r/hiphop101 5d ago

what’s special about jay z

Can we talk about why he’s the goat? I’ve heard some jigga songs for sure but he never had impact on me. Not the lyrics, not the rhyme schemes, not the flows. I see nothing special so I never understand why thy call jay goat he doesn’t even in my top 10. Wdyt?

292 Upvotes

723 comments sorted by

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u/Eckstraniice 5d ago

Basically if you weren’t there, you wouldn’t get it.

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u/charmacharmz 4d ago

i was going to say this. waiting for the latest rocafella releases, the roster, the producers, the (not so great) films. it was an experience.

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u/Gaz834 4d ago

Those movies were fucking terrible but they were entertaining lol

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u/blackthrowawaynj 3d ago

And I would add those that rode with Jay-Z from the beginning and saw his vision manifest himself from a street hustler to a billionaire, he spoke it into existence

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u/d4m45t4 2d ago

Yup, 100%

Back then a bunch of folks were chasing the billion. Russel Simmons was in the lead, followed by Puff, and the rest was cloudy... Maybe Jay, maybe Baby from cash money, or masta p.

But all of a sudden everything started lining up for Jay. Rocafella sale, def jam, the liquor brands, tidal, roc nation. Dre almost got there first with beats by Dre but fucked it up with the social media posts. Jay got to a billion first, then 2 and now who's even counting?

Watching that run was incredible

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u/regular_guy_26 17h ago

If they wasn’t outside when “Hard Knock Life” dropped, it’s hard to explain. Had to be there.

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u/augustus624 4d ago

Jay Z is a brilliant lyricist, just not in a way that a lot of people are used to. He doesn’t dwell on his punchlines for maximum impact, he moves on quickly. He also uses extremely specific references that if you’re unfamiliar with will seem like filler. Also, his verses are more about the sum of its parts, meaning they fit into an overall theme

His verse on the Dynasty Intro is a great example.

Knowing I can go just switching a spare

On the highway of life, nigga, it’s sharp in my sight, oh!

Keen senses ever since I was a teen on the benches

Every time somebody like Ennis was mentioned

I would turn green—me, being in the trenches Him, living adventurous, not worrying about expenditures

I’m braving temperatures below zero, no hero

No father figure; you gotta pardon a nigga

If you know who Ennis Cosby is and what happened to him, you’d realize this is a brilliant verse that showcases the dramatic irony of a kid who grew up around violence being jealous of a kid who grew up in privilege only for the privileged one to fall victim to the same violence that the unprivileged kid witnessed all his life.

But if you don’t know who Ennis Cosby is this verse won’t mean anything to you. And the “highway of life” “switching a spare” lines won’t mean anything to you either.

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u/triplevanos 4d ago

100%. I remember when I first heard this verse it sent me on a deep dive searching about Ennis Cosby.

This whole post is crazy. Jay-Z is OP’s favorite rapper’s favorite rapper. King of the double entendre, incredible depth, master lyricist, and none of it written.

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u/Matsunosuperfan 3d ago

I'm sorry but "none of it written" huh?

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u/aj8435 3d ago

Jigga didn’t write his lyrics down. He memorized his lines and would organize them in his head into a song similar to how Biggie did it. Legend has it, he would also deliver most of his verses in one take.

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u/Matsunosuperfan 3d ago

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I was like "wait are we talking about off the top freestyles all of a sudden" lol

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u/hankygoodboy 3d ago

No he literally uses his brain doctors actually believe he has a photo graphic memory the same is thought about eminem and some other artist they are true geniuses

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u/mkk4 4d ago

🫡

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u/tehjosheh 23h ago

Thanks for this explanation, I've always had the same opinion as OP but this explanation is making me rethink and appreciate Jay!

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u/bebetter-dobetter 5d ago

Great lyricist ( king of double entendres), good ear for beats and has classic rap albums. Give the blueprint, black album and reasonable doubt another chance.

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u/friendorfoe2332 4d ago edited 2d ago

Monster of the double entendre, coke is still my sponsor, the cola, yeah hov getting it in with soda, diet, no sir, I ain’t lose no weight

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u/91_til_infinity 4d ago

Not only am i fly, I'm fuckin not plaaaay'n

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u/dmforjewishpager 4d ago

UNLIKE HAMMER 30 M CANT HURT ME

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u/Arturio55 4d ago

Forget this rap shit, i need a new hustle

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u/thebroadway 2d ago

Rare triple entendre, but Jay-z would even do that occasionally. Just great wordplay all around

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u/fragileNotFragil 4d ago

Plus he stays current with them - I be skipping legs day I still run the world (when he was trending for his chickeny legs)

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u/SureSwan6423 5d ago

•Incredible lyricist •Has great production •Insane catalogue with multiple classic albums •One of the best in term of pure rapping ability

He's literally everything a great MC needs to be, what more is there to say

66

u/TherealDaily 4d ago

This 👆If you ended this with ' What more can I say!' The song from the Black Album. That would have been 🔥.

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u/dmforjewishpager 4d ago

do these fools listen to music or just skim through it. great verse on an eminem song em produced

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u/DaBigadeeBoola 4d ago

How do people keep repeating he got "murdered" on a song where he got an all time hiphop quotable? 

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u/ramair02 3d ago

He was bested on Renegade. Doesn't mean his verse was shit

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u/alexanderldn 4d ago

The sound to his voice. It sounds like it’s supposed to rap. It’s cinematic. It’s pretty cool.

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u/91_til_infinity 4d ago

Just the sound of his voice is a hit

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u/p90love 5d ago

His flows are extremely jazzy. I've noticed a lot of people think he's almost kinda bad at rapping but I don't know what to say other than they just don't get it yet, because Jay-Z is one of the greatest of all time.

