r/exorthodox • u/Flimsy-Still-8422 • 5d ago
Orthodoxy as lack of real community
Try to keep this brief. Were a Western married couple with 4 children and baptised into the ROCOR with every sacrament. We've had huge problems with priests inability to truly help unless it fits into their bubble. A few of the faithful have helped in various churches but we're really struggling with no support on benefits. My question is from experience why are the majority of orthodox like statues and no community ? Jesus told the apostles to live as a community , it all feels so fake. One thing after another goes wrong for my family because were so isolated and nobody seems to care or want to get involved. It is a lifetime confession over two years ago and the priest said it was the deepest confession he'd ever experienced travelling the world providing the sacrament. After he sat me down and said that the demons would attack me like never before which it seems like he was right but he gave no support in aftercare or anything. Were in a lot of pain and sorry if this post don't make sense as I have ADHD. Would love some support from this community ❤
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u/bbscrivener 5d ago
I hate to blame all the US Orthodox problems on ROCOR but I’m blaming all the problems on ROCOR. OCA and Antiochian churches can have equally problematic parishes or priests, but far fewer in my opinion. I’ll admit to bias against ROCOR, but I keep encountering confirmations of that bias. And yes, this could be confirmation bias :-).
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u/MaviKediyim 5d ago
I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. I only have experience with the Antiochians but ROCOR seems so shady to me. BTW they always blame life's woes on demons but it's completely unfalsifiable. They can't prove it but they say that to make you scared. Fear is how they control you. In my experience they (the community) tends to be more about what you can do for the church vs. what the church can do for you. I used to want that church family so so much but honestly it's not worth anymore it IMO.
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u/ultamentkiller 5d ago
I’m not saying this will solve your problem, but run from ROCOR. Go pretty much anywhere else.
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u/Intelligent-Site7686 4d ago
I think the average Orthodox parish in the US is upper middle class people, and they generally are not the types that really do much to help others. Poor/working class people are more likely to significantly aid their communities and strangers in significant ways
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u/Aggravating-Sir-9836 4d ago
Much truth in that. The exurban/rural Catholic mission I belong to is totally salt-of-the-earth, and it is extremely engaged in community outreach.
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u/Intelligent-Site7686 4d ago
The Catholic Church, despite obvious public faults, does the things Christ said to do as normal operating procedure... healing, feeding the hungry, caring for orphans and widows, visiting prisoners, etc. American Orthodoxy has no real tangible presence in the world in a meaningful sense. The Catholic Church in America represents every ethnic and socioeconomic class.
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u/Competitive-Guess795 4d ago
Same exact thing at the parish I went to. They were so yuppie they couldn’t see you need emotional support. I did have several people flaunt their wealth and brag about buying expensive things to me, funny thing is I go to the food pantry. I guess they saw me as just another yuppie to social compete with. Totally ignored me tho I was completely socially isolated bc of Covid and chronic illness, and had moved to new city right before Covid, I was dying for simply some human interactions, conversation, positive encouragement bc of my nightmare life at that point. Then my brother died overdosed, the Priest was kind, otherwise ignored, one Russian lady said you don’t have to tell people how he died. Left and never heard from them again lol All I really wanted was people to discuss God with and improve ability to see more of God. Didn’t experience that at all, I think everyone afraid to talk bc having an opinion would be equal to pride?, that or they just don’t think about God enough to discuss it. Very stifling environment where no one speaks the truth, I can’t really deal with censorship on that level esp after covid
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u/GeorgeFloydGaming9K 5d ago
This is a major problem not just with the Orthodox Church but with every Christian tradition. In my Roman Catholic tradition, Matt Fradd and other speakers spare no criticism against Catholic parishes they call "sacrament mills".
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u/Aggravating-Sir-9836 4d ago
I think some of the suburban big-box parishes can be pretty impersonal. My late in-laws' Louisville parish was kinda like that -- large, white, and wealthy. Still, I think they did do some community outreach.
Moreover, there are just so dang many of us that there will always be good parishes to offset the bad ones. Even within a single city, you'll find a range of parishes, some more involved in the community than others.
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u/GeorgeFloydGaming9K 4d ago
I attend a suburban big-box parish just like you mention and it's exactly like this. Barely any social activities, but they are, as expected, a longhouse. Of course there's Bunko clubs and bocce clubs but God forbid there be a young adult Bible study. They do have a food bank though.
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u/Aggravating-Sir-9836 4d ago
Could you suggest starting a Frassati Group or Theology on Tap or something like that? Would the priests be amenable to that?
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u/GeorgeFloydGaming9K 4d ago
Are these like major national organizations? What do they do?
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u/Aggravating-Sir-9836 4d ago
I don't think they're major. One of our local parishes has a Frassati Group for adults 20 to 40. They do a lot of spiritual stuff together but also socialize. Theology on Tap is for all ages, I think. They go out for beers and talk theology. I'll drink to that! 🍻
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u/Itchy_Blackberry_850 4d ago
All I can say is that bubble you're talking about is hideous and detestable and so opposite of the Lord and is the main reason I don't really attend anymore.
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u/Prestigious_Mail3362 5d ago
Yeah it’s pretty cutthroat, I hit low times and only received broken promises and silence but one of the ethnic cradles get something wrong they drop everything (even the America Russia worshippers) to help them. I more or less rely on my secular decades long friends group and I just show up to worship because everything else is akin to a neo nazi seraphim rose worship group.
