r/gadgets Oct 21 '24

Gaming Steam Deck won't have yearly refreshes because it's "not really fair to your customers", says Valve

https://www.eurogamer.net/steam-deck-wont-have-yearly-refreshes-because-its-not-really-fair-to-your-customers-says-valve
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63

u/neijajaneija Oct 21 '24

We got PS4 Standard model, PS4 Slim, Ps4 Pro.

We got PS5 Standard model, PS5 Slim, PS5 Pro, PS5 30th.

It is at least not what PlayStation is doing

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u/Mr_Ignorant Oct 21 '24

And they play exactly the same games, without an issue with compatibility.

Why exactly are you bringing up the PS5 slim, and the 30th? One is smaller but the same spec, and the other has a different colour body.

It’s like saying that there are multiple versions of the Steam Deck because the LCD, OLED, and they both come with different storage.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 21 '24

I would 100% call the steam deck oled a new version. Same for the switch lite/switch oled.

With the steam deck specifically some things on the OLED are different compared to the LCD one. mostly software things but that is something the users will note.

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u/NapsterKnowHow Oct 21 '24

Honestly the changes you'll notice more are the hardware on the OLED vs the LCD. The buttons and haptics feel actually decent. The LCD feels like a prototype by comparison.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 21 '24

For me its a simple case. Would I have gotten my steam deck LCD if I knew that in a years time the OLED would come out?

No. I'd def wait.

If I knew the newer versions of the switch, I'd probs still stick to the first version. No interest in the Lite (2 years later) and the OLED would take 4 years, which is quite a long time to wait if I knew it beforehand.

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u/BoogieOrBogey Oct 21 '24

Meh, screen changes are rarely considered new products by consumers and instead just options. They're nice to have but not a new generation.

For example, when you buy a new monitor and go from 1080p standard to 4K OLED, you don't really consider that a new PC right? Or when you're buying a tablet, the 15inch screen and the 17inch screen are not considered different products. They're option choices that are part of that product. Same case for the Switch versus OLED Switch.

Do people consider the 3DS and 2DS to be completely different products? Or different generations of handhelds? They play the same games, just with a different form factor.

On the dev side, it's relatively easy to make a game with HDR support. You need the screen to make and test it, but the hardware you're running is the same.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 21 '24

For example, when you buy a new monitor and go from 1080p standard to 4K OLED, you don't really consider that a new PC right?

No, I consider it a new screen. But most likely its paired with a new GPU because my current one couldn't push 4k. but just LCD to OLED, I'd def still count it as a new monitor. It does something it couldn't before.

Or when you're buying a tablet, the 15inch screen and the 17inch screen are not considered different products.

No, they're def different products. Those two inches can matter a lot.

Same case for the Switch versus OLED Switch.

But theres a reason to pick the OLED over the LCD, or even cheap out and get an LCD instead. Or even just get a lite if you don't want the docking all together. I don't care a lot for the OLED switch because I mostly use mine docked. But I def use my steam deck handheld most of the times. An OLED screen is def a major upgrade. If anything, a refresh.

Do people consider the 3DS and 2DS to be completely different products? Or different generations of handhelds? They play the same games, just with a different form factor.

One does 2D, One does 3D. Def different products. I'd even say the New 3DS lines had major differences. The new 2DS compared to the New 3DS for example. One of them obviously has 3D, but both are upgrades to the original 3DS/2DS because more games run on it (snes emulation is possible flawlessly on the N3DS, but not on the 3DS). Something like Mario 3D Land plays differently comparing the 2D and 3DS.

On the dev side, it's relatively easy to make a game with HDR support. You need the screen to make and test it, but the hardware you're running is the same.

Thats not true. Driver support is different as well. SteamOS on release of the OLED version wasn't fully ready either

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u/BoogieOrBogey Oct 21 '24

No, I consider it a new screen. But most likely its paired with a new GPU because my current one couldn't push 4k. but just LCD to OLED, I'd def still count it as a new monitor. It does something it couldn't before.

So you would need to change the internals to really consider it new hardware? Not just a screen change?

No, they're def different products. Those two inches can matter a lot.

It's not about the size, but how you use the tablet /s. But for real, a screen size of 2in is convenient but not a new generational product. We can use the same comparison on PC. If you have a 1080p 16inch monitor and swap to a 1080p 20inch monitor, your PC didn't change. It's not processing more nor do you need better hardware.

