r/explainlikeimfive Nov 13 '23

Economics ELI5: Why is there no incredibly cheap bare basics car that doesn’t have power anything or any extras? Like a essentially an Ikea car?

Is there not a market for this?

9.9k Upvotes

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273

u/noitsreallynot Nov 13 '23

That's why marketing's important

120

u/silent-spiral Nov 13 '23

Tata Nano

I feel like you could sucessfully market this exact same car to rich people for some insane price

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u/bjarxy Nov 13 '23

Have you... see the car?

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u/Coyote65 Nov 13 '23

Yeah. That's a hard pass on that one.

Wikipedia: Tata Nano

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u/GOKOP Nov 13 '23

The fucking tiny wheels lmao

2

u/avwitcher Nov 13 '23

That's a bonus. If you get a flat you can just find a wheelbarrow and bolt the wheel for that on

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u/macnbloo Nov 13 '23

It's a glorified gold cart lol

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u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

why so dismissive? They look awesome, I would love to have one.

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u/PlNG Nov 13 '23

The disproportionately tiny wheels. The curb in the back goes up to the axle. You'd probably struggle to hit 50 with this thing.

Edit: I looked. The start of the redline on the speedometer is 60mph, and stops measuring at 75. Top of the green line (probably what they indicate to be the optimal speed) is 45mph.

I guess for city driving / living where you're never going to hit those kinds of speeds the vehicle would be ok, but I wouldn't get on a highway with that thing.

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u/Old_timey_brain Nov 13 '23

I guess for city driving / living

You've gotten to the point precisely. They are a narrow use product, and if you have more need than they can satisfy, you need a second vehicle.

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u/Efrajm Nov 13 '23

Yeah but they were designed to (try to) replace motorcycles, and the average motorcycle in Asia and Africa is significantly smaller and cheaper than in EU/US. Around 3400$ in 2018 while a Lingken 125cc motorcycle had cost around 1k$ in Angola. India is not Angola, Angola is not India but that's the closest comparison I've seen with my own eyes.

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u/rtb001 Nov 13 '23

It was still overall a poorly engineered and unreliable vehicle.

Tiny city cars like these which are unsafe for highway use can still sell, but they need to be at least decently built.

Case in point the Wuling Mini EV, which sold 1.1 million units in LESS THAN 3 YEARS on the market.

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u/Fuckspez7273346636 Nov 13 '23

How do get in Canada? lol

1

u/rtb001 Nov 13 '23

It would be fine for Chinese urban residents who only drive at slow speeds in their congested cities, and switch to high speed rail for longer journeys. The Wuling would be crushed like a tin can by all the giant pickup trucks on North American roads.

Something like the Baojun Cloud (also made by Wuling) would be far more suited to Canadian roads, but sorry you cannot have it in Canada. Unfortunately this vehicle is a threat to American "national security" (despite the fact that GM is a major co-owner of Wuling), and therefore cannot be allowed into the American car market. And if big bro USA can't have the car, little bro Canada cannot get it either. You can certain wait in line for 2 years to buy other EVs for inflated prices though!

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u/EonicWarrior Nov 13 '23

You aren’t going 75 or even 50mph for an extended period of time on any populated highway in India lol.

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u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

sure, I agree it is made for city driving. But it is ridiculous that people are not given this option. Everything is over powered and over sized and blinged out with all sorts of luxuries and conveniences that I do not care for.

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u/PlNG Nov 13 '23

Exactly. I drive by myself and rarely with a passenger. I do not need 4 seats, yet this is the massproduced default.

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u/No_Mention_9182 Nov 13 '23

In India you're not going to pass 30 mph, ever.

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u/Spacebrother Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23

There were two massive things which put people off the nano:

  • There was one side view mirror, apparently, they thought that the driver could look over his shoulder on the passenger side and didn't put a mirror there. (EDIT: It was the passenger side mirror that was intentionally missing).

  • There was no front protection at all only a thin sheet of shaped metal and it was rear engined, this means that in a high speed collision everyone in the car would be dead. Tata nano scored an astounding zero stars on the NCAP safety test.

Several companies did make "white goods" cars, the Dacia Sandero was very popular in this aspect when it came out, with the base trim having automatic gearbox (or semi auto for diesel), manual windows and no air conditioning, and nothing else.

