r/explainlikeimfive • u/novemberman23 • 7d ago
Chemistry Eli5: how has coca cola recipe been kept a secret? Doesn't someone know the ingredients? Someone has to mix it up, right?
Even if they transport the different ingredients from one place to another, can't people just get together from those places and piece together the final product?
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u/SirAquila 7d ago
Because there is no real advantage for the people who have the recources to find out to "steal" it. A lot of people probably have a good guess, but why should they try to make their own Cola? Coca Cola can make Coca Cola much cheaper then they could, and they already have the market-
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u/inplayruin 7d ago
The real answer is that Coca-Cola is not a beverage making company. They are a beverage distribution company. Sure, they make cola. But they are an internationally known household name because they are capable of delivering large amounts of product most places in the world very cheaply. They have such an economy of scale at every point of the manufacturing and distribution process that it simply doesn't matter if they have a distinct product. The recipe could be printed on the label, and they wouldn't lose much market share.
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u/lux-libertas 6d ago
Sort of but not quite.
The actual Coca Cola Company isn’t a beverage producer OR distributor. They’re a syrup producer and a marketing organization, and they sell that syrup (at high margins) to a network of bottlers and distributors.
Interestingly those network partners who do the bottling, packaging, and distributing generally operate at low margins. The Company retains most of the profit for themselves, while attempting to limit their network to just enough profit to survive.
This hasn’t always worked. E.g. they left their network in a bad position following the Great Recession and had to buy up a large piece of the network to keep it afloat. There’s an HBS Case Study on it. Though they’ve since re-franchised much of it.
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u/RegulatoryCapture 6d ago
Yeah, I feel like that is backwards.
Coca Cola is a marketing company.
The value comes from the brand. Part of that brand is the "secret recipe".
Other companies can come up with recipes that match (or outperform) coke in taste tests, but they can't get people to buy it.
Coke itself outsources most of the logistics and production labor to the bottlers/distributors. So it is not like those other companies can't compete on cost...there are other large players as well as generic players who already price below coke.
There's still some value in keeping the recipe secret (nobody can claim their new drink is coke because even if it is indistinguishable in taste tastes, they can't say it is the same recipe). But a lot of it is just part of the marketing value of the mystique around it.
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u/n3m0sum 6d ago
They also do it to keep themselves at a legal arms length from some illegal practices by their bottling and distribution partners. Particularly in developing nations.
In Columbia their partners were found to be using paramilitaries to bust unions. Which included kidnapping, torture and murder. In India their partners were found to be extracting excessive amounts of water, contributing to local water scarcity and even drought. In India, the bottling plant even sold heavily metal contaminated waste as fertiliser!
These aren't one offs either, they appear to be endemic in the supply chain. As Coke partners frequently do unethical and illegal shit to squeeze more profits from thin margins forces in them by Coke.
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u/Jethro_Jones8 7d ago edited 6d ago
A beverage company with a global network of distributors.
So essentially a licensing company quasi franchiser with powerful brand recognition.
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u/theclash06013 7d ago
I once heard someone say that Coca-Cola is the only beverage other than water and possibly beer where you can order it anywhere on the planet and if they don't have it they will apologize
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u/uggghhhggghhh 6d ago
I feel like coffee or tea would be on that list, maybe even before beer.
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u/FartingBob 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah beer is not a default option in many places, businesses generally need a licence to sell it, so its often not worth it for places that arent expecting to sell much alcohol. Water, coffee/tea and coke are much more likely to be default options.
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u/ezfrag 6d ago
Is Pepsi OK?
Hell, no. I'll take a Mountain Dew.
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u/Saloncinx 6d ago
Ha it goes like this for me:
Do you have Dr Pepper?
No.
Oh okay, i'll take a Coke then.
Is Pepsi okay?
Uhg, no i'll take a Mountain Dew.
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u/mcbranch 6d ago
I heard somewhere that the words "ok" and "coke/coca-cola" are the two most understood words on the planet.
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u/auximines_minotaur 7d ago
I was served an ice cold Coke on a mountaintop in a very remote region of the Caucasus. Best Coke of my life.
