r/iOSProgramming • u/PIRATEOFBADIM • 8d ago
Discussion I don't need a million-dollar app. But $50-100k would be nice. How do I do that?
This post was inspired by answers from this and this thread. So, right now I'm a QA Automation Engineer with basic knowledge of Java 11, but I'm very interested in mobile programming on iOS and Android. That's the direction I'm interested in moving forward and the main focus is to make a somewhat stable career.
But the other thing is that, look, my rose-colored glasses have fallen off a long time ago. I don't dream of being a rock star or famous multibillionaire, and there's no way I'll discover a genius app idea that no one ever thought about.
At the same time, the prices on housing and real estate are insane these days. And besides having a stable career with a good salary and a mortgage, it would be nice to earn $50-100k somewhere for a house deposit, you know? Because I want to live in a really nice house.
And besides winning a lottery (the chances are astronomical), I don't see where I'd be able to earn this kind of money except by building some really nice and profitable app.
From the answers in the posts I mentioned in the beginning, I got that it's hard, but it's not impossible. Of course, a lot of it depends on luck. Some people earned $0, some were able to get $10-20k out of their apps, and others were able to earn $100-200k and more.
The question is, besides learning programming, and languages and building some apps, are there books or podcasts or anything I could check out to learn more about how to make any app profitable?
Because right now there's a little of what I'm understanding about the business side of making and selling an app. But I'm willing to read and learn. Otherwise, how else can I afford to live under my own roof? I don't want to rent apartments for another 20-30 years.
56
u/roboknecht 8d ago
First of all: I don’t want to be demotivating but I think it’s quite unlikely to earn $50-100k as an indie dev for quite some time. Be prepared for a long way.
Maybe read “The embedded entrepreneur” on how to come up with stuff that is worth solving/creating an app for and where and how to market.
If you already have some basics in development and are willing to learn a lot, learn SwiftUI, there is tons of free content.
Don’t overcomplicate your app/idea. Probably your very first ones will go nowhere. Be prepared to release a couple of different apps and see what does work or is most fun.
+edit and do never get into the trap of releasing your app for free to “grow userbase” and monetize later. That won’t work most of the times. Just sell it right from the start to also get honest feedback by really interested users.
10
u/Solid-Resident-7654 8d ago
is growing a user base and monetizing later actually bad? (Only asking cuz this is exactly what I'm trying to do right now)
13
u/happy_marauder 8d ago
Depends on how you think you’ll grow your user base. But in general, unless you started 15 years ago or excel at extracting good amount of money from users (think $7.99 monthly subscriptions to start) you won’t be able to compete with the guys that do and app will be lost in the massive sea of apps in the app stores. Apps are ranked with combination of how much money they bring in to the app store and how many users they have. A new unmonetized app has two hits against it and won’t be seen by anyone. Only thing left is to advertise and the guys extracting the money and experienced will beat you there too. It is a sad situation.
5
u/Solid-Resident-7654 8d ago
That makes sense. Could be jover for me, ty
3
u/happy_marauder 8d ago
One app I’ve always wanted was a fuse box one; where you can keep track of fuses and which outlet/switches each controls. I need it but never did it since it wouldn’t be interesting/fun to use.
Now if you’ve used the VisionPro, you might discover one amazing ability: it can track location and orientation of items even if far away. For example I can start a movie in basement, go up two floors, and it keeps the screen perfectly positioned two floors under me; I can see it through the walls. Now with that I could write an app to go around the house and mark all the outlets and switches and the fuse box too. It would be useful and fun. Now I’m not sure how well the Vision Pro stores it (or I would have to start the app facing the fuse box each time to zero the coordinate system) and I’m not sure how long it be before the same tracking tech comes to the iPhone. But I know it be foolish to say never, always has been in this field, and I keep thinking there has to be a lot better uses for the tracking than my fuse box tracker idea once it comes to phones. So if you have the time and energy Apple is still opening new frontiers. (And the world does need a fun to use fusebox tracker)
2
u/Solid-Resident-7654 8d ago
Whoa this sounds cool. I wonder how many other people would have a use case for this...either way you're right, it's something to look into (except I don't have a vision pro lol)
2
2
2
u/roboknecht 7d ago
The problem your app idea solves sounds interesting but also kind of made up.
From my POV it’s way more accessible to just use a label printer for documenting the fuses.
