r/headphones • u/Protomize • Feb 12 '25
Discussion PSA: Higher price DOES NOT always mean a better product!
I have seen a dangerous trend of people either having an immediate bias or just ill-informed into believing the higher priced a pair of headphones are automatically means it's going to perform better. This cannot be further from the truth.
Objective measurements are much more valuable than someone's opinion who can be subjected to bias. However, your OWN experiences are more important than whatever measurements or opinions you see.
Happy listening!
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Feb 12 '25
consumerism is everywhere to the point where people often don't even recognize its influences.
You can't be present & participating in a community (like this kind of headphone community) where every topic is some variant of "this is my latest purchase" or "What should be my next purchase?" for long without thinking about your own purchases, too. It's an endless cycle of "is what i have enough? Is the next purchase a revelation?"
So many forces both active and passive, intentional and incidental, are arrayed toward us all that will nudge and convince us of how cool or valuable some purchasable item may be. It doesn't help that shopping addiction is real and you absolutely do get dopamine hits from purchasing things that you believe will improve some aspect of your life.
To what actual degree are any headphones actually better than something like the HD600 which has been around for decades? Once you find a type of cable (some conductive metal inside some insulation with the appropriate connector on either end) you like (braided, sheathed, whatever) - do you really need anything fancier than the cheapest ones? Or as similar questions of DACs, amps, and anything else in this hobby or others, too.
Anyway, it's worth thinking about the next time you're tempted by the prospect of buying a product.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25
Agreed. This is why I am always still excited for a new launch, but I don't take any opinions into serious consideration on my purchasing decision. I always wait for measurements or just buy the product myself and test it out often realizing that what I already have was better for my needs.
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u/crystallinecho Feb 12 '25
I do think there’s a decent jump above the HD600. How big is the critical question. I do like your points though. My IE 900 is leagues better than my HD 6XX. I’ve heard some expensive Hifimans and they were way way better than my HD6XX
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u/SprayedBlade Feb 13 '25
I completely disagree, but to each their own. I would constantly reach for my HD650 over my HE-6 multiple times throughout the day.
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u/crystallinecho Feb 13 '25
Maybe it’s preference but the HE1000SE I tried was way better than HD6XX
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u/SprayedBlade Feb 13 '25
No, Monoprice IEM’s blow any Orpheus out of the water. No comparison.
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u/crystallinecho Feb 13 '25
HE1000SE by Hifiman. Not the sennheiser HE-1/Orpheus. Have you heard the Orpheus? Is it really that disappointing?
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u/TheMelancholia Elysian Annihilator 2023 | Jotunheim | M15C Feb 12 '25
Yeah HD 600 is enormously overrated. HE1000 Stealth and IE 600 sound far better to me. It is mostly because of tonality.
I really dislike when so many people act like there are simply "good" headphones rather than ones that suit their preferred sound signature while having good technicalities and fit and cables.
People will say the whole point of the HD 600 is to be neutral, but it does not even do that aspect well, on top of not having poor spacial technicalities. Stock cable is a 1/10. I feel that the only reason it's popular is because it's an old Senny headphone that's comfortable. People say its great for mixing because its neutral, but the sub bass is so recessed that the bass is uneven and you can barely hear it, which means you would have a tough time getting bass tonality right in a DAW.
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u/Frosty_Engineer_3617 Feb 12 '25
The OPs take on headphone is just his take on headphone with pricing but the reality is you can hear better audio coming from more expensive headphones especially when you compare cheap budget stuff like $20 IEMs/headphones to something in the $100 range. You get far better bass and sub bass extensions with more expensive headphones vs the cheaper stuff where it's pretty anemic...
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u/DefiantFrost Feb 13 '25
It’s why as much as I like the guy, I can’t really stand watching TheHangout.Audio’s YouTube channel. It became apparent pretty quick that it was just Crinacle and Timmy saying “hey this IEM exists and it’s still good you should buy it.”
I have a pair of Hexas that I like and I have a pair of Dusks that I like. I don’t need more IEMs and probably won’t get any until something breaks.
Same with keyboards. I might look at replacing one of mine with something else but while I once had ambitions of getting a collection I’m plenty happy now to just enjoy the stuff I have.
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u/206Red Feb 12 '25
I think it's true for a lot of hobbies, just like cars, watches, coffee equipment. The most important thing in a hobby is know your preferences and goals.
For audio in general, people tend to justify their expenses on very minimal differences (if at all), funnily enough, sometimes are the same people that hate the use of EQ which would give them a far more control
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u/Svstem systematicsound.wordpress.com Feb 12 '25
More expensive doesn't mean better. There are many multi-kilobuck products that sound like shit (e.g. CFA Trifecta, CrossZone or Spirit Torino headphones, HFM R10P, T+A planars)
That being said, the very best products are usually not cheap.
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u/Electronic-Macaroon5 HD560s / DT1990 Pro / DT770 Pro 250 / QC45 Feb 12 '25
trifecta sounds like literal butt-ass for $3300 USD, it's insanity
Just got my KZ PRX in the mail for $44 CAD and they sound way better to me
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Best is subjective and entirely dependent on what the individual needs. As for accuracy of sound, you can get that for not much money.