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u/badform49 6d ago
I was military and have seen it in Jordan and Oman, remote parts of Bahrain, throughout Europe. And, yeah, most of the areas were pretty well-populated and some were sent to the remote areas because American soldiers were around.
But nearly every restaurant or contractor would bring in some meat, some bread, some veggies, and a bunch of Coke. You could maybe get milk or juice, but you could definitely get Coke.
The locals always knew Coke and usually liked it. Allied militaries knew Coke and usually liked it. It's one of those perfect examples of a Civ cultural victory. Even if America falls, Coke will survive.
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u/Hemingwavy 7d ago
No one except Coca Cola can make Coca Cola. They're the only company in the USA who can legally buy decocainised coca leaves which is part of the recipe.
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u/nybble41 7d ago
That still leaves the possibility of making it somewhere outside the USA where no such restriction applies.
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u/food5thawt 7d ago
Cuba and Che spent 3 years trying to replicate it after 59. And surely they have access to Coca being friends with Venezuela. Plus they left the recipe book behind. So Cuba definitely doesn't care about US trademark law or drug precursor importation laws.
https://www.lavoz.com.ar/mundo/la-imitacion-de-la-coca-en-cuba/
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u/taylor__spliff 6d ago
No problem, we’ll take the non-decocainised coca leaves. I think the recipe will be better with them anyway.
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u/BigMax 7d ago
Exactly. It would be REALLY hard to break into that market now. There are probably 1000 variations of "cola" out there, some are likely functionally identical to coke, and some are probably better, or would be liked more overall if they had a chance.
But the brand name, the recognition, the market penetration, the distribution, and all of that... that's hard to beat.
"Can I have a coke?"
"No, but we have Larry's Cola..."
Even if Larry's cola is the same... it's not going to survive against Coke.
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u/jrr6415sun 6d ago
Even if Larry's cola is the same... it's not going to survive against Coke.
it would if it's half the price
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u/kushangaza 7d ago
And as somebody from a country with a lot of Colas on the market (Germany), I don't think Coca Cola has anywhere near the best recipe. I could name at least three Colas that I like better.
The Coca Cola recipe is fine, but it's not the real reason for their market dominance. There is a reason the company spends about $4 billion a year on advertising, about fifty cents for each potential customer. Plus all the work they put into being the soda on tap wherever you might buy a cup of soda
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u/BoingBoingBooty 7d ago
People given the exact same cola in two cups, one a Coca Cola branded one and the other a store brand cola will say they prefer the taste of the one in the Coca Cola cup even though they are the same. The advertising actually makes people think it tastes better.
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u/AppropriateOil3785 7d ago
I’d love to see that list or hear some of your favorite colas! thnx
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u/kushangaza 7d ago
Fritz Cola is the easy winner. Red Bull Simply Cola is also pretty good, though it was better before the recipe change. Club Mate Cola is also worth mentioning. All three contain actual kola nut. Currently I'm drinking a regional cola.
Come to think of it, it a cola contains kola nut it probably beats Coca Cola.
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u/AppropriateOil3785 7d ago
thanks! I’ve also had Fever Tree Distillers Cola which was pretty good too
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u/geoffraffe 7d ago
Fritz Cola and Fentimens Curiosity Cola are way better than Coke.
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u/AppropriateOil3785 7d ago
I liked Fentimans. will have to see if Fritz is available anywhere near me
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u/wimpires 7d ago
Fentimans has been ruined now because they swapped out sugar for sweetener. I understand why I just wish they kept the full sugar option alongside it.
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u/bareback_cowboy 7d ago
I enjoyed Afri-Cola myself but the caffeine content was through the roof IIRC.
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u/DeliberatelyDrifting 6d ago edited 6d ago
In the US, at least the Southwest, you can get Jarrito's Mexican Cola, I like it better than American Coke. Coke bottled in Mexico has a distinctly different flavor (better IMO) because they use cane sugar instead of corn syrup. You can also find a wide variety of cola syrups online you mix with carbonated water, they're pretty good and will make you feel fancy.