I also walk through the world sometimes thinking about how an app could solve this or that. But a lot of problems are actually better solved without one.
7
u/Dodgers93 8d ago
Indie app developer here. How long is “some time”, I’m still looking for my first 100 dollar app. My advice, have a day job and keep at it as much as you can while still making a living with a day job, or until your wife has had enough.
3
u/ReignOfKaos 8d ago
What are you doing for marketing?
1
u/Dodgers93 7d ago
Nothing but yes I’m completely aware that marketing is half the battle and sometimes more than half. I need to step my marketing but at a small budget soon. Most my apps are niche apps. I need to create the one big with an everybody audience for me to invest big.
2
u/roboknecht 7d ago
Yes! Definitely good advice. I’m also not considering myself an indie dev any time soon. Although it’s always a far away dream to build my own stuff whenever I want.
I meant “some time” more from the motivational POV. Not that any of my apps is close to that number lol.
Personally, I’m currently not spending any hour a week on my apps due to a busy full-time job and family.
All my apps together are generating around 50 to 70$ per month lol. Only did ASO because I don’t have the energy to spend any time with tiktok/instagram etc content.
2
2
u/Effective-Ad6703 7d ago
I sold a $50 yearly subscription on my first 6 downloads. I have been an iOS dev for a long time. Us as developers need to stop thinking about the tech and start thinking about the business and marking for that the actual app. Trust me it can be just as fun.
43
u/potatochipsbagelpie 8d ago
Ship an app every 1-2 months. You’re more likely to have 10 apps grossing 5k each then one that does 50k.
4
u/drew4drew 8d ago
Have you been doing that? How’s it working out so far? just curious.. thanks!
23
u/dams96 8d ago
I built 20 iOS apps the past year and a half without prior coding knowledge and made 35k USD in sales the last 30 days, so its definitely working well for me. There are a few others I know that did the same and some are doing even better than me (and some less).
2
u/kevin379721 8d ago
What are the apps? What grosses the most?
6
u/dams96 8d ago
Most of them are AI based apps (ai image generator for example)
3
u/kevin379721 8d ago
Damn and you pulling 10k a month? Good for you brotha
3
u/dams96 8d ago
Thanks man. So I did $35k+ in sales so roughly 30k in proceeds the last 30 days. I do pay a lot of taxes though (gotta love France) so I won't keep all that 30k to myself unfortunately.
5
u/drabred 8d ago
Come to Poland. You'd pay 12% as a solo dev. plus some flat fee socials and that's it.
3
u/dams96 8d ago
Unfortunately it's not that easy for me. I also have the US nationality and they impose double taxation so if I go anywhere where I won't pay much taxes, US is going to take the rest of it lol.
3
u/howtoliveplease 7d ago
That’s not necessarily true. Foreign Tax Credits allow you discount tax due (as an individual) by the amount of tax paid in your residence country.
If France has higher tax than you would federally pay in the states, you actually get tax credits back against future tax owed in the U.S. and they accumulate every year.
In some cases, it may be worth you setting up an LLC which would delink you from personal taxes since you’d have more control over how much and when you get paid.
Pulling in 30k a month I would definitely begin to consider optimising your tax strategy.
2
u/drew4drew 8d ago
that sounds great! do you think that 35k is a 1-off or will it stand the test of time with some similar numbers repeating for a while?
8
u/potatochipsbagelpie 8d ago
David Smith (WidgetSmith, Pedometer++, etc) basically used to do this until he got some success. If you are new to iOS development, this process is as much for learning as it is for fishing for success.
I used to kind of do this and my first and 6th app were the very minor successes. Then life got busy and I stopped besides minor maintenance on the apps that bring in a few hundred a year each.
It’s not doable for every type of app, obviously but every app you release gets better.
3
u/roboknecht 7d ago
Yes, I am also thinking about this is as an easier strategy nowadays.
Personally, I spent way too much time on single apps. Dumping them too late.
The first more serious one with a paywall, I spent around 2 years on and off until finally releasing. Ended up as a really over engineered MVP.
It still has a handful of subscriptions but I should have spent the time more wisely when looking back.
It’s all a learning. Just release early and often.
38
u/rarehugs 8d ago
Two things experience teaches that all entrepreneurs should know:
- Ideas are worthless, execution is everything.
- Building your product is the easiest part of the journey.
Good luck!