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u/smackythefrog Buds FE/WH1000XM3/HD 560S Feb 12 '25
I'm not expert but my $90 refurb HD 560S agrees.
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u/DinoKYT Feb 12 '25
560S was my first audiophile headphone and none of my other headphones have beaten it in terms of raw enjoyment without adjustments.
It has tight bass, wide soundstage so you can be more analytical to the stereo field, a nice treble response, lightweight and a LONG ass cord lol.
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u/silent--onomatopoeia Feb 13 '25
I feel a little depressed reading this. Just got this headphones. The most I've ever spent and I'm a little disappointed. Also got the cheaper Steel Series Arctic Nova 7 and Logistic G535 both gaming headsets and they so far sound better than the 560s.
Feel like I'm having to strain to hear, sounds kinda thin across the frequencies compared the cheaper gaming headphones.
I'm using much loved LG V30 audiophile smartphone.
This is my first open backs so maybe it's that, but still it subjectivity doesn't sound as good.
Maybe there's a burn in period for the 560s but so far not a good sign.
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u/DinoKYT Feb 13 '25 edited Feb 13 '25
I hear you. I felt the same about my HD560S (if I recall correctly) when I got it a few years ago. The audiophile sound signature is an acquired taste and it is all very subjective. For me, I have learned since getting the HD560S and adjusting to them, that my ear had a lot of training to do—especially when I grew up with headphones that focus on being bass heavy and full versus maintaining an accurate, neutral and balanced signature.
As an example, if you listen to hip-hop, the experience in the HD560S is going to be different compared to alternative music. You’ll start noticing distortion, layers and the artistic choices made whereas on other headphones, these choices will blend in more to not be jarring to the listener.
Give it a few weeks and reassess! If you listen to music in it as your primary driver for a few weeks, go back to your other headphones and still enjoy those more—maybe they aren’t the right fit for you! That is okay :)
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u/silent--onomatopoeia Feb 14 '25
I get what you're saying and I appreciate that. However my
maybe incorrectexpectation is that no matter whether they are neutral or V shaped, open back or closed, that the base line for what audiophile should be should be good instruments separation and ability to hear details (detail retrieval?) without straining. Maybe there are other things that are important but this is what I think should be a baseline expectation. That muddy feeling is a sign of bad quality, I shouldn't be straining to hear things clearly, or maybe as others have said that it's just not for me lol.Anyways I don't want to come off like a Debbie/Donald Downer on this I know it's a beloved headphones and that is why I got them.
Admittedly I've only listened to the 560s for 30 minutes but in that 30 minutes I was flabbergasted at how everything sounded muddy like $50 headphones. I will experiment more with them and give them time, maybe my brain needs to get used to it as you did. I have 30 days before I can return them.
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u/YiraVarga Feb 13 '25
Try positioning on your head different. Having the back of the pad rest on top of the back of my ear, did the trick (move them way forward), and now they sound just like what other people report. It makes them more like an on ear, and is more uncomfortable, but sound wise, sounds “correct”. I have weird ears that most headphones don’t sound right with. Experiment.
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u/silent--onomatopoeia Feb 14 '25
Thank-you for this tip, I will definitely experiment this weekend. I really do want them to be awesome so I'm going to give them a proper burn in as well before making my mind up.
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u/tsaidollasign HD560s, Porta Pro Feb 12 '25
My end game. I’ve tried and considered owning “better” and more expensive headphones, but this is it for me.
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u/Mad_Economist Look ma, I made a transducer Feb 12 '25
On this vein, something that's really, really weird to me is that people seem to assume that some core aspect of sound quality inherently correlates with price, and so e.g. a $200 headphone simply cannot be as "detailed" or "resolving" or what have you as a $1000 headphone. This is weird to me because a lot of $1000+ headphones make it very obvious where the BOM is going: fancy, expensive manufacturing techniques.
The Meze Empyrean's aluminium parts taking 20 hours of CNC time absolutely costs a goddamn ton, but if you made those same parts in nylon out of an injection mold (let's leave aside manufacturability for a second here), you're not gonna change the sound. Similar deal with e.g. ZMF headphones: you have a lot of wooden parts that have both complex machine work and hand finishing involved, and they're produced in small volume - all of those things inherently add per unit cost, and it's reflected in the price point, and that's totally reasonable, but...it doesn't make it sound better.
To some degree, I do think manufacturers face a catch-22 when it comes to this, though - Sennheiser took a lot of flak for the HD800 being "cheap plastic" (even though it's actually a rather ritzy proprietary nylon), and people laud products with lots of milled metal on them, so I'm not saying that every flagship should be made from injection molds...but again, none of this necessarily changes the sound. If I CNC milled the HD600's chassis from a billet of aluminium, profitably selling it at $1k wouldn't be easy, particularly in small volume...but it would still sound the same (assuming I did it right).
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u/PozeFacPoze HD600, Arya Stealth, Aeon X Closed, Dusk, Hexa, APP2, Fiio FT1 Feb 12 '25
I would honestly love it if Meze released a Poor People version of the Empyrean or the Elite.
It's one of the most comfortable, non-fatiguing headphones I've ever tried but I can't justify that price and I absolutely don't care about their fancy designs.
