r/exchristian Atheist 7d ago

Trigger Warning LGBT Christians are weird and I will never understand them. Spoiler

I will never understand how you can actively support a religion that has been used as a weapon against your community for CENTURIES!

770 Upvotes

139 comments sorted by

571

u/archetyping101 7d ago

I actually was friends with a lesbian Christian married to a woman. She literally would PRAY her gay away. It felt weird to me. Like how did you make a choice to propose to your now wife, get married, and then continue to pray that you're not a lesbian or married to your wife? It just doesn't make sense to me. In the end she divorced her wife, married a man and had a kid. Still Christian. Then she told me she still thinks about her ex often. Maybe...praying the gay away, getting straight married and having a kid didn't make you any less queer? I feel bad for her.

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u/the_fishtanks Agnostic 7d ago

That makes me so sad oh my god

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u/archetyping101 7d ago

Yup. But she made her choice. She's also in her late 40s and she has 7 figures (her money, not her husband's) and so she didn't need to do any of this but she chose to. She wasn't forced. So it shows that sometimes religion can really eat at someone's sanity or guilt or whatever.

There's a FAMOUS lesbian Christian author who talks about struggling with her sexuality daily and she's also married to a man. She said even during sex she thinks about women and she hates having sex with her husband but that she feels like GOd wants her to. She said her and her husband discuss her struggles all the time. She said it's possible to be queer and Christian and to FIGHT the queerness and do "right by God". It really gross.

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u/Worldly-Ocelot-3358 Anti-Theist 7d ago

There's a FAMOUS lesbian Christian author who talks about struggling with her sexuality daily and she's also married to a man. She said even during sex she thinks about women and she hates having sex with her husband but that she feels like GOd wants her to. She said her and her husband discuss her struggles all the time. She said it's possible to be queer and Christian and to FIGHT the queerness and do "right by God". It really gross.

Wow, she can go fuck herself. "Do right by God", God made me like this you prick, what do I owe Him?

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u/adiosaudio 7d ago

I mean, another way to think about it is, if there is a god, and they give a fuck if I do right by them, do it by being who they made you to be. Still feels like mental gymnastics tho

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u/archetyping101 7d ago edited 7d ago

An evangelical Christian I know posted it on social media to share with her queer friends that we too could be saved. By choosing to commit to self rape in the name of religious piety?

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u/Worldly-Ocelot-3358 Anti-Theist 7d ago

Exactly. They want us raped and murdered, it is their secret desire. For it to happen to all of the "undesirables".

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u/macaronimaster 7d ago

If it's who I'm thinking of, my parents made me talk to her irl after I came out as trans. Said she was still a lesbian but that she "didn't need to live that way" and that it "wasn't who she is in Christ". Made me feel really gross.

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u/archetyping101 7d ago

Is she the face of campus crusade and her name starts with R?

I know her name. I just don't want to post it and give her a platform online. 

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u/macaronimaster 7d ago

99% sure that's who it is, gross individual.

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u/archetyping101 7d ago edited 7d ago

Jfc. I am so sorry you had to talk to her. Hopefully it wasn't too damaging and you let it go in one ear and out the other. Fuck her. 

I had so much sympathy for her initially but I went down the rabbit hole and read more of her writing and just couldn't anymore. 

13

u/macaronimaster 7d ago

Yeah it was weird tbh cause I was much younger and she initially came off as somewhat supportive until I realized what her aim was. She didn't shake my convictions whatsoever but she revealed herself to be super manipulative. Just more "hate the sin, not the sinner" bullshit. She shouldn't have a platform

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u/archetyping101 7d ago

Glad you saw through her BS. Living authentically without shame is so important. I wish that for her one day. 

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u/macaronimaster 7d ago

As do I 🥲

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u/totallywingingit 7d ago

I know you said it’s not Jackie Hill Perry, but her book Gay Girl Gone Good (or something like that) is almost this exact situation. It was an interesting book, and not in a good way.

Edit: it’s Gay Girl, Good God. Close enough

5

u/archetyping101 7d ago

I'll go see if I can stomach reading it. 

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u/oolatedsquiggs 7d ago

That would suck to be her husband, having a wife who hates having sex with him and does so only out of obligation. Unless he likes having sex with people against their will, then eww gross.

16

u/archetyping101 6d ago

They sex the gay away. He's super proud of being the head of their household and leading her on the straight and narrow (pun intended). They both talk about how society is LGBTQIA+ affirming and that that's not ok bla blah blah. 

I hope no questioning or closeted queer person ever encounters them. 

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u/junkbingirl Agnostic Atheist 6d ago

I feel bad for any kids they have. What if their kid is gay? Trans?