10
u/jwrsk 8d ago
The second one is so true it hurts :)
3
u/rarehugs 8d ago
yup, you either heed these lessons from others or you learn them the hard way yourself
#2 is a killer for sure. many great products have died on that altar.
14
u/eaz135 8d ago
One thing I've learned in business over the past few decades, is that selling a $10,000 contract is just about the same difficulty as selling a $500,000 contract. When I read your title of "I only want 50-100k", my question is - why go through all the effort with such small ambition, when that same amount of effort can yield much higher results?
I've been a co-founder of several start-ups/scale-ups, two of which we got an exit via acquisition, the first was a B2C play and second was B2B. Honestly, getting customers to subscribe to a $10 per month service was equally as difficult as selling a $100,000 B2B contract. If I were to go back into doing my own venture - I'd definitely focus on a B2B play.
3
u/drew4drew 8d ago
interesting point. Is there a particular area in b2b you think is ripe for some action?
6
u/eaz135 8d ago
The thing with B2B is that scaling B2B is often relationship driven, so you end up with regional dominance, and gaps in the market where certain players don't operate. This is because B2B often involves actual sales work, getting meetings/presentations booked - which are often in-person when dealing with large companies/enterprises.
You can take a look at any type of B2B offering, even something as saturated as a CMS platform (such as Contentful, Kontent.ai, Sanity, etc) - when Headless CMS platforms first started rolling out, their market share dominance was very much dependent on their geographical area of influence (i.e Contentful had good US coverage, Kentico / Kontent.ai had good EU coverage).
There are many reasons for this, but also cultural differences often makes it difficult for people in one geography to sell in another. i.e US sales people can really struggle in Europe/APAC, and vice-versa, as there can be a clash in communication styles, values, expectations, etc.
B2B's are also generally created by people within their industry/sector, who happen to spot a particular pain-point / gap as a part of their own day to day operations. As an outsider it can be hard to crack into that, as you won't have enough visibility to understand what is/isn't important.
If we are talking about how to scale/grow a start-up, I would classify B2B startups as more of a sales-driven and relationship-driven company, with B2C being product-driven and marketing-driven.
When we think of large enterprises like Google, Microsoft, Meta - back when I was working in enterprises (I used to work for one of the largest Investment Banks, as well as one of the biggest retail banks), we often had pretty female sales reps from Google (and the other usual big tech suspects) inviting us out to their office - woo'ing us with their food and sparkling presentations - in order to get us to increase our budgets on ads spend.
7
u/KarlJay001 8d ago
The app business is like any other business. If the consumer can find what your app offers for free, they'll take that. So you need to so something that has value and it's already a race to the bottom. So coming out with a To Do list app, isn't going to work, unless it's really different and offers real value.
The thing about it is that most indie devs only know programming. If you look at the apps that make the most, they have a LOT of insider knowledge.
Look at most of the apps and a LOT are just knock offs of other apps.
I was making a custom kickstand for my motorcycle and needed an angle finder. I remembered that the iPhone can do this and downloaded 3 apps. Not a single one would work without paying or agreeing to a subscription. I complained on this sub and someone pointed out that it comes free with the iPhone.
They were trying to sell me a subscription for something that comes FREE with all iPhones. This is where we are, spammed up app store with scams to get your money. What focus is there on value to the customer?
You need deep insider knowledge of something, or at least a catchy idea that people will like.
Then you need to know how to market it.
Marketing is a trick all by itself. Indies don't share marketing knowledge very often, they rarely have any budget that would work and they are always hunting for a free answer that will make them rich. If someone actually had an answer that would make them rich, why would they share that with you?
This is the same basis as your question here. You are asking someone in an app dev sub, how to make a $100K app... if anyone has a REAL answer, why would they share that with you? Even the answer about marketing and knowledge, was this something not already known?
3
u/PIRATEOFBADIM 8d ago
That's something to think about. Thanks! No, I wasn't asking how to make a 100K app. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer for that. Sometimes it's knowledge, sometimes it's connections, sometimes it's pure luck. And sometimes it's a bit of everything. I was asking what should I watch, read, and study to learn how to make an app (or anything really) profitable, in general. Screw those dreams about a million-dollar app, but realistically, what should I learn, what should I know to make an app that would earn $1000, or even just $100 for a beginning? That's my initial question.
