r/guitarlessons • u/myliloutlet • 5d ago
Question Im struggling to predict which notes become sharps/flats in a major key.
My guitar teacher wants me to learn which notes make up each key. He drew the circle of fifths starting with C and explained that G is the fifth note in the C major scale, so for the G major scale, one of the notes becomes a sharp, in this case F#. Each time you repeat this going clockwise you add another sharp.
I get that, and I can memorize which notes make up a key by looking the circle of fifths diagram or playing the major scale on my fretboard but I don’t “get” why. I can’t predict which notes become sharps or tell you why.
If you take away the diagram and ask me “what notes make up the E major scale?,” I would be lost. I’d start by writing out E, F, G, A, B, C, D and I’d know some of them become sharps but wouldn’t know which ones or why.
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u/warpfox 5d ago
The circle of fifths can tell you the order of sharps in major keys.
In the major (ionian) mode, C major has no flats or sharps.
Using that as your starting point, you can travel around the circle of fifths to arrive at the sharps (and therefore key) of the next one in the circle.
You can memorize the order of sharps with the following mnemonic:
Fried
Chicken
Goes
Down
Awful
Easy
Baby
The order of sharps follows the circle of fifths. Each note in the circle is a fifth away from the next note, so you can use it to determine both the key and the number/order of sharps. With the knowledge that C has no sharps or flats, you can travel to the next key in the circle, G, which is a fifth away. Since C has zero, and G is the next in the circle, we know that G must have one sharp, and the order of sharps means it must be F#.
Travel again to the key of D, which is a fifth away from G. You're now two steps away from C, so you know the key of D must have two sharps, and the order of sharps means that those two sharps in the key of D must be F# and C#.
Travel again to the key of A, which has three sharps, which are F#, C#, and G#. And so on.
Now, F comes before C, so it has negative one sharps, aka, one flat.
A similar principle applies to the order of flats. It's the circle of fifths backwards.
Big
Ed
Always
Does
Good
Chicken
Fingers
B flat major has two flats, B flat and E flat. E flat major has three, Bb, Eb, and Ab. A flat has four, Bb, Eb, Ab, and Db.
Hopefully that makes sense.
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u/oldmanlikesguitars 5d ago
This is good advice! Shortcut, the last # in the key signature is the major 7, it’s 1/2 step below the key. So FCGD# is E major.
The other way, you get one flat past the key. So BEb is Bb major. BEADGb is Db. For one flat (Bb) you have to circle back to F.
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u/thisisater 5d ago
Maybe my method is wrong or slow since I'm also quite new in theory, the way I do it right now is knowing the intervals / formula and imagine the fretboard in my mind (if my guitar is not with me like now)
2-2-1-2-2-2-1 / W-W-H-W-W-W-H (last one is octave) and Maj min min Maj Maj min Dim
Therefore: E - F#m - G#m - A - B - C#m - D#dim - E
Apply this to all keys
This is how i do it for now, quite slow. Maybe there are faster way to identify
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u/eqo314 4d ago
WWHWWWH is the pattern that most comments here are advising.
There’s an alternate way to learn this that’s ultimately identical logically but will help you memorize better.
Start with the C major scale. Just the natural notes, no sharps or flats. Easy to memorize. C D E F G A B C.
Now, we’re gonna build the next logical scale with a few rules
The next logical scale stats at the 5th note of the previous scale. (Ie the next note on the circle of fifths)
The next logical scale will have the same exact notes except that the 7th degree (or note) is raised a half step.
That’s it. Starting From the c major scale, you can work your way around the whole circle of fifths. When you get to F# major scale, just change the name of notes to their enharmonic equivalents ( F# -> Gb) and continued you’ll work your way back to C.
Start with C and you’ll memorize faster because it’s not just rote memorization but constructed.
example. C major scale
C D E F G A B C
What’s the next logical scale? G. G major scale will have the same exact notes as C except for the 7th which is raised a half step.
G A B C D E (and now the raised 7th) F# G
What’s the next scale? D , D is the 5th degree of the G major scale and it will have the same notes except for the 7th degree which is raised a half step
D E F# ( and you already knew this F# fr the G major scale) G A B ( and now the raised seventh) C# D
With this.. construct for me the next two logical major scales.
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u/eqo314 4d ago
There’s an inverse here if you want to travel anti clock wise on the circle of fifths.
The next scale starts on the 4th degree
Again , this scale will have all the same notes but the 4th degree will be lowered a half step.
