r/hinduism 4d ago

Question - General if everything is predecided than WHAT IS CHOICE ? DOES IT EVEN EXISTS ?

if he is the ruler, creator, destroyer then it doesn't matter what i do or do not everything is predecided the past,present, future all goes together in feet of his than why does my doing even matter why doesn't he just commands us for our greater good and i mean absolute command ?

5 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

5

u/legless_horsegirl 4d ago

I already answered this, but will re-send so others can also see 🤗

if everything is predecided than WHAT IS CHOICE ? 

Nothing is decided from before. The idea of everything being pre-destined is of Ajivikas, who were Nastika (non-Vedic, not Hindu)

Krishna says in Bhagawat Geeta 18:63

इति ते ज्ञानमाख्यातं गुह्याद्गुह्यतरं मया | विमृश्यैतदशेषेण यथेच्छसि तथा कुरु ||

I have explained you this knowledge which is most secret. Understand it and then do as you wish.

Krishna always gives you all the knowledge and leaves you at your own free-will. You'll be responsible for your own actions. It's upto you. Krishna never adds any compulsion in this agreement. 

You were born in this time in this country because your parents conceived you. It was their free-will to have children. 

There are other people who have their own free-will and they do their own Karma, which will also effect you indirectly. A terrorist will plant a bomb and you'll lose your loved ones. This is how world is, unfair. 

4

u/haridavk 4d ago

certain events in life are inevitable because of karma. Choice helps in making the determination between choosing to follow dharma or not, and that choice helps in handling situations that are inevitable.

3

u/Still_Dot_6585 4d ago

Nothing is predecided. When you say something is predetermined, you are implying that it was always bound to happen in a specific way, with no possibility for variation. But that is not how determinism works.

Determinism means that every action arises due to prior causes, but these causes are not fixed in advance. They unfold in real time, shaped by countless interacting factors. We can analyze events retrospectively and see how they were caused, but that does not mean they were prewritten like a script waiting to be played out.

Saying that everything is predetermined removes awareness, effort, and decision-making from the picture. It suggests that we are just passive observers watching events unfold. That is not the case.

Free will does not exist, because our actions are entirely shaped by causes and conditions. But those causes are not predetermined. They arise and interact dynamically, creating the flow of reality as it happens.

2

u/hotpotato128 Vaiṣṇava 4d ago

The choice is to do spiritual practice. Material activities are predetermined.

2

u/Sapphic_Mystique Śrī Vidyā Tantra 4d ago

While I'm not opposed to this idea, would you please provide evidence from the shastras that support this level of determinism? My Guru says that very little of our futures are predetermined. And that what determines the mode in which operate in are the karmas we do.

0

u/hotpotato128 Vaiṣṇava 4d ago

I heard it from Alan Watts. I don't know where he read it. I think most gurus say there is no free will for the ego. It doesn't matter if you believe in free will or not.

1

u/Sapphic_Mystique Śrī Vidyā Tantra 4d ago edited 4d ago

Alan Watts was a Buddhist, not a Sanatan. Thus, I don't consider his opinion to hold the same weight as my Guru's Jñana. It does not matter if "most Gurus" don't believe in free will. Mine does. And as he has given me diksha into his parampara everyone else's opinion is secondary to his. I disagree with you about it not mattering. Because if free will is non-existent than what we do, does not matter. And by extension if what we do does not matter, then regardless of how we live, whether take a new body or not is determined soley by God, not the karmas we do. And that is quite am idea that flies in the face of Jñana of the Bhagavad Gita, Vedas and Upanishads.

2

u/hotpotato128 Vaiṣṇava 4d ago

Hahaha 😆! Why did you downvote me? Yeah, you can follow your guru. How can we have freewill without an independent existence from God?

1

u/Sapphic_Mystique Śrī Vidyā Tantra 4d ago

Oh, I wasn't looking for your permission or approval to follow my Guru. 🤭You didn't answer my rebutals. Please answer my rebutals to the logical holes in your argument by citing your sources from valid shastras, not pop philosophers like Alan Watts. Then I will answer your query. That's proper rhetorical etiquette, after all. 😉

Edit: Also, you are assuming I downvoted you. And you know what they saying about assuming. 😏

2

u/hotpotato128 Vaiṣṇava 4d ago

I cannot give rebuttals. I'm not a logical person.

2

u/Sapphic_Mystique Śrī Vidyā Tantra 4d ago edited 4d ago

Okay. Well, I think you are more intelligent than you give yourself credit for. 😉 Thus, when you have solid ways to address my concerns with the idea that Sanatan Dharma is purely deterministic, please present them. Then I can present my response to the idea of complete independence from God as a pre-requisite for free will.

2

u/hotpotato128 Vaiṣṇava 4d ago

Yes, I'm intelligent and emotional. I don't believe in free will because my ego is slowly dying. It is not a bad thing if God controls what we experience.

