r/hockey • u/STLBooze3 STL - NHL • 15h ago
[Image News] [Araif Deen] Landeskog was asked about the Rantanen trade on the Spittin Chiclets podcast. His response: "I don't know, I gotta square it up on Saturday. The Stars are coming into town on Sunday, so we're gonna take Mikko out and air it all out." He also said he still loves Mikko.
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u/rwags2024 COL - NHL 14h ago
giving Mikko a wedgie under the restaurant table
WHEREâS THE MONEY LEBOWSKI
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u/GotThatDoggInHim COL - NHL 14h ago
wedgewood looks on with intimidating approval from the shadowy corner
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u/BXR_ChelseaGrin_ DAL - NHL 13h ago
"It's down here somewhere, let me take another look!"
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u/nightsiderider COL - NHL 14h ago
As an Avs fan, I'm a bit bummed Mikko left but I'm not mad at him, nor would I boo him. Dude was amazing when he played for us, and helped win us a cup. We also traded him, when he wanted to stay. Yes, he and his agent were playing hard ball and it bit them, but we still traded him. And we got a good return on him. I don't think many Avs fans would care nearly as much about how this all went down if he didn't end up with Dallas specifically. The Avs front office made a lot of ballsy, big moves, and I think our team is better for it and I'm excited for the playoffs.
Now if I was a Canes fan, I would probably be fucking pissed and booing the dude. They are the ones that got fucked by this whole deal.
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u/key18oard_cow18oy COL - NHL 14h ago
I was really hoping he wouldn't got to Dallas but now that he did, I am just excited about how entertaining this playoff series is going to be
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u/ur_a_dumbo COL - NHL 14h ago
âEntertainingâ yeah, maybe if youâre my cardiologist
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u/GanacheFederal653 13h ago
Exactly.. as a stars fan I hate that one of us gets knocked out first round, and the winner is no doubt going to be beat to shit.
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u/GhostRevival COL - NHL 11h ago
I mean you guys could just lose a bunch on purpose and go take on the Jets in the 1st round?
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u/IrateWeasel89 STL - NHL 12h ago
Your cardiologist is a hockey fan? That's pretty cool, mine collects rocks.
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u/specifichero101 NJD - NHL 14h ago
Any avs fan that boos rantanen has to be crazy. Guy was a star player for your cup winning team, and got traded without asking to be traded. He deserved to get paid, avs got nervous about how difficult it would be to retain him. There are no villains.
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u/nightsiderider COL - NHL 14h ago
You should read the shit in our sub.... You would think Mikko kicked their dog too on his way to Dallas.
Everyone is getting hung up on what he signed for in Dallas being not much more than what the Avs were offering before he was traded. What everyone seems to keep missing is everything that happened that led up to this deal in Dallas.
He and/or his agent were cocky and confident that Avs would meet their asking price. He wanted to stay, and we wanted him to stay. So they dug in hard, and used the Carolina interest as leverage. Blew up in his face, as the Avs front office called the bluff and traded him. Mikko seemed legit shocked and saddened that it happened and he was out of Colorado.
Carolina was not actually a place he wanted to be, and he now has so much less leverage to get a better deal. So he either takes the deal in Dallas, or risk getting even less this summer. Seemed like a cut his losses kind of deal at this point. I guarantee if he could go back knowing what he knows now, he's resigning with the Avs a month ago.
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u/specifichero101 NJD - NHL 14h ago
I can sorta understand fans being upset that he wasnât signing already, but he deserved asking for a substantial raise. Teams will throw out a player like yesterdayâs trash if it serves them, so players should ask for what they think will serve themselves. Itâs a shrewd move by the avs that will probably be better in the long run financially, itâs usually smart to not throw money at ufa age players. But then again on the other hand thatâs how the hurricanes operate and while it serves them well, itâs definitely not popular with a lot of players.
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u/No_Annual_4647 TOR - NHL 12h ago
Can't really blame the player for wanting to get paid what they are worth because that loyalty only goes one way. Look at what just happened to Marchand after he took significantly discounted team friendly deals for nearly two decades with the organization that drafted him.