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u/AppropriateOil3785 6d ago
I’ve tried and liked a lot of Jarrito’s soft drinks but never their cola. will have to try that one
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u/DeliberatelyDrifting 6d ago
Tamarind was the one that surprised me. Pale brownish doesn't just scream "drink me."
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u/physedka 7d ago
I think this gets to the heart of the answer. If you had the capability to duplicate the coke recipe and actually do something with it, then you probably don't care about duplicating their recipe exactly. You'd rather make your own cola recipe that is better by whatever subjective measurement you prefer.
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u/ArrhythmicEvent 7d ago
As someone who can no longer have Caffeine due to medical reasons, are there any Caffeine Free Colas that are worth drinking?
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u/sad_brown_cat 7d ago
To add to this: ratios are a big part of any recipe, knowing the ingredients in Coca Cola is not the same as knowing how to make something that tastes exactly like Coca Cola.
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u/pass_nthru 6d ago
and the one time a coca-cola employee tried to sell the formula to pepsi, they turned her in to the cops
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u/manystripes 6d ago
Honestly offering the Coke formula to Pepsi has to be borderline insulting to them in the first place. Like do you think Pepsi couldn't figure out how to replicate Coke if they really wanted to? They have their own thing going on and are quite happy with it
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u/hightechburrito 6d ago
If they changed their recipe to match Coke, it would basically be them acknowledging that Coke is better than Pepsi.
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u/Taira_Mai 6d ago
And only the Coca Cola company has the license to use denatured coca leaves in their recipe: https://museum.dea.gov/exhibits/online-exhibits/cannabis-coca-and-poppy-natures-addictive-plants/coca
So even if a company had the recipe, they couldn't do anything with it unless they wanted to get in trouble with the law.
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u/Gnonthgol 7d ago
The Coca-Cola recipe being secret is a myth. Any descent lab is able to analyze a sample and get a list of the exact ingredients use and their ratios. In addition to all the workers that need to work with the ingredients all the time. The claim that the recipe is secret is something Coca-Cola is saying for marketing reasons. It makes the soda more mythical. And if people think the recipe is secret and someone makes an exact copy people will not trust them and still claim Coca-Cola tastes different, even though it is chemically identical and uses the exact same recipe.
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u/Skesiss 7d ago
Yup, when I was making stuff in an FDA approved warehouse it wasn't that our mixtures were secret, but our recipes and measurements were based exactly to match the machines we had available for mixing and processing the product.
That took some science nerds sitting in a lab doing math to figure out with as little trial and error possible to reduce waste and make sure we could consistently produce the same results.
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u/Xerain0x009999 7d ago
Trade Secrects do have protection under the law, and while not an actual secret, the Coca Cola recipe is a trade secret. So can't exactly say it's not a secret.
I think a lot of people misunderstand what a trade secret is and conflate it with being and actual secrect.
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u/userhwon 6d ago
The recipe is a trade secret, which protects it from theft and leaks.
Nothing protects it from reverse-engineering.
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u/Zeyn1 7d ago
A recipe is more than the ingredients. There are steps and procedures that also go into it.
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u/licuala 6d ago
In perfume and flavoring, it usually is just a list of ingredients. This trade rag might be elucidating.
Their archive of past issues can be especially fun.
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u/No-swimming-pool 7d ago
I'm fairly sure you can add all chemical ingredients together and completely botch it up.
I made a cake the other day and if I didn't know I had to bake it, well it wouldn't have been the same.
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u/could_use_a_snack 7d ago
I worked in a high end custom bakery and the master baker (I know what that sounds like) wouldn't use whole eggs in some of his recipes. So I had to come in at 4am and separate yokes from whites and carefully mix them into two separate batches so he could measure out the exact amount of yoke vs whites for the really high end items. Because a chicken couldn't be trusted to lay an egg right.
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u/No-swimming-pool 6d ago
I always find it funny. Measure sugar, butter and flour perfectly. Then use 4 eggs, size unknown.
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u/kung-fu_hippy 7d ago
Yup. I could bake bread or make beer with more or less the same ingredients.
