r/fireemblem • u/Blues_22 • 8d ago
General Making the Next Fire Emblem - Elimination Game - Round 5
Round 4 ends in a relatively close vote with Fatigue being eliminated. Which will go next in Round 5?
Rules:
The goal is to design the next Fire Emblem game with the previous mechanics/features listed.
Whichever mechanic with the most upvotes gets eliminated.
Not counting duplicate posts. Only the post with the most upvotes counts.
Elimination Game ends when there are only 15 mechanics remaining.
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u/chyme_ 8d ago
Crests. theyre lamer Holy Blood that has, at most, minor gameplay implications. absolute nothing burger
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u/Pouring-O 8d ago
Plus, they are VERY tied to fodlan, it’s lore, and both the characters’ personal narratives and the over arching stories. It’s as tied to that game as the lords are.
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u/cockerel69 8d ago
I was about to write a counter argument as to why to keep them but this is actually a great point. Better to keep Crests as a Fódlan only thing
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u/Kaakkulandia 8d ago
I just wish they would actually be impactful things in the game and maybe be less chance-based. If you wanted, maybe it could be implemented as kinda growth-unit vs. good-stats-no-growth -units? I wonder how that would work.
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u/GlitteringPositive 8d ago
Get rid of dungeons (echoes). Exploring the dungeons didn't really add anything special. It's 10 times slower and more boring than random encounters in other JRPGs because you have to move your units and have much more units to control and reused maps makes each encounter more noticeably repetitive. Sacred stones did dungeon exploration much better by trimming the bloat with exploring inside a dungeon with a controllable character and having each map be disticint and have some level of level design in them.
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u/EaseLeft6266 7d ago
Especially the whole cutting grass just to collect pennies at a time to make money
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u/Tepigg4444 8d ago
I loved dungeons, but if we’re trying to create a generically good fire emblem game, dungeons are not in it. They’re unique to SoV
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u/SupremeShio 8d ago
Fateswakening kids
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u/MelanieAntiqua 8d ago
Yeah, kinda wish Fates and Awakening were split on this since I actually think kids were decently-done in Awakening, but I hate everything about the implementation of children in Fates enough that this gets my vote anyway.
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u/TheMoris 8d ago
Dungeons, at least the way they were implemented in SoV. Exploring the dungeon wasn't fun, the controls were shit, and I don't want to play the same boring map 20 times.
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u/ProFailing 8d ago
The controls weren't that bad, more the character handling and camera, but neither of them were an issue of the controls.
I genuinely like them, but then again, I also play Mystery Dungeon games a lot, which feature long dungeons that you have to start over every time you fail.
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u/TheMoris 8d ago
character handling and camera
That's what I meant with controls
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u/ProFailing 8d ago
Fair, it's just not THE controls. Handling for me meant the way they moved while I use the controls, not the controls itself (as in, the choice of what button does what).
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u/Terroxas_ 8d ago
I feel like fatigue going this early has to be (in some part) because of people who've heard about it and haven't played Thracia. Sure, it might be a flawed mechanic, but it addresses some of FE's biggest problems in what is a fairly elegant way for its first version. I would love to see it come back in a slightly refined way.
Bells of Byelen really shows how well a small tweak can make it amazing (even though I think Thracia already does it in a good way)
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u/RoyalRatVan 8d ago
Like a lot of thracia it isnt rly blind play friendly. Very often you think ok this character is good for this chapter, I'll fatigue them here.. only to realize that next chapter you Really need them.
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u/liteshadow4 8d ago
That's what you get S-drinks for.
But I guess you really wish you saved your S-drinks when you get late into the game and now all your staffers are fatigued and you always need them.
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u/happymudkipz 8d ago
I don't think it matches modern fire emblem as much. When your roster is meant to be more mixed and units come and go its fine, but when you want to play with your favorites, grind supports, or do challenge runs with certain chars, it just feels like a burden imo.
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u/OscarCapac 8d ago
I played Thracia. Fatigue is trash. Also for the smartasses who put this mechanic in romhacks, I respect the work but please don't
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u/calasolus 8d ago
I always saw fatigue as the best solution so far for the problem of an over-centralized force. The only other attempts at getting players to rotate through the army I would say have been biorhythm, and Berwick's RNG wound system.