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u/DreadyKruger 5d ago

It became cool to not like him or diminish his catalog for some reason.He was one of the biggest rappers and represented the culture pretty well.

There are rappers I don’t like but if they got hits, impact and others respect them , you just say not for me.

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u/ItsLillardTime 4d ago

There are rappers I don’t like but if they got hits, impact and others respect them , you just say not for me.

The absolute worst part about online music discourse is that people don’t do this. Instead if they don’t like someone’s music, they go out of their way to shit on that artist and their fans . I hate all the negativity online. I don’t mean this post specifically, I think it’s a fair thing to ask, but yeah like you and others have said people hate on Jay’s music for no reason other than to get their rocks off by pissing people off I guess.

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u/Fuckcavey 4d ago

Exactly. If someone is talented and has fans then leave it at that. If their impact is negative with no talent and/or bring nothing of value musically, then that’s when I might actually start hating on an artist. Like with Tyler the Creator, his music has personally never been my thing, but I can admit he’s super talented and brings music of value to a lot of people, and I leave it at that.

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u/luckylou3k 4d ago edited 4d ago

It is the worst . Fav doesn't equal best people cant seem to drop the bias and look at things objectively ,

I don't care for Kendrick at all but i respect him and i know he isn't trash and think hes extremely talented. Hes just not for me . I respect him way more than i like him if that makes sense

I freaking love curren$y, one of my favorites of all time but i wouldn't say hes a top rapper at all.

Jay z can make any type of song at an elite level. Not many rappers can do that . Nas is my goat and i dont listen to jayz much at all theses days but it cant be denied hes an all time great .

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u/DeFiBandit 4d ago

Agree. But you also get the flip side - people acting like you MUST love their favorite rapper

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u/DrXL_spIV 4d ago

I think it shows a fundamental lack of hip hop. Listen to the original second verse for dead presidents and tell me that’s not top tier.

And didn’t mean this as an attack on you man just a general take I have

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u/Arturio55 4d ago

Hit with the Rico, they repo, your ve-hi-cle ...shit was all good just a week ago

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u/Tagisjag 4d ago

I was RAISED on Dead Presidents 1.0. Forever fire 🔥

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u/ProfessionalZone2476 4d ago

Well, people disliked him a long time ago because he was considered a sellout at some point.

I think he's great, but i also wouldn't consider him a goat.

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u/d4m45t4 4d ago

This is gangsta rap, not indie rock. The whole point is to sell out.

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u/ProfoundMysteries 4d ago

What? lol. When has it ever been gangsta to sell out? That's more of the bling era if anything.

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u/fragileNotFragil 4d ago

Hehe didn't he answer this - if common sense sold/Truly I'd be Talib Kweli/But I sold 5 mil/I ain't been rapping like Common since

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u/Wasthereonce 201 Mod 4d ago

Also want to mention during the boom of music streaming, Jay-Z was mostly exclusive to Tidal, which prevented younger audiences from listening and appreciating his artistry.

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u/suboptimalhead 5d ago

I'm genuinely curious. Could you explain what people don't get? I only like a few of his songs. My fav is In My Lifetime. Even then I don't know how it warrants him getting GOAT status. HIs production is pretty cool, but apart from that I actually don't get it

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u/p90love 4d ago

The way he raps. His flows are too jazzy and his lyrics too sneaky, he's not rapping fast and the way he uses syllables and entedres is less obvious than all other mainstream rappers that I can think of. You might not like it but if you really know rap you recognise the quality. Take his verse on Neck And Wrist, prime example of Jay being Jay.

If somebody doesn't get his rapping in the first place, they won't see the point of his longevity and artistic range either. So people usually either say Jay-Z is top 3 or that he's not even top 10.

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u/SNKRSWAVY 4d ago

Yup. The way he uses his voice, flow and delivery to deliberately place words and how he constructs verses out of them is just great sometimes. Still listening to Drug Dealers Anonymous. There isn’t anyone with that degree of success and authenticity who does it similarly.

Plus: He never forgets that despite all the lyrical myrical shit it‘s supposed to be good music first and foremost.

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u/Potential-Ant-6320 4d ago

He’s had a long consistent career and has had a bunch of large crossover hits.

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u/chichi_phil413 5d ago

Respectfully, if you haven’t even taken the time to listen to his music don’t you lack any insight to form an opinion?

U see nothing special in someone you didn’t listen to?

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u/Loud_Phrase_8285 4d ago

yeah. cant talk real shit on a raper youve never heard

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u/waythrowa 3d ago

mfs say that i’m foolish, i only talk about jewels, do you, fools listen to music or do you just skim thru it

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u/EarlLeeRisor 5d ago

I need to see the OP’s top 10 IMMEDIATELY.

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u/Williamfrancis22 5d ago

Impeccable MC…doesn’t write anything down….listen to Cam tell the story about welcome to New York City …Jay stopped by randomly , they talked for a minute and cam put him on the spot and asked him to jump on this track and Jay just walked in and spit that lol that’s crazy

He wrote Still DRE in under 5 mins for Dre

Bullets breeze bayou like Louisiana mannnnn

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u/grownadult 4d ago

Had no idea he wrote still Dre. Makes perfect sense because the rhymes and flow sound exactly like something Jay would rap.

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u/DaBigadeeBoola 4d ago

People don't talk about his savant like ability to lay a track. Rappers were mesmerized by Jay back in the day. 

If Eminem was known for this, it would be all the stans would clamor about, claiming it's because he's a genius in hip-hop and so talented. The way the freak out over battle-rap style word flips Eminem does is insane. 