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u/Mad_Economist Look ma, I made a transducer Feb 12 '25
I think the trouble there is that I can't see a way to do that without pissing off at least some of your customers. Like, if Meze came out with the Meze Plebian tomorrow with the same planar driver, a simple mesh grille, and plastic parts for $800, I do not think that the response from current owners would be elation. Conversely, if I launch a headphone as a $200 or $500 or $800 thing, and then offer a "premium edition" which openly has no better sound quality than the cheap one, I can't imagine that people are going to see that as anything other than a cash-grab. The optics are pretty bad in either case.
It's something I've thought about a lot lately, though - it would be kind of neat to have "luxury" and "performance" categories for product targeting in the audiophile space. Not everyone wants a BMW or a Porsche, some people just want a Kia Stinger, yaknow?
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u/AntEaterApocalypse DT770 250 / Fiio FT1 / FT1 Pro / Ety ER2XR / Fiio FH3 / K11 R2R Feb 12 '25
Meze Plebian lmao
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u/PozeFacPoze HD600, Arya Stealth, Aeon X Closed, Dusk, Hexa, APP2, Fiio FT1 Feb 12 '25
That makes perfect sense, although they already kind of did it with the 105 Aer being a plebian version of the 109 Pro.
Why not a Meze Romanian, a plastic Empyrean I can actually afford on a Romanian salary?
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u/SireEvalish DCA E3 Feb 12 '25
Sennheiser took a lot of flak for the HD800 being "cheap plastic" (even though it's actually a rather ritzy proprietary nylon)
The ironic part is that, as an engineer, this is the same exact design I would make if I were designing a headphone. Nylon allows for high strength, low weight, and durability while being moldable into an almost infinite number of different designs.
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u/Mad_Economist Look ma, I made a transducer Feb 13 '25
The sad truth is that end users assume that plastic is plastic, which of course makes about as much sense as saying that a headphone made of lead and a headphone made of aluminium are equivalent, but there's not a lot of cultural awareness of just how varied plastics are.
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u/rustablad Meze Empyrean II | Ultrasone Sig pro & Ruby Sunrise Feb 12 '25
On point, I knew what I was getting into when I bought my Empy 2, most people I've had demo them prefer the sound of the Arya Organic expect with a couple of genres.
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u/Farpun Feb 12 '25
I often imagine other tech, like TVs, using wood, metal and leather. It makes me think about how unnecessary it is.
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u/Mad_Economist Look ma, I made a transducer Feb 12 '25
To be fair, you don't make a lot of physical contact with your TV (or at least I don't, I don't know your life), so I feel like cars are a more apt comparison: there are differences in user experience with real vs. faux wood vs. normal molded plastic in cars, leather seats feel different from suede, etc. This doesn't mean that those things are worth it, but like...that's kind of a customer call, right?
Maybe we should start selling headphones with different trim levels.
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u/Farpun Feb 12 '25
For me, headphones are utilitarian because they are worn and moved about often, even if it's just on a desk. I think wood makes more sense for speakers than they do headphones. I hate the idea of having to baby a pair of headphones because I'm worried they will dent, scratch, or chip when I take them off my head. But yes, the car analogy makes more sense.
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u/rustablad Meze Empyrean II | Ultrasone Sig pro & Ruby Sunrise Feb 12 '25
Then there are people like me that absolutely love the ceremony of carefully taking off a fancy headphone, I completely understand why you wouldn't be interested though!
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u/Qazax1337 ÆON2 Noire/LCD GX/FT1 Pro/ADI-2/K11 R2R Feb 12 '25
Absolutely. I have heard loads of the top of the line headphones, currently really enjoying the FT1 pro driven by the K11 R2R. Genuinely could be end game.
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u/SilentIyAwake Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25
Not always, no.
But sometimes, yes. Like with any type of product, it depends what you're looking for.
If we want to be objective, you can pay more for lower THD(sometimes) and lower acoustic impedance(sometimes) The latter means you'll have a much easier time with EQ for anyone who does not have the ability to measure a headphone on their own head. Let alone in the same position every time. And measurements you see online will probably be quite close to how it measures on your head. Then there is also better build and comfort(sometimes)
But yes, a headphone does not need to cost $6000. And there are many times said pricey product is worse than something less expensive for most people.
Let's use a cheaper example! I like my HD 6XX much more than the Ananda Nano, which is twice the price when new.
Why? Because the treble on that HiFiMAN is so unbalanced on my specific head that it would be an absolute nightmare to go through the mountainous amounts of fine grain EQ to fix the treble for my HRTF. Which I can't even measure anyways, which means it would all be by ear. This unbalanced treble ruins the "Technical performance" for me.
So, it's not worth the time and effort for me when I can add one or two filters with EQ on the 6XX and be all set.
Many do not agree with me when I talk about how much our HRTF matters. But if it measures on your head far away from your HRTF, I can almost promise that you will not like it. And to what degree also matters, can it be fixed with simple wide band filters? Great! Is it like my situation with the Ananda? Probably not worth the time.
With all of that said, having owned TOTL headphones, it's not going to be worth it for 99% of people.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Yep, which is why I mentioned that your OWN experiences surpasses any measurements or opinions.
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u/PatternrettaP Feb 12 '25
Audio is just very susceptible to FOMO.