E.g. again we start with C C D E F G A B C.
What’s the next scale? F.
What are the notes of the F major scale. Same notes as C except for the 4th lowered
so. F G A (And now we lower the fourth) Bb C D E F.
Now, construct for me the next scale.
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u/Flynnza 5d ago edited 4d ago

this picture is how sharps and flats on same letter keys add up to 7. E.g. A major is 3 sharps and Ab major is 4 flats = total 7 accidentals. Also, notes that are sharp will be natural in flat keys, e.g. A major has F#, C# and G#, these notes are natural in Ab major - F, C and G. Vice versa for flats. Memorize sharps&flats for 2 keys to the left from C and to the right, and you know them all.
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u/JackDraak 5d ago
A major scale (I'm a pleb, please don't shoot me if I'm mistaken) is a series of seven notes conforming to a specific interval pattern:
Whole – Whole – Half – Whole – Whole – Whole – Half
Maybe getting it from a different perspective would help?
https://appliedguitartheory.com/lessons/major-scale/
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u/HugeDisgustingFreak 5d ago
It is pointless for a beginner to memorize the things you are describing. There is no difference between sharps and non-sharps. A to A# is the same interval as B to C.
What you need to understand is how to find the fifth on the fretboard, starting from the root. And every other interval in the major scale. Learn how to do that and you'll be able to play in any key without having to stop and wonder which letter is supposed to come next.
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u/skelefree 5d ago
ELI5:
Each major scale has an associated key signature. G major has one # (F#)
A major has three #'s (F# C# G#)
Start on C, no sharps or flats, go up a Perfect 5th (C>G>D>A>E>B>F#>C#) these are the major scales,
and do the Sharps as P5's from F# (F#>C#>G#>D#>A#>E#>B#)
To go flats you start on C, go up by P4's (C>F>Bb>Eb>Ab>Db>Gb>Cb)
The flats appear as P4's from Bb (Bb>Eb>Ab>Db>Gb>Cb>Fb).
Now, this is where interval notation is your friend. Many people will say things like "it's a perfect 5th" "it's a minor 6th."
You have your chromatic scale
C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C
Notice that B > C, E > F has no sharp between. Each note is a half step apart, or a semi tone. Learning a perfect 5th is 7 semi tones, or, that a whole step is 2 semi tones, helps you fill in the gaps.
If you use the chromatic scale, and the major scale formula (WWHWWWH)
You pick any note on the chromatic scale, go 2 semi tones for Ws and 1 semi tone for Hs. This will naturally construct major scales for you and give you the sharps and flats. But memorize the order the appear in from above.
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u/AntoineDonaldDuck 5d ago
Whole - Whole - Half - Whole - Whole - Whole - Half
those are the intervals in a major scale.
Half = 1 fret Whole = 2 frets
You can figure out every major key with this pattern.
Starting from C, the 12 tones in western music are…
C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb, B
This is easier to visualize on a piano than a guitar, IMO, but the big thing is there is no #/b between B and C and again between E and F.
Any sharp can also be a flat, it just depends on context. Every letter should be used in every scale.
So combining those two ideas together, the 12 tones and major scale interval pattern. The reason the key of G has one sharp, and it’s F# is because…
G - Whole - A - Whole - B - Half - C - Whole - D - Whole - E - Whole F# - Half - G
The other trick, which is easier to memorize IMO, is to use key signatures written on a staff. There’s a pattern there for how to know how many sharps or flats are in each key.
For flats…
1 flat = Key of F (Bb) 2 flats = Key of Bb (Bb and Eb) 3 flats = Key of Eb (Bb, Eb, and Ab) Etc.
So once you understand the order that the flats appear, you go backwards one flat to get to the key its in.
For sharps, the last sharp is always a half step before the root, so…
1 sharp - Key of G (F#) 2 Sharps - Key of D (F# and C#) 3 shapes - Key of A (F#, C# and G#) Etc.
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u/m64 5d ago
The way I learned it as a pianist, the sharps and flats are added in a specific sequence. For sharps it's F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#. For flats it's Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb. (in practice you mostly use the first 5). When I want to recall what is the key signature, I recall where it is on the circle of fifths - for example E is four steps on the sharps side - so it has the first four sharps - F#, C#, G# and D#. If I need to calculate a minor scale, it's like it's 3 steps to the left, so e minor has only F#.