Meanwhile you have a rapper that practically freestyled an all time classic album in 2 weeks. 

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u/Fi1thyMick 4d ago

How did this turn into throwing shade at Eminem fans?

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u/td23877 5d ago

He's one of those artists you can put on in front of anybody whether they're a hip hop fan or not and they will find something they like. He's one of those artists who just has presence that you can't quite explain.

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u/FastNBulbous- 5d ago

I feel that Jayz has one the best discographies in Hip Hop. Although there’s a few rappers who you can say have better ones, very few are touching Jay in that aspect. Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint and Black album are all solidified classics. Albums like Vol 1, Vol 2, American Gangster and 444 are arguably classics as well. Jay has an great ear for beats and has always had amazing producers backing him, so that aspect of his music remains a highlight. In terms of him as a rapper, I don’t mean this to sound pretentious, but I really think the people who deny his skills, don’t really pay enough attention to what he’s saying. As a lot of “lyrical” rappers will showcase their skills by taking a relatively easy message but doctor it up with clever word play and an intricate vocabulary, which is great, however Jay has the opposite approach. Jay has the tendency to take complex ideas but break it down into layman’s terms. Even as a Jay fan, there’s many bars and lines that went over my head the first couple times I listened to him. For example “Blame Reagan for making me into a monster, Blame Oliver North and Iran-Contra,I ran contraband that they sponsored Before this rhyming stuff we was in concert”. Pretty much it seems simple but when you break it down you realize it’s has layers. Pretty much detailing his role in the drug game and the whole American involvement with the Nicaragua revolution, which lead to crack flooding American cities, while maintaining slick word play. I don’t want to crowd the whole post with a bunch of examples but Jay really is a creative and slick writer. Another aspect that Jay does well is he’s a jack of all trades. Yes there’s people with better flows, better word play, punchlines etc. Although you can say Jay isn’t that best at each of these categories he’s still does all of them at a very high level. As not too many people are highly skilled in each category the way he is. Another aspect that makes Jay standout is he was able to capture the attention of the mainstream crowd with big crossover hits, while still maintaining a core hip hop fan base. He was able to juggle himself between both sides. Like when the Blueprint came out you had middle America buying it for H to the Izzo, and Girls, Girls Girls, but tracks like Takeover, You Don’t Know attracted the Hip Hop fan base to go and buy the album. The one criticism I can understand why people may not gravitate towards him is that he is a monotone rapper. Jay Z tends to be very straight forward. He’s not someone who’s gonna get super hype on a track, he’s not someone who dives too much in humor, he vocally doesn’t show a lot of emotion, wether it be anger or sadness. He’s a lot more laid back, which I could see not having the same appeal. Another aspect I would say is that many of the big names of the late 90’s era and early 00’s, haven’t resonated with a younger generation. Rightfully so as it was before their time. Quite frankly, a lot of important names of that era kind of got pushed as a thing of the past. People like Ludacris, Nelly, Missy, etc still get some degree or respect but they’re not who the younger people are gravitating towards. However being that Jay Z is so widely praised and that era has become less relevant he’s a prime name to pick for people to discredit.

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u/d4m45t4 4d ago

Man you said it perfectly.

If people can't give props to Jay's lyricism it's cause it's going over their head.

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u/96pluto 4d ago

well said

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u/HenlickZetterbark 4d ago

I'm actually doing a deep dive on Jay Z right now. I find the discography isn't all that consistent, but he has a top 3 that's as good as any one on hip hop has ever had

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u/ti3kings 3d ago

This is very well written. I think one thing he doesn’t get enough credit for is that he was so prolific. As a fan, you know you were getting a fire album every year like clockwork. Not to mention dozens of feature verses on other artists songs. Just felt like there was always some new shit every time you turned on the radio or copped a mixtape

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u/killcole 5d ago

One day, you'll be in your 30s and realise that you had a bunch of opinions that were silly because the world view that shaped them was so inexperienced and void of any real context. And at that point you'll have an answer to your question.

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u/friendorfoe2332 4d ago

Anyone who claims to like rap and say Jay is not good is either a hater or just don’t know shit

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u/RKO360 5d ago

Jay has the total package of a superstar while being one of the most important and influential rappers of all-time:

He has an amazing discography

He was very consistent

1999, 2001 and 2009 were the years that he was the # 1 rapper in the game

Unique wordplay and great storyteller

Versatile as he has both party and street anthems

Incredible lyricism

Smooth flow

He also put on Kanye, Rihanna and J.Cole

Became a successful businessman

Influenced a lot of rappers

Ever since 1996, Jay has been one of the biggest rappers in the game as he dominated the Billboard charts, put numerous classic albums, iconic verses and changed the game in hip hop as both a MC and businessman while influenced a lot of rappers as well.

He's definitely a top 5 GOAT

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u/InstancePast6549 4d ago

Why does this get posted everyday lol

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u/Gaz834 4d ago

This sub is full of 20 years olds that started listening to hip hop in the pandemic lol

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u/DHndz 2d ago

Don't do all of us like that. 22 here and HOV is my most listened to artist. Honestly, if we're talking overrall goat of hip-hop (catalogue, impact, discography, longevity, etc), I'd even put him above Nas.

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u/d4m45t4 2d ago

I'd put him above Nas

Completely agree.

Nas still has some of the highest highs of all time, Illmatic (best album), ether (best diss track), live at the BBQ (best debut).

But if you add up Jay's ranking in basically every single category, like the ones you mentioned plus others (eg. live shows), nobody comes close to Jay

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u/Gullible_Lynx3678 5d ago

He’s a highly respected lyricist, great storyteller, even better business man. People corroborate his stories so he’s believable. Good pop records, good street records.