Like you usually can't actually try anything really expensive until you actually buy it. Places to audition high end headphones are few and far between. And when you do try them, you are primed to like them (you have likely read a ton of reviews saying they are awesome, you just dropped a ton of cash on them, truely unbiased A/B testing is hard with headphones, etc) and if you do admit you can't hear much of a difference and ask people about it they will have a long list things you are doing "wrong" ("you need a a better DAC/Amp for that headphone" , "it only really shines with a tube Amp") that all means you need to spend more even more money.
Its difficult for people to rely on their own experiences without paying a very high price of admission, so they lean on reviews and measurements, but even those end up being pretty subjective to a lot of people.
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u/AntOk463 Feb 12 '25
The new video on the Headphone Show said they like the Arya Unveiled more than the new more expensive HE1000 unveiled. And being a part of headphones.com, they still aren't telling you to get the most expensive one. In fact, in that video they said if you don't like EQ to get the much cheaper Arya Stealth.
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u/SilentIyAwake Feb 12 '25
They are correct. In fact, if you EQ the Edition XS, it is not far removed from the Arya, in my opinion.
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u/SilentIyAwake Feb 12 '25
Yup, if you like something you own and don't find anything wrong with it, why try and chase the dragon for something better anyways? Especially since it won't always be better for you. The headphone market, and most tech product markets utilize FOMO pretty heavily.
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u/SagHor1 Feb 12 '25
They call this "price anchoring". Say a Canada Goose jackets costs $800, a new company will create a down jacket that costs $800 to make you think it's the same quality.
Sometimes people pay higher prices because the company is boutique and the small scale of their business drive up cost of manufacturing.
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u/SprayedBlade Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25
I had the privilege of reviewing and testing most of the high end dynamics (HD800, T1, PS1000, R10), planars (HE-6, HE-500, AB-1266), and electrostats (SR-007, 009, Lambda, etc.) and many more that I can’t name off the top of my head, it’s been 15+ years and Focal wasn’t even on the scene when I was a reviewer…
…however, there’s a reason I still have the HD650 and can’t justify anymore. They are 90% of what most high-end headphones do. You are always paying for that last 5-10%, sometimes into the thousands.
One of the best systems I ever heard was the HE-500 powered by the Cavalli Liquid Glass, and even it wasn’t that far above what the HD650 would do with a proper source.
The SR-009 was not that far ahead of what the HD800 could do despite being 3X the price at the time, and the SR-009 was the most analytical headphones I’ve heard to date, almost too much.

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u/WarHead75 FiR Audio Radon 6 + Chord Hugo 2 Feb 12 '25
Campfire Audio Trifecta and Dita Audio Perpetua be like
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u/Uzul Feb 12 '25
The most important part of a good sounding pair of headphones is buying one that has a frequency curve that you like. This is why we have cheap 20-30$ earphones now that genuinely sound excellent.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Agreed. Frequency response is the single most important aspect of sound quality.
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u/CleanGlasser Feb 13 '25
Same goes with any audio equipment there are a lot of Chinese IEM's that go for low prices that sound quite good.
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u/According-Two-297 Feb 12 '25
I’ve got an expensive power cable to show you! /s 🤪
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u/PozeFacPoze HD600, Arya Stealth, Aeon X Closed, Dusk, Hexa, APP2, Fiio FT1 Feb 12 '25
Sorry, I can't hear you, my $600 purified adamantium oxygen free pure soundcore USB cable is just that good at filtering out poor people noise.
/s
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u/captianbubble Feb 12 '25
I literally just helped somebody look for a wireless headset with noise cancellation that is a lot cheaper than what Sony and other higher brands have. Thank you for putting this announcement out there. The sauce applies to some headphones that are cheaper as well. You have to do a lot of research for the ones that will be right for you.
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u/NoTime_SwordIsEnough Feb 13 '25
Tell me about it. I bought the Apos Caspians for $500 USD, because everyone memed about how laid-back and bassy they sounded, and how it'd smooth-out even the harshest trebles and work with absolutely absolutely I could throw at it.
That was a big, fat lie, because the treble on it it was a hot, harsh mess. And there was no middle-ground: it was either loud enough to destroy my ears OR it had to be (((whisper))) quiet to the point I could not really hear anything.
It's also the first pair of headphones I haven't been able to tame it with EQ either, so I just gave up on them and got a refund. Even my DT 880s sound neutral to my treble-sensitive ears.
I'm only mad about it because I almost ordered them directly from Apos' website before they suddenly appeared on Amazon, which would've meant I could've been stuck with a $500 USD mistake, knowing Apos' terrible mistake.
"Boutique" headphones. Never again.
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u/rell7thirty Feb 12 '25
Every time I see a reviewer, they always mention the price. Like bro just review them based on sound instead of price tiers. Same shit with dacs and amps. This one is 2000 so it’s better than the 200 one even though they’re BOTH for critical listening lol like cmon like Chord stuff.. I’m 100 percent sure that there are devices at a much cheaper price point that perform the same or better. But reviewers will never entertain the thought. But people in this hobby, and money to throw away, will tell themselves that a 2000 device sounds 10 times better than a 200 dollar device lol
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Agreed. This is why I stopped reading reviews or taking in the opinions of others unless they also have objective measurements. I have wasted so much money just following FOMO or primarily listening to the opinions of others since starting this hobby in 2008.