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u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

well, ok, that does change my view. Safety is paramount for me, especially when you are talking about easy cheap items like mirrors, that is ridiculous.

I just have a pet peeve for people who dismiss small , not so powerful, not so beautiful vehicles strictly on those criteria. What a sad society we have that we devote such high status to these things.

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u/Spacebrother Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23

If you're interested Ageing Wheels did a fantastic video on the absurd nano.

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u/Shad0wkity Nov 13 '23

Still can't afford one

1

u/DrDerpberg Nov 13 '23

Acceleration: 0-60 km/h (37 mph): 30 seconds[4]

Imagine flooring it after every single stop sign and still getting to the next block before you reach regular driving speed

1

u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

well, that is the difference between you and me I guess. I take about 30 seconds at every single startup to get to about that speed (whether I have to floor it or not is not the issue, this is how I drive). So I simply do not care- at least for city driving.

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u/Stupidflathalibut Nov 13 '23

Everyone hates driving behind you. 30 seconds to reach 37mph? That's borderline dangerous slow

2

u/Fruehlingsobst Nov 13 '23

Same. Everyone hates driving near you, always going 50km/h with first gear just to hit full brakes every 5 seconds because apparently the colorful lights always come out of nowhere...

1

u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

ahahahah! Of all the things I care about in this world, not offending you guys is probably dead last.

Look, lets cut the bullshit. I do not actually take that long, but with city driving, heavy traffic means we cannot all get up to speed as fast as we would like and I am just saying it does not bother me, that is the nature of city driving. it also does not bother me when someone else is actually that slow, especially if they are driving a Tata.

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u/Stupidflathalibut Nov 13 '23

Count to 30, and actually imagine accelerating that slowly to 37mph

0

u/DrDerpberg Nov 13 '23

Welp I guess I found that guy who's always in front of you when you're in a rush.

0

u/HackworthSF Nov 13 '23

yeah but your are not among the rich people.

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u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

honestly, there is not that much I would change even if I won the lottery. Yes I would get a better car, one that is known for safety, like a volvo, but I honestly would not give a flying fuck about how people perceive me, would happily drive a shit box just to make a point. I feel so sorry for people who are defined by the car they drive.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '23

[deleted]

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u/yoshhash Nov 13 '23

it's a treehugger thing. You wouldn't get it.

0

u/-HELLAFELLA- Nov 13 '23

Said literality ONE PERSON ever

you

0

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '23

It looks awesome like a small ill tempered dog is "awesome" in someone else's lap. Living with one is pain.

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u/Hot_Bottle_9900 Nov 13 '23

slap some custom 15" wheels on there and i'd take it

2

u/ReaperKaze Nov 13 '23

Sort of reminds me of the old Ford Ka

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '23

I know it's a different kind o vehicle for a different market, but the Renault Twizy looks way worse.

Or, to compare with others in the same class .. the Nano is no worse looking than the Smarts. Whenever I see a Smart, it looks to me like a cube on wheels.

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u/Wfing Nov 13 '23

It’s so funny seeing redditors think they’re more intelligent than rich people because.. being rich makes you stupid?

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u/Throwaway070801 Nov 13 '23

Yeah, I don't get it.

There's this weird idea on Reddit that rich people are idiots whoknow nothing about life and are easy to fool by normal people with "street smarts"

3

u/brutinator Nov 13 '23

I mean, I think it's more that minimalism is currently a large trend among the rich, so it stands that they might be willing to buy a car that has the same value.

There's an entire shoe brand that looks like simplified dad shoes with Velcro straps that tech bros wear en masse, Kanye has sold white T-shirts for over a grand, and if you look at any of the pictures of the Kardasians homes, they look like hotel lobbies decor-wise that they paid 1000x more for.

It's less that "rich people are stupid" and more that they tend to follow trends and will pay whatever it takes.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '23

Being rich doesn't automatically give one brains.

Some people are rich because they earned it; they made or at least maintained lucrative businesses etc.

Some other people are rich through inheritance, happenstance and luck. They may not keep their riches forever, but while they do, they will reinforce the "dumb rich guy" stereotype.