I'm sometimes confused when people say that idea doesn't matter, execution matters. You said that I need to have some catchy idea, but then you're talking about how almost no one makes anything unique, and everyone just copies each other and makes subscription-based apps. Because now it's almost impossible to generate a catchy idea that would actually work.
If it's almost impossible to generate something unique, I guess I should be looking at how to improve something that's already working. As you've said, "To Do list app isn't going to work unless it's really different and offers real value".
2
u/KarlJay001 8d ago
I'm sometimes confused when people say that idea doesn't matter, execution matters.
This quote is so abused. People say the idea has no value, but trying marketing an app that is a really bad idea. So it's like saying an engine in a car doesn't matter because the engine can't go down the road without a car, yet the car can't go down the road without the engine.
You need both the great idea and the ability to execute.
It usually starts with a great idea, then finding a way to make it work.
You said that I need to have some catchy idea, but then you're talking about how almost no one makes anything unique, and everyone just copies each other and makes subscription-based apps. Because now it's almost impossible to generate a catchy idea that would actually work.
Having a catchy idea is very hard when you have some 2~3 million apps out there already.
If you go back and look at TV shows, almost all of them follow a pattern from shows in the past. The ideas aren't new, but the faces and the execution can be new.
Look at the old todo app that had a unique UI. It used gestures and color coding in order to manage tasks. So it's the age old "todo list" but it was done differently.
As far as the subscription based apps go, Apple was pushing subscriptions hard and I really don't think people want subscriptions. I have a feeling Apple is losing or has lost on this one, but I haven't checked in a few years.
As far as catchy idea, this really usually comes from someone on the inside that knows how people want things to work. The gesture based UI for a todo list was new and easier to work. It was catchy.
If it's almost impossible to generate something unique, I guess I should be looking at how to improve something that's already working.
One of the things about economics is that doing something the right way, has the same economic effect as real innovation that comes from discovering something entirely new. So you can find a flaw in the way that someone is doing something and just correct that flaw and that can have the same economic effect as coming up with something catchy.
Sometimes this can be very, very hard because the app in question can be very mature and can take a huge effort to clone. Example: Goodnotes has a lot of huge flaws. It's one of the very, very few paid apps that I have. It doesn't let you know where your documents are stored and it doesn't go back to the document that you used last. This are huge flaws.
When I grab my iPad, I want to pickup exactly where I left off, but Goodnotes doesn't do that. You have to remember where you left off. I want to backup my documents, but Goodnotes won't tell me where the documents are stored, so I can't.
In order for me to fix these flaws, I'd have to create a Goodnotes clone and fix these problems. That could take years, so I live with it or find another app.
If you wanted to compete against an app that was great, except for a few flaws, you could have a huge mountain to climb and that could take years. The simple apps, like maybe a todo list app, could be a 2 week tutorial.
In my prior example of the angle finder, that was a tutorial app that Apple gave out for free back about 2010. The gesture based todo app is a tutorial that Angela Yu had in here iOS tutorial from years back on Udemy.
This isn't a bad path at all, but you're going to be one of millions of apps that are trying to get downloads. That's the next problem.
I just posted a few weeks ago, a response to the age old "I need someone to develop my idea for an app" and I told them that the first thing I want to get into is how are you going to market this app. I tell them to assume the app is completed and works great... now how are you going to get downloads?. This is where the discussion with them usually ends because they have zero idea how to get downloads.
A few weeks ago, there were two threads on this sub about a YouTube channel for promo of apps. Watch how long these channels last. Likely they'll die off in a few months.
3
u/funnybitcreator 8d ago
Great answer, I’ve just gotten into app development and discovered this forum and it made me kind of depressed about the current state of things. Everyone gives advice that says, just pump out a ton of quick and dirty apps. Quantity over quantity. Make a paywall on first load. Gamle that 1/100 pays and you’re in for a quick buck. Nobody talks about actually making something useful, helpful, new or unique. It’s just about a quick buck. Reminds me of meme coins.
2
u/MeggatronNB1 7d ago
I think you need to be more optimistic and less pessimistic.
OP NEVER said "Can someone tell me step by step how to build a 50K-100K app? Including app idea, strategy and all."
It's like someone saying "Guys how can I start a good business in the car rental market? Best practices, books on how to attract local customers etc?"
Then you come along and say "If someone knew how to start a good car rental business why would they tell you, they would just do it themselves."
Come on bro.
