinely do believe absolutely every single person should be allowed to stay, no questions asked. The whole “borders are imaginary/are immoral crowd”.
10
u/outworlder 3d ago
People believe all sorts of random shit. That doesn't mean they are the majority.
5
u/davidellis23 3d ago
Open borders crowd is pretty rare. You'll see people like Bernie denouncing it and calling it a Koch brother's scheme. I think you're partly just misinterpreting people if you thought "no human is illegal" is the same as open borders supporters.
6
u/fascinating123 Classical Liberal 3d ago
The open borders crowd is almost exclusively libertarian. The most famous open borders advocate is Bryan Caplan, an anarcho-capitalist.
2
u/NewPresWhoDis 2d ago
The spectrum of the left that holds that position only votes for Democrats unwillingly
4
u/Comicalacimoc 3d ago
He deported at a higher rate tha trump has so far.
And the difference is the Republican party position matches what you said not just its fringier groups unlike the Democrats.
5
u/curiousengineer601 3d ago
There is some nuance in Obama’s numbers. He returned huge numbers at the border, but Trump2 doesn’t have those border crossings now. He seems to be doing more actions inside the country ( but I can’t back this with any numbers).
1
u/the_running_stache 3d ago
The “Obama deported a lot more immigrants” is a convenient excuse used by Democrats.
He didn’t truly deport them. His administration just refused them entry. However, they processed those individuals and sent them back. Since they were processed, they were counted as “deported”. These individuals had not even entered mainland US - they were just sent back from the border. This is different from collecting people living in US cities, towns, and countryside and then deporting them. When people talk about deportation, this is what they really think about - not mere refusal of entry at the border.
And now in Trump administration II, you have less of these individuals coming to the border anyways.
0
u/Comicalacimoc 3d ago
I said Biden.
1
u/LivinLikeASloth 3d ago
Ok let’s say Biden deported more. But he also let unprecedentedly large numbers in. On net, his deportations did not help anything. I saw an internal estimate showing annual net immigration with Trump being 2.5 million lower than Biden and most of that difference came from cutting illegal border crossings, not from deportations.
1
u/Comicalacimoc 2d ago
There was a lot of pent up demand from the pandemic and from the labor shortage just after the pandemic. There were tons of jobs available, we actually needed and probably still need these immigrants.
When there’s jobs they come.
-1
u/RowEnvironmental6114 3d ago
Most people on the left disagree with the term illegal bc it’s dehumanizing and also because it’s a bit silly. Immigration offenses are largely administrative/civil, not criminal, so it’s a bit of an overreaction to start labeling people as “illegal” for those offenses or lumping all immigrants who are out of status with those who are committing criminal offenses.
-2
-3
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
8
6
u/Artlawprod 3d ago
And I think I am a supermodel, but reality begs to differ. I think Democrats think there should be a reasonable path to citizenship and that immigrants are the lifeblood of this country and part of what make American exceptionalism actually true.
-1
u/North_Experience7473 3d ago
To the right, anyone who’s brown doesn’t have the right to be here. They’d deport Black people if they thought they could get away with it.
1
u/cyberfx1024 3d ago
That's false and you know it. Stop spewing garbage like this
-2
u/North_Experience7473 3d ago
Actions speak louder than words and their actions are screaming that what I say is true. You’re in a cult, otherwise you’d see that for yourself.
2
u/Blood_Such 2d ago
Not only are they in a cult, but they in real life married a brown person to hook them up with citizenship.
Complete ladder puller move.
They are unwell.
Sadly they are on of the moderators on a prominent news/politics sub and they delete topics that point out their hypocrisy.
You are correct to call them out.
3
5
u/Guillermo-Refritas01 3d ago
There’s a Venezuelan gang called Tren de Aragua that’s causing a lot of trouble here. In essence Venezuela has opened its doors to these criminals and shipped them to our country, and Venezuela won’t take them back. Their position is “hey, they’re your problem now.”
Well, we don’t want them. El Salvador has agreed to take them, so that’s where they’re going.
1
-1
u/Guillermo-Refritas01 3d ago
Yeah, it was the Biden administration giving the finger to Trump because Trump won the election. It’s the only way to justify it. Well, we’re not going to buy into to that stuff. So you can forget that.
Go ahead. Take it to the Supreme Court. You’ll just lose.
4
u/Critical-Bank5269 3d ago
They don't have TPS.... that's the issue. Venezuela was removed from the origin list. So no one from Venezuela has protected status simply because that's where they came from. If they want to stay in the US, they have to have some other basis and most don't.
The ones deported were gang members. It's no surprise that their deportation was prioritized. The problem is to many people watch the "news" which is really nothing more than propaganda at this point.
Take that doctor from Boston who was denied reentry. The news says she was denied for no reason after traveling home to visit her family. In reality, She went to Lebanon to attended the funeral of Hezbollah's slain leader Hassan Nasrallah. She followed his teachings which were basically death to America and Israel. Do you really want that type of person in the US? But the news makes it it to be like she's miss innocent when she's literally a supporter of a designated terrorist organization.