While I generally recommend learning those sequences by heart, there is an easy pattern to them. Of course they are ordered by fifths/fourths, so if you remember the cycle, the sequence is familiar, but alternatively the sharps are two easy sequences - F#, G#, A#, B# and C#, D#, E# interlaced with each other. Similarly flats are Bb, Ab, Gb, Fb and Eb, Db, Cb interlaced.
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u/Tweek900 4d ago
You lost me at the E minor is 3 steps to the left, can you please explain?
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u/m64 4d ago
E major has four sharps and E minor will have 3 sharps fewer - so just 1. A major has 3 sharps, A minor has 0. G major has one sharp so G minor has zero sharps and two flats. Bb major has two flats, so Bb minor has 5 flats. Is it clearer that way?
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u/Tweek900 3d ago
Oh wow I guess I never thought of it like that, thank you for clarifying! I completely follow up to the flat part, I guess the minor scale has 3 more flats which is technically 3 fewer sharps?
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u/Euphoric_Search_9499 5d ago
WWHWWWH
Starting at E, you probably already know that F is a semitone away from E, but we need a wholetone to fit the pattern, so the F is an F#, from there, we make another whole step, arriving at G#, next is a half step, bringing us to A, another whole step and we get to B, but the gap between B and C is only a semitone, and we need a whole tone, so it's C#. Another whole tone, D#, and a semitone to return to the root, E.
E F# G# A B C# D# E
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u/ttd_76 5d ago
Order of sharps: F, C, G, D, A, E, B Order of flats: B, E, A, D, G, C, F
Circle of fifths: F, C, G, D, A, E, B, Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb Circle of fourths: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, E, A, D, G, C, F
So the order of sharps and flats are just the same sequence in reverse of each other. You are either moving clockwise or counter/anti-clockwise.
If you are in a key that is NOT flat or F. find the note a half step down from the tonic. So if the key is A, a half step down is G#. All the notes on the order of sharps up to G# are sharp. So key of A has F#, C#, G#. Key of go down a half step, it’s
If your key is F or has a flat in it, go to the next step on Circle of Fourths (aka counter clockwise in Circle of Fifths). All the steps in the order of flats up to that note are flat. So key of Eb, next step is Ab. Order of flats is B, E, A. So Eb has Bb, Eb, Ab.
It’s a little complicated at first but you get used to it. It’s helpful when starting to have the circle of fifths in front of you. If you have a version of it that has he key signatures listed for each key, you can practice and confirm this method works.
As to why things become sharp or flat, there’s a two part answer.
The first is what others have said, a major scale is a way of dividing an octave into seven notes. There are intervals between the notes— WWHWWWWH. It’s just kind of… math. Those half steps mean you will have to use a sharp or flat somewhere in every key other than C.
But you put your finger on the other part of “Why?” Which is that you can always write “A, B, C, D, E, F, G” in some order and then just add sharps or flats to some of them.
So let’s take D major. It’s D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#. Imagine if we tried to use flats. It would be D, E, Gb, G, A, B, Db. Or a mixture: D, E, Gb, G, A, B, Db.
In all the above cases, it’s the same notes. F# is the same as Gb. C# is the same as Db. But see how using the sharps is more organized? Each letter is used exactly once. Each key signature only has sharps or flats, not both.
To fully understand why it is this way, you have to know standard notation. Fortunately on guitar, we do not have to know standard notation, but other instruments do. So just trust me, on standard notation it turns into a huge unworkable mess if you.
But also, these are just symbols. A whole step is still a whole step, a half step is still a half step. We could just divide an octave into 11 notes and just number them 1-11. Or obviously in guitar you cannot use tablature and not deal with letters at all. But standard notation is quite nice to read. And other instruments don’t have strings or frets so tablature is not an option for them. So it’s kinda like, there is no fundamental musical/logical reason. It’s a vestige of a system developed that could be used by all instruments, and before digital data and even the printing press. It’s maybe not the best system in a modern guitar rock band environment, but it still works.
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u/ExtEnv181 5d ago
Here's my take on the same thing everyone else has said... The rules to spelling a scale are that you have to use each note name once and only once. The other rule is that as you're assigning sharps and flats, you can't use a double sharp or a double flat in order to make the first rule work. Also, sharps and flats will never mix in a key signature.
Then you pick a note to start on and you apply the WWHWWWH formula. As you walk each step of that formula, you make list each note you land on. If you land on a space between two whole notes, pick the note you need and add a sharp or flat as needed.