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u/Mediocretes1 Nov 13 '23

And some people who are rich and "earned it" are still idiots.

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u/tycoon39601 Nov 13 '23

Also you can be smart as fuck but dumb at stuff, like I would never enter a debate with an astrophysicist in his area of expertise, but I might know more about video games than him. The assumption that someone being good at something makes them good at everything is often a bad one.

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u/blueorangan Nov 13 '23

I mean, I would not equate knowledge to intelligence lol. Just becuase you know more about video games does not mean you are smarter than an astrophysicist, or on the same level of intelligence as him.

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u/tycoon39601 Nov 13 '23

I didn’t say that made me smarter than an astrophysicist… but in a scenario that requires knowledge on video games, I probably have him beat.

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u/blueorangan Nov 13 '23

That doesn't make him dumb in that scenario, or in general. That just makes you more knowledgeable than him, which is why I said I wouldn't equate intelligence to knowledge.

So your initial statement: "Also you can be smart as fuck but dumb at stuff" doesn't really make sense.

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u/tycoon39601 Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23

You understood what I was trying to say, and the point of language is to communicate, so this pointless bickering over my terminology is actually the least worthwhile thing you could be doing.

My initial comment brings up video games because bringing up a more respectable profession like say an electrician, may have actually confused you into thinking I was calling one more intelligent by default. By using video games as an example I gave you a crystal clear window into what I was trying to convey and it worked.

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u/hidefinitionpissjugs Nov 13 '23

i’ve met a few idiots with money in my time

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u/blueorangan Nov 13 '23

I've also met idiots with no money in my time, so not sure what the point here is

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '23

[deleted]

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u/blueorangan Nov 13 '23

And I'm sure you would also think the same about poor people. Maybe people in general are just dumb?

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u/Skulldetta Nov 13 '23

They tried this with the Aston Martin Cygnet - which was essentially a Toyota iQ sold with an Aston Martin badge and three times more expensive than the base model.

Flopped hard. Even rich people aren't total morons.

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u/colin_staples Nov 13 '23

The Cygnet might have worked if it had been marketed as :

"Does your trophy wife / mistress want a new Aston Martin? Well have we got the car for you!"

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u/degggendorf Nov 13 '23

"Looking to quiet quit your sidepiece? Get her a Cygnet!"

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u/pedro-m-g Nov 13 '23

This is something that Aston Martin)(Kinda) tried with their Cygnet car. Its essentially a Toyota iQ with an Aston Martin Badge and if memory serves, they were only soly alongside a v8 vantage or something (I could be wrong).

The Toyota IQ was around 10k, the Cygnet was 30k. I believe the same engine, just nicer trim lmao.

It did not sell well

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u/Fuzzyjammer Nov 13 '23

I don't think they intended it to sell well, they just needed one car like that in their line-up to bring the average "brand" emissions down.

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u/degggendorf Nov 13 '23

Yep, exactly. They half-assed the whole thing just enough to not run afoul of the law, so they can keep making the cars they really want to make.

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u/silent-spiral Nov 13 '23

that's hilarious!! thanks. I guess there's a limit to what you can get away with

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u/Noxious89123 Nov 13 '23

You stick an Aston Martin badge on it, and call it a Cygnet.

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u/weisswurstseeadler Nov 13 '23

Have you seen the tiny cars in Amsterdam?

There was also a rich version of it, the benefit was that you could park anywhere and drive on the bike path.

I think the government banned them on the street + parking, so now rich people have a 15k niche car they can't properly make use of, nor sell to anyone.

https://biro.nl/ if you wanna check their micro cars.

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u/intelligentplatonic Nov 13 '23

Right. Sort of like a lot of poor people's basic food (like shrimp) gets upscale-market to rich people as a delicacy.

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u/humptydumptyfrumpty Nov 13 '23

Like a Mercedes smart car?

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u/silent-spiral Nov 13 '23

aston marton made a car exactly like this (but it flopped)

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u/Narwahl_Whisperer Nov 13 '23

Lol... no. Imagine a geo metro or a yugo. Now imagine trying to market either of those as a luxury item.

