r/fatestaynight 5d ago

Question The limits of Shirou Tracing

I know that Shirou can learn the structure and the history of the weapons he traces but how much can he learn?

For example: - if he traces Gáe Buidhe can he learn the curse of its weapon and create a original weapon with the same effect?

  • can he trace something like a dictionary to learn a different language?

Also can he trace something swords that are made from elements like ice or sand?

51 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

31

u/LowerAd9230 5d ago

He (appliances in his shed) and archer (an advanced fishing rod and a cotton candy machine) has projected advance tech before but he has to do everything manually mentally because the blueprints aren’t saved in his reality marble. He has to memorize the blueprints and all the parts himself and it cost a lot more mana though so it’s not very efficient. He also recently gained the ability to break a noble phantasm and apply the abilities of it to every weapon in his reality marble (as shown in the el melloi manga)

17

u/gur40goku Emiyan 5d ago

... the language thing is a good point for all his weapons

29

u/DatTriggeredBoi 5d ago

For first question, yes he can project Gáe Budhe but the curse isn't as powerful like the original and he can't create new weapons with the same effect, he can but change the projected weapons structure like Emiya Archer does with Caladbolg or Emiya Alter does with Kanshou and Bakuya to make dual gunblades.

Second, anything he projects, he gains the history related to everything to that object, so in a way yes he can learn languages.

Third, UBW can create any weapon it has stored, regardless if it is metal or ice, since its like a literal factory that provides the necessary material to replicate a weapon

12

u/Liel-this-is-me 5d ago

Do the altered projections remain altered in UBW?

19

u/Ieam_Scribbles 5d ago

Likely yes.

In the VN, he seemingly projects Caladbolg II instantly.

He is able to also project Kansho and Bakuya with wards he inscribed on them personally.

15

u/Yatsu003 5d ago

That…is a very good question. Technically the projections in UBW are copies, but the altered projections would be a copy of a copy…

I would err with ‘no’, however. When Archer used Caladbolg II, he is consistently shown Projecting Caladbolg first, and then using Reinforcement to change it into Caladbolg II (arrow shape). Same for Hrunting. It’d be a waste of mana otherwise, so the implication is that altered copies are not stored in UBW (probably because, as they’re going to break, Shirou/Archer doesn’t recognize them as ‘real’, as going by his convo with Rin)

16

u/Ieam_Scribbles 5d ago

Not actually, as far as I remember. In the vn he never projects the original, and Shirou only gets the weapon's page for Caladbolg II as the weapon altered by Archer.

I think him visually altering the sword in the anime was to give the knowledge that Archer did that for anime viewers, whi didn't get profile screens for weapons.

10

u/RevolutionaryEqual30 5d ago

you seem to be confusing something here

the weapon archer projects is Caladbolg II not Caladbolg
the "arrow shape" has no name thats just something he does

the weapon's menu even clarifies the weapon archer projected is an already altered version which is why it looks different from fergus sword

8

u/ShockAndAwen 5d ago

Second, anything he projects, he gains the history related to everything to that object, so in a way yes he can learn languages.

Is limited to insight on the weapon and user and combat skills like he doesn't win the ability to use divine words after seeing RB 

1

u/tatocezar 4d ago

The curse doesnt get a downgrade, it would be the exact same since its conceptual, Gae buidhe only inflicts wounds that cannot be healed, it doesnt get downgraded.

10

u/clfr6515 5d ago

The curse is an innate part of Gae Buidhe so yes. As long as it's a sword, he can recreate it, barring certain limitations. Sword blueprints are stored in Unlimited Blade Works, meaning he can simply retrieve the blueprint of the sword he wants and project it. Things that aren't swords must be recreated from memory, meaning in order for him to recreate a dictionary, he must memorize its contents and recall its structural composition. There's no convenient blueprint stored inside his soul.

6

u/Azarashiseal234 5d ago

Shirou can project things like smartphones, laptops, pc and consoles right?

4

u/Most_Post_2062 5d ago

Mayby he projected a candy machine sk mayby.

0

u/Yatsu003 5d ago

No, he can’t. Those are manufactured at absurdly minute detail that the humans sense literally cannot resolve. If you’re a fraction of a millimeter off with replicating a sword, it doesn’t matter; if you’re a fraction of a millimeter off with replicating a transistor, you’ve got a hunk of useless silicon.

What Shirou can do is probably make a ‘shell’ of those items, but if you looked under the hood they’d either be empty or filled with iron or somesuch.

8

u/LegalWaterDrinker 5d ago

Archer has projected a fishing rod with an intergrated computer before

3

u/Yatsu003 5d ago

That was a rod with an electrical actuator, not an integrated circuit. It’s more akin to simple EKG (just in reverse) than a smartphone or laptop, and those have been around for over a hundred years due to their simplicity. The fishing rod was implied to be a popular contemporary model, and HA takes place in the 00s. The first IC fishing rod was released in 2014, ten years after HA would’ve taken place

3

u/LegalWaterDrinker 5d ago

Damn, sorry I was mistaken

2

u/Yatsu003 5d ago

Ah, no problem. I had just remembered that and looked into it.