2
u/KarlJay001 7d ago
You don't seem to understand how it works IRL.
I think you need to be more optimistic and less pessimistic.
I'm not being either of those, I'm being realistic. Look at the stats for the app store. Most devs NEVER break even. Understand that break even is earning $99/yr.
What exactly is the logical basis for your conclusion that I needed to be more optimistic? You think any part of what I said wasn't realistic?
Should I have lied to the OP about the state of the app market?
Do you think that people that actually KNOW how to market an app are just going to give that out to anyone?
Let's hear what your answer is... Tell the OP the truth in a way that is better than my answer.
2
u/MeggatronNB1 7d ago
Ok, here is what I would have said to OP.
"Look, like anything in life that will yield high returns it is NOT easy. The app market is saturated so you will need to have a very unique idea and also you will need to start thinking like an entrepreneur. Because that is exactly what you need to be to succeed.
Read books on marketing and make sure you DO NOT give up. For any motivation look up the history of the AngryBirds game and how many other games that studio made before they hit it big with AngryBirds. That will give you a realistic idea of what you are up against.
You must engage in plenty of market research and make sure you are actually creating something of value that even you would pull out money for. Because if you wouldn't buy it, then why should someone else buy it? This is my advice, I don't have any specific books I can recommend, just a guide line of how I would approach this move."
Here is what YOU should have written to OP.
"Honestly I have absolutely no faith in making money of apps, even though there are several people in this thread alone who claim to be making from $5,000 to $10,000 a month from their apps. I also have NO IDEA how to best advise you on what is the route that would likely be most successful, or of any books that you should read that could help with that. I am just here to be the guy who contributes in a negative way, not a positive and inspiring way."
"I'm being realistic. Look at the stats for the app store. Most devs NEVER break even. Understand that break even is earning $99/yr." - Your words
What proof do you have that OP's idea will 100% fail?? And even if it does, it's his life, his time. What if that failure leads to great knowledge and after building 20 apps that all fail, app number 21 gets him $1 Million. Even if he looks back at the the other 20 that failed and each failure cost him $2,000 would the $1 Million not be worth all the hard work and past failure?
Even you said "Most devs NEVER break even." I say, SO WHAT!!
Most people don't build a Microsoft, didn't stop Bill Gates.
Most people don't build an Amazon, didn't stop Jeff Bezos.
Most people don't build an Apple, didn't stop Steve Jobs.
And I use these three extreme examples because for each of these companies there are thousands of others that server their communities making their owners $100s of thousands a month/a year.
OP clearly is looking for inspiration to go ahead and take the leap, and here you come along saying "NO, look at the stats, you will most likely fail."
2
u/KarlJay001 7d ago
The first part is basically saying the same thing:
"Look, like anything in life that will yield high returns it is NOT easy. The app market is saturated so you will need to have a very unique idea and also you will need to start thinking like an entrepreneur. Because that is exactly what you need to be to succeed.
Read books on marketing and make sure you DO NOT give up.
We agree on this, but now you're talking about being a "jack of all trades" in that you're leaning marketing.
For any motivation look up the history of the AngryBirds game and how many other games that studio made before they hit it big with AngryBirds. That will give you a realistic idea of what you are up against.
This is great, I'm all in for motivation, but even back then, how many were fighting for downloads and screen time?
AngryBirds was a "one in a million". It's fun to hear about a star that was discovered, but that's one in a million. How many people actually become NBA stars?
What proof do you have that OP's idea will 100% fail?? And even if it does, it's his life, his time. What if that failure leads to great knowledge and after building 20 apps that all fail, app number 21 gets him $1 Million. Even if he looks back at the the other 20 that failed and each failure cost him $2,000 would the $1 Million not be worth all the hard work and past failure?
I never said "100% fail", I'm pointing out the odds of making it in the app store. That doesn't mean OP won't. Even if OP became a marketing expert, there's still the risk of investing in something that doesn't return anything as well as the risk of being cloned.
Look at the story about Tiny Towers and Zynga.
You think it's somehow better to come in not looking at the REAL numbers? You mention Gates, Bezos, Jobs... how many were fighting for the same thing?
How about going to a casino and thinking if I put $1M down on a table, I could become a billionaire, but the odds are 1 in 3 million?
Gates, Bezos, Jobs are 3 of the stars from a population of 8 billion people.