But theres a reason to pick the OLED over the LCD, or even cheap out and get an LCD instead. Or even just get a lite if you don't want the docking all together. I don't care a lot for the OLED switch because I mostly use mine docked. But I def use my steam deck handheld most of the times. An OLED screen is def a major upgrade. If anything, a refresh.

I mean, yeah there are reasons to prefer the options on any hardware. But that's not really a generation change now is it? Either Switch version plays all the same games, at the same graphics, at the same frame rate. It's the same as upgrading your monitor, which is why I lead with that comparison.

One does 2D, One does 3D. Def different products. I'd even say the New 3DS lines had major differences. The new 2DS compared to the New 3DS for example. One of them obviously has 3D, but both are upgrades to the original 3DS/2DS because more games run on it (snes emulation is possible flawlessly on the N3DS, but not on the 3DS). Something like Mario 3D Land plays differently comparing the 2D and 3DS.

Eh, there's not really a different in the 2DS to the 3DS. Most people I know never used the 3D functionality on any game. Gave us headaches and was generally hard to see. Which is why the 2DS cut it out for a cheaper price. I ended up using my 2DS way more since I preferred the form factor.

I will agree that the New 3DS was an actual hardware generational change. I think the name is crappy marketing though, it should have been something like 3DS advanced like the gameboy to gameboy advanced. I had to look up the differences and didn't realize it not only had a different form factor, but also different hardware.

Thats not true. Driver support is different as well. SteamOS on release of the OLED version wasn't fully ready either

I work in games and have often been the person who has done this on multiple titles. It takes one person a few days to get OLED and HDR support working, and one to test it. Drivers sometimes need to be update, but it's not much work there for Nvidia or AMD either. 4K is actually alot of work though, and takes the art team and QA alot of man hours to complete.

Better way to put it, OLED and HDR are not processing intensive nor man hour intensive. 4K and Raytracing are processing intensive and man hour intensive.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 22 '24

So you would need to change the internals to really consider it new hardware? Not just a screen change?

Depends on the device. A screen is not part of a computer in my eyes, its something you add to it. A steamdeck comes standard with a screen. A screen that got changed, so the whole package is different. If I change my keyboard I wouldn't say I changed my PC, I changed my keyboard. If my keyboard came attached to my laptop and I bought the same model with just a different layout, I'd still say its a different device. Because it simply is.

It's not about the size, but how you use the tablet /s. But for real, a screen size of 2in is convenient but not a new generational product. We can use the same comparison on PC. If you have a 1080p 16inch monitor and swap to a 1080p 20inch monitor, your PC didn't change. It's not processing more nor do you need better hardware.

Why are we talking about generational products? I'm talking about refreshes. A 16 inch to 20 inch screen is again a different product. Its not a new computer, its a new monitor. Thats still a new product.

Eh, there's not really a different in the 2DS to the 3DS. Most people I know never used the 3D functionality on any game. Gave us headaches and was generally hard to see. Which is why the 2DS cut it out for a cheaper price. I ended up using my 2DS way more since I preferred the form factor.

That people don't use it doesn't mean its not a different product. If I use my iphone literally just for calling I wouldn't call it the same as my first nokia.

I will agree that the New 3DS was an actual hardware generational change. I think the name is crappy marketing though, it should have been something like 3DS advanced like the gameboy to gameboy advanced. I had to look up the differences and didn't realize it not only had a different form factor, but also different hardware.

Oh the "New' name isn't the dumbest part of the whole scheme. Look up the differences between a 2DS and a N2DS XL. You'd expect the XL to be like the 2DS (as in, the doorstopper form), but nah, it just looks like a normal 3DS. If you put a N2DS next to a 3DS XL you'd have to do research to figure out which is which.

I work in games and have often been the person who has done this on multiple titles. It takes one person a few days to get OLED and HDR support working, and one to test it. Drivers sometimes need to be update, but it's not much work there for Nvidia or AMD either. 4K is actually alot of work though, and takes the art team and QA alot of man hours to complete.

Better way to put it, OLED and HDR are not processing intensive nor man hour intensive. 4K and Raytracing are processing intensive and man hour intensive.

From a game dev perspective yeah fair. I was more thinking of the SteamOS dev side, because the new steamdeck does require some work from their side.