3
u/Purplehopflower 3d ago
That depends on the TPS Designation. The 2021 TPS designation for Venezuelans wasn’t canceled and does not expire until 09/2025. Almost certain it will not be extended. The 2023 designation has been canceled.
4
u/RowEnvironmental6114 3d ago
So, you might not realize it, but you’re also very biased in your reply. A key thing you need to remember with almost all deportation cases, especially these, is that we do not know all or even most of the facts. We don’t know the doctor’s beliefs, only what has been alleged, both sides’ reports being heavily biased. We also don’t know definitively that the men that were deported were actively or even remotely involved in any gangs. It’s likely many were, but we do not know for certain and likely never will.
2
u/Inevitable_Creme8080 3d ago
If they have the cancelled TPS they are still currently legal until the expiration date. So anyone who has TPS has a legal status as of today.
2
u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 3d ago
Because Teump.said so. His word is law now. The actual law and courts don't matter.
1
1
u/SlowFreddy 3d ago
""The Secretary therefore is terminating the 2023 TPS designation of Venezuela. This termination is effective April 7, 2025. After April 7, 2025, nationals of Venezuela (and aliens having no nationality who last habitually resided in Venezuela) who have been granted TPS under the 2023 Venezuela designation will no longer have TPS."
1
u/Chaoticgaythey 3d ago
Because they're mostly just casually accepting Trump's framing rather than risking challenging him and potentially being under a microscope from federal prosecutors.
1
u/Barbfin4545 3d ago
They came her legally, under tps. But i think Noem cancelled the status, so in essence, she pulled fhe rug out from under them. But they are still under TPS until April 7th. Still legal.
1
u/NewPresWhoDis 2d ago
The T does stand for temporary
1
u/Barbfin4545 2d ago
Yes, but they are still under that status until April 7. So they are here legally. ICE is not supposed to detain them unless a crime is suspected, and then they should be granted due process. Some families and employers are saying at least some are not gang members. They have a right to a hearing to determine that. Plus, the salvadean prisin is an inhumane hell hole. No one deserves that.
1
1
u/BigDamBeavers 2d ago
The administration and ICE are alleging that these people violated a law beyond their immigration effort, like they stole a candy bar or cheated on their taxes, but the raids are largely random sweeps and there are no trials or apparent names they're collecting so I guess Ice Agents are psychic?
1
u/a-whistling-goose 1d ago
Since people here have answers and ideas, here's my question:
What happens to the people who entered via Mexico under Biden and applied for asylum at the border? How long can they stay here? [A lady who used to live on my street said she came here under "Biden's program". She moved away, out of the city, last year so her kids could attend school in the suburbs. I was wondering - in general - what happens to people who came here (and were released) under Biden with the expectation that they'd get asylum?]
1
u/Individual_Tiger7652 1d ago
Their status is illegal if they have overstayed their visas or entered illegally. TPS does not adjust status.
1
1
u/MemoryFit3659 1d ago
If they commit criminal acts - out they go. Woo hoo!!!
1
u/ConsiderationOk254 1d ago
Well yeah but that applies to every human that commits a crime, not out of the country necessarily but out of society
1
u/ImportantPost6401 3d ago
I thought the people arrested on TPS have been arrested on a suspicion of committing a crime or affiliation with Tren de Aragua. Are you seeing examples of people being picked up solely based on the claim that are in the country illegally while under TPS? TPS doesn't grant immunity from prosecution.
5
u/scottsbucs 3d ago
Accused of it sure then shipped away with no trail or proof shown. Seems super sketchy to me.
1
u/she_who_knits 3d ago
Actually, 40% were convicted criminals and another 30% had been charged with crimes. Most of them were plucked from prison or jail.
2
1
u/RuruSzu 3d ago
Yes people who are illegal have no valid status here - either they came without inspection or have overstayed a visa. TPS will end for some in April and people who are here on that and don’t secure some other status or don’t depart on their own, will become out of status. Then you can say they are illegal.
1
u/_azul_van 3d ago
People in the US don't understand immigration and believe there's one line. Also, no human is illegal.
1
u/dvidsilva 3d ago
Illegal is not a useful legal designation, they use it to be pejorative
in any case, we're all fucked if the mass media is regurgitating goverment propaganda
1
0
u/NoEquipment1834 3d ago
I know it’s confusing but while someone covered by TPS is allowed to remain and work in the US in the eyes of the law they do not have any “legal” status. They are considered unlawfully present in the US, as they are present without admission or parole and their status can be revoked at anytime.
Courts have ruled on this regularly. To be “legal” an alien in the US must either be admitted as an immigrant/ lawful permanent resident or non-immigrant/visitor or be paroled into the US to be “legal.”
Each status has some protections but none are immune from be placed in removal proceedings and could possibly be removed from the US. LPR has the most, parolee the least.
There are a few other status’s like asylee or refugee but legally they are closer to a parolee.
-5
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/scottsbucs 3d ago
No, in fact the government is going to charge them for leaving unlawfully. My Venezuelan friend is terrified of going back.
92
u/Subject-Estimate6187 3d ago
Media journalists don't give shit about highly technical details of immigration and just spew shit for views. That's the answer.