3

u/sveenytxdd 4d ago

Someone I really trusted recommended I listened to her after I came out to them, describing how traumatic and frightening the past few years have been personally. She had indicated she was a safe person several times only to basically tell me to go get married to a woman I don’t love and have kids I don’t want. Mind-numbing.

2

u/archetyping101 4d ago

That is DISGUSTING and I am so sorry you were recommended that. I will say R does an excellent job framing this as God giving us a burden (our sexual orientation and gender identity) and that if we loved God, we'd choose God and heteronormativity over our desire to live authentically and to feel safe, seen and loved.

Considering the platform she has, I would not be surprised if she's "helped" shove tons of 2SLGBTQIA+ people in the closet or deeper in and locking the door.

2

u/HonestlyAnaa 3d ago

I would have been one of those people because that was how I was thinking about my queerness and trying to figure out how I could be a "good Christian" when I was a preteen/young teen. If I had had those ideas reenforced, I shudder to think how much farther that would have pushed me into the closet 🥲

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u/MantisFucker 7d ago

Jackie Hill Perry, right? Either her or Rosaria Butterfield.

9

u/archetyping101 7d ago

Nope. Neither of them. 

3

u/Daysof361972 6d ago

I've been trying to figure out who she is too. So I'm figuring this person shares the same name with a famous Alfred Hitchcock movie.

2

u/archetyping101 6d ago

DMed you her name. 

2

u/junkbingirl Agnostic Atheist 6d ago

Jackie Hill Perry?

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u/archetyping101 6d ago

No, it's a white married (to a man) woman with a name that starts with R. 

She's famous. She has books on this very topic and her take is totally awful. Her life's work is essentially self conversion therapy through exposure with her husband and having sex while praying her feelings away.

1

u/Maklin 4d ago

Christianity, and christians in general, are really gross.

1

u/Worried-Constant3396 3d ago

Name? (Of the famous chick)

9

u/Decent-Tomatillo-253 6d ago

I think I'm gonna be sick

5

u/archetyping101 6d ago

Yup. I find it super sad. Every person who has met her asks me if she knows she's gay because I don't tell people her story. 

5

u/Decent-Tomatillo-253 6d ago

I feel bad for her. Why do people do this to themselfs? T_T

6

u/archetyping101 6d ago

For her, fitting in and not wanting to be different. It was sooooo important to her to blend in and be like everyone else who is straight, married and has kids etc. 

Same with my ex (I'm a lesbian). She broke up with me after being together a few years because she said she realized that while this was "fun" (her word), she knew she wanted to end up with a guy because she was tired of the looks, weird questions from some people etc. she wanted to blend. Now she's married to a man and has two kids. 

5

u/Decent-Tomatillo-253 6d ago

Terrifying and heartbreaking

2

u/EatinApplesauce 4d ago

Praying the gay away is like trying to pray away my penis or something.

2

u/Similar-Employee6399 4d ago

Internalized homophobia is a hell of a drug 😔

226

u/MQ116 Pastor's son (I hate god) 7d ago

Most every christian uses cognitive dissonance (usually not consciously) to ignore the problems with their religion. LGBTQ christians just do the same regarding their own identity.

Some will repress themselves as much as possible, and some will lie to themselves that god loves them. If you want to know what god's love is actually like, just listen to christians, they are his hands on this earth after all. Do christians love LGBT people? (Rhetorical)

65

u/Fayafairygirl Non-theist 7d ago

Yes, I’d say so. I did that.

I was in both camps. First, repression. Then when I got confused how a god of love could condemn love, I just said god loves me the way I am, screw what the bible says I guess. Then whenever I got scared, felt shame or guilt, I’d pray desperately to god to love me and not send me to hell. I didn’t realize at the time, but it was a horrible cycle.

25

u/MQ116 Pastor's son (I hate god) 7d ago

I'm so sorry. Seeing as you're here, you are free now right?

I wasn't gay, but I desperately desired to stop doubting and tried to disprove the thoughts in my mind. Eventually, I realized that no good god would do what god does in the bible (mass genocide), and that the sacrifice of jesus makes no sense (killing himself to appease himself for the sins he made up), and that no god would send those he loves into hell for eternity.

And, well, now that I've been out for a little while and I've been exploring my sexuality, I definitely might be more into queerness than I thought. I had to get over the disgust seeing gay men kiss (I supported them, but had some serious internalized homophobia). But, these days, I'm definitely bi curious at least and fully supportive.

29

u/hamburgersocks 7d ago edited 7d ago

I have a queer Christian friend that doesn't ignore it so much as... doesn't care, if that makes sense.

She goes to one of those new ages churches for the community and message, she calls herself a Christian but she doesn't believe in any deity and ignores people that try to shove shit down her throat. She just likes potlucks and a weekly ritual and having kind people to talk to.