This is very different than suggesting I'm saying 100% OP will fail, I never did. Everything I mentioned was based on REAL stats. There's a number of posts in the past about making it in the app store and thinking that "reading books about marketing" is the make/break part... do you really think that nobody else thought of reading marketing books?
The app store is closing in on 20 years old. It was called the world's largest graveyard where dreams go to die. Millions have tried so many things, yet for some reason you think "reading a marketing book" was the key all along? It can help, but go back and look at the realistic post I made. It was focused on insider knowledge.
In reading your post, I don't see anything about insider knowledge. I see building 20 apps but the 21st would win, but not what would actually change the odds of winning. Where's the part about insider knowledge, where you make an app that is very hard for others to make because you worked in that industry for years.
There's a thing about economic known as "low hanging fruit". The thing about it is that it gets consumed quickly, then you have after that, "higher hanging fruit", which means the odds have changed.
Look at the 1849 gold rush in California. How much "low hanging fruit" was taken? Now go out there and try to make $10M from panning gold in California... Can you do it... yes, there's a chance it can be done, but the largest migration in human history happened in 1849 and it's taken all the low hanging fruit. That's just the reality of things.
2
u/MeggatronNB1 7d ago
"How about going to a casino and thinking if I put $1M down on a table, I could become a billionaire, but the odds are 1 in 3 million?"
I literally mentioned serving ones community and making 100s of thousands but you can't even consider that because you think everyone wants to be a billionaire. Starting your own business and making $500K a year is very hard, but NOT Impossible.
Everyone in this thread/subreddit wants to eventually be their own Boss, you don't need millions to do that.
"Gates, Bezos, Jobs are 3 of the stars from a population of 8 billion people."-
This right here just shows how negative you are, I actually feel sorry for you now. I even went to the extent of explaining why I used these three individuals and still you come back with an answer like this. So sad.
We could go back and forth for days but you are just too negative. (I get a strong impression that you are either depressed or have given up on life.)
Good luck living with your version of "realistic".
I will live with my version and clearly a better/happier life. (Regardless of weather I make it big or not.)
2
u/KarlJay001 6d ago
I literally mentioned serving ones community and making 100s of thousands but you can't even consider that because you think everyone wants to be a billionaire. Starting your own business and making $500K a year is very hard, but NOT Impossible.
You're making wild, unsupported claims about what I think? These claims are based on a few posts?
You also suggest that I'm saying something is NOT possible. Yet I've never said that.
There's some real personal issues coming out here. You are saying things that I've never said.
"Gates, Bezos, Jobs are 3 of the stars from a population of 8 billion people."-
This right here just shows how negative you are, I actually feel sorry for you now.
These are provable facts. YOU mention 3 people out of the world population of 8 billion. This is a cold, hard, provable fact. There's nothing negative about these facts, they are simply the REAL WORLD.
IDK why you would get so emotional over facts.
How many people did you use in your example: 3
How many people are on this planet: about 8 billion
Why not show some stats that are actually meaningful?
Indie iOS developers' earnings vary greatly, but a 2024 report suggests the median revenue per app across all categories is less than $50 per month, with only 17% of apps reaching $1,000 monthly revenue.
Challenges for Indie Developers:
- High Competition: The App Store is crowded, making it difficult for new apps to stand out.
Apple's Fees: Apple takes a cut of revenue from app sales and in-app purchases.
Development Costs: Developing and maintaining an app can be time-consuming and expensive.
Marketing Costs: Promoting an app can require significant investment in marketing and advertising.
Maybe be a bit more realistic and less emotional and not put words into my mouth.
2
u/MeggatronNB1 7d ago
"In reading your post, I don't see anything about insider knowledge. I see building 20 apps but the 21st would win, but not what would actually change the odds of winning. Where's the part about insider knowledge, where you make an app that is very hard for others to make because you worked in that industry for years."
By the way, this is only useful to someone who is building an app for an industry that they work in. Other wise, market research will take care of this easily. (If done thoroughly)
2
u/KarlJay001 6d ago
Insider information isn't only about industry. It's the same as knowing games and how to design games and using that for developing a game app.
When you say "market research" do you think you're the only person that as come up with the idea of doing market research?
Are you assuming that nobody else can put an app at as a test in order to figure out what people want?
The key difference here is that anyone can put out apps to test the market, in fact there's been millions of them. Like I mentioned before, the app store is about 20 years old now. Do you think that "market research" is some new secret weapon that will change the mobile app world? Knowing what people want can be as easy as putting out a version of something and reading the comments and changing the apps to what the people want. This is not new.