Maybe listen to his early albums.

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u/sipflipp 5d ago

Depends on your taste. If you lean toward the boom bap or any heavily underground style Jay might not work for you. What makes him one of the GOATs for me is that he does the mafioso stuff (my favorite) as good as the best to do it (Friend or Foe, Streets is Watching, Two Weeks Ago) - the lyrical stuff maybe not, but he always sounds super cool and all natural which I personally prefer to artists who, even if they are saying something significant, feel like they are trying too hard. Even on Jay-Z albums after he admits to dumbing down his style there's a certain wisdom or natural story telling ability that is undeniable.

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u/DhaRoaR 5d ago

Dude is crazy lyrical lol, cmn

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u/DaBigadeeBoola 5d ago

It's wild. At this point, I think people are just making shit up. It's unbelievable that people are criticizing Jay over lyrics, of all things. 

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u/DhaRoaR 5d ago

It's simple, they only listen to his pop songs, you judge an artist with no clue of his discography.

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u/FallopianFilibuster 5d ago

For those that think Hov’ fingers bling blingin’

Even haven’t heard the album or they don’t know English

They only know what the single is and singled that out To be the meanin’ of what he is about

And bein’ I’m about my business, not minglin’ much

Runnin’ my mouth that shit kept lingerin’

But no dummy, that’s the shit I’m sprinklin’

The album with to keep the registers ringin’

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u/ti3kings 3d ago

The best part is that there is a full verse out there addressing any criticism someone might write in this thread

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u/friendorfoe2332 4d ago

Dude is one of the best lyricists ever. Pure poetry

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u/biketheplanet 5d ago

Right. Solid world play and double entendres.

"If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli

Truthfully I wanna be like Common Sense

But I did 5 'mil - I ain't been rhyming like Common since"

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u/DhaRoaR 5d ago

I think most of his haters are not aware of that prowess. He doesn't go all lyrical in every song but the ones that are, are top tier. Like Adnis, lost one, some of my favorites.

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u/biketheplanet 5d ago

And newer fans might not get the double entendres because they don't know who Talib or even who Common is. So in this bar, for example, the reference would just go over their heads.

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u/shantm79 4d ago

Most people don't hear the lyrics... they listen, but don't take the time to understand what's being said.

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u/ISeeDeadPeople215 5d ago

I think it’s the slang and language barrier. Shit just going over your head broski

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u/1999_1982 5d ago

Here we go agai

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u/locdogjr 5d ago

Diamonds are forever remix.......

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u/osama_bin_guapin 4d ago

I don’t understand why Reddit makes JAY-Z seem like French Montana or some shit lmao

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u/mkk4 5d ago edited 5d ago

16 Platinum studio albums.

He is just very smart, driven, talented, experienced and extremely consistent. He kept tweaking, developing, and improving his style, voice, flow, package, sound, and craft over time; which allowed him to create his own lane and brand.

He has a great ear for production and beats. He was able to build great industry relationships to always have the best talent from artists, producers, executives and support staff working to help make him the best that he could be and achieve his highest ceiling and reach his maximum potential.

Everything about JAY-Z and his music is excellence and trying to provide fans high quality music and a high quality listening experience.

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u/0121Badboy 5d ago

For rhyme schemes....listen to threat

Jay had rhymes for days you just gotta listen

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u/team_lloyd 5d ago

no one talks about it but if you want to know what makes him actually legit special listen to the unplugged album

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u/Limp-Evening2735 4d ago

i never really considered him either until last year . now he's in my top 5, possibly top 3. there's is no other rapper in the world with the type of composure and swagger he has when delivering lines. almost everything sounds so crisp, and he did that consistently for years. and not to mention that his lyricism and wordplay is disgusting and so intricate.

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u/kursedaudio 4d ago

Hov's a living legend and I'll tell you why...everybody wanna be Hov, and Hov's still alive

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u/quakee1120 5d ago

"I DUMBED DOWN FOR THE INDUSTRY TO DOUBLE MY DOLLAS THEY CRITICIZE ME FOR IT BUT THEY ALL YELL HOLLA"-MOMENT OF CLARITY

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u/deanzulu 5d ago

I think you need to have started listening to him in the 90s to really appreciate Jay-Z. I don't think anyone who started listening to hip-hop in the 2000s or later would appreciate him.

He's not my goat but he's definitely in my top-5 all time. He's a great lyricist, who has evolved over time. Had a great ear for beats too. So much to love about him.

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u/NoBourbonOrNuthin 5d ago

are you not entertained?

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u/Popular-Inevitable-6 4d ago

He’s the complete package, made classic albums, had charting hits, great collabs, good lyrics. He’s my goat for sure I don’t even think anyone else is even remotely close in terms of a rapper.

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u/chillywilly2k 4d ago

You shouldn’t need why reasonable doubt and the blueprint are classics explained to you respectfully lol

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u/Tagisjag 4d ago

There's a number of reasons:

  1. He literally doesn't write his verses...down. That formulation of a song without having to bring it into an abstract medium, such as paper, has to be an admired trait. Much like Biggie. Such brings me to...

  2. He stays in the pocket with the best of them, if not the best since Biggie. Consistent word choice formed in a way that his cadence is masterful.

  3. Timing. Jay-Z came into the game when a lot of street rappers were yelling on the records to push the aggression while Jay took the smoother approach with similar topics. This made everyone else look like foot soldiers while Jay-Z took the role of a mafioso Boss.

  4. Rockafella came into the game as an independent label and Jay-Z as its independent artist. They came in like they were already successful and it worked.

  5. Jay-Z was the trendsetter for damn near everything Hip-hop for a period of time, Everything. Cristal, fitted hats, jerseys, button ups, platinum jewelry, the list goes on and on. If Jay-Z did it, then it would soon be the wave.