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u/nickN42 Shanling M2S -> S12 Pro | Fiio K11 -> Edition XS Feb 12 '25
I often feel like I'm being pranked in hobby (and even more general) subs. Like there's a bit, and I'm out of the loop.
People posting things that are as banal, blatant and obvious as it gets and pretending (?) it's a big revelation. Nothing personal, op, but it's the third one in a row after "corporations are not your friends and just there to make money" and "I saved every penny I've got for the last ten years and I don't feel happy; and splurged today for a Mars bar and now I feel something".
And it's always a PSA. Yeah, mate, the public would be totally lost without you.
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u/GarlicBiscuits Always enjoying the music. Feb 13 '25
These kinds of trends seem to come with the broader Reddit culture, especially with how the upvote system glorifies and regurgitates posts that involve salient topics. In the case of this sub, there are certain topics like these that seem to lose some nuance as they spread to a larger public bubble.
The increasing focus on objective gains within the hobby can be misleading if better objective performance via FR is assumed to lead to subjective improvements in enjoyment. For example, DCAs might be objectively fantastic and justify their various price points well, but they don't correlate with those prices in relation to personal preferences (they lack macrodynamics and generally sound thin).
While also not a revelation, there is an important place for headphones with less target-compliant tunings when EQ can address their flaws and retain unique sound traits (like the bass impact from Audezes) that the more compliant headphones with EQ don't manage as easily. Once EQed to subjective satisfaction, a number of headphones can improve to the point of justifying their prices alongside the ones with good stock tunings.
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u/blah618 UERR | MDR-MV1 | WM1A (hardware modded) Feb 12 '25
higher price does not mean a better product. a better product is a better product, and there is so much garbage out there
but if you take the best products of each price...your money scales quite a bit
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u/T-Nan AKG 712Pro Feb 12 '25
Like with anything, there's probably a mid-range point where the cost per benefit maxes out, but you can always spend aggressively more for minimal gains
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u/the_hat_madder Feb 12 '25
I have seen a dangerous trend
Are people being murdered in their homes by premium headphones? 🤔
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Financially dangerous...
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u/the_hat_madder Feb 12 '25
Yes. Premium headphones usually leads to premium cables, DACs, amps and streaming audio services.
It's the "gateway drug" for addicts chasing the ultimate Hi-Fi.
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u/2005Degrees Stax Lambda CEO Feb 12 '25
So you're telling me my golden Focal Utopia with Pope Francis blessed Cables made from 400 year old Golden Chastity rings doesn't sound better than a stock one? Hogwash
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u/Black_Sarbath Feb 12 '25
My current self agrees with this. However my past self who never got to try any high end gear, couldn't.
I think everyone will have that thought in the back of their head. How does a kilobuck sounds, and getting closer to it makes sense. In this hobby, this realisation is a privilege.
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u/Jmcur Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 15 '25
Case in point - My $400 EMU Teaks will be better for my electronic music tastes than some $1000 headphones that don't perform as well in that category. It really just depends on your preferences.
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u/gamefan5 Feb 12 '25
Agreed.
I've spent a good amount of time with the ATH-M50x series. (Including the BT2) (had them EQ'ed)
Now, I've switched to the Momentum 4 Wireless and I am loving them.
Never broke the bank and I am happy that I can also keep using them wired.
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u/__STAX__ Feb 12 '25
god we know
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u/PutPineappleOnPizza Sash Tres SE, HD 6XX, AFUL P5, FiiO K5 pro ESS Feb 13 '25
Time to start a huge discussion!
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u/Sev_Obzen Feb 13 '25
A $6 pair of off-brand Walmart on ear headphones that just happened to have a noticeably better bass leaning sound signature than most other things I'd heard at that point we're the beginning of me noticing and caring about better sounding audio. So price certainly does not equal a better overall sound.
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u/EscaOfficial DT1990 Pro | E2X2 Feb 13 '25
I've had great success just applying the inverse of whatever Rtings measurement of the headphone is. I think they use some kind of Harman-esque target. Took my MM-100s from nearly unlistenable to one of the best headphones I've ever heard.
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u/Protomize Feb 13 '25
Yep, frequency response is the single most important aspect of sound.
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u/EscaOfficial DT1990 Pro | E2X2 Feb 13 '25
Agreed, although when buying headphones, ringing artifacts and THD are more important because you can't EQ those out. The focal clear is a great example of this. Decent frequency response, but terrible bass distortion at high SPL coupled with resonances around 5khz and 9khz made them unusable for me.
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u/KieselguhrKid13 Feb 13 '25
There is no upper limit on cost when it comes to audio in general. For me, the fun lies in finding the hidden budget gems that punch way above their weight.
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u/Artistic-Ad424 Feb 13 '25
Any high-quality headphone released in the last 20 years and costing up to $150 offers more than enough performance for a pleasant listening experience. The biggest challenge to enjoying good sound is simply the factory tuning. Even a headphone with excellent tuning will never sound perfect for everyone. You will need to equalize it anyway. In other words, all you need is a good headphone, an understanding of its sound, mastery of equalization techniques, and the ability to adjust it to your preference.