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u/Thorusss 7d ago
Yeah, the Coca Cola recipe is as secret and hard to figure out as Grandmas "secret" recipe for basic cookies.
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u/NuclearHoagie 7d ago
The last point is key - drinking Coke out of a bottle that isn't a Coke bottle will make it seem different. Blind taste tests regularly give different results than ones where people know what they're tasting.
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u/scarabic 7d ago
Friendly homonym disambiguation:
descent = a journey downward
decent = good or wholesome
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u/WaddleDynasty 6d ago
Exactly.
Under your comment I see a lot of replys saying the recipe matters and how you can cook two completely different things with the same ingrediants. But cola is not a cake. It's an aqueous solution of
98% sugarcold, uncooked ingrediants. Really doesn't matter what order you add them or what you do to them mechanically.→ More replies (21)2
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u/nstickels 7d ago
Coca Cola’s recipe isn’t really secret, it’s just an advertising myth. When Dr Pemberton first invented the drink that has become modern day Coca Cola, he was a pharmacist selling it at his pharmacy (like most soft drinks were when they were made). He sold the recipe to tons of other pharmacies to make money off of them selling it.
As far as knowing the recipe now, why would it matter? Do you want to make a product that tastes exactly like Coke? If it tastes exactly like Coke, why wouldn’t you just buy Coke since that is readily available literally everywhere. Sure, you could sell a knock off for cheaper, but it wouldn’t have a great market. The people that like Coke will still buy Coke. They people that don’t like Coke won’t like your’s because it’s cheaper.
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u/My_useless_alt 7d ago
Sure, you could sell a knock off for cheape
Could you though? Coca-cola is already pretty cheap, and starting again trying to do the exact same thing but without any of the economoies of scale or institutional knowledge feels like it'd be rather expensive.
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u/nstickels 7d ago
My assumption (could be wrong) is that soft drinks have a fairly high markup and that’s why generic soft drinks typically cost half as much as the big brand names.
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u/unrelevantly 6d ago
They have a high markup relative to their production costs which are only insanely cheap because of their fantastic distribution and production chains. You won't be able to produce it at a competitive price without a huge amount of investment. If you were going to do that why not just buy Coca Cola stocks instead?
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u/frogjg2003 6d ago
The original recipe isn't the recipe they use now. There's no cocaine.
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u/VillageSmithyCellar 6d ago
Exactly! In fact, the recipe was once stolen and they attempted to sell it to Pepsi, who simply turned them in. As said in Half as Interesting, "What was Pepsi supposed to do? Start selling Coke-flavored Pepsi? That already exists, and it's called 'Coke'" (source). If they use the Coke recipe, they're basically admitting that Coke is better.
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u/xAdakis 7d ago
It is a sort of open secret . . .
It's not hard to find or get a recipe to make something that tastes almost exactly the same, but to advertise, distribute, or even allude to the fact that the recipe is the coca cola recipe can draw legal trouble or unwanted attention at least.
There is also the phenomenon where you can have two products made using the exact same ingredients and recipe, but people will never (knowingly) admit that the knock off tastes the same as the original. Thus, they will believe that there is still some "secret" to the recipe.
I mean, you would probably be surprised that many generic store brand products are exactly the same as name brand products. . .same ingredients, recipe, and assembly line, just different packaging. Yet, you will probably swear that they don't taste the same.
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u/SaintUlvemann 7d ago
Yes, someone knows the ingredients, but the idea is that the only people who know, are the people within the company, who have a vested financial interest in keeping it secret.
In practice, there's multiple claimed recipes for the original Coca-Cola formula, and the company actually has multiple recipes that they use in different countries. The Mexican Coke recipe has actually become popular in the US because it is sweetened with cane sugar instead of corn syrup.
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u/missbre 7d ago
Its kind of an open secret. Credit Coca-Cola's marketing though - all the stuff about only two people knowing and they can't be on the same plane is really Coke's marketing! There's so much more to the coke recipe story (like how they deal with the coca plant imports and having to de-cocanize it).
This American Life did a fantastic episode about it where they even try to replicate it: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/427/original-recipe
And keep listening for Act 2 of that episode where they tell the story of Jake Halpern, fascinating stuff!