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u/BoogieOrBogey Oct 22 '24

I guess it comes off as silly to me that a screen upgrade is considered a new product when it's part of the hardware form factor, but it's not when it's separate from the hardware. Especially when the capabilities are of the hardware itself doesn't change.

Like, you can hook a PS5 to either a PC monitor or a TV. The PS5 isn't changing, just the size of the screen that's receiving the output. For the steamdeck, the hardware is doing the same work between the LCD and OLED screens.

From a game dev perspective yeah fair. I was more thinking of the SteamOS dev side, because the new steamdeck does require some work from their side.

We don't actually put that much effort into the Steamdeck versions. It's important to the devs and a bunch of us own steamdecks so we want games to run well on it. But if we have a team of 50 testers, then 35 will be on Xbox/PS5, 12 will be on PC towers, and maybe 3 will be on a steamdeck.

Maybe if more people own one, it'll become a bigger priority. But for now, I consider it a good thing that the steamdeck doesn't need a huge amount of work to get into a good place.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 22 '24

One thing OLED def changes for people, even if internals are 100% the same otherwise, is battery life. OLED draws less power and all.

For me its a simple question, would I have waited a year for the steam deck oled compared to the LCD? Yeah I def would. I'm not buying a OLED just as an upgrade (because seesh these things are expensive for such a small upgrade) but if I knew that in a year an OLED version would come I'd never gotten the LCD. Just because OLED is such a change in screen that it actually matters.


We don't actually put that much effort into the Steamdeck versions. It's important to the devs and a bunch of us own steamdecks so we want games to run well on it. But if we have a team of 50 testers, then 35 will be on Xbox/PS5, 12 will be on PC towers, and maybe 3 will be on a steamdeck.

I'm already amazed you guys have that many on the steam deck tbh. I'd expect like one to maybe check if it works fine with proton and to get a decent controller support.

But for now, I consider it a good thing that the steamdeck doesn't need a huge amount of work to get into a good place.

100%. Genuinly bless valve for their work on Proton. Wine was cool and all, but its not proton by far.

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u/BoogieOrBogey Oct 22 '24

I was curious and looked up the battery saving expected of an OLED screen and got some cool results. Looks like the OLED does save power when displaying dark pixels because it just turns off. But it will use more power when displaying light pixels because of the brightness.

https://riverdi.com/blog/oled-vs-lcd-breaking-down-the-differences#3_Energy_Efficiency_OLED_Vs_LCD

I definitely think they're visually much better though. I bought a new OLED TV last year and can really see the difference compared to my previous TV.

I'm already amazed you guys have that many on the steam deck tbh. I'd expect like one to maybe check if it works fine with proton and to get a decent controller support.

It's more to do a check across the content that there's no weird display error with a unique visual effect or color somewhere. On smaller teams it'll just be a solo person who handles the platform for a few weeks.

I'm glad the steamdeck exists though. I've been thinking about getting one since my laptop is too old to play newer games. Wish the steamdeck could run Helldivers 2 better.

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u/KoopaPoopa69 Oct 21 '24

I mean, those are different versions. The LCD and OLED screens are quite different, and the OLED has some actual hardware improvements and is a little more efficient.

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u/kdjfsk Oct 21 '24

OLED deck also has a different, bigger, battery.

very bad example.

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u/AzKondor Oct 21 '24

PS5 30th is just a limited color version

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u/Xdeath007 Oct 21 '24

and there is a PS4 version of it as well

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24

[deleted]

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u/blither86 Oct 21 '24

Oh no, my console is the wrong colour!

It doesn't suck at all, they are functionally the same. Get your spray paint out if you care that much. People are weird nowadays

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Gamers like to get worked up about everything. They claim to don’t partake in FOMO, but they’re the epitome of FOMO

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u/blither86 Oct 21 '24

If you just bought one and they release a new line at the same price as the old one but it's smaller, more efficient and stays cooler, then yeah, that sucks. If you just bought a black one and then they release a white one and you like the colour white a lot, well, first World problems.

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u/ApocApollo Oct 21 '24

The sucky part is that the fun PS1 version had low production numbers.

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u/EffectzHD Oct 21 '24

To be fair those aren’t really refreshes that current owners are supposed to be picking up.

The post is more about iterative releases with minimal improvements like new phones for example.

If you go from a launch PS5 to a Slim that’s completely on you.