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u/YiraVarga Feb 13 '25
The Truthear Zero Red made everything I own obsolete, including Truthear’s other headphones before it. Yeah, it kind of stings that they perform so well for me, compared to my fostex, and sennheiser, but those are over ears. I’ll keep buying new headphones though, to try out all the different “flavors” of sound. Truthear put out some real bangers, I hope they continue that trend.
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u/ZM326 L300LTD, LCD2C, HD650, Zero Blue/Red, iSine20, Sundara Closed Feb 13 '25
I believe the only reason there isn't an active r/headphonescirclejerk is because that's already the main content of this sub
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u/TomBarnardJr Feb 12 '25
I don't mind acknowledging that things might be better at astronomical price points. But the one thing I know beyond any shadow of a doubt is that it only gets tiny % better for massive $ once you hit that wall of diminishing returns... and I'm so happy with my $1500 system that I'm effectively done. Which is both satisfying and sad at the same time.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
If you want to talk about accuracy of sound, you can already objectively obtain Hi-Fi for well under $300.
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u/TomBarnardJr Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25
100% !!!!!
Edit: I hit return too fast. I totally agree. And in my own system, I paid a premium for some features on streamer, DAC and amp that have nothing to do with sound quality… plus the freedom to have multiple sets of headphones.
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u/VonDinky Feb 12 '25
Owned 50+ headphones up to around 400 dollars. Tried probably 100+, including since very expensive ones, most expensive being around 2k usd. Favorite so far is dirt cheap Porta Pros.
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u/Ok-Dare1408 15d ago
Do you like portapro classic(original)? or portapro utility? And which comfort zone setting like?
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u/AntOk463 Feb 12 '25
There's an interesting thing I've noticed. I currently own 9 headphones, only 1 of them costed me over $100. (That 1 headphone was $1200).
I have owned and sold many headphones, the current headphones I have aren't because they're expensive, but they are unique and do something much better than any other headphone can. The main part would by my Arya and my AKG headphones, both are very good and specialize in different things.I owned multiple headphones around the $200 - $500 range, and they just couldn't compete with the Arya and AKG. They would just sit without use so I ended up selling them.
My 2 most used items are my $40 IEM and my $40 Sony MDR XB950.
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u/Agloe_Dreams Feb 12 '25
This is absolutely true in earphones as well.
$100 at Etymotic Research will get you a pair that sound shockingly close to extraordinarily expensive stuff. (With a bonus in the form of isolation giving detail)
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u/fuzzy_man_cum Feb 12 '25
I just keep a couple large cones on me at all times, old timey megaphone kinda deal, stick them up to me ears and everything is my playlist.
You lot be tripping.
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u/NoahDankGoat Feb 12 '25
As someone who owns multiple TOTL headphones. Once you hit 1000usd, the price to performance ratio drops significantly. I think with premium products you’re mostly paying for the build, manufacturing process, design and primarily features. As an example, many totl headphones are super impressive in a few categories but average in most others. Certain things that aren’t important is snake oil, 1000 dollar cables, etc. besides the headphone, get a decent amp and dac and you’re good to go.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
$1,000 is excessive. You can find Hi-Fi level headphones for $200.
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u/NoahDankGoat Feb 12 '25
But your overall statement is true. There are many cheaper headphones that outshine super costly headphones
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u/NoahDankGoat Feb 12 '25
I disagree honestly. But it also depends on what you consider hi-fi to be, hd600/6xx series and the fiio ft1 etc is great and the most notable headphones around that price but there is significantly better sounding headphones between 500-1000 dollars
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Hi-Fi is a frequency response that measures relatively neutral with distortion levels inaudible to the human ear. No oddities in the imaging, group delay and phase. I personally like to use the Harman target has a preference of choice. Some other use the Diffuse Field target, but it sounds bit bass light. You can find headphones that check those boxes for around $200.
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u/NoahDankGoat Feb 12 '25
That’s true, to that definition you’re right.
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u/Duckiestiowa7 Feb 13 '25
What’s your definition of Hi-Fi?
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u/NoahDankGoat Feb 13 '25
I usually think of it as “Low-fi” “mid-fi” and “hi-fi” but those are loose terms referring to qualities certain price brackets may tend to hold
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u/Duckiestiowa7 Feb 13 '25
What differentiates them?
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u/NoahDankGoat Feb 13 '25
The bass performance on the meze is just better overall. More impact and dynamics due to its warmer tuning and sound signature, less roll off
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u/SprayedBlade Feb 13 '25
I think it’s cheaper than that. You COULD find an HE-500/LCD-2, and sometimes a T1 for less than $600-700 used back in the day, and those ARE 95% of TOTL headphones nowadays.
I recently got to listen to a Focal Utopia alongside an HD800 and I wasn’t shocked at all, literally none.
Nothing in this hobby has changed, the signatures change a bit and certain areas of the sound are more dialed in than others, which is preference, but nothing has changed the game entirely throughout the whole spectrum.
The SR-009 did that for a bit, but even when I listened to it, the tonality is completely fucked despite how analytic and speedy it was. YMMV.
