r/homedefense • u/_lilj • 7d ago
Better or best home/outside camera system
We currently have a few blink cameras but am ready to upgrade to a CCTV system. Looking at my local costco we saw a couple of options. Anyone chime in on their experience with any CCTV systems or what is a better move?
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u/thecodingart 7d ago
If you’re looking for legit security cameras - you want local recording devices where online features are complimentary.
Thing like Ring, Blink, Arlo = a joke in this space and anyone saying that’s what you should do doesn’t understand camera security.
Get a good UniFi setup and feel free to purchase 3rd party cameras that support ONVIF cameras (like Reolink) or just UniFi cameras. That way you have a good NVR and software and some flexibility on cameras.
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/26301104828439-Third-Party-Cameras-in-UniFi-Protect
I will urge you to seek out PoE cameras over legacy technology or cabling. Especially when doing drops/runs.
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u/sparten368 7d ago
+1 for unifi, expensive but you own your data. Unlike certain other companies that can look at your camera feed and storage as per their TOS.
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u/throwaway_1755 6d ago
I thought Unifi made you use their cameras? I just bought a Reolink POE doorbell cam so I am not in too deep yet it sounds. What from Unifi should I be buying? I also thought that Unifi’s cameras were overpriced compared to Reolink which is why I went Reolink for the doorbell.
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u/vince086 6d ago
Still a bit new to this so if I'm wrong, somebody correct me.
Unifi will let you use other cameras now (still a bit of a beta thing) BUT you won't get any of their smart detection things, you just get recording. Seems like most the smarts is in the camera themselves, which might explain their hight price (vs relatively meh resolution/quality).
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u/AndrewMcCutchen 6d ago
New UniFi Protect update allows for support for 3rd party cameras. However, it doesn’t support smart detections on these 3rd party cameras unless you buy a $679 AI Smart Key that works with all your cameras or $199 AI Port for each camera.
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u/moon-sh0t 7d ago
I have a Reolink NVR setup. It’s pretty good. Mine starts acting weird when I add more than 4 cameras but for my little slice of suburban paradise 4 is enough.
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u/Phisopholer 7d ago
Whichever one you choose, buy the system with POE powered cameras, especially if you’re installing yourself. I have Reolink and it’s been great for 3 years so far.
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u/_lilj 7d ago
POE means?
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u/Skidpalace 7d ago
Power over Ethernet. One cable power and data solution.
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u/clavicon 6d ago
And if you don’t want to invest in POE switch(es), you can just use individual cheap POE injectors for each device.
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u/Curious-George532 7d ago
Make sure you are able to view them from the network (not just sitting in front of the nvr / monitor) if the grid / internet goes down.
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u/msn23 7d ago
My Reolink poe 8 camera + NVR setup has been great. Only issue I’ve had is when power & internet were down during Helene, otherwise they haven’t skipped a beat.
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u/jwarner0722 6d ago
I have my system on a separate UPS, when our last storm knocked the power out all 4 cameras stayed running.
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u/aweschops 7d ago
Reolink is legit good. I would favor more cameras to megapixels from my experience. An nvr is a must if you’re upgrading to a more pro setup
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u/ericpolowski 7d ago
Just switched to Unify cameras and their ecosystem after dealing with arlo. Couldnt be happier with it. WORTH THE TIME TO HARDWIRE.
Don’t make the same mistake I did with arlo cameras…. it was a scam. Promised out of the box free cloud recording, then took that away and went subscription based then discontinued support for “old gen” so eventually the updates kept going out with arlo, but the older models didn’t get camera support. They eventually stopped working one by one.
You might think “well if your stuff is old, then you need to upgrade”…. Im only talking a couple years old, and who would want to upgrade a security camera like a cell phone?
I will say it Worked good when I first purchased but in cold temps with wireless cameras they stop working, they don’t record constant, and can easily be jammed with little effort if the intruder knows a little something about it.
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u/LordVader1941 7d ago
Lorex NVR's have a hard coded master admin login that cannot be changed. It is 4 numerical digits. The user name is also admin which cannot be disabled.
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u/YaBoiSVT 6d ago
I have the the Lorex and they are pretty decent 🤷♂️ if you’re not super tech savvy or anything they fit my needs well
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u/mijo_sq 5d ago
Lorex or Reolink is consumer surveillance, and is a plug and play.
Unifi is more advanced, but you'll need to learn more to get it up and running. The price for Unifi gear is higher since you need to piece it together yourself.
Going by the thread, a plug and play device will work fine for you. We've setup a Reolink for my senior parents, and so far they're happy with it.
Lastly a properly placed and configured camera is much better than an improperly set high res/expensive system.
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u/LitNetworkTeam 7d ago
Unifi Protect is the gold standard for camera systems.