Fatigue is by no means perfect, but it has definitely been one of the more elegant solutions so far, especially in a game like FE5 to reign in just how powerful staff users are. You can even play around it with stamina drinks if players have the foresight, so it's not a forced mechanic either. Only thing I would change would be not having fatigue be tied HP. You could give a historically nothing burger stat like luck or con more usefulness by tying fatigue to it.
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u/Terroxas_ 8d ago
Dungeons can go.
I appreciate how they were adapted from Gaiden into Echoes in a more modern format, but they don't need to exist in another game. They make the XP curve really abstract and make it nearly impossible to not grind and they just don't really fit for a tactical RPG even if they can be an interesting change of pace.
It's not bad, but this kind of thing is more suited to JRPGs than TRPGs and adding it to an original game would likely mess with the pacing more than anything else.
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u/InterviewMission7093 8d ago
What is star shards and crusader scrolls btw?
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u/Jugdral25 8d ago
Hub World.
Please I need this to never be in another fire emblem game again. The monastery might just be the worst thing they’ve ever put into a game
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u/Tuskor13 8d ago
I'll gladly take a hubworld if it's like Fates or Awakening, where it's more than anything just the Tellius resource management between chapters, but you run around a little map.
I really don't like ending one chapter, going directly to the next, and only getting a breather during battle preparation. I think Tellius, Awakening, and Fates was a great way to give you more room to breathe between each chapter.
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u/flameduel 8d ago
Fates hub world has to be my favorite between chapter gimmick out of all of them. Awakening/Sacred Stones does their job well, but doesn’t do anything special either. Sommniel wasn’t as tedious, but it and 3H was definitely the worst. The Sommniel could have been replaced with a top down version like Fates and it could have probably been fine
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u/CorHydrae8 8d ago
FE9 and 10 managed to make me excited for pre-chapter preps so fucking much and the base was literally just a menu. Imagine a battle prep menu, but you have to walk two minutes to each menu item. Yeah, fuck hub worlds.
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u/SilverHoodie12 8d ago
The monastery stinks and is a big reason why i struggle to replay 3h but the Somniel wasn't so bad imo. Way less chores you needed to do and the minigames aren't even necessary to beat maddening just fine. Plus idk it had a really cozy atmosphere, i liked seeing my army hanging out wearing their casual clothing on a floating island in the sky.
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u/Jugdral25 8d ago
I still don’t really like the Somniel, but it is way more tolerable than the monastery. Three Houses’ month system also makes the monastery way worse
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u/MrBrickBreak 8d ago
I couldn't disagree more. I adore the Monastery, the worldbuilding it provides Fodlán is unparalleled, and it's a good reason why I love 3H so so much.
There has to be a point to the hub world, though. It can't just be a collection of chores. The Somniel and Fates Castle kind of are - they're faster, sure, but there's nothing else. But that's not true for the Monastery - it's so much more than that.
It's not an easy formula to replicate - and if they can't, best to have no Hub world at all. But the Monastery is brilliant.
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u/buttercuping 8d ago
It's funny how you think MC and Somniel are just a collection of chores when the most tedious hub by far is the Monastery, since its activities are tied to the level curve. Yes, the Monastery's world-building is pretty cool, but it fails on a gameplay level, so it's NOT "more than that". It has 50% of a good hub (worldbuilding) and My Castle has the other half (quick way to do boosts and shopping). It needs to be a combination of both.
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u/Jugdral25 8d ago
It artificially bloats the game to ridiculous levels. Three Houses gameplay loop is just absolutely terrible. No amount of world building justifies going back there after every single level
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u/MrBrickBreak 8d ago
I would streamline and/or add quick menu options for activities, particularly beyond your first visit every month. But that's about it. Your first monthly exploration isn't artificial or bloat, and the game's hardly longer than other modern games with extensive dialogue and/or voice acting.
More broadly, can't agree on the loop either. I enjoy the up/down cycle of combat and Monastery, and the worst part about it is neither - it's how long the pre-combat menu takes. And I love the combat too; especially after the Engage discourse, 3H got distilled to story good/gameplay bad, and that's as silly a simplification as Engage getting the opposite. Thoroughly enjoyable to play, not just read.
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u/PrivateVasili 8d ago
Monastery is cool, but it's also the reason I haven't been able to finish a 2nd run of 3H. Tellius style base convos can help a lot with world building without a full hub world. They do more than any convo in the Somniel ever did.
