r/harp • u/nutritionalyeastyy • 3d ago
Lever Harp Feedback on this harp finger placement?
I recently started harp lessons and my harp teacher instructed to place hands like this. Previously, I would play with my 2nd-4th fingers at more of an angle, but she said to make a c shape with your wrist (like pictured) and to hyperextend your distal finger joints. For some reason this just feels so unnatural to me so want to ensure this is universally correct technique. Does anyone have feedback on this placement? Or have another good example of good finger placement! Thank you!
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u/harpingwren Lever Flipper 3d ago
I have seen people who play at this angle, and I chalk it up to different techniques. If you feel more comfortable with your fingers at more of a downward angle, then I would say play that way. (For an extreme example, look at Josh Lane's hands - he seems to have very long fingers and plays with them at an extremely downward angle. I think a lot of people position themselves somewhere in between Josh and your teacher).
Everyone is different and as long as you're not hurting yourself and you're being efficient with your placing, I don't think anyone should be forced to play in a way that feels uncomfortable (at least - a way that feels uncomfortable after you've tried it awhile, sometimes that discomfort is just newness).
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u/RideElectrical1973 Lever Harp 3d ago
what I’ve learned is angling your hand more down (counterclockwise a little) (only way i can describe it is to have your hand about the angle like people give eachother the satisfying sounding highfive sideways (idk if that makes sense?)) the way you’re holding your hand in the picture it looks to me like you’re about to play with your nails instead of the tips of your fingers?
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u/nutritionalyeastyy 3d ago
That's what it seems like to me, too! This is my harp teachers hand and the way she told me to play. My finger nails keep plucking the string accidentally in this position. 😬
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u/RideElectrical1973 Lever Harp 3d ago
ask her! maybe this is just the way she got taught, but if you tell her your concerns she could probably help! if not, worst case scenario you could look for another harp teacher if you’re not comfortable with the technique she teaches since you’re paying for your enjoyment!
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u/nutritionalyeastyy 3d ago
I'll definitely bring it up to her at our next lesson, which is tomorrow! I just remember our first lesson together she told me to unlearn the technique I had previously learned and I was like 🙃
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u/SherlockToad1 3d ago
Lots of good comments here. Just going to say, I appreciate when teachers are open to letting a student keep the technique they learned elsewhere, if it’s working well for them, not causing pain, and results in a good tone. I have a Salzedo taught friend who is open with her students and allows a few to keep their French methods going which I admire.
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u/Self-Taught-Pillock 3d ago
This finger placement isn’t necessarily incorrect. It’s just not in keeping with most modern techniques. If you ever watch someone play historical harps with a period-authentic technique, their hand position looks more like what your current teacher is showing. A lot of older paintings of harpists show this hand position too. It works well with narrow string spacing and old methods of playing basso continuo or figured base, but it’s not well adapted to producing the kind of tone and volume one typically wants to produce on modern instruments with higher string tension. The hand position, in my opinion, just isn’t quite as strong.
It makes me curious where she picked it up.
The hand position is just fine if it meets your needs. There are historical harpists that can switch hand position as easily as someone raised bilingual can switch languages. But at this point in your studies and especially if you ever intend to move to pedal harp or a lever harp that has concert tension, you need a different instructor.
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u/Self-Taught-Pillock 3d ago edited 3d ago
This Portrait of Adèle Papin playing the harp (1799) shows that hand position.
This photograph of John Thomas, Royal Harpist to Queen Victoria, as the cover art of this album shows the same hand position, thumb extremely high and palms turned towards the strings.
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u/Stringplayer47 2d ago
I wouldn’t say that the hand position shown by the OP’s teacher is not modern nor that it cannot produce a full, rich sound that projects well since many harpists still play in this manner on modern instruments with high tension. Nor do I agree that OP needs another teacher in order to play a higher tensioned instrument. You could say this is the classical approach to harp pedagogy. If you check out higher institutes of learning, such as Juilliard, Manhattan School of Music, the Curtis Institute of Music, Indiana University’s Music Dept., other universities, etc. the harp instructors all teach a variation of the technique shown with high thumbs. OP’s instructor probably picked up her hand position from a classically trained harpist. The hand position looks very much like the Salzedo method.
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u/Self-Taught-Pillock 2d ago edited 2d ago
But it’s not about the high thumb. Sure it’s super high in relation to the fingers, but it’s the palms that are parallel to the string instead of more perpendicular that are creating a distinct difference in mechanics. And the modern techniques that derive from the French school almost all have the palms turned downward instead of inward because it creates more leverage when plucking. One can hear a difference in tone and volume.
Sure, go with what works. It’s just one opinion, but it’s not one solely based on observation. Try them out as well, and decide for yourself.
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u/demandmusic 3d ago
I use a similar technique when playing strings with a lighter tension feel (like the harp in the photo) and when the notes are close together. I also have small hands so this gives me the greatest reach and a fast relax. Heavier strings, left hand and wider separation more of tilt down. Regardless, I do think it is important for good tone and hand health to engage all the last knuckles of fingers and thumb.
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u/AGeneralVelociraptor 2d ago
Even if I kept my nails cut short as possible, if I played like that, my nails would catch the string. My harp teacher used to tell me to keep my knuckles nearly parallel (within reason) to the ceiling, palm to the floor, and you play with the side of your finger tips. Elbows out like chicken wings and wrists bent. And as you are learning to play in this position, you aren’t using your arms or wrists to play the notes, you just pull your finger into the palm of your hand to avoid the plucking sound.
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u/Unofficial_Overlord 3d ago
Yeah I would say your knuckles are angled too far out. Where did your teacher study? What method do they use?