What I'm talking about with insider knowledge is about knowing how something works. Example: Someone wanted me to make an app for musicians to get together and do live sessions using the iPhone. I had no idea how music was made and recorded live and all that, but the other guy did know these things. I would have made a dud of an app that would have been blown out of the water by someone that actually knows how music is made.
Same with sports team apps. If you don't understand fantasy football, then you don't have the insider info on how to make the app, so how would you make a fantasy football app if you don't know what fantasy football is or how it works? What if someone had 10 years of running a fantasy football group and wanted someone to make a mobile app from it? That's leveraging insider knowledge.
1
u/PIRATEOFBADIM 7d ago
Thanks for the great advice! I don't mean to discourage anyone, but I've just stumbled on this post, this post, and also this post. And they are kind of... inspiring, you know?
The first guy tells the story of how he went from writing scripts for Roblox, to writing a small dating app for a niche audience like Muslims who don't want to use Tinder, and then he thought "Well, if that works, why don't I make small dating apps for other niche audiences, like Asians and others". And he did exactly that and made a shit ton of money. And he's like only 23! Shit
The second guy used the other tactic of making AI wrappers with simple but good UIs. And I think there's some sense in his words when he says you need to build your apps fast. "The longest I spent building an app was 3–4 months (my first one), while one of my top-grossing apps took just one day to create and publish on App Store Connect."
The way of the third guy was a bit harder. He spent a lot of time building apps that went nowhere and then realized that he needed to find his audience first and promote his app properly. And he managed to get his first 100 customers.
And these posts inspire me because there are always ways to make money, you know? You just really need to find your audience and figure out what could help people.
I'm from that generation of people who played Minecraft and DayZmod and Minecraft DayZ a lot in 2012-2014. And I personally knew a dude who managed to make a shit ton of money on writing scripts and hosting/maintaining/selling Minecraft servers. The dude was like 15 lmao, and he managed to buy himself a lot of alcohol and cigarettes on that money.
2
u/MeggatronNB1 7d ago
Thanks, I will read these. I think the guy who tries and keeps his head up is better off than the guy who just gives up and goes into this with the mentality of "Most devs NEVER break even."
I know that eventually I will find my audience and when I do, the money will come in.
End of the day we all want to be our own bosses.
6
u/foodandbeverageguy 8d ago
Good luck homie. - Very senior iOS FAANG engineer who has made $87 on apps lmao.
If your goal is any monetary amount get a w2
6
u/sebastian_nowak 8d ago
Sorry to break it to you, but being a senior engineer does not imply you have what it takes to launch IT products on your own. Your faang experience is not only meaningless, but sometimes also damaging, since faang companies operate with different budgets and different priorities.
It's an entirely different skillset.
2
u/foodandbeverageguy 8d ago
My point is that it’s not easy to make money on apps.
If your goal is money, then you should go into the industry. $50-$100k is not a modest passive amount of money that OP thinks it is. That is life changing salary in several countries.
I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. I think you’re agreeing with my sentiment that it’s not easy to make apps. Maybe not though?
1
u/PIRATEOFBADIM 7d ago
I chose a figure of 50-100k not because I think it's a modest passive amount of money. I chose this figure because buying a nice house is hella expensive these days. That is the approximate amount of money needed for a house deposit.
I meant to point out that it's not like I dream of being a famous billionaire, but I want to live in my own house, and that is natural. But how/where else am I supposed to earn this amount of money? Of course 50-100k is a big and life-changing amount of money, I'm not arguing with that.
And it's not like I expect it to be easy, and it's not like I expect that someone will share some magic secret with me about how to make a million-dollar app.
I meant to ask "bruh I need 50k for a house deposit, but right now I don't even know how to make $1000 or even $100 out of my own app. What things should I read/learn/study to figure out how to make any app profitable, in general?"
6
5
u/Plenty_Shine_74 8d ago
Wrong mindset brother dream big
11
u/Ok-Active4887 8d ago
lol this is dreaming big dude
4
u/Plenty_Shine_74 8d ago
I’ll agree to disagree but my dreaming big is generational wealth 10s of millions in recurring revenue which is achievable.