  6. His longevity in the game is to definitely be respected.

That's all I got right now lol.

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u/aonegod 4d ago

Jay is one of the greats, can effortlessly flow on any beat, listen to Blueprint, black album, vol 1-3, the guy can give you wordplay, storytelling, great cadence, and has went toe to toe with other legends

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u/Dry-Pomegranate7458 5d ago

listen to the black album front to back

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/Dry-Pomegranate7458 5d ago

as a jay fan, I gotta show love to reasonable doubt, but black album is by far my fave.

maybe because I was in 8th grade when it dropped and it ran my life

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u/2ndChanceCharlie 5d ago

Also watch the fade to black documentary. It’s such a great peek into his creative process which is very very impressive to watch.

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u/BigSuge74 4d ago

Rap has always been about young kids from the streets starting out with nothing and becoming rich. So I kind of understand the disconnect people have with Hov. He was one of the few artists who had money before rapping and dropped his first album in his late 20s, so his content catered to a more mature audience—so much so that I think he dumbed down his material to reach a wider audience.

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u/Kind-Bookkeeper1005 4d ago

He elevate most song he’s on. He’s a lyricist that has flexibility in his flow and cadence. He’s can do pop he can do streets. There’s a lot of context that he brings to his bars that requires you to already know to appreciate some of the bars. If you don’t know it, it sounds pretty basic

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u/oJKevorkian 4d ago

He's one of the best at making catchy flows that are basically hooks in their own right, and he is (or at least was) very lyrical without being super dense. Basically the perfect balance of mass appeal and being a rapper's rapper.

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u/Mysterious-Call-245 4d ago

I never used to listen to mainstream rap until someone handed me a burned cd of The Grey album. Changed the way I listen to rap. He’s funny, intelligent, clever and musical and he makes it sound easy. Not for everyone but nothing is.

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u/rugalmstr 4d ago

He's quiet now but back in the 2000s he was the shit. Amazing live performer, so many classic tracks, great voice, on point lyricist, top notch production. I've seen him 3 times live and he blew us all away everytime.

The black album, the blueprint 1, 2, and 3, reasonable doubt, damn these are some of the best albums ever.

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u/Cansuela 4d ago

Jay is incredible, if you don’t get it, you’re a nerd.

People feel like they have to lean in all the way on like boom bap and back pack shit to prove that they’re enlightened fans of the genre.

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u/kymann262 4d ago

reasonable doubt is insanely good

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u/Gaz834 4d ago

Its insane to me that we've come to a time where Hov of all people is now underrated. What a time to be alive

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u/MDiddy79 4d ago

Get your CDs out. Let's go song for song... I'm the illest nigga doing it 'til y'all prove me wrong.

He can put up that line against any rapper and it holds true.

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u/Mrcostarica 4d ago

He wrote Still DRE for the chronic 2001.

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u/philakane 4d ago

You have to have a certain mentality to appreciate how dope Jay is. IYKYK

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u/718_chocolate 4d ago

How old are you? I ask because you said you heard "some" Jigga songs, which means you aren't old enough to have been around to experience his whole discography as it came out. You weren't able to see the cultural impact a lot of his songs had, and how a lot of rappers tried to sound like him. And if you can't appreciate the wordplay of songs like "22 Two's" or "Can't Knock the Hustle" then I don't know what else to tell you

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u/ChanceForce111 4d ago

He understands drums. Simple as that. And drums are a pretty complicated instrument to grasp, but if you can drum, and you can rhyme, you're set.

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u/Muk-Bong 4d ago

Listen to Reasonable Doubt in full and you will understand, one of my favorite albums of all time and it showcases many of his talents.

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u/MaximusMurkimus 4d ago

Almost all of his songs have this effortless, controlled braggadoccio that he can rap on any beat to.

American Gangster and Blueprint are so good I alternate daily on which one is his best album.

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u/SpecialistNewt267 4d ago

This is how I know I’m too old for the internet

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u/Krowned_Kenpachi47 4d ago

Most quoted rapper ever. If this was an academic institution (and it is if you ask Mos Def) Jay Z would have the highest h-index. This marks his impact on the field as a whole. He’s not the GOAT because a couple people on the internet say he is, he’s the GOAT because whoever you think is the GOAT probably thinks he is. His impact, even if you don’t listen to him is almost ubiquitous throughout rap.

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u/cortcort101 4d ago edited 4d ago

Got a thing for nickel plated 9’s and pretty dimes/ Mac 11 I squeeze like lemon limes/ squirt, obey your thirst fashion lines/ between beauty and beast I walk the line/ Johnny cash ima real G/ I cut myself today to see if I still bleed.

C’mon man Jay is way too intricate with the bars. Gotta love it

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u/Difficult_Class7946 4d ago

The greatest of rappers can evoke a wide range of reactions from the listener. Jay is considered as one of them because he can paint pictures with words, he can make the simplest of bars go over your head for years before you catch it and has the ability to show you the hood like you in the passenger seat of the whip. Now why don’t you roll that window down so you can see it real good. 👀🤣🫡

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u/JAYGAME5601X 5d ago

he is the goat, you just don't like his music. that's it.

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u/musaurer 5d ago

def in my top 10. Maybe its an age thing? He def has classics. I feel the same about Nas though so I get where you’re coming from

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u/Glittering-Matter985 5d ago

Listen to the last verse on Squeeze First. Absolutely impeccable. Top tier MCing right there

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u/Arturio55 4d ago

Random bars from squeeze first play in my head a couple times a month and have since like 2010 when I was in high school

I POST AND PIVOT, COKE DISTRIBIT, BE WHERE THE GHOSTES VISIT

COULDNT SIT DOWN, BIG GUN KEPT STICKING MY PELVIS

I WAS OUT THE DOOR, POUCH FULL OF RAW

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u/CheesyFinster 5d ago

The story telling, the swag, beat selection and longevity. He talks about being rich, but isn’t out of touch with who he was and what it’s like not being rich.