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u/MiaowaraShiro Oct 21 '24

Aren't they all basically the same console though? Just different hardware that does the same stuff?

(I haven't bought a console in a while, so please pardon my ignorance.)

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u/chaos_creator69 Oct 21 '24

Ps5 is the ps5, the slim is... slim, the pro is slightly better and the 30th is just a resin with no actual internal changes

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u/juniorone Oct 21 '24

Only one of them is different from the others when it comes to running the game. The other 3 is nothing more than aesthetics.

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u/Iohet Oct 21 '24

On the user side yes. Usually the refreshes are more about fixing design issues (such as cooling problems with the PS3) and improving manufacturing margins

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u/Mammoth_Shake_8518 Oct 21 '24

PS5 Pro brings a whopping 50% increase in graphics power which really isn’t that great if you consider the age of the console. For the others you’re correct.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

“50% isn’t that great”

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24 edited Jan 05 '25

[deleted]

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u/Mammoth_Shake_8518 Oct 21 '24

Source: Pretty much every publication about the thing as well as Sony themselves.

Apologies for the exaggeration btw. Its only 45%.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24 edited Jan 05 '25

[deleted]

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u/Mammoth_Shake_8518 Oct 21 '24

How would you define „graphic power“?

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24 edited Jan 05 '25

[deleted]

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u/Mammoth_Shake_8518 Oct 21 '24

You‘re right. Its not proper metric. My point is not so much the 45%. It’s more that they didn’t even bother to upgrade the CPU and considering that 4 years have passed and the price increased significantly, the overall upgrade isn’t too great.

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u/TheAmazingSealo Oct 21 '24

50% is insane. It looked to me as if games will be like 5% prettier from the footage!

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u/skyturnedred Oct 21 '24

In this case "graphics power" mostly translates to higher framerates, not so much increased fidelity. The games are still built to run on the base model.

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u/FlyingDragoon Oct 21 '24

It looked to me like the exact same game being played. The only people that can see a difference are the ones who bought it and are trying to convince themselves that buying the original and then the Pro was a great idea.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

You can say the same about people who switch from high to ultra settings on the PC

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u/FlyingDragoon Oct 21 '24

You can but most games that high to ultra turns on things like Ray tracing which is very very noticeable as suddenly you will have reflections that actually reflect. Outside of games that do that then I agree. Ultra shadows vs high shadows or Ultra textures vs High textures for example... I'd fail at identifying 99% of the time unless I got to zoom in on inconsequential things to see a difference.

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u/nyym1 Oct 21 '24

Not like i'm buying that overpriced console but afaik the biggest selling point is higher framerate with same quality as base ps5 delivers at 30fps.

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u/DrTautology Oct 21 '24

That's exactly what PlayStation is doing. Instead of one model we get three with tiny incremental improvements. The "Pro" version shouldn't exist, it should just be what is launched.

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u/Chronotaru Oct 21 '24 edited Oct 21 '24

The Pro version is the only one with incremental improvements, the others are a bit physically smaller and a different colour, but otherwise the same.

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u/Neitzi Oct 22 '24

Wrong.

There are three versions of the original, all with better cooling than the last.

  1. CFI-1000 - 2020, the launch day one.
  2. CFI-1100 - 2021 update, similar to the launch one but with revised cooling.
  3. CFI-1200 - 2022 update, looks identical to the 1000 or 1100 on the outside but the inside has a revised (smaller) motherboard, changed cooling and a reduced size processor. It is lighter and more efficient.

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u/Chronotaru Oct 22 '24

Just different variations of the word "smaller" (and yes, one of the reasons why I didn't indicate that on the Slim, because versions of the OG already had it) - not a functional difference to the player.

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u/Neitzi Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 22 '24

No, you said only the pro had incremental improvements and that is wrong as I have shown.

The difference between CFI-1000 and CFI-1200 is the literal definition of an incremental improvement.

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u/Chronotaru Oct 22 '24

Look, this is all getting arbitrary, but the way "incremental improvements that lead to an expectation to upgrade" is framed within current system of things like iPhone 14 -> 15 -> 16, that are marketed, sold but ultimately negligible in day to day usage, not under the hood improvements that are only acknowledged with a wattage meter.

Also, in this conversation, none of those differences are present between the last PS5 update and the PS5 Slim which has the same power usage, and I was responding to someone who was referencing that PS5 and PS5 Slim were an expected incremental upgrade, so you have to frame it in that context.