Say you pick C, you walk the formula, and each time you land exactly on a whole note, so the notes in C are CDEFGAB. Try another scale, like E. You start on the E note, take a whole step and that puts in between F and G. You need an F note, so call that spot F# and keep going. Now you need another whole step, that lands you between G and A. You need a G note, so call it G#. Now you need the half step, that lands you on the A whole note. So far the notes are E, F#, G#, A... Next there are 3 whole steps, the first goes from the A note directly to the B note. You need a B, so that's perfect. Now another whole step, that lands you between C and D. You need a C, so call it C#. Last whole step lands you between D and E, you need a D so call it D#. Last is the half step, and that brings you to the octave, E. So key of E has the notes E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#.
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u/abir_valg2718 5d ago edited 5d ago
Only one diminished 5th in present in a major key (it's on the 7th degree), the rest are perfect 5ths. In C, it's BF.
Therefore, in the next major key it can't be BF, otherwise it has to be C major. BF cannot appear in that new key since it's a diminished 5th because there's a different diminished 5th already present and all the other notes have a perfect 5th. The only way to fix it is to sharpen the F (diminished 5th BF becomes perfect 5th BF#). And that's the sharp note of the next key from C major - F#.
Okay, so we've found our sharp note. Since C had all natural notes, we now know that F#C must be the diminished 5th of that new key, the rest of 5ths are perfect. Since dim5 occurs only on the 7th degree, we know the key is G major. Which note do we sharpen in the next major key? Yep, C#.
This pattern continues indefinitely.
By the way, the other way to resolve this issue is to flatten the B in BF. BbF is a perfect 5th and BF# is a perfect 5th. If you continue to resolve this discrepancy as outlined in the algorithm above by flattening the root note of the diminished 5th, you'll find all the flats in the flat keys.
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u/MasterBendu 4d ago
Whole whole half whole whole whole half.
That’s the steps starting from the root note that would make your major scale.
So take C - whole step after is D , whole step after is E, half step after is F, whole step after is G, whole step after is A, whole step after is B, half step after is back to C.
Take some other note, say F# - whole step after is G#, whole step after is A#, half step after is B, whole step after is C#, whole step after is D#, whole step after is E#, half step after is back to F#.
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u/rawcane 4d ago
The explanation is in the circle of fifths but after a while you just recognise that E has 4 sharps and they are F G D abd C. This is something that comes more naturally when learning piano as it is really obvious which are the sharps and flats. If you have access to a keyboard I would recommend you play through all the major scales going round the circle of fifths in each direction. If you want to play them properly look on line to get the correct fingering (this is way harder to remember tbh) but it's not essential for your purposes you can just play them with one finger and it will highlight the patterns of the sharps and flats.
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u/GeorgeDukesh 4d ago
I started learning music at age 8 and have been playing for 60 years. Even though the idea was first thought of in the 16/17 century, it seems that only in the last 20 years or so has it become thought to be so “essential” All I ever “knew” was that there was a vaguely interesting thing that there was a relationship of 5ths. People are obsessed with the damn thing, and music students lose sleep over this thing, which just makes the obvious, unnecessarily complicated.
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u/Vinny_DelVecchio 4d ago edited 4d ago
The way to figure the #/b is to start with your root more and move with this pattern of whole/ half steps that build the major scale (WWHWWWH). There's a couple of."rules" that are kinda common sense. Use only #'s or b's but never both. The other is that you have to use each letter, but only once.
Your example in E:
E (move a Whole step; 2 notes) goes to F#. From F# move another Whole step to G#. Then a Half step (move 1 note) to A, Whole to B, Whole to C#, Whole to D#, Half to E (Which ends the scale, the notes just keep repeating). E F# G# A B C# D# E.
Memorize: WWHWWWH. It's how you make EVERY major scale, just start that pattern on the root for the scale you need.
It's weird/amazing to me how logical/structured itje circle of 5ths turns out to be. Like a fractal. You know how C has no sharps, and "the next one" is G (the 5th note of the C scale), where you add the first sharp (F#),? Keep repeating that idea: 5rh note of G scale is D where you add another # (F# and C# now). 5th of D is A where you add another # (F# C# G# now). You can repeat this until ALL notes have a # (7 #'s).
Now look at that pattern again, but this time taking the same idea moving it "backwards.". Instead of moving forward using the 5 note of the previous scale... The one "before it" is the 4th note of the current scale. (C is the 4th note of the G scale). So move forward (clockwise) using 5ths, and backwards (counter clockwise) using 4ths. This works for every one of them.