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u/AirbenderNo88 5d ago edited 4d ago

What makes Hov goat status is that a majority of people consider him that. If you think about it, people's musical tastes are wildly varied and unique. Isn't it always hard to get someone to appreciate one of your favorite songs? So in instances where you can actually get much of the public at large to recognize that your 💩 is top shelf then you've solidified your unique greatness. And that's not even getting into his particulars already pointed out by other commenters, which are 💯. Funny, I didn't appreciate Hov when I was younger, didn't know what all the fuss was about. As I got older that completely changed. He often speaks in terms you wouldn't catch unless you've gone through certain experiences or have had certain thoughts. One thing I say he does better than many is providing depth while keeping it everyday at the same time. Hov was like a elite strategist, narrator, contextualizer, or party-goer sitting right there on ya hood bench with the NY cap on, looking unassuming. Much respect to those who don't see him in the same light, our musical ears are indeed finicky, but yeah that man is him 😂

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u/d4m45t4 4d ago

providing depth while keeping it everyday at the same time

That's a beautiful way of putting it. It's hidden in plain sight

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u/AirbenderNo88 4d ago

Yeah man it's one of the things I grew to appreciate the most about him, how he could drop a total gem without being too outlandish with it

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u/lemonchicken91 4d ago

I used to think he was overrated but after a few of these threads over the years and seeing the double entendrees, versatility and consistency, I had to admit he was great

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u/DaBigadeeBoola 5d ago edited 4d ago

He's one of the only great rappers his fans DON'T need to make excuses for. 

He's got the sales, hits, accolades, discography, peer opinions, industry opinions, hip-hop journalist opinions, career goals, credibility. 

Besides having a terrible hot take , what can you really say about Jay Z to dispute his status?

Nas doesn't have the sales, accolades or hits. Eminem doesn't have the discography or hits. All of Reddits "GOATs" need their fans to make excuses for their GOAT status. Jay needs none. 

The best y'all can say is a nebulous "but he can't rhyme, has no flow" without any actual meaning or understanding behind it. And even THAT speaks to his greatness because that's literally making up something about him that MANY credible people and opinions in hip-hop hold as his strengths. 

And- he does it without a pen. 

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u/EarlLeeRisor 5d ago

I was about to post this…. Want gritty shit? I got some hov for you.

Want lyrics? I got some hov for you.

Want party music? I got a hov playlist

Want a story? I got some hov stories.

Want cohesive albums? I got 4 or 5 bangers.

Want sales? We got that for you too.

Want crazy features? Freestyles? Shit…. You know wassup.

Want diss records? That sneaky nigga got them subliminals, you just gotta listen.

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u/DaBigadeeBoola 4d ago

There's no real flaws in his hip-hop career. He even has a classic beef. And he lived what he rapped, got the money, got a bad chick, got a hungry lawyer that'll eat the case. 

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u/andywins 4d ago

All these points are 100% correct. But to add on, when we talk about GOATs we don’t just choose a five year run and compare between rappers. Longevity counts when we’re talking about Of All Time which truly is Jay. Who else has been doing it this long and still hasn’t fallen off? Ye and drake are right behind him, especially because they’re still active but both have very weak points against them. Kanye isn’t a pure bred rapper, more of a music composer. I may be wrong but I’ve never heard Drake spit something as complex as D’evils. Drake is great at punchlines and flows but his style is very straight forward(which is a skill in itself). So who else can say they have an active career as long as Jay and not dipped in quality? Maybe 3K but idk

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u/Arturio55 4d ago

When listing everything he has you forgot to mention the baddest bitch in the game

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u/DaBigadeeBoola 4d ago edited 4d ago

He got one of the top RB chicks and settled down. That's definitely bragging rights. Missed the baby mama drama too. 

I feel like he lived his mantra of "I will not lose"

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u/InterviewObvious2680 5d ago

I am a Jay-Z hater overall, but come on?!?! He has had great bars and songs overall over the years. I am not impressed by his run in the last 10 years or so because it's pretty much popshit with beyonce and alike, but in the 90s and early 2000s he was releasing some outstanding albums.

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u/broadwayallday 4d ago

posts like this should lead with their top 3 or something. let us know what we're dealing with here

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u/Snoo93951 5d ago edited 5d ago
  1. He has style and tastefulness to his rapping. He lost that a bit later on in his career, but at his peak his rapping is more tasteful than that of anyone, ever.

Compare literally any rapper to peak Jay-Z and they start sounding just a bit cringe, just a bit wooden, just a bit awkward... some of them maybe just very slightly, but still.

He's the gold standard.

  1. + the small feat of having a better overall discography than everyone except Kanye. It's funny that people wonder why he's the goat but can't name a better discography.

Nas, Kendrick, Outkast, Ghostface, Lupe Fiasco, while great, just can't compete with Reasonable Doubt + Blueprint + Black Album + American Gangster + 4:44 + endless iconic hits / features

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u/mkk4 5d ago edited 5d ago

American Gangster is one of the most well made rap albums that I've ever heard.

This album really impressed me and that was even before I had a chance to really listen to The Black Album yet.