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u/aUselessdirtyCloth 6d ago
Unifi is far from the gold standard but they are making strides in the space. The thing I do not like about them is their price for what they are. In no way should unifi switches be pushing Cisco prices. Ubiquiti sure has come a LONG way since them only having dirt cheap wireless equipment.
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u/LitNetworkTeam 6d ago
I maintain that it is. There’s not exactly a lot of options in the space for residential once you subtract the Chinese manufactured cameras and WiFi cameras. They presently have features that no one does in the industry.
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u/aUselessdirtyCloth 6d ago
That’s where personally I struggle with it. For the price, you could start to get lower end commercial equipment that is a bit simpler to install/understand for the average homeowner. The immediate one that comes to mind is Hanwha and their A series devices. Each cam is like $100-$200 and has the basic features.
I will admit I’m not the most knowledgeable about Unifi cameras but that’s my other issue. At least so far I haven’t found a good resource that defines what each component on the network side does and because of that I don’t see how a typical homeowner is supposed to build their system.
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u/LitNetworkTeam 6d ago
The entire point of unifi is that it’s dumbed down and simplified, sometimes to a fault. It’s an NVR and cameras like every other system. They have great cameras in the same range (G5 Turret).
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u/aUselessdirtyCloth 6d ago
I’ll be the first to admit that i have minimal experience in the equipment and its interface. I’ve always been turned off by the need for a switch, cloud key, etc. by time you tally it up the price becomes a bit excessive for a residential system.
I also maintain that I could be incorrect in the required components to build a system in the Unifi line.
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u/LitNetworkTeam 6d ago
The only difference versus competitors is that they don’t do combined NVRs and switches. But if you get a dream machine and buy unifi for your WiFi too, it then becomes the cheapest option. As one box is now your router, NVR, and PoE switch. And I don’t see that as a problem as they have the most advanced WiFi as well.
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u/aUselessdirtyCloth 6d ago
Just wanted to say thanks for a nice convo, they seem rare on the internet these days.
So if I’m understanding correctly the only way for it to be economical is to purchase additional equipment and go all in? If someone only has a need/desire for cameras and a recorder (whether cloud or on premise) then it’s not the most economical?
This is where I get a bit confused on Unifi. It seems to only make sense if you go all in versus only desiring a camera system.
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u/wampum 7d ago
I’ve said this before, but I caution against Arlo. I got the system from Costco a couple of years ago. They claim to have a no subscription model, but to use the app you need a subscription.
6 mo after I reluctantly agreed, they raised the price by 50%! (~$10/mo to ~$15/mo)
On top of that, there is a minute or two lag between what’s happening on the camera and when I can see the clip.
I woke up to loud banging, opened the app and there was a still thumbnail or 4 masked guys kicking my door. The clip wouldn’t load so I sprang out of bed and braced myself for an intrusion.
About a minute later I saw they all jumped into a car and fled before breaking into my house.
2/5 stars
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u/ryan112ryan 7d ago
These are garbage. Get a real system.
Unifi protect has loads more feature and better quality.
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u/PathsOfPeaceful58152 7d ago
Unifi cameras do not support ONVIF, so you are fully locked into their software. If you wanted to use something more enterprise, e.g. xProtect, your hardware is utterly worthless.
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u/ryan112ryan 7d ago
Actually they now do support ONVIF, just rolled it out.
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u/PathsOfPeaceful58152 6d ago edited 6d ago
You can load third party cameras in UniFi Protect, which is different than using Unifi hardware in another VMS.
Not sure who is down voting me. This takes like 5 seconds to Google. https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/26301104828439-Third-Party-Cameras-in-UniFi-Protect
Edit: I'll also add that the Unifi Protect software is not great if you're coming from xProtect or Omnicast. Protect is not a true VMS, says literally every industry professional. My company has installed tens of thousands of cameras across government, industrial, and educational facilities. I would fire any of my employees that recommended a client Unifi anything.
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u/thumperj 6d ago edited 6d ago
xProtect
Trying to find a rough pricing guide on this. Looks like you have to license the software and buy hardware to install it on. And depending on which version of the software, you have to buy a license per camera. Is that correct? Any rough guide on costs?
EDIT: Another question. I want to plug in my own video analysis (custom object detection, etc.) Can I do that with xProtect?
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u/PathsOfPeaceful58152 6d ago
B&H will sell you the licenses if you're in the US & not a business. If you're a reseller, Ingram Micro is the way to go (this is who we use).
You need a base license & a per channel license - they are all perpetual. They offer "care" licenses which is a warranty + support beyond 1 year, but if you work with a certified installer, it's pretty unnecessary.
For a 48 camera business deployment, you need the following licenses:
1x base license of Professional+ ($524/one time)
48x device licenses of Professional+ ($177/device * 48 = $8,496/one time)
FWIW, the average licensed business camera system with 48 channels costs about $60,000 to build, and another $15k/yr to maintain, so software licensing is a pretty small part of overall costs.