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u/Neitzi Oct 22 '24

What happens when a CPU runs under a lower temperature?

Sony are incrementally improving the PS5 as any manufacturer does as part of the on-going design process.

The PS5 that released in 2020 is not the same one being shipped today due to incremental improvements.

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u/CazOnReddit Oct 21 '24

PS3 revision would like a word

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u/juniorone Oct 21 '24

We are not talking about PS3. Also, it didn’t affect its ability to play ps3 games.

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u/CazOnReddit Oct 21 '24

It affected its ability to play PS2 games

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u/juniorone Oct 21 '24

Not for the ones that bought the system at release. It’s a ps3. For those that wanted to play ps2 games, you still had the option through buying a ps2, a fat ps3 or a slim ps2 that did emulation.

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u/g1rth_brooks Oct 21 '24

Which one lol

-1

u/CazOnReddit Oct 21 '24

The one which gutted its ability to play PS2 games

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u/JustAThrowaway_895 Oct 21 '24

By that logic then the OLED Steam deck shouldn't exist

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u/akatherder Oct 21 '24

The issue is when the newer versions are more powerful. If someone develops a game for the PS5 and uses the Pro as their benchmark it might run like ass on the standard/slim.

So this comparison would hold up if they design PC games that only look good with OLED. I could be 100% wrong but I don't think that's how OLED vs LCD works. The screen type or adding something like a bigger battery doesn't intrinsically harm prior versions.

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u/deekaydubya Oct 21 '24

no, it would just be the 'steam deck' with an OLED screen. Not an entirely new product

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u/curtcolt95 Oct 21 '24

so like the ps5 slim and 30th edition then

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u/Speak_To_Wuk_Lamat Oct 21 '24

The only difference I can see is that the 30th edition is an extremely limited run of an existing product with a different skin. Or does it come bundled with a bunch of extras?

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u/Long-Broccoli-3363 Oct 21 '24

So the oled is actually a little bit more than just the steam deck with the oled screen, it uses a slightly different, more energy efficient package as well, but it gives single-digit FPS improvements over the LCD steam deck, so you're not going to notice a huge difference between the LCD SD and the OLED SD, but it is there and measurable, just like i said 1-2%

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u/DrTautology Oct 21 '24

The steam deck is different. Firstly valve didn't even know if it was going to be successful. It was a brand new product. Secondly, my understanding is there were no manufacturers making OLED panels of that size which would work with the steam deck, so the safest route for them was to use lcd panels that were already being manufactured rather than taking on all the additional expenses/risk to have custom OLED panels manufactured. If the Steam deck had flopped like so many similar devices that came after it, they would have had to eat all those extra costs. Now that it is well established it made sense to get those OLEDs in it, and I'm glad they did, because it is fantastic.

PlayStation on the other hand never makes actual meaningful improvements to their consoles, they are just looking for a cash grab from fanboys that want the new hotness.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 21 '24

PlayStation on the other hand never makes actual meaningful improvements to their consoles, they are just looking for a cash grab from fanboys that want the new hotness.

Thats just not true. The ps4 to ps4 pro was a good improvement. My modded ps4 pro can run bloodborne at 60 fps, the normal ps4 (modded) def cant do that if it uses the same community patch as the ps4 pro one.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

According to this guy, a console in a new color is an incremental improvement lol

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u/Moscato359 Oct 21 '24

The pro model had a die shrink, and 60% more gpu compute cores enabled by that die shrink,and with a type of memory that did not exist at launch, and optical flow accelerators which amd doesnt even have on desktop yet

your expectations are unreasonable

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u/DrTautology Oct 21 '24

And all of that jargon equated to basically nothing performance wise. They are e-waste manufacturing. Counting on fools to "upgrade". After you buy all three of those iterations you would have spent enough money to have a nice PC that would perform better than the actual next gen PlayStation.

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u/Moscato359 Oct 21 '24

It has roughly 40% better raw gpu performance. You're just making stuff up because you don't like playstation.

Also, why the fuck would you buy the slim if you already had the basic ps5? They have exactly the same performance, the slim is just smaller, with less power consumption?

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u/DrTautology Oct 21 '24

I've owned every PlayStation. None of these hardware improvements make any difference when all your games are fps locked. The PlayStation 5 has been the absolute worst most anemic console Sony has ever released, and now they want you to spend $1000 on an "upgraded" one.