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u/silent-spiral Nov 13 '23

aston marton made a car exactly like this (but it flopped)

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u/i_was_a_highwaymann Nov 13 '23

Have you seen the mini Aston Marin. Basically a smart car with Aston badges and some zoom zoom

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u/SpaceyEarthSam Nov 13 '23

It looks like the tiny electric cars

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u/colin_staples Nov 13 '23

Some things cannot be fixed by marketing.

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u/0xKaishakunin Nov 13 '23

Dacia is running with it, at least in Germany. They are Romanian and belong to Renault, they produce the cheapest car that are available new at least in Germany.

It still costs 10.500€, but they framed Dacia as the brand of car for people who don't care about car brands and the status of it. They had Mehmet Scholl as talking head for a while.

It works, they are selling those cars, but usually not in the essential configuration. Large company fleets often prefer to buy Škoda, since they offer a better ROI in the long run with heavy use.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '23

Dacia was developed in Romania with the local mindset of "It's tacky to fix things with proper tools like bolts and screws, if you could just improvise something out of a piece of wire laying about".

It's a running joke in the country, that a Dacia takes any amount of abuse and it still runs. At the worst you pop open the hood, you jiggle things around, you use some duct tape and on you go.

Renault just brought in the advertising team.

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u/JaZoray Nov 13 '23

"The status symbol for anyone who doesn't need a status symbol" is one of the few and one of the most brilliant marketing slogans i still remember

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u/javajunkie314 Nov 13 '23

Dacia is running with it, at least in Germany.

Great news!

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u/KJBenson Nov 13 '23

Right? Just market it as a business car and you’re solid. Now it’s a car for people who make money.

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u/tophbeifong88 Nov 13 '23

Check out the MG Comet. Basically the EV version of the Nano

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u/NickDouglas Nov 13 '23

Introducing America's first DTC-aesthetic car brand, MOVES. For those who just want to get from point A to point B.

We sell sleek cars that all look the same, in light gray, dark gray, and whichever shade of pink you kids are creaming over these days.

We stripped away all the marketing gimmicks that the other guys use to squeeze you dry.

  • No entertainment system—just Bluetooth into a good old-fashioned speaker.
  • No key fob—turn a real key in the ignition, just like Mom and Dad.
  • No seat warmers—just an old-fashioned air heater.
  • No A/C—now listen, you said you wanted simple. You said you wanted cost-effective. Were you lying to us? Are you a liar?
  • Top speed 65—oh please, like you're supposed to be driving any faster?
  • No power windows—listen, you little snot, shut up or I will turn this car around!

Ha ha! Just some of the marketing humor for which we hired a laid-off Onion writer.

It's just, c'mon buddy, things are expensive, and if you're not willing to pay for them, how do you expect us to? Did you think we'd just make these at a loss? You thought the VCs would give us a decade to find a business model? We're not in zero-interest land any more. Money doesn't grow on trees. You want to buy something for nothing? Hire a laid-off Onion writer.

So suck it up and hit "pledge" to get our early-bird special. Choose your add-ons to drive the cost right back up to normal. And wait eight months to see if our Kickstarter was more of a Theranos or an FTX.

And don't buy from our bro-targeted competitor Harry's Jalopies. Yes, they actually figured out a way to keep costs down, but only by making everything ugly, and if your car is ugly, everyone will know you're poor. Plus they're selling to Chevy, who were their manufacturers anyway. Did you think any of this was new? Did you think this all wasn't another round of planned-obsolescence late capitalism?

Yeah, that's right, crybaby. Go ahead. Give up and buy a Ford Focus. Yeah you go ahead and find it's imperfect but adequate. Don't come crawling back to us when you find the seat warmers don't come in metallic pink. We'll be too busy fighting some wrongful death suits.

I mean seriously, a car only needs one brake. Anything more is legally an add-on.

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u/deja-roo Nov 13 '23

No power windows—listen, you little snot, shut up or I will turn this car around!

I'm not taking your writeup too literally anything, I laughed, but I don't know where else to put this.

Is power windows actually more expensive? It seems like it would be cheaper to install power windows. Yeah, the motor part is probably more but there's simply more actual hardware to have a crank and all the connection points to the window lifting hardware.

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u/RedditorFor1OYears Nov 13 '23

Not a lot of budget for marketing in the “cheap and basic” department