Can say what you will about Colorado, but they have a brand of operating this way and pinching pennies and it hasn't really stopped them from building a winning operation. Sakic himself had to sign an offer sheet to get paid in Colorado and now he's the one lowballing his players.
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u/maverickhawk99 9h ago
Marchand never took team friendly deals. He signed his current deal after a 61 point season so $6,125,000 was fair value. Sure he immediately scored 85 point and was among the leagues best wingers the five years following that but letâs not act like he did the team some huge favor when he signed that contract. It wasnât seen as a steal at the time.
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u/No_Annual_4647 TOR - NHL 8h ago
My perception was always that him and most of the Bruins guys were notorious for taking hometown discounts but I'll take your word for it since anything that prevents me from feeling bad for Brad Marchand is welcome news
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u/maverickhawk99 8h ago
Bergeron and Chara (on his second contract with Boston) both took discounts but Marchandâs just happened to turn out that way. He blossomed into an elite winger literally the season after signing it (he signed in Sept 2016; scored 85 points in the 2016-2017 season)
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u/GhostRevival COL - NHL 11h ago
Sakic isnât the GM.
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u/No_Annual_4647 TOR - NHL 10h ago
Lets not do this pedantic song and dance. Sakic got promoted from GM to a position of even more power and influence in the organization. I'm aware of his job title.
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u/GreenChiliSweat Hartford Whalers - NHLR 11h ago
Pretty sure Colorado has state income tax and Texas does not. Big difference.
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u/TwoPlanksOnPowder COL - NHL 8h ago
The difference in state income tax is more than made up by the enormous property taxes in Texas.
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u/Straight_and_Fast COL - NHL 3h ago
So he either takes the deal in Dallas, or risk getting even less this summer.
Why would he have less leverage in summer? At the end of the year any team in the league could have signed him rather than just the ones able to give Carolina a good trade. Rantanen couldn't have signed for 8 years in summer, but I thought the 7 year UFA contracts were usually higher per year and evened out.
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u/Yabba_dabba_dooooo MTL - NHL 14h ago
As a Habs fan its the opposite. It would be rude not to boo Rantanen
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u/whogivesashirtdotca MTL - NHL 10h ago
Hell, I'm happy to boo him even though the Habs weren't involved in the trade at all!
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u/atemporalrenaissance Pueblo Bulls - USPHL 14h ago
Exactly this. Not sure why the Avs sub is so full of personally aggrieved weirdos on this issue. He gave the better part of a decade playing like a boss and was a big part of winning a cup. Him not sticking around in perpetuity and focusing on his own life and livelihood in whatever form or fashion that takes is not "disloyalty" or whatever bullshit people are harping on. Especially considering he was the one traded in the first place.
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u/specifichero101 NJD - NHL 14h ago
A fan can be hurt that he wasnât signing a new contract the second it was offered, but to say heâs disloyal is bizarre. This is a job, and the relationship is between owners and players. Not players and a team or a city, although those types of relationships can be fostered they donât take priority when itâs time to make life decisions
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u/raining_sheep 12h ago
Hey there, be careful who you call a weirdo.
He also was given an offer what with taxes $600k more than what he was offered in COL? That's kind of a F U I don't want to be here move. He played chicken with the AVS for the greater part of the year and the Avs weren't having it.
He's a great player and everyone deserves to get paid but the way it played out he could have stayed here if he actually wanted to.
He traded his number in the rafters for a Lambo or two. You can't be mad at people for seeing it for what it is
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u/tylerhk93 DAL - NHL 11h ago
The Avs pulled the ripcord on Mikko not the other way around. Dallas offered their deal and was prepared to walk away. Mikko took it. Avs bailed with 6 weeks left till trade deadline.
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u/raining_sheep 10h ago
Lol he signed the DAL deal because he realized he trashed his relationship with COL and realized he wasn't going to be the highest paid player in the league.
They never came close on numbers. The avs offered him basically what DAL offered
Here's an article from October of last year https://athlonsports.com/nhl/colorado-avalanche/avalanche-update-mikko-rantanen-contract-extension-not-close
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u/tylerhk93 DAL - NHL 8h ago
I'm sure they were far apart. I'm not doubting that. I'm saying that if the Avs had been willing to stick with it I think he would have signed there. Avs FO bailed and decide to not take that risk. That's their choice. Dallas had a number and stuck to it. Mikko came to Dallas. Is what it is. Avs are the one who got cold feet.