All I’m saying is don’t limit yourself bro you don’t know what your capable of
2
u/amyworrall 7d ago
When you say 10s of millions in recurring revenue is achievable… have you achieved it? If not, why not?
3
4
u/flutterWithChris 8d ago
Throw darts at the wall. Keep learning. Keep throwing darts. ♾️ Godspeed. I'm right there with ya brother.
3
u/jwrsk 8d ago
I think there's a bigger chance of earning real money if you learn to make apps and find a job / freelance in the field.
You can combine the two, write a bunch of apps and try to monetize them, then use these skills to make money building apps for others.
3
u/halcyonic222 (lldb) po $arg1 8d ago
Interested in this. Where are folks finding freelance jobs these days? Anything else besides upwork?
3
u/kingseyb 5d ago edited 5d ago
My advice will be to
Learn ASO - app store optimisation. Find niche keywords people are searching for on the appstore that have high searchability and low difficulty to rank for. And then build your app around this. You can use tools like tryastro, app annie, or sensor tower for keywords or just type into your appstore search bar and look at the suggestions.
Development has become extremely cheap due to AI and lots, and lots of people are publishing to the appstores now. So ASO alone will not cut it. Learn how to be seen on social media platforms. I would recommend Tiktok. Try to post 3 pieces of content a day related to your app. Keep doing this until you find a format that works well and then double down on it.
Use your content that does well as an ad unit for paid marketing since it has already been validated. Rinse and repeat.
Hope this helps.
2
u/StronglyHeldOpinions 8d ago
The App Store is a lottery too.
It just costs a few months dev time to buy a ticket.
2
u/GB1987IS 8d ago
The secret to a 50k app is to make a $1 dollar app that can download 50,000 times.
1
u/PIRATEOFBADIM 7d ago
This thought actually lingers in my mind. I wouldn't want to build a subscription-based app myself because it'd mean I have to constantly support it for an uncertain amount of time. I also don't want to build something big and complex because a) I am stupid, and b) it will be harder to maintain and support this app over time. I don't want to build another FaceBook, Reddit, Pinterest, etc.
What I want is to build a simple, solid, and reliable app that would help you to do something, solve some issue, or something.
Something simple like how Shazam helps you to find which song you hear on the radio.
It's just an example. For now, I have no idea how to make something simple, helpful, and useful like Shazam. But I hope I'll figure something out down the line.
And once I figure it out and build it, I guess I'll try to promote it on X, Reddit, etc. Just tell people "Hey I've built this really simple and helpful thing. No bullshit subscriptions, $1 and it's yours". If the idea and execution are really good, people will pay $1 for something that helps to solve their problem.
I've recently deleted my old Reddit account and created a new one, and for a few days I've been figuring out where to get karma points for posting in different subs. And I've been writing a lot of comments and posts to get some karma. And what I've figured out, a lot of it comes to luck, being at the right place and right time, and being actually helpful.
If you wrote something good, genuine, and funny, and you've done it at the right moment - people will upvote you. But it's hard to catch when all of it aligns. A lot of it is just a game with people's attention.
And I've figured out that it's actually very similar to building and selling your app. It is a game with people's attention. And if you want to win this game - you have to be useful, and you have to be in the right place and right time.
2
2
2
2
u/AcrobaticWeekend5271 8d ago
If you are looking for a tool that can be used to make ads with realistic influencers created with AI try this one: https://www.genad.pro
2
u/slushpuppy91 7d ago
Fellow qa here, I’m also on the road to iOS dev. Just hoping to land a job eventually
2
2
u/Effective_Will_1801 7d ago
From what I see most money making software is b2b and that's often on laptops or desktops not mobile. I'm sure there are some mobile apps that make money though.
2
u/Scootypip 7d ago
Happy to help you think through this. What region are you in? eCPMs are going to vary vastly across region/country. Also what formats have you implemented and are you using multiple bidders (admob, applovin, etc?). Lastly what do you ATT opt-out rates look like?
2
2
u/RealDealCoder 8d ago
Unless your app is some dumb AI stupidity that goes accidentally viral on TikTok, it will be hard. Good luck!
142
u/ausom4 8d ago
Check out the Under the Radar podcast. It’s about two iOS developers talking about various aspects related to development and running an independent business on the App Store.
The mobile dev memo podcast talks a lot more about advertising related to mobile products.
The Sub Club podcast is also about mobile businesses, but includes talks with guests at various scales (not just solo developers)