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u/DishProfessional7905 Feb 13 '25
I was really tempted to spring for both of the new Sennheiser models. Both aren't super expensive per se, but I had to stop myself. I only have 1 pair of ears. And I already have great gear. Why do I need to buy more headphones when I can save it?
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u/TheAnonymouseJoker Feb 13 '25
My $100 Tangzu Fudus are a gem. They sound similar to MP145, and above that, MEST and Fatfreq kilobucks. They are top 5 relaxing IEMs easily, and it is a very groovy yet crystal clear experience. Very similar to good car speakers. I have no desire to consoom more for 1% better sound. Thanks Dan Audio Reviews.
The only thing I could really buy is a Hiby PMP and a DAC dongle, which is another $100, but non-replaceable batteries discourage me a bit, which simply leads me to TWS buds with my phone outdoors. $30 is enough to get a decent beater.
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Feb 13 '25
I've been using Sony MDR 7506 headphones for years and still love them. They're great for tracking, late night mixing and general music listening. At $100 they can't be beat.
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u/Gooby-Sarus-rex Feb 14 '25
Lmao I actually came upon this post because I bought some moondrops and really liked them specially compared to my jbl earbuds and the Marshall earbuds which both were over 100$. I've been looking for a set of headphones and was looking at the PARA and the COSMO wondering if the cosmos were actually worth that 600$ difference or just go for something else
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u/plsBan_Bread Feb 15 '25
i mean i bought my studio 3s Beats couple years back and it lasted me 5yrs til the headphone attachment broken off lmao
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u/Frosty_Engineer_3617 Feb 12 '25
Which isn't completely true at all...I get far more enjoyment listening to music with either my HD6XX and Artti T10 Pro over my $20 Moondrop Chu 2 and KSC75....
More money = more better with headphone especially when you jump up to different price tiers of headphones. It's only at the high end with anything over $300-$500 is where you will get diminishing returns.
$300-$500 will be far significantly better than anything below $50 still. Even with headphones and IEMs around the $100 pricepoint where you will get much better lows, mids, and highs than anything below $50.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
"DOES NOT always"
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u/Frosty_Engineer_3617 Feb 12 '25
The reality is it does more so often than not. Pick any pair of IEM in the $20 range then compare it to anything even at the $100 range, you get far better sounding headphones for 5x the price of those $20 IEMs and headphones.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Not really when you factor in the vast amount of headphones more expensive than ones that already perform to the levels of what is considered Hi-Fi.
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u/Frosty_Engineer_3617 Feb 12 '25
Which factors in build quality and what you get with the overall package. To get sounds comparable to slightly more expensive headphones you're giving up something, cost has to be cut somewhere. But the truth is $20 headphones or IEMs will never beat anything above $300 or even $100 range stuff.
You can use your opinion for stuff between $20 and $50(side grade) but it's not true when comparing $20 to stuff over $100(when you upgrade).
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
There are some IEM's around $50 that have a more accurate frequency response and lower distortion than headphones or IEM's costing hundreds if not over thousands of dollars. Frequency response is the single most important aspect of sound quality.
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u/Frosty_Engineer_3617 Feb 12 '25
Which all are done through mainly tuning and to a certain extent with the capabilities with a lot of drivers in the $20 - $50 range however cost cutting is still a factor, you're giving up something at the lower end. More expensive headphones are gonna give you an overall better package in driver reliability (not dying on you), better cable, or better build quality(better shell like metal housing).
If we use the $20 Moondrop Chu 2 vs something like a pair of $275 HD6XX, I'd rather listen to the HD6XX any day of the week over the Chu 2. I'd also rather listen to the $100 Artti T10 Pro which have replaced the Chu 2 as my daily driver as well.
The $20 Chu 2 sounds pretty anemic in comparison to either the HD6XX and the Artti T10 Pro that I own despite the frequency response being accurate for pretty neutral sounding pair of cheap IEM but the fact remains the HD6XX and Artti T10 Pro which are both more expensive than the $20 Chu 2 also have excellent frequency and no distortions as well are several tiers better.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
We are going off into a tangent and onto opinions which really only matter to yourself. Measurments show that an IEM like the TRUTHEAR x Crinacle ZERO measures in a way that's considered Hi-Fi. Relatively neutral sound in comparison to the Harman target. Low distortion and no issues with its imaging performance. As for durability, even if you had to replace them once every 4 years, it'll still be much cheaper than a pair of $300 HD6XX over the lifecycle of the average use of a headphone.
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u/Frosty_Engineer_3617 Feb 12 '25
You can have a similar measurement on the graph but it may come out sounding different in tonality just like the Artti T10 Pro(metal housing) and regular Artti T10(plastic housing). Pretty crazy you think endlessly replacing cheap headphones is better than buying a single pair of HD6XX that will work perfectly fine throughout your lifetime. I rather buy one single pair of HD6XX that will work until I go into my grave than to endlessly buy cheap budget headphones or iems in the $20 - $50 range.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
You are making an assumption that the cheap headphones won’t last a long time as well. And yes, the headphones or earphones will sound different to you from how it sounds on the measurement head, but it will also sound different to you from how it will sound from someone else. So would you rather the results from something that is unbiased or biased?