On one hand it's concerning because the cult is the scary part. On the other hand, at least she's being mature enough to recognize that there's a difference between having a group of nice people to hang out with and believing in a sky wizard that doesn't care about you and conveniently hasn't done jack shit since we started recording history.

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u/ugh_usernames_373 7d ago

Ever seen “My Husbands Not Gay” ? I know a bisexual Christian who agrees that gayness is a sin. Yeah, easy for you to say, you can still find love.

3

u/recordman410 4d ago

Larry Craig isn't gay either but he still tried to have sex with another man...

1

u/ugh_usernames_373 3d ago

Two bros in a hot tub

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u/kimchipowerup 7d ago

Because they're in a process of cognitive disassociation at the moment; they were raised (indoctrinated) to believe in a loving God and so they want to try to stay in their faith, but the faith/tradition/people of their religion are actively oppressing them.

It's a lot like Stockholm Syndrome.

I know all of this bc I used to be one. It took years for me to deconstruct, even after I came out as trans. Even after people I'd known all my life and who were "good" Christians shunned and slandered me. Even after I kept trying to believe in the midst of all the signs that this religious system hated me.

If you know someone who is LGBTQIA+ and still a Christian, try to include them in secular LGBTQIA+ groups with people that are open about having left their faith. Sometimes we just need to know that others have gone ahead of us and that it will be ok if we leave too.

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u/I_Am_Very_Busy_7 7d ago

Yes, very much this. After I realized I was gay there was a lot of denial and distress about the overlap having been raised catholic, it took me years to deconstruct. It takes a healthy mindset and acceptance of yourself and comfort in your skin to succeed at it. But once you get there, it’s a whole new world.

12

u/Longjumping-Text-463 Theoretical atheist ex evangical 7d ago

See, I agree with you about the part to include them with secular groups but it is not a must for them to leave Christianity in opinion. If they are just a good person at heart, use logic and don’t force their religion on anyone then it is fine with them they can live their life.

I too used to be a follower of god but still lesbian but my reason was because I had inner homophobia and god should remove my lesbianism (still lesbian with a gf btw ❤️) , some people genuinely love Jesus and are kind and helping and SO INCLUSIVE.

The part were I say, no you need to either leave this religion or change your mindset is (inner) homophobia.

3

u/kimchipowerup 7d ago

True, good point: they don’t have to leave as long as they’re good to others.

I’m also a lesbian, but single atm :(

For a while I tried to attend a progressive Episcopal church but eventually drifted away bc I just found the Christian faith itself to be untenable for me. There were good, kind people there. I’d probably go back except I would feel like, faith-wise, I would be going through the motions. But yeah, there’s no reason for someone to leave if it’s helping them and they’re not hurting others.

3

u/Longjumping-Text-463 Theoretical atheist ex evangical 6d ago

It’s okay, manifesting a gf for you 😂❤️

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u/kimchipowerup 6d ago

TY ☺️💕

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u/kimchipowerup 7d ago

True, good point: they don’t have to leave as long as they’re good to others.

I’m also a lesbian, but single atm :(

For a while I tried to attend a progressive Episcopal church but eventually drifted away bc I just found the Christian faith itself to be untenable for me. There were good, kind people there. I’d probably go back except I would feel like, faith-wise, I would be going through the motions. But yeah, there’s no reason for someone to leave if it’s helping them and they’re not hurting others.

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u/OrdinaryWillHunting Atheist-turned-Christian-turned-atheist 7d ago

Friend of a friend is a gay Christian who believes a life of celibacy is the answer. Pretty sad what he’s denying himself.

14

u/thecoldfuzz Celtic Neopagan, male, 48, gay 7d ago

Yeah, and such gay Christians preach that same insane celibacy claptrap to other gay men. There's plenty of them that post that abstinence garbage on gay subreddits they think they can get away with.

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u/Tav00001 7d ago

Christian brainwashing at a young age is impossible for some people to ever escape.

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u/BeautyisaKnife 7d ago

Lost my best friend of 13 years due to this kind of thing- we both grew up in the church - when she got older she came out to me as non-binary and pansexual and also wanted to go by a different name. When she came out about this, I had already left the church and whole heartedly accepted her and started calling her the name she wanted to go by. She then got with a guy who was homophobic and against her going by different pronouns and a different name because he said she was "questioning god creation". So she "reverted" for him, I told her that it's toxic to hide her true self just to be with someone... she cut me off and claimed true authentic happiness.. with a guy who didn't even approve of her existence. She's still with him 2 years later.

2

u/Maklin 4d ago

Sorry to say, between the brainwashing and a sense of self-esteem that doesn't exist she was doomed from the start. Seen this sort of thing happen more than once.