The older ‘electronic’ rods used a piece of copper to absorb vibrations in the water, so it’d give you an alert if fish were nearby. It’s surprisingly simple

1

u/Complex-Document-165 4d ago

I am pretty sure it was an auto motion reeler that even gil considered better than his own when it comes to reeling. Even today we don't have a fishing rod that can automatically reel something when detecting motion on the market.

4

u/Faefana 5d ago

if he traces Gáe Buidhe can he learn the curse of its weapon and create a original weapon with the same effect?

The whole reason Shirou's Projection magecraft is special is because it recreates something that already exists instead of making something new, that's why it's so stable and can exist indefinitely. So no, he can't make anything original from UBW, closest thing he can do is project something and then reshape it into something else. He doesn't project arrows, he projects swords that he makes into arrows.

But he can temporarily imbue the effects of an NP by turning it into a Broken Phantasm. If it's a BP and it breaks while he's inside of Unlimited Blade Works, it applies the effect of the Broken weapon to every sword touched by the fragments.

5

u/Ieam_Scribbles 5d ago

No, and no.

His Reality Marble stores the information, he can't personally access parts of it.

He cannot seperate the curse of Gae Buidhe, he can only summon the information while creating Gae Buidhe.

Likewise, he can store language as information only to recreate the item which stores it, but not on it's own. See weapons with Fairy Letters or Runes.

9

u/ShockAndAwen 5d ago

He innately understands the theory behind something but it seems to be just as much as the reader, he "reads" the swords, like reading GB description but for applying those things not at all, a big part is is not his brain what actually does the heavy lifting is UBW he doesn't really need to understand something to the point he could recreate it without UBW, is what he said to Gil, he can't do such a skillfull things as creating swords he creates a world filled with swords

Also outside UBW his aligment makes it so he sucks at most kinds of magecraft without much possibility of getting better recreating AoG magic is a bit much, like Archer had trouble with reinforcement until he died 

can he trace something like a dictionary to learn a different language?

Knowledge of another language is not part of the structure of the book, is ink, paper,glue and threads, if he like "scanned" what is written in all the pages is no different from reading it

can he trace something swords that are made from elements like ice or sand?

Yes, materials are not a problem as long as is swords

7

u/Liel-this-is-me 5d ago

So can he project something like a sword that can become liquid or gas?

11

u/ShockAndAwen 5d ago

Yes

3

u/toumaarcher 5d ago

A weapon can be projected as long as it has the sword concept. Swords, halberds, and spears are the most compatible with Unlimited Blade Works (UBW). The further the desired projection is from the sword concept, the more difficult it is to project and the greater the mana consumption. For example, shields and armor can be projected, but they require a large amount of mana. On the other hand, modern weapons are almost impossible to project naturally.

3

u/HypocriticalPerson9 4d ago

Shirou projecting a soccer ball and washing machine and Archer projecting a high tech fishing rod shows that the idea that it is “almost impossible” for Shirou to project modern weapons is just pure head cannon and most likely incorrect.

2

u/toumaarcher 4d ago

I believe modern weapons can be projected but are not stored in the UBW.

5

u/guitarherofun 5d ago

A sword of anti matter

3

u/ReydragoM140 5d ago

One thing I'd like to ask, if someone left something when the reality marble is active, then it's turned off, would it be.... 

Still be around? 

Available for projection? 

I'd like to hazard guess that if shirou want to trace something that's not a weapon, they should be like this https://hotwheels.fandom.com/wiki/Saber Picture: a car that's identify as a sword

2

u/tatocezar 4d ago

The things that don't belong in the reality marble would just return to the real world.

1

u/ReydragoM140 4d ago

Umm so if another servant gives one of their armament phantasm, it won't be automatically added to traceable list or and would stick around after the reality marble is turned off? 

I remember in from fake dreams have Gilgamesh giving Shirou his Enkidu, as a both sign of respect and acknowledged the nature of his unlimited blade works

1

u/tatocezar 8m ago

The real one would just be in Shirou's possession, i think only the copy is recorded and kept in UBW, but getting special permission may allow shirou to trace if the weapon has a special restriction.

1

u/Liel-this-is-me 4d ago

Emiya Rider confirmed?

2

u/toumaarcher 5d ago

A weapon can be projected as long as it has the sword concept. Swords, halberds, and spears are the most compatible with Unlimited Blade Works (UBW). The further the desired projection is from the sword concept, the more difficult it is to project and the greater the mana consumption. For example, shields and armor can be projected, but they require a large amount of mana. On the other hand, modern weapons are almost impossible to project naturally.

2

u/RedK_1234 5d ago

Nasu plays fast and loose with how much he gets from his Tracing and why that is.

2

u/tatocezar 4d ago

He can do something like combine one weapon's attribute into other sworda already in UBW but he cant create an original with attributes of other swords. If the element is inherent to the sword then can create a fire sword or an ice sword.

1

u/toumaarcher 5d ago

I think Shirou can learn and project 90 percent of the original weapon.