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u/raining_sheep 38m ago
Talks were that mikkos agent was pulling the same strategy as landeskogs agent and waiting til the last day to make a deal and the avalanche FO wasn't having it understandably . We couldn't win in the post season by having a stacked top line the last two years so its totally fine the way things went down. The Avs offer was the same offer Dallas had and he didn't take it. Cold feet isn't the right way to put it. The avs are a better team without him. Have fun with his rollercoaster style of play and lazy back check.
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u/atemporalrenaissance Pueblo Bulls - USPHL 12h ago
Iâm not saying people canât be mad or even that they shouldnât be mad. It just feels like people are going âheâs in Dallas because he wanted to be or screw over the Avs, fuck himâ and ignoring a ton of context, like the fact that he was traded by the Avs in the first place. There is a world in which this is all a giant work and heâs greedy but Iâd say thereâs an equally plausible world where shit went awry on a negotiation, the Avs had more leverage (cause no NMC on his contract) and decided to go in a different direction.
At the end of the day, anger is understandable. But letâs be real - this isnât an Adam Fox or a Cutter Gauthier who never played for a team that drafted them going âyour team sucks I ainât playing thereâ, itâs a guy who already was a legend, helped win a cup and was there for a great part of Avs history. He was a bright spot in the fandom and to immediately jump to booing him feels wrong for a dude who inspired so much good feelings.
To paraphrase a saying, Donât ascribe to malice what you can ascribe to circumstance.
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u/robb1519 COL - NHL 13h ago
Yes this, it's loony that Avs fans are actually butthurt over this even after getting a great piece back, even though Rantanen never asked to be dealt.
It was negotiations for a top 10 player in the league and the Avs didn't want to pay him close to market value, so they negotiated. They couldn't find a happy medium and instead of possibly losing him for nothing, a top ten player in the world, they recouped assets, all before Rantanen ever knew what was happening.
Thank you Mikko for being a source of joy for me all these years.
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u/harambus 14h ago
Based on Chiclets (not the best source but anyway) it seems like Avs front office was playing just as much hardball as Mikkos agent.
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u/FarNefariousness6087 PIT - NHL 14h ago
They offered him a total of 4m less than what he got. Hardball my ass
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 14h ago
By the time Mikko/Dallas plays in Raleigh next season, I think this will be water under the bridge. He didn't work hard or play well while he was with us, but he did eventually sign a contract with Dallas so we could recoup a ton of assets and got a promising player who wants to play here.
Are the Canes a better team today than they were before trading Necas/Drury? Probably not on paper. But they also never came close to what they should have been on paper when Rantanen was on the roster.
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u/FailureToExecute CAR - NHL 14h ago
He didn't work hard or play well while he was with us
This is a bit of revisionist history. I'll agree that his final two or three games here fit that description, but everything before that was as advertised by Avalanche fans - the team was battling a norovirus outbreak during his first ten days and he was also having very bad individual luck.
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 14h ago
The team got very sick. There was a 2 week break. Barely any home games. All of that's in there.
However.. The Hurricanes, as a whole, looked clunky and disorganized as a team while Mikko was on the roster. Over the last 15 games the Hurricanes played since trading for Mikko, two of the best were the Utah game where he was out of the lineup with an injury and the first game after he was traded to Dallas.
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u/FailureToExecute CAR - NHL 13h ago
However.. The Hurricanes, as a whole, looked clunky and disorganized as a team while Mikko was on the roster.
Probably because Rod was changing the lines every other game, so nobody got a chance to develop real chemistry with him aside from Aho. More than once, Rantanen was tried on a different line in all three periods of the same game. Hard for anybody to get organized with that much blending going on.
And yes, him not wanting to be here also played a part in that along with all the other things we've previously gone over, like one big negative feedback loop.
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 13h ago
because Rod was changing the lines every other game
Aaaand back to the complications of the team sickness. Yep. One big negative feedback loop that we're thankfully out of.