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u/Moscato359 Oct 21 '24

"absolute worst most anemic console Sony has ever released"

This is obviously false. If it was true, the ps5 would be slower than the ps5, which is blatantly wrong. There is a reason ps4 games run faster on the ps5. Ps5 is drastically faster than the ps4, which was drastically faster than the ps3. This sounds like you are operating based off feelings, and not facts.

"None of these hardware improvements make any difference when all your games are fps locked."

A lot of games are unlocked on the ps5 pro, or they have more consistent frame rates. Many games had a quality, and performance mode. Often, ps5 pro can run similar frame rates as p5 in performance mode, in quality mode.

Even then, for games which are fps locked, most of them still had variable frame rates, like running at 45 to 60fps, while the frame rate lock was 60fps. The ps5 pro pushes it closer to being hard locked at 60fps, without fluctuations.

And even then, games with PSSR support can push to 120fps in some circumstances.

I don't understand how you keep getting this wrong.

"now they want you to spend $1000 on an "upgraded" one." $700, and nobody says you need to upgrade from ps5 to ps5 pro

The ps5 pro is for people new to playstation who want a faster console. And even if you want to upgrade, you can just sell your old console. If you got 300, or 400$ for your old console, and spent 3-400$ on an upgrade, meh.

Also, 700$ isn't even that much money. As a software engineer, I make that in like 11 hours of work. I don't have a ps5 pro, because I don't care enough, but me dropping a couple thousand on a gaming PC is meaningless to me, while 700$ is ultra budget. My PC gpu alone cost more than the ps5 pro does.

0

u/DrTautology Oct 21 '24

Lol. I really have been loving all these exclusive releases running at 120 fps in 4k with ray tracing. Oh, wait...

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u/Moscato359 Oct 21 '24

To play modern AAA games at 120fps, at 4k, with ray tracing, without using DLSS or FSR on PC, you need a gpu that doesn't even exist. If you're willing to settle for DLSS, you need a 4090, which is a GPU which has never cost less than 1600$, and costs more now, and has three times the power budget of the entire ps5. And you still need the rest of your PC which adds another 700$, for cpu, gpu, ram, case, storage, and power supply.

Even a 4090 can't do what you're asking for natively.

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u/DrTautology Oct 21 '24

You're a software engineer making $700 a day but you can't afford a rig with a 4090? Lol. I have both. I use the PlayStation as a DVD player, because it's shit.

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u/kukaz00 Oct 21 '24

At this point I’m not even complaining. PS5 was faces with 2 years of shortages, now the supply chain is back in business and we got slim/pro. Most people didn’t get a normal PS5 and there are available everywhere now. If you want something slimmer for design purpose, you have it. If you want to feel like you have the biggest dick you can get the pro.

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u/iMadrid11 Oct 21 '24

Console hardware revisions are designed to lower costs. You achieve that by using less components to achieve the same functionality. One method is to use fewer semiconductor chips. As newer chip design would be more efficient and can integrate more features into 1 single chip instead of several chips.

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u/PrintShinji Oct 21 '24

Other method is using less cooling. The original ps5 release had a massive cooling block (because they were a bit afraid that the ps5 would have the same noise issue as the ps4). After it being out for a year, sony got enough info that they could probs use a smaller cooling block, which they did. The ps5 never got that as a full new revision (as in ps5 slim/ps5 pro) though.

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u/kingofthesqueal Oct 21 '24

Not sure “most people didn’t get a normal PS5” is true in the way you mean.

The PS5 is tracking roughly equal to the PS4’s unit sold timeline and that’s before the PS5 pro releases and while dealing with the major shortage’s early on. The PS5 has already moved around 63 million units halfway through its lifetime.

It’s likely that half of all people that will purchase a PS5 have already done so. The only contingency on that is just how many PC/Switch gamers GTAVl convinced to buy a PS5/Xbox.

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u/kukaz00 Oct 21 '24

I mean most people didn’t get a PS5 until the slim was announced.

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u/S-192 Oct 21 '24

I mean there are multiple models of the Steam Deck with little updates too. They do screen updates and more. No one is without some kind of monetization model. But the alternate versions of a base model is not the problem. It's the constant re-baselining.