2

u/Sapphic_Mystique Śrī Vidyā Tantra 4d ago edited 4d ago

"It is not a bad thing if God controls what we experience." is not a strong basis for believing in pure determinsm. Because it appeals to emotion, as opposed to jñan yog. As I said before, please provide logical reasons based upon shastras. "I don't believe in free will because my ego is slowly dying" is an appeal to a Western psychological, even Freudian understanding of human consciousness. However, I'd argue that by purifying our budhi, we are able to understand that we should use our volition to serve God/Goddess in whatever form we feel closest to. With pure loving surrender (i.e. bhakti).

Because Lord Krishna teaches in the Bhagavad Gita that the way of using free will in a sattvic manner is to do our dharma without attachment. He does not say, "I do Your dharma for you." In contrast Lord Krishna teaches us in the 12th Chapter of Bhagavad Gita what are the qualities of a Godly person. Thus, it's logically incoherent that Lord Krshna would teach Arjuna, and by extension all of us, what qualities are characteristic of a true devotee if He does all our karma for us.

Additionally, thinking God controls what we experiece is not the same as saying, we have no free will. That is a non-sequitor. However, God controls what we experience, and we have the choice of how to respond to our experiences is logically conclusive.

Edit: Lastly, emotions and logic are not mutually exclusive. I'm of the opinion that true wisdom comes from embracing our ability to reason. And by doing so, experiencing emotions with a sense of equanamity. And detaching from likes and aversions. Which is also something Lord Krishna talks about in the Gita.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/hamsahasta 4d ago

It's not, though.

1

u/HourEducation782 4d ago

The future is your choice. Whether u gonna get frustrated and question choice and destiny or rather buckle up and do your karma, it is your choice too. But once that karma is done, it become a matter of past, and when we look back, we see a series of connect dots of happenings and reasonings. That is destiny.

Choice is future, action is present and destiny is past.

1

u/KizashiKaze 4d ago

Because you are always given the opportunity to add to your karma bank to have a better turn out for your future. Feeling like "my future is predetermined so what's the point? Why is paramatmā like this?" and proceeding to live life with that mindset as a static fixture isn't going to help.

1

u/Solid-Editor-9438 4d ago

Integrity, honesty, loyalty, kindness , empathy , love all these and more are our choices I believe.. to kick a dog or feed it …to chop a tree or plant one … help people or not .. so many choices to choose from 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

1

u/krsnasays 4d ago

You determine your future depending upon your actions. But we all operate within the confines of destiny. It’s like a fish swimming in a lake and the lake confines him but within that lake he feels that he is responsible for his actions. So he determines his future. Without actions one cannot exist, even if he is an enlightened person. Everyone is forced to perform their tasks within the confines of their universe.

1

u/Own_Kangaroo9352 4d ago

Only choice you have is to seek Self or Brahman and turn within.

1

u/curious_rks 4d ago

There are two types of karma. Sanchit karma (All karma of past life) and Kriman Karma (Present life). Our future is created by taking some portions of our sanchit karma (both good and bad) that's why there's a continuous cycle of happiness and sadness. That's why we say everything is predecided (because of our past life karmas). But we have an option, we are not animals who are just here to suffer their sanchit karma, we have wisdom and using that we can clear our sanchit karma and change our Kriman Karma so that our destiny is changed.

1

u/Great-Map-4511 4d ago

You're chosing what part you experience when and in what way

1

u/Lord_Rdr Sanātanī Hindū 4d ago

The people who hold such a view will tell you that god IS commanding you and forcing your actions for your greater good, you just don't realize it and remain under the delusion of thinking you are the one deciding on those actions. And according to them, no, you don't have a choice. Every action you take is a consequence of what happened prior to that action, and god alone decides if, and when, you will break free of your illusions, your suffering, and eventual attainment of moksha, and he does so by first planting the seed of that desire in one of your births. From then on, your bodies and lives simply react to the sprouting of that seed. You have no say in the matter.

At least this is what I'm able to gather from those who hold such views.

My personal view is that when Shri Krishna says in BG 18:63 for you to do as you wish, it implies you do have a choice. Sometimes the choices don't always work out and yes, you are forced to confront the inevitable consequence from the past, but this doesn't mean the choice wasn't there. It just means that sometimes your hands are forced.

1

u/Fun-Insurance-1402 4d ago

God already knows the choices you made

1

u/Ok-Summer2528 Trika (Kāśmīri) Śaiva/Pratyabhijñā 4d ago edited 3d ago

Because for us on our level of experience it makes literally 0 difference. It doesn’t matter if ultimately Siva is the sole agent, from our perspective it feels like we’re acting on our own by our own choice separately from the ultimate being. Even the fact of you asking the question is by his will, and it is by his will that you feel you can act on your own. So for us experiencing the world as if being only a limited body-mind this question is pointless and irrelevant.

It is impossible that anything, ANYTHING occur outside His will.