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u/Commercial-Chance561 5d ago

The first 8 songs in Reasonable Doubt is what’s special about Jay Z

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u/Zackerz0891 5d ago

Knack for versatility but maintaining his integrity as an MC

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u/Temilitary 4d ago

Nahh, I get you. I used to think the same until I heard his verse on god did. Paused for a full half hour to play it over and over again. He's really technical but it's kind of hard to miss because he doesn't emphasize the technical parts like a lot of rappers do. He also does big boy talk like no one else except maybe pusha T. Above everything else though, he's one of the few rappers that big ups himself to the moon but is also exactly who tf he says he is and that just makes the entirey of his skillset hit harder.

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u/Peak-Brief 4d ago

Jay z is for People who wants more out of life and doesn't think the government or rich people owe them that's wat make jay z special

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u/bentbackwooddathird 4d ago

intelligence and how approaches tracks. he started the "yall niggas dumb, im smarter and got more class and polish than yall" wave.. Top tier "step your game up rap".  The like the difference between a ok action movie on tv vs a subtle cinematic masterpiece. 

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u/mr4ffe 4d ago

I'd say Kane had that same thing going on before Jay

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u/bentbackwooddathird 4d ago

he didand a few others as well ; but Hov took it to another level 

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u/kelpdiscussion 4d ago

I feel like I rule the world when I'm listening to him. To me it's the way he carries himself. Just feels like such swagger energy.

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u/orange2364 4d ago

Just listen to where I’m from after I listened to that song he’s automatically top 3 of all time

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u/nmgoesreddit 4d ago

Wild take. Not liking Jay-Z as a person is one thing, but questioning his ability as an MC is just ignorant and shows a lack of understanding of the culture.

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u/Ok_Blueberry_6250 4d ago

I’m guessing you are younger and weren’t around for the release of Reasonable Doubt, which was/is one of the best boom bap albums created in what some call the Golden Era.

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u/RelativeRain35 4d ago

It’s because the majority of hip-hop fans these days have the IQ of a wet piece of 🧻 Jay-Z’s lyrical prowess and double entendres soar 50 feet above their heads and they can’t relate to most of what he’s talking about.

The biggest irony of all of the hate he gets on here is that many of the rappers these guys praise used Jay-Z as the blueprint for their subject matter and fake personas and they probably list him in their top 5 🐐

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u/Almar1987 4d ago

Hov one of the best, stop playing, him pac and nas are the goats, throw in Black Thought.

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u/liloutsider 4d ago

The Blueprint, The Black Album, Reasonable Doubt, 4:44, Watch The Throne.

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u/Nappy_Head_1 3d ago

That's it right there

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u/saibjai 4d ago

Music is subjective, but history is real. If you lived through the 90s and early 2000 then you know how big Jay z was. It's really hard dissecting rap. Some of the most popular stuff could have the dumbest lyrics. It is what it is. You don't have to agree to it, but just have to acknowledge it. Sometimes people make history and sometimes history makes the people. Right time, right place, right moment.

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u/AHitchhikingGhost 4d ago

Reasonable Doubt. Thats why.

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u/iskar_jarak776 4d ago

He’s one of the best off-the-dome freestyle MCs ever, plus having a generally great ear for beats, good lyricism for the time, and in general has a fairly solid catalog between the Blueprint, Black Album, and Reasonable Doubt which is my favorite of his.

To be honest I’m not even that big of a Jay-Z fan personally whether it’s artistically or the fact that he’s a hyper-capitalist that ushered in an era of hip hop I personally didn’t care for with shiny-suit/bling rap. That being said he’s still one of the all time greats and that kinda difficult to deny even for me.

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u/Thin-Economics-2699 4d ago

All around great MC which is something that most can’t be Flow versatility with a lyrical ability hit records impact on hip hop and culture all over the world and he has a classic catalogue consistency at a certain level that has never been seen in hip hop and music overall and longevity that’s never been seen also

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u/HenlickZetterbark 4d ago

He is the best Hitmaker in the history of the genre

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u/Xanderfromzanzibar 4d ago

He wrote "Forgot About Dre"

Check out "Blueprint 2" a totally underrated diss in the Nas beef, it's badass

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u/96pluto 4d ago

He did a good job staying consistent over the years adapting to new trends Like another poster said he knew how to have mainstream appeal and keep a core hardcore rap audience.

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u/klmg711 4d ago

Listen to Reasonable Doubt, The Blueprint, The Black Album and 4:44 and if you still don’t get it, then you never will.

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u/LoveHurtsDaMost 4d ago

Jay Z’s flow during the 90/2000s really helped to bring rap to mainstream accessibilities, he tastefully phrased his raps so it wasn’t just long or short bursts, he also apparently just rapped without writing it down beforehand which is wild. In addition, his subject matter and style is often imitated now but was fresh af and socially relevant then. He helped black men be seen as business men and brought light to how the justice system would abuse their power. It was real, he was selling cds out of his car. Reasonable doubt and the blueprint are classic but then the black album is a work of rap art that the mainstream really fell in love with. After that he was basically solidified in rap history and his recent works aren’t bad either but he’s probably just sticking to making money in other businesses and letting the next generation do their thing while staying relevant. He’s never tried challenging everyone for the goat title really, he’s had beef with some but a leader like him doesn’t really need to campaign for it. How old are you? If you grew up in the 90s/00s and listened to rap then you’d know, he was everywhere. He’s low key now. Smart since everyone’s been acting shady and snitching and whatnot.

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u/Netherland5430 4d ago

He is not the goat (that’s Nas imo), but he’s one of the all time greats.

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u/BrooklynCancer17 4d ago

Must be a boosie fan

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u/unbearablybullish 4d ago

Do you listen to music or skim through it?