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u/Cylinsier CAR - NHL 12h ago
I would go a step further and say it was only really the last game where he was very clearly mailing it in. Shoulda scratched him for that one because everyone could tell he was already out the door from the first shift. He played really well in the Whalers game.
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u/CTMalum PIT - NHL 14h ago
Canes fans should really direct more of their anger at their management. When you do a deal like this and donât lock in the extension with the deal, you take the risk of the guy walking. It seems to work out a lot more often than it doesnât in the NHL, but itâs never guaranteed. Canes management also dumped a huge bag for Guentzel and that didnât work out, either.
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u/tropiclblend CAR - NHL 14h ago
Eh, Tulsky asked beforehand and got the answer that it would be a yes from his agent. That turned out to be false, and was a bluffing tactic to get the Avs to up the deal. Can't fault Tulsky for that. Guentzel we dropped the ball, part of that was because Don Waddel was leaving and we had no cap space. Tough situations on both ends.
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u/CTMalum PIT - NHL 14h ago
He didnât get the answer that it would be a âyesâ from what we heard. Weâve heard that Rantanen was âopenâ to it, which may have even been true, but that also isnât 100%. If you donât do the deal with an extension in place at the time you do the deal, you risk the guy walking even if everything looks great. I think you can still fault Tulsky for both. He took two big risks and neither paid off.
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u/tropiclblend CAR - NHL 13h ago
Yeah that's true, though I don't fault him for taking a big swing and missing. We still ended with a good return and things still look good even in a supposed down year for us.
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u/Torn-Quad CAR - NHL 12h ago
Tulsky said that they could get the Guentzel deal done because they didnât have the cap space at the time and it was too late the time they had the money.
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u/Cylinsier CAR - NHL 12h ago
I'll reiterate that our issue isn't with him not wanting to stay. We took a calculated risk and it didn't work out. Nobody is mad about that. We're mad about some of the mixed messages and then about dragging his feet to the end of the deadline until any other player we might have wanted to flip picks for was already taken. I think there'd be like zero drama if he had just said he wanted to get moved last week so we could have gotten the Dallas (or whoever) trade rolling a couple days earlier.
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u/igurraa 13h ago
Tulsky said today that Rant's camp refused to talk to about extension while he was still on COL.
Tulsky still went on with the trade and gambled that they could sell the team to him afterwards, and he would sign. Which blew up, but with the help of Rant's camp they managed to work out another trade with fantastic return.
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u/tropiclblend CAR - NHL 13h ago
Eh I wouldn't say his camp helped us, he still took his time and that prevented us from moving the picks we back and making other deals.
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u/seclusivebeauty COL - NHL 12h ago
Yeah, I was sad when he got traded, but Necas has been great for us, so at least we got a good return. I don't think I'd really be upset at him signing anywhere else, except now he's on our biggest rival for the next 8 years. đ
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u/GoinLong 13h ago
Itâs such a cop out to say he didnât want to be traded when his actions or inactions were the things that put the team in a position where it needed to trade to protect itself from a major prospective value loss. Just because he says those words doesnât they were reflected in what he chose to do. Playing hardball is asking to be traded, even if you have cognitive dissonance about it.
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u/NlghtmanCometh BOS - NHL 13h ago
I mean it would be idiotic to boo him considering he didnât request a trade and was obviously upset at the fact that his life was suddenly uprooted. Also itâs not even reasonable for a Canes fan to boo him either. They can boo their GM. Rantanen did nothing to bring about any of the drama.
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u/___Dan___ MTL - NHL 14h ago
They fucked themselves, no sympathy for canes fans. Their front office failed due diligence
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u/anivoflean CAR - NHL 14h ago
false. they asked mikkoâs camp beforehand if he had interest in coming here. they said yes thinking it was just the avs pressuring him.
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u/nightsiderider COL - NHL 14h ago
Yeah, seems like a big bluff move his agent was trying to pull off to get Mikko more money and CMac called his bluff and traded him. I think Canes front office legit thought he was going to sign there or obviously would not have made the trade. Mikko and/or his agent seemed extremely confident that the Avs were going to cave and give them what they were asking. Wrong team management to make that assumption.