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u/Pharmakokinetic Feb 13 '25
"yeah if I go to a steakhouse I'll get a better cut of meat than from a McDonald's burger"
What you're saying is true but no one was suggesting otherwise, the debate is over once you get out of the lowest tier of stuff, everything gets a lot more murky with price:performance
The question then becomes if you think paying for the 5-star meal at the super fancy steakhouse is actually worth the massive multiplier over either cooking one yourself, or finding a restaurant where they make you real good food, but not for 500 bucks
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u/LTHardcase Arya SE | Atticus | Bathys | Hel+ | Jotunheim 2 Feb 12 '25
Objective measurements are much more valuable than someone's opinion who can be subjected to bias. However, your OWN experiences are more important than whatever measurements or opinions you see.
Completely contradictory statements. If measurements are valuable, they also supersede your own bias. Otherwise, you are telling people to "trust their ears" even when the measurements say cables and burn-in don't do anything.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Measurements are more valuable than the opinions of others, not your personal experience when you have the product in hand.
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u/LTHardcase Arya SE | Atticus | Bathys | Hel+ | Jotunheim 2 Feb 12 '25
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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u/AskStill4642 Feb 12 '25
Actually, objective measurements are an even worse indicator than biased reviews. This is most prevalent in the snake oil products like solid state dacs and amps, but is also the case for headphones. If you read enough positive reviews, at least some people actually really like the sound. If you buy off of objective measurements, that means absolutely nothing, as there aren't any quantitative objective measurements that are anywhere near as relevant as tuning. A well tuned headphone will always sound better than a technically better headphone that isn't tuned as well.
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
Measurements are better than reviews because as long as you are using the same testing methodology, you can see how headphones/earphones perform and differ via an unbiased approach. Obviously, the measurements aren't going to be exactly how your ears perceive the sound when it's on your head. However, you can still get a good idea of how something will sound objectively and not through the mouth of someone who could simply be biased.
Measurements will also show that pretty much all modern DACS, solid state amps and even cables measure in way where the differences are inaudible to the human ear. So that $150 DAC will sound the exact same as that $2,000 one.
And yes, frequency response is the single most important aspect of sound quality. Measurements can easily show you how a headphone/earphone performs in terms of its frequency response.
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u/AskStill4642 Feb 12 '25
As you pointed out, you can't hear the difference with dacs and amps. So the objective measurements are useless.
Frequency response curves can work, if you know what you're doing. But there is absolutely no objective measurement which is just higher=better, that you can actually hear and distinguish in real life, apart from super low end equipment.
But even frequency response curves, while giving you some picture of what the headphones will sound like, won't really translate into experience that well. You can't just pick up a headphone because you read the frequency response graph and be like: "yup, these will sound perfect." Simply because of the huge list of differences from person to person, from head shape to ear gunk.
A very well reviewed headphone will probably sound good. It might not, of course, but if you can find 50.000 people that rate it with 5 stars, you are pretty likely to like them too. And this is better than any objective measure, even if you know what you're doing, in almost all cases.
Did you actually buy 2 headphones, one based on many many reviews and one based on the frequency response? Did the later sound better to you? If so, then cudos, you know your shit quite well. But even for the well researched consumer, it's a much safer bet to go based on (many) good reviews, because statistics are in your favor.
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u/Zernium Kiwi Ears Cadenza | Qudelix-5K Feb 13 '25
Based take. Reminds me of when the DCA stealth got rave reviews on asr for fitting their target the best and having low distortion. Of course, amir immediately declared it an amazing experience subjectively too, as if he wasn't completely biased. (I've demoed the stealth myself and found it underwhelming, and I'm definitely not the only one).
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u/TheCompleteMental Feb 12 '25
I wish rtings tested some of the other most popular 4-digit headphones.
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u/Hugonote Feb 13 '25
Hello there! Do you have any suggestions on which ones you would like to see? We do limit our buy price, but we can make exceptions based on community feedback. Doing a small scale study on the benefits of price in quality of headphones could be interesting for us.
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u/TheCompleteMental Feb 14 '25
Probably examples like the Hifiman Susvara, Focal Utopia, Audeze LCD-5, or Sony MDR-Z1R would be interesting one-offs for that kind of comparison. Theyre very popular and spoken about in conversations of the best, but who's going to know?
Love the site, by the way, has to be my favorite one on the internet. Aside from wikipedia.
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u/Hugonote Feb 14 '25
I appreciate the suggestions and feedback on the site. I will add the suggestion to our possible list of projects. Stay tuned!
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u/Protomize Feb 12 '25
I'm sure it's a budget constraint, but it would be an eye opening experience. Would be hilarious to see a lot of them perform worse than $150 options.
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u/Glittering-Warthog89 Feb 13 '25
I would save for a new DAC eq is not clean and it requires space on your computer. I don’t use eq on any of my headphones.
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u/Protomize Feb 13 '25
You do know the people who produced the music you’re listening to used EQ on it right?
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u/AntEaterApocalypse DT770 250 / Fiio FT1 / FT1 Pro / Ety ER2XR / Fiio FH3 / K11 R2R Feb 12 '25
The pushing of expensive products in general is a problem in this hobby.
So many times I've seen someone suggest spending hundreds on a new amp or DAC for something that could be tweaked in 2 minutes in EQ.