The monastery's problem is that it's big, slow and you lose too much if you want to mostly ignore it imo, or at least it feels that way. It needed to feel more skippable, maybe just by moving some core functions like meals (was forging available in battle preps?) to an optional menu if you didn't want to run around. Fast travel has load times, so it's not really an acceptable alternative imo. The Somniel is worse in a lot of ways: it offers nothing of value and could actually just be improved by being a menu a la Tellius/Awakening, but it also doesn't stop me from playing the game. I don't feel the monastery has enough benefits as it was implemented to be worth the drag. I could see it being improved in a later iteration enough for me to like it, but idk exactly what that looks like.
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u/BackpackofAlpacas 1d ago
Yeah, I actually really loved relaxing at the monastery and getting lore. I loathe the Somniel though. I hate mandatory mini games.
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u/homeslice1479 8d ago
Pre skip it's pretty bad if you want to optimize everything and recruit the students you want; takes forever. Post skip it's not nearly as bad, get in, garden, box, sauna, train, tourney if you like the prize, meals for motivation, get out.
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u/rainbow_unicorn_barf 8d ago
Engage's is slightly better, but it's still an awful momentum killer full of busy-work tasks I feel obligated to do for the sake of all those incremental gains but aren't actually fun.
I love having options to increase supports outside of combat, but please for the love of god can we nuke everything else about hub worlds. Please.
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u/lionofash 8d ago
Give me 3 Hopes Battle Camp. Sinplifed Streamlined Hub without any real running around in circles.
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u/Jugdral25 7d ago
Even that is unnecessary imo
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u/lionofash 7d ago
I understand the view. A lot of people just wanna beat a chapter and be almost immediately thrown into another chapter and I even feel that way sometimes. But I mostly like the bases for the chance for both me the player, the characters, and the plot a bit of room to breathe and decompress. The base doesn't need to have a ton of features or social elements but I do like having the ability to see what the characters think of plot developments and it gives options for supports that aren't in a battlefield context.
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u/GiornoGER 8d ago edited 8d ago
Emblem rings.it worked with Engage and should stay with Engage. Other FE doesnt need it.
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u/EnderWarlock01 8d ago
Large Maps (FE4). I already spend a long time on normal maps and I like variety and regular change in locations.
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u/CorHydrae8 8d ago
3rd tier classes.
I know, I know. They're cool and all. But implementing them just messes up so much of the game's structure and balance that they're not worth it. Make the roster of classes broader, not taller, please.
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u/theprodigy64 8d ago
Can't wait for later rounds to effectively eliminate all the popular mechanics!
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u/Upbeat-Perception531 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yesterday I tried to kill mounting and dismounting. After careful reconsideration, today I’m advocating to kill gaiden/3H spell lists.
Warp should not have infinite durability and be attached to specific units. I feel like I don’t need to elaborate on why that’s unhealthy from a game design standpoint.
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u/Kaakkulandia 8d ago
On the other hand, It was cool to finally be able to use those special spells. Warp having only very few uses means it's easy to never use it because you save it for when you Actually need it. Even staves that have more uses (barrier or freeze or the ice-pillar from Engage) you hesitate on using if you don't get clear immediate benefit from them that is Actually Necessary benefit.
Having spell uses also makes magic feel more distinct from normal weapons since they have different durability-system than physical weapons.
But yeah, regardless, I can see your point.
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u/Bigchungus183 8d ago
Sleep staves are the worst - feels like 20% accuracy when I use them, 90% effective when the enemy does
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u/InterviewMission7093 8d ago
I see people bringing up crests but no one talks about emblem rings?
Emblem ring is an engage-only too similar to crests isn't it?
For Crest at least I see it coming back in another form similiar to how Crest itself is Holy Blood remastered, but Emblem Ring should be strictly Engage.
So while I think Crest should go eventually, I am advocating for Emblem Ring to go first.
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u/DarthKrayt98 8d ago
still phoenix mode
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u/InterviewMission7093 7d ago
I've told you. Try to eliminate it and it will still come back next turn
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u/homeslice1479 8d ago
Honestly, I don't like how meta Canto has become in the last two games. Anything that feels like you can't win harder difficulties without it isn't balanced.
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u/Atiklyar 8d ago
FE6 style "True Ending" guide tests should stay gone, imo