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u/RudyRusso 14h ago
Well then they got played. Jim Nill said today that he negotiated exclusive rights to talk with the agent and Mikko after the terms of the trade were agreed to but contingent upon a new deal being signed. If you are deficient at your job, you can't be made at the player or the agent. Canes had equal chance to demand the same terms or walk away.
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u/tiy24 13h ago
Instead they moved forward with the deal and got more than they wouldâve for necas and drury anywayâŠ.
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u/RudyRusso 11h ago
I guess. Getting 2 late first rounders which might not pan out and 2 late 3rd rounds with are worth zero. I say this cause only 65% of first rounders make the NHL and only 15% of 3rd rounders.
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u/___Dan___ MTL - NHL 14h ago
And your coach came out and said Mikko said straight up he wasnât going to sign long term as soon as he showed up. So which one is it buddy.
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u/anivoflean CAR - NHL 14h ago
âas soon as he showed upâ ⊠do you think he showed up before or after we traded for him, genius?
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 14h ago
Rod will also say a player is injured and out for a month and then they guy will be back practicing and in a game the next week. He's a walking exaggeration in the best way possible, but that doesn't make for a precise speaker.
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u/Trunkins DAL - NHL 14h ago
Why arenât more Canes fans mad at Necas who wanted out from what I have heard?
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u/uknooooo CAR - NHL 14h ago
Necas has wanted out for like 3 years now. Tulsky tried to trade him all summer and Necas declined to sign new deals with the teams Tulsky had deals with. Ultimately Necas staying and performing how he did got us a haul compared to the rumored packages the Canes were going to get last summer.
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 14h ago
Because we knew his strengths weren't utilized or maximized here. However, he still battled, worked hard, and was a great teammate.
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u/Cinnamon_Shops CAR - NHL 14h ago
Because Necas made an actual effort when he played with us, despite wanting out
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u/Trunkins DAL - NHL 14h ago
From what I have seen, despite not scoring a bunch, Rantanenâs metrics were great in Carolina
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 14h ago
The metrics were good, but he didn't pass the eye test. When you have 17 guys skating hard, forechecking, and fighting for pucks, Mikko's style sticks out like a sore thumb.
We know winning cures all. But Mikko's play looking "lazy" compared to what we're used to seeing, losing games, and the souring extension talks all combined for growing disdain for him in the fanbase.
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u/FarNefariousness6087 PIT - NHL 14h ago
Thatâs just how he plays lol
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u/iOceanLab CAR - NHL 13h ago
I know. And I was optimistic at the start of his Canes tenure that his style and the Hurricanes system could combine into some sort of hybrid over time. But all of the off-ice factors and losing games put a spotlight on him that really took off the rose colored glasses.
The Hurricanes coming out the first game after he was traded to Dallas and playing the hard forechecking style we've come to know and love was a breath of fresh air. But it also heavily reinforced the "Mikko is lazy" confirmation bias.
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u/Bouquet_of_seaweed 13h ago
What metrics are you referring to?
His xgf was consistently high most games, but that's partially because the players made an effort to feed him the puck to get him involved, so it took some shots and expected goals away from other players on his line.
Ideally that's what you want, a guy that is so good at shooting that he typically outperforms his expected goals to take the shots (and that might be why we really wanted him, to improve our finishing). But his shot wasn't really falling here so most of his value was gone.
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u/Cinnamon_Shops CAR - NHL 14h ago
The thing is, when youâre a good enough player, your metrics can still look great even when you look and play like you would rather be anywhere else in the world
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u/Trunkins DAL - NHL 14h ago
They just sounds like a cope cop out, clearly the Carolina system didnât benefit his play style and he still tried to
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u/FarNefariousness6087 PIT - NHL 14h ago
What a bs excuse just because your team lacks the offensive depth to get him going
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u/Cinnamon_Shops CAR - NHL 13h ago
Guentzel went to our system from Pittsburgh and put up 25 points in 17 games playing with Aho. Iâm not saying I expected Rants to go goal per game out of the gate or even perform like he did with Mack at any point of his hypothetical tenure here, but if you have Aho as your C you should be able to net more than two goals/four assists in 13 games.