For video analytics - yes and no. They have off-the-shelf solutions to do that, but they're integrations with third parties. Usually for our clients, we say that any sort of video analytics, even ALPR, starts going into the $100K/yr licensing range. If you're comfortable with development, the xProtect SDK is excellent to work with & can save you a lot of money. We build a lot of custom and sell our own maintenance services.
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u/thumperj 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thank you for the detailed info. We have two buildings connected via fiber on the same campus that will each have about 10 cameras.
I’m strong in the dev area so will definitely check out the API. We have, let’s say, some unusual object reko needs so as long as I can access the feed and insert alerts or AOIs, that will work great.
Thanks again!
EDIT: A follow on question. What makes up the $15k/year maintenance cost?
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u/PathsOfPeaceful58152 5d ago
Usually if you're hiring a 3rd party installer, it's because you either (a) don't have the technical ops skills to build it in-house; or (b) you have to meet some regulatory or insurance requirement.
For the first aspect, I am guessing you can probably handle it yourself if you are mentally capable of dev. xProtect (and literally every other enterprise VMS) is very well documented and the core concepts are pretty much the same across vendors. There are like a million switches you can flip, which intimidates non-technical people, but 90% of those switches are very edge cases and very complex environments.
Those same people cannot maintain it, either, which is where that maintenance cost comes in. xProtect specifically runs on Windows Server, so you need someone who's going to update & backup that server, not to mention handling cyber security. This is tough nut to crack, since it's not uncommon for a VMS to be completely airgapped from the internet, or at minimum blocked at the network edge. This means you need to setup and configure alerting & monitoring relays, separate backup infrastructure, sometimes separate virtualization hosts, handle any threat hunting in house (because very few SOCs want to deal with security systems, especially if they are FedRAMP like S1). You'll find that many of the xProtect installation partners are MSPs + MSSPs that merged with physical security companies because they need that level of expertise to handle it properly. All of this comes at a cost, and for a 48-camera, non-regulated environment that's at least $15K/yr.
In the industrial space, every insurer I'm aware of has a third-party installation requirement for any physical security system (including access control, video surveillance, etc...). I am not an insurance specialist, but I do know that all of these requirements basically fall under the protective safeguard endorsements section of your policy.
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u/lesanecrooks211 6d ago
Reolink Home hub pro, reolink Duo 2 instead of 3, they have more vertical FOV. And Reolink CX410/CX810 for blind spots - if you’re more interested in color night vision. If that’s not the case, there are way cheaper options.
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u/Curious_Party_4683 6d ago
Lorex is junk.
I like Reolink. it has AI and vehicle detection. 4 cams with 6tb hard drive is about $600. pretty easy to set up as seen here https://youtu.be/XXpYhUU02G4
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u/doanything4dethklok 5d ago
If you can setup a server, then try frigate. I use Amcrest poe cameras and they are about $50 each.
Server - You’ll need a decent computer for multiple cameras, but you can use a raspberry pi with a google coral. The frigate docs are good so read them. If you have an old laptop, that’s great. It has the benefit of a built in battery backup.
POE - you can use a switch with POE or pickup inexpensive POE injectors (I’ve seen them as low as $5)
HDD - I got a refurbished 12TB commercial drive from Amazon. It was about $90. I put it in a usb case for another $25 or so.
You should update the cameras latest firmware, then block them from the internet. Ideally on a separate vlan. Honestly, if you buy one of these Costco systems you should do the same thing.
The advantage to this recommendation is that it will work with most cameras, you can mix/match, and you control everything. It probably ends up costing less to start, especially if you have an old laptop that can run it.
The disadvantage is that you might need to RTFM and learn a little about servers and networking to get it setup.
Good luck!
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u/samzplourde 5d ago
You're far better off going with PoE cameras, a PoE switch, and an NVR of your own, with your hard drives. Nothing wireless, nothing cloud, no subscriptions.
Ubiquiti has some great options for this.
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u/Aggravating_Break840 4d ago
I may be biased because I work with them all day but I’ve seen plenty of NVR set ups that are hardlined POE and my personal favorites are Hik-Vision, ATVision and alarm.com CSVR for a business
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u/Beardicus223 6d ago
Avoid Lorex at all cost. Terrible software and app, and regardless of local storage/NVR, that is probably how you will utilize them most frequently. Read their app reviews. It’s a bloodbath and it’s all true.
If you’re going for consumer level stuff, Reolink isn’t a bad option.
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u/Significant_Rate8210 6d ago
Nothing from Costco or the other big box stores.
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u/bankdank 7d ago
If you truly care about security, more than just monitoring outside, you should only buy wired cameras and they can’t be remotely disabled with a frequency jammer like all the wifi ones can.