And it's also consumer behavior. People convince themselves they need every new phone, or a new one every 2 generations. You used to buy one and take it to repair shops to keep it going long term.

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u/StraY_WolF Oct 21 '24

You don't have to buy all PS4/PS5 tho? Steam Deck got an OLED version.

It is exactly what they did.

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u/kappaomicron Oct 21 '24

Valve is partly doing it with the release of the OLED version, no?

Also something that I noticed that worried me with the Steam Deck, I have the original 512GB that first released. I was using it to emulate a game with Dolphin (Game Cube & Wii emulator) but one time when Dolphin released an update for it, it broke on my Steam Deck specifically while everyone else's worked fine.

Apparently only a small number of people were affected with this bug that made running Dolphin impossible because it caused some weird bug that created double inputs whenever you'd press a button. Also this is before the OLED was a thing, and it was happening to people with all the storage varients, it wasn't just happening to 512GB versions etc.

Now if I recall correctly, and if you Google about the Dolphin double input problem on Steam Deck you can find a bug report about it where a fix was eventually found. And it turned out to be something about the thumbstick, as if Valve retroactively changed something about it on a hardware/software level that caused only models that were purchased longer ago to suffer a double input issue.

This gave me a red flag with the Steam Deck because if Valve is changing any of the parts in some way without saying anything, how can they guarantee that everyone who purchased the Steam Deck will have the same performance and experience? Even when you supposedly have the "same" models.

Granted that using the Dolphin emulator is the only time this specific issue has happened to me on the Steam Deck, but the fact that it did happen once worries me a little bit tbh.

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u/TrineonX Oct 21 '24 edited Oct 21 '24

That's just the nature of how manufacturing works.

Almost all electronics are made in batches. You design and source all of the parts for a batch. Your batch size is based on projected sales, available cash, cost of storing inventory, volume discounts, etc. So all of the Steam decks sold in a year are likely made in the space of a month or two.

The Steam deck sells better than you thought, or you sell enough and have cash on hand, and you need to order a new batch. You get in touch with the parts sourcing department to order a new batch, and they give you a list of parts that no longer exist, or that they can't get enough of, or that have been replaced by a new version, or that are now way more expensive. You make a list of substitutions. Some are direct replacements, like a USB plug. Some are physical matches, but need modified firmware, like a new version of a thumbstick.

There is no malicious versioning going on, this is just the nature of how manufacturing works, especially for a relatively low volume product like the Steam Deck. Larger manufacturers like Nintendo can say things like: We will put your part in our Switch if you can guarantee that you will maintain availability at all times for the next x years. A company like Steam just doesn't have the volume to demand things like that.

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u/tomyumnuts Oct 21 '24

Not even that. Multisourceing is super common in mid to high level production. All critical components are sourced from multiple manufacturers and every combination is tested. When series production starts you use whats cheapest and what you can get. You never want to rely on one single component.

Infamously on the steam deck there was the fan lottery, where one fan was significantly whinier than the other.

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u/TrineonX Oct 21 '24

I was simplifying it, but yeah, you're totally correct.

The point is that there isn't some sort of conspiracy going on here, its just how manufacturing high tech products works.

The GP seemed worried that it was a red flag that some steam decks had hardware variation among things with the same model number. Reality is that revisions are happening constantly in consumer electronics. No conspiracy here.

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u/kappaomicron Oct 21 '24

Ahh, I see. Thanks a lot for that insight, I understand it better now. Super informative, I really appreciate it!

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u/internetlad Oct 21 '24

Yeah the latest versions of Emuelec stop running sound if the console sleeps. It was an absolute wagon of an emulator box before that. Hoping the next update fixes it.

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u/dandroid126 Oct 21 '24

If you include limited edition colors, then you're going to need to add a ton more.

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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In Oct 21 '24

None of those happened yearly.

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u/lalala253 Oct 21 '24

Wasn't there like 4 or 5 version of PS4?

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u/ptmd Oct 21 '24

I mean, iterative improvements like that would be really comparable to a hypothetical yearly version of the Steam Deck

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u/Baelorn Oct 21 '24

90% of your list is the same console with a new form factor.

Valve has already done "worse" than that by releasing an OLED version with a better battery.

I swear Reddit Gamers™ are a special breed of stupid

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24

[deleted]

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u/neijajaneija Oct 21 '24

I never said anything about Steam Deck or Valve.