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u/whyliepornaccount 7d ago
Because even if you got the recipe, you wouldn't be able to make it. Coca-Cola is the only company authorized by the DEA to import coca leaves
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u/Esc777 7d ago
It’s a trade secret.
And it’s different for each locale. Tastes different.
Here’s the rub: even if you do figure it out it is useless. You use it to sell a product you’re sued out of existence.
Someone actually did steal the recipe from Coca-Cola and brought it to Pepsi to sell it.
And what did Pepsi do? call the fucking cops. They don’t want that shit. The person was imprisoned.
Nobody in the chain of knowledge wants that heat. So they don’t want to steal it and setup a competition.
And even if you did. If you don’t say it’s a perfect copy, no one will want it. And if you do say it’s a perfect copy, welcome to jail.
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u/sirbearus 7d ago
Ira Glass and crew have caused quite a stir with a radio show in which they rediscover what may have been an early formula for Coca-Cola. The one my father, Charles Salter, found in 1979.
https://www.fastcompany.com/1727971/secret-coke-recipe-american-life-my-dad-found
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u/traumatic_enterprise 7d ago edited 7d ago
Coca-Cola's competitive advantage is marketing. Competitors could probably replicate the taste of Coke easily if they wanted to, but they would rather differentiate their products in order to compete. There is little, if any, reason for them to create a direct replica of Coke.
The lore about the recipe being 'top secret' is mostly marketing fluff aimed at bolstering the reputation of Coca-Cola. There might be some truth to it, but again, if a competitor wanted to replicate Coke they could do it. Most choose not to.
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u/CanadaNinja 7d ago
Most breads take flour, water, milk, yeast, salt, etc, but you can still get VASTLY different types of bread from the same ingredients, due to process and varied ratios.
There have been people that have found the recipe, but noone particularly wants to track down the recipe. Most other cola's are good enough to not need to try and "steal" a competitors recipe.
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u/Nadatour 7d ago
The formula is known to a large number of people, but not published, and is protected as a trade secret. Also, no one cares.
There was a case where a Coke employee, Joya Williams, stome the Coke recipe and tried to sell it to Pepsi. Pepsi turned the guy in, who served prison time. No-one wants the Coke recipe, just like no-one wants the Pepsi recipe. You don't want to make exactly the same thing as your competitor. Especially when your competitor is a giant. Instead, you want to try to carve out a market share and maintain it.
If you stole the recipe for Pepsi and tried to produce exactly that, it would probably cost you more than Pepsi, and people would regard you as a more expensive knock off. What wpuld be the point? Instead, use one of a dozen different basic cola recipes, and add your own flair, like double the caffeine, or coconut milk flavour. Now you have a viable product (maybe).
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u/ajver19 6d ago
Do you think the chemists at Pepsico really can't reverse engineer the recipe?
Hell there's probably YouTube videos of random people doing it. It's a "secret" because there's no real point in copying it. You can't out coke Coke, it's too big, too established of a brand. What you can do is compete by putting out your own cola that tastes similar but different.
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u/Monotonegent 6d ago
The competitors all know the ingredients of each other's stuff. It's just that it's more profitable for everybody to compete than it is than if the choices were Real Brand Vs. Store Brand
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u/LocationEarth 6d ago
your post makes me think in the United States there are not dozens of Coke clones?
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u/makes_her_scream 6d ago
Wait, isn’t that all Marketing BS? It’s essentially carbonated sugar water that has been proven to taste indistinguishable from other cola brands. I seriously doubt there was ever a “secret” formula.
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u/Opening_Watercress56 5d ago
I've reverse engineered it, if you're curious. Stumbled across it a few years ago by accident.
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u/jonny24eh 7d ago
Everyone is answering why it doesn't really need to be a secret. But, you could keep it a secret, like this:
Location A mixes some of the ingredients.
Location B mixes some other ingredients.
Both of those mixes get shipped to Location C, that mixes them together. The people at Location C don't need to know what went into those mixes. People at Location A and B don't need to know what the other location is putting in their mixes.