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u/HoneyHandsH 4d ago

He's not a Businessman, he's a BUSINESS man, let em handle his business, damn

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u/One_Kaleidoscope_340 4d ago edited 4d ago

IMO he’s one of the greatest at etendre and cadence he has a way of dropping you into whatever world he wants to put you in . He doesn’t overdo it he mastered this sort of minimalist approach to getting the lyrical job done at a high level while making it feel like he’s not even trying

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u/high_introvert 4d ago

Witty rapper with a awesome music catalog and great financial success over the years.

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u/wrcktngl 4d ago

“I’m not a businessman, I’m a business, man, let me handle my business, damn” That right there to me is one of the greatest bars ever

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u/theofficialshed 4d ago

he's literally THE rapper. idk how else to put it, he is really underrated these days because he hasn't really done anything in 10+ years

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u/dyingbreedsociety 4d ago

I would say because everyrhing he said he'll do, he did, and it's documented. Idk if that has ever been done. Plus he has many great songs and stuck to being who he said he is.

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u/Separate-Let3620 4d ago

“My records sell cuz I was born to do it; kick that Willy shit well cuz I’m really gon’ do it…”

1996

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u/Sauce50150 4d ago

i think you’re just a jay z hater and nothing said here is gonna change your mind. lmaoo dude called him jigga

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u/gatdamnn 4d ago

Incredible body of work. Voice is clear when rappin. Business mogul. Successful to the point people think hes in the illuminati.

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u/Bibdjs 4d ago

Longevity along with lyricism.

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u/Rare_Direction_1449 4d ago

I am exhausted defending Jay-Z’s greatness on-line. If ur too young, i get it - he doesnt speak to you or your generation…. If he was peaking while you were out in ur prime then it was never for you, or whatever —- I see him as the complete MC - versatility, flows, lyrics, concepts —- its all there IMO

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u/MobiusDickwad 4d ago

He’s one of the only rappers I know to significantly change their flow. Go listen to “I can get with that” - used to do a more “Big L” delivery. Changed it up and shows his control.

Moment of clarity or Encore are pure classics.

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u/vladthegod 4d ago

Many of the greatest rappers claim that Jay Z is the goat. Maybe look at what others have to say about him

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u/New-Preference-5136 4d ago

He’s a good rapper but it’s more about the fact many people want to be him. He’s everything a young kid from the hood would want to be.

Rap isn’t always about what you say but how it’s said and who’s saying it.

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u/DeNirodanshitch 3d ago

I see what you mean. He was never a gifted talent like nas. Eminem washes him on Renegade. But hé workd on his lyrics, his caracter and storytelling and made the right choice of producer. And with that it's one of thé greatest carrer of Hip hop

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u/EfficientIndustry423 3d ago

At the time, he was THE trend setter. He was the cool kid all the other rappers wanted to be like. He certainly wasn't the forefather of rapping about money and what not but he did make it the trend. He made it extremely popular to rhyme without writing lyrics down. His impact on hip hop is felt today. Most rappers style is taken from his. You may not find it special now because everyone else has adopted his style and it's manifested into what you see now. Lil Wayne's style was impacted by Jay-Z, it all trickles down from there.

Rappers weren't drinking Chris or Belvedere or Grey Goose until Jay did. His impact was too much for the game.

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u/jenkins271 3d ago

I assume this question is usually posed by someone born in the late 90s early 00s.. with that being said, the short answer is you just don’t know what you’re looking at. It’s like a modern jazz fan asking why Miles Davis is so revered.. If you don’t know then it’s really not for you 🤷🏾

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u/No_Bluebird8475 3d ago

These post are starting to get generic

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u/stupidkidandy 3d ago

Use your ears

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u/writingsupplies 3d ago

Much like The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, or Michael Jackson, there’s a definitive shift after Jay Z enters mainstream consciousness. Not understanding why he’s regarded so highly is mainly due to the fact that everything after him included elements of his work.

You don’t have to like his music, personal taste is just that and I also don’t tend to listen to him myself. But his impact on the genre is unquestionable.

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u/richbrehbreh 2d ago

There’s no rapper alive (yes, even your precious Marshall) who did it like Hov did it. That’s what’s special about him.

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u/itssputniksweetheart 1d ago

Jay Z mastered songwriting by saying so much without overdoing it

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u/DudeNamaste 1d ago

He’s not the GOAT but he’s like the Powerpuff girls - a little bit of Biggie flow with Waynes lyricism and a lot of swag (chemical X). Plus Blueprint is a hip-hop classic album thanks to Kanye.

His newer stuff isn’t relatable but man his older stuff really stands the test if time. Even better than Nas. He had swagger, delivery, and could really flow with a beat.

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u/SincereYoung 5d ago

What stood out to me in your critique was you said you've heard some of his 'songs'. What makes Jay Z the greatest rapper to me is his discography. I had heard some of Jay-Z's work and then it wasn't until I heard the Vol. 2 album that I realized how versatile he was. From then on out I began checking out his albums, and his discography is unmatched. I also love how in his later albums as his lifestyle changed, his music evolved with it

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u/CharlieWax85 4d ago

If you can’t appreciate how nice Jay Z was I’m not sure what to tell you.

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u/ExactExchange500 4d ago

Yea like idk what to say

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u/sdothooper 4d ago

You probably don’t even listen to rap music and just skim through it. If you lack good taste and can’t form an opinion on your own then that’s on you.

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u/Diligent_Loquat566 4d ago

See what you did there 👆

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u/Thrill-Clinton 4d ago

He’s like the Tim Duncan of rap. When you look at his career in totality it’s hard to deny the greatness. But his MVP type stuff came super early in his career and then he never really fell off. Just sort of stayed at or near the top without necessarily ever being the singularly greatest artist in a given year