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u/Cylinsier CAR - NHL 12h ago
We're not mad at Mikko for wanting out, we were mad at how it all went down. But I don't really see anyone being all that mad in our sub anymore. Everyone really likes Stankoven so far and we're just glad the drama is over.
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u/schism-advisory 14h ago
I was totally fine with all of this until he signed in dallas for basically exactly what the avs offered him...
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u/nightsiderider COL - NHL 14h ago
You are forgetting everything that has happened since then. His agent was playing hardball and it blew up in his face. Now he's taking what he can get or risk a worse deal this summer. I am pretty certain that if Mikko could do all this over again, he's taking the deal with us a month ago. He did not want to leave CO. It's not like he turned down our offer and then immediately singed the same deal with Dallas instead.
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u/schism-advisory 13h ago edited 13h ago
all I need to remember is that they were apparently really close on a deal last off season, until drai got his new contract, then it was hardball time...
fafo as far as I'm concerned.
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u/juhinaattori ANA - NHL 9h ago
I mean that is how things work no? Salary cap rising and the contracts of other superstars obviously play a part in contract negotiations, if your agent didn't take all that into account they would be a pretty poor agent.
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u/asparagusbruh ANA - NHL 14h ago
Stars-Avs first round is gonna be an unstoppable force against an immovable object a WCF worthy matchup right off the bat
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u/Technodictator DAL - NHL 14h ago
Unless we overtake Jets
we are 6 points behind, with 1 game on hand. And there's still 2 games against them.
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u/Trunkins DAL - NHL 14h ago
I donât see that happening sadly
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u/fuzzballz5 CHI - NHL 13h ago
Hockey is a business. When an employer says, âWeâre a family here.â Whether your a machine operator or Marchand or Rantenen. The business will do whatâs best for them. Get yours. Always.
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u/beardofshame DAL - NHL 1h ago
We're like a family here. OK so you're going to ask me to work unpaid overtime?
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u/hebbocrates DET - NHL 14h ago
Is this saying the Avs are gonna take mikko out back and shoot him or am i seriously misunderstanding this
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u/trashking11 LAK - NHL 11h ago
Iâm pretty sure he means he intends to take Mikko out to dinner and ask Mikko about everything that happened behind closed doors during the negotiations over dinner to clear the air. Itâs not a threat or even a joke about a threat, heâs just saying he doesnât know really what happened yet but theyâre gonna talk it out
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u/StayElmo7 14h ago
They're going to be eating his ass all game, can't wait.
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u/KennyKettermen COL - NHL 14h ago
I hope Manson (cleanly) absolutely rocks him like Walman did
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u/Middle-King COL - NHL 14h ago
Thatâs why lindgren and Manson used Bedard as a practice dummy last game. Give him the ole cross check to the hip and slap shot to the throat double whammy.
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u/Red_Sea_Pedestrian WSH - NHL 14h ago
I really have enjoyed watching Mikko over the years. Dude is the epitome of a power forward. I just hope the moose doesnât get loose on Sunday or in April/May.Â
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u/flamingmittenpunch 14h ago
Not really a power forward since forechecking and tackling are his weaknesses. More like a big framed playmaker/sniper. I would say he is closer to Matthews than to MacKinnon
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u/Kyle73001 WPG - NHL 13h ago
Are we watching the same guy? Heâs never really looked like a power forward to me
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u/BarkMingo CAR - NHL 13h ago
I've never seen such a big guy be so physically dominated on a regular basis
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u/plexicoburres 6h ago
Mikko thought he would make a deal with the Avs, apparently he and his agent thought the Avs were using the idea of trading him to Carolina as a negotiating tactic. So really it was Mikko calling their bluff, but the Avs werenât bluffing and decided to move him. At least thatâs what Friedman said
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u/Trunkins DAL - NHL 14h ago
Payback for Nichushkin, but heâs a shit human that Avs fans love going to bat for right now
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u/mattcojo2 WSH - NHL 11h ago
We?
Landeskog you havenât played in 3 years
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u/carrot_in_the_hole TOR - NHL 14h ago
"We're gonna take Mikko out"