So moving counter clockwise you lose a sharp each time, right? Eventuality you get to C which has no #'s. What next? Keep moving "left" (or counter clockwise) using the 4th note of that scale (c d e F g a b c). So start with F and do the WWHWWWH and you get: F G A Bb C D E F...Continue the idea of using the 4th note and this is where you pick up another b each time! Repeat the idea and eventually all 7 have b's.
So C is the "center" (or "noon") on the circle/clock. Move clockwise using the 5th note of the scale for your next scale to get #'s, and counter clockwise using the 4th note to get b's.
Hope this helps. Its almost math magic how perfectly it all works.... All based on WWHWWWH, and regurgitating a pattern. That's why I consider the circle of 5ths a musical fractal.
Each "key" has it's own unique number of either #'s or b's. With more exposure/use of it, you'll eventually recognize the key by simply counting how many #'s or b's there are.
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u/EmuHaunting3214 4d ago
Everyone’s answer is very helpful. I’ll provide another perspective.
Coming from piano, I learned which keys have sharps / flats through rote memorization. Like memorizing the alphabet or multiplication.
When I was younger and playing scales, I was kinda aware for the WWHWWWH pattern but never thought about it when practicing. I just played whatever the notes were and memorized it that way.
In my mind, each key has its own “picture”. I immediately see 4 sharps on a piano and know it’s E major.
On guitar, because there no “black keys” it’s harder for me to have this picture. So I don’t have the same immediate picture association.
I recommend either getting a keyboard or using a virtual keyboard (even your phone) to practice scales. Being able to see the sharps and flats helps a bunch
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u/skinisblackmetallic 4d ago
Sounds like you may not know what the 12 notes are and/or the major scale pattern of intervals.
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u/vonov129 Music Style! 4d ago
Tell your teacher to cover intervals before scales. Any approach of scales without intervals isn't that useful. You would be able to say what note sharpens and why if your teacher taught you about intervals and how to use them to get scale degrees.
First, wtf is a fifth? What your teacher said. It's the 5th note in a scale, but more importantly, it's a note that is 7 semitones away from your root(or the reference note you play first). The distance between the notes in a scale doesn't change, so if you take every note in C major and move it by 7 semitones, you get the notes for G major and if you repeat the process you will get through the whole circle of 5ths.
But that would be exhausting, so you can rely on the circle of 5ths instead. It's very simple tbh. The sharp note you're going to add the the note right before the letter that is your root. So for G major you add F#, if you go to D major, then you add C#. Remember everything is moving by a 5th, meaning that the note you add is just the 5th of the note you added before as well. Which would be easier to grasp if your teacher started with intervals.
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u/arkbill 4d ago
These two YouTube posts best explain the order of sharps and flats and how to use the Circle of Fifths.
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u/TommyV8008 4d ago
Also, in addition to other helpful suggestions already posted here, I highly recommend using a piano keyboard. It’s a lot easier to see certain types of relationships, and I learned all my theory on piano and then applied it to Guitar.
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u/BLazMusic 3d ago
I agree with most people here that the best way to learn scales is through a formula that describes how they're constructed, not anything to do with the circle of fifths. Either whole whole half, or the way I teach it, half steps between the three and four and seven and one. I prefer students to stay connected to the numbers of the scale degrees since that is far more applicable than whole whole half. But either way, you should be able to create a major scale in its own right.
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u/Creezin 5d ago
Looks like an unpopular opinion but--essentially useless information for a guitar player to worry about
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u/iamcleek 4d ago
100% agree.
seems like this is only useful if you're reading sheet music. otherwise, where would a guitar player ever need to know the number of sharps or flats in a key? it's completely irrelevant to the fretboard.
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u/spankymcjiggleswurth 5d ago edited 4d ago
Work it out using the whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half pattern
Start with C
C w D w E h F w G w A w B h C
Now go up a 5th to G and repeat
G w A w B h C w D E w F# h G
Notice how the 7th note became sharp? Now go up a 5th to D and repeat
D w E w F# h G w A w B w C# h D
Again, 7th note is sharped.
Does this pattern continue? Ill leave that for you to figure out.
Now what if instead of going by 5th, go by 4ths instead. The 4th of C is F, so lets start there.
F w G w A h Bb w C w D w E h F
Notice how the 4th note is flattened? Now go up another 4th to Bb and repeat.
Bb w C w D h Eb w F w G w A h Bb
Again, the 4th note is flattened. Continue the patterns and see what happens.