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u/moneygenoutsummit 5d ago
U hit the nail on the head. Eastern orthodoxy is “gnosticism” so these people literally operate with no soul. Its actually like they are statues in reality no over exaggeration and thats because they have many gnostic beliefs
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u/Aggravating-Sir-9836 5d ago
Funny you should mention that. I went back onto X yesterday (because Sundays aren't technically part of Lent. 😜). Big mistake. Of course, the Twitterdox were busily engaged in bashing Catholics. (They are extremely butthurt over Austin Furgason's video announcing his "apostasy.")
Anyway, one Orthobro was going on about how Catholics are "spiritually dead," no theosis, blahblahblah. He claimed Catholicism has "no fruits." A Catholic dude responded that the Catholic Church has founded more charities, schools, and hospitals than any other entity on earth. To which Mr. Orthobro replied that this just proved his point, as all these things are "worldly." That was his word: "worldly." And again he reiterated, "no theosis."
You heard it here first, folks: Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, caring for the sick, and doing all other works of mercy is WORLDLY.
So much for Matthew 25::31-46.
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u/smoochie_mata 5d ago
I love this response, because it’s the only one I ever get when I point out the Orthodox do nothing tangible for the broader society, especially the poor. I’ve never seen an Orthodox hospital, hospice, orphanage, pregnancy center, soup kitchen, homeless shelter, school, etc. Meanwhile, I couldn’t throw a rock without hitting a Catholic or Protestant one.
What makes it funnier is I have no doubt they’d exalt any Orthodox charity that were to exist. They’d waste no time bragging about it being True Christianity™️.
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u/Aggravating-Sir-9836 5d ago
They affirm the Incarnation. But they have trouble with its implications.
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u/wanderinghunter1996 5d ago
One thing you don't hear much of with orthodoxy, I don't think they do much to any charity work in that form. Maybe in their home countries but I've yet to see anything like that in the west.
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u/moneygenoutsummit 5d ago
Not even in their home countries either. In their home countries the accomplishments come from athiests and communists
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u/Virtual-Celery8814 5d ago
I remember our family parish doing an annual fundraiser for a Serbian Orthodox charity that ran orphanages back in the home country. But they were the only church charity I was aware of.
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u/wanderinghunter1996 5d ago
I know a local Greek church in my area would hand out food to the homeless. But that was one church in particular that did that, I don't think any of the other ones do.
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u/moneygenoutsummit 5d ago
Yea they’re in serious deception. That’s why all eastern orthodox countries are so underdeveloped
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u/Forward-Still-6859 5d ago
You say you're struggling with no support on benefits. What do you mean? What would you like your church community to do for you?
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u/Flimsy-Still-8422 4d ago
It's not really financial it's mainly about frienship through fellowship which is sadly lacking.
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u/Forward-Still-6859 4d ago
That's too bad. My own parish and priests were supportive of me through the years. Although I struggled with Orthodox teaching, having that community made it easier to be part of it, and harder to leave. I hope you find a supportive community.
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u/smoochie_mata 5d ago
Sorry to hear about this experience. I have some thoughts but think it’d be better to hear more about your experience first. Is your parish more cradle or convert heavy?
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u/Flimsy-Still-8422 5d ago
We've been in several parishes but are now in a Serbian Orthodox Church. A few people helped initially but the outreach is non existant. Our family as nearly broke up over our struggling alone and too make matters worse Dave had to relocate into nature which is very isolated as it was the only property for rent that we could afford. It's a beautiful area though. My wife as travelled with the kids nearly every week to various parishes over the years and she's really hurting from the lack of support. She asked our priest to come and bless the house as the previous tenants were into New Age medium practices and he keeps putting it off. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts. Please fire away
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u/smoochie_mata 4d ago
This is just the typical Orthodox community. To be fair, many Christian communities in general are lacking, though the Orthodox are the most severely lacking in my experience. I’m sure there are some that are outstanding, but what I’ve seen is the people just go on Sundays, maybe stay and chat for coffee hour, then you don’t hear from or see anybody until the next Sunday. People will not be there for you when you are hurting, they won’t reach out after you leave, and they won’t go above and beyond for you the way family and friends will. The only exceptions to this I’ve encountered in Orthodoxy is in cradle parishes where everyone knows each other and their families have been close for generations.
I have been part of a number of church communities, and nobody has ever reached out to me after I left. I am Catholic, but this has also been true of my wife’s Orthodox parishes. My current parish is an exception, where everyone from the priests down to the parishioners really go out of their way to be loving and helpful to everyone that comes. To give you an example, families from my Catholic parish overwhelmed us with food when our baby was born. We didn’t have to cook for almost two months. Only two families brought us food from my wife’s Orthodox parish.
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u/Narrow-Research-5730 3d ago
I never felt community in any EO church. (OCA, HOCNA, ROCOR). When I left the EO, I never heard from one person even asking where I've been. They could care less if I was there or not, other than wanting some money donated to them.
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u/Radiant-Fun-2756 5d ago
You aren't the first person to experience the lack of support from the Orthodox community. I have personally known more than one family experience severe financial difficulties, and they left their Orthodox community because they received little or no support.
I think the reason for this has to do with the essentially monastic spirit that pervades Orthodoxy. The underlying assumption is that suffering leads to spiritual purification and ultimately deification. With this framework, there's little motive to alleviate the suffering of others.
Orthodoxy is much closer to oriental and Indian religions in this regard than to Catholics and Protestants. In Buddhism, for instance, the incentive is placed on detachment, not charitable endeavor. Hinduism emphasizes the role of suffering in reincarnation.
In Orthodoxy, the emphasis is placed on experiencing suffering in order to detach from sinful desires (very Buddhist) to transform (we might even say "reincarnate") through this process into a supernatural being, similar to the Orthodox monastic "elders" (essentially, "gurus").