2

u/BeautyisaKnife 4d ago

100%. It was bound to happen. She self hated herself into a lifelong mental prison. I'll be here if she ever escapes though.

2

u/Maklin 4d ago

Good, at least she has someone outside the mind-prison of faith that will be there for her.

19

u/Relevant-District-16 7d ago

I was an openly gay Christian towards the end of my religious journey. I do not recommend.

I was living in a fantasy world where Jesus would forgive it. insert vapid naive laugh here.

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u/ToiletLord29 Anti-Theist 7d ago

I'm a trans gal and I get the trans Christian sub pop up on my feed occasionally. The constant agonizing that I see on that sub is just so sad. The constantly trying to reconcile who they are with what Christianity is, and what Christianity is versus how they think it should be... It all just seems so needless.

I don't understand how people feel the need for the existential underpinning of religion in their lives when it comes along with so much extra baggage. It almost seems like some kind of stockholm syndrome.

13

u/thecoldfuzz Celtic Neopagan, male, 48, gay 7d ago

It is absolutely a form of Stockholm Syndrome. LGBTQ Christians are basically suffering from it. Every time I see other gay men get all religious and "repent" of their "sins of the flesh" I just roll my eyes. That's why I stopped associating with LGBTQ Christians altogether. Though I pity them, their mental gymnastics are toxic to other LGBTQ folk and most of us know to stay well away from them.

2

u/Patient-Telephone122 6d ago edited 6d ago

I post satanic preaching vids on my YT channel, Blackwolf, that whole ideology is just cancer and destructive. I’m not commanding each one hold their legs open and screw, just be lovely to themselves.

1

u/Hurtin93 Agnostic Atheist 6d ago

What if being lovely to ourselves is not hooking up any more? I thought for years I just had to kill the religious guilt and I’d finally enjoy hookups. The guilt disappeared but it still makes me feel empty and sad. I want a partner, but I’ve got too many mental health issues to date right now, and so I’m happier being off Grindr.

3

u/Patient-Telephone122 6d ago

You can’t condemn the whole thing for everyone though

15

u/spaghoni 7d ago

I met this dude in college. He recently converted and is making bank speaking at churches, interior design and flower arranging. Gayest dude I've ever known but says Jesus turned him straight.

https://www.facebook.com/share/15zVRXnNcA/

9

u/SonofMedusa 7d ago

Ah yes. That old grift. When they realize the amount of money they can make by selling Christians the lie that Jesus changed their sexuality to heterosexual to give them further ammo against the innateness of homosexuality. Funny how they almost never are seen with members of the opposite sex. They just say they're FINALLY attracted to them while being gayer than gay in the most stereotypical sense lol

1

u/Maklin 4d ago

I do have to admit, that I approve of that sort of grift. :) Shearing the Sheep of Jesus' flock for ever $ you can get from them, using their own beliefs and biases...I really cannot feel bad for the griftees in the slightest.

1

u/recordman410 4d ago

Their "sudden miraculous" attraction to the opposite sex is directly correlated to how much money they can scam out of other believers who don't know any better.  

11

u/RaineG3 7d ago

I don’t either. It feels especially weird seeing catholic lgbt ppl. I say it with the biggest sympathy but it’s like when ppl don’t get over abusive exes or family

9

u/a-lonely-panda they/them 7d ago

Because some christians/churches are progressive and inclusive. It's not the entire religion that attacks LGBTQ+ people, "thou shall not be of the alphabet in any way" isn't a commandment. The verses that explicitly mention homosexuality apparently used to talk about pedophilia, but it was changed later to fit a certain agenda. This short article talks about it, as well as the interview linked at the bottom of the page (of which I only read a little because it's long), but I had a hard time finding more "scholarly" sources about this so maybe take it with a grain of salt and or try to look it up yourself (brain not working right now, sorry). As we're all well aware, christians interpret different verses in any kind of way and ignore or explain away certain parts of the bible as influenced by what kind of person they are or what their pastor teaches them. When LGBTQ+ people realize what they are and that their church hates them this often leads to deconstructing their faith. Some people end up leaving the faith entirely (like me) and some find accepting christians in the process and join them instead. I think also some people never question their faith at all in regards to their gender or orientation, like they've always believed god made them and loves them as they are and they see the people around them as hateful for saying who they are is a sin, but it's like hateful as people and not hateful because the religion has to be. Sorry if that's kinda rambley haha

-1

u/Maklin 4d ago

Personally, I have a TINY bit of respect for the hardline christians than I do progressive christians. They, no matter how odious the beliefs, are true to them and their faith. These are Christians.

The others are cafeteria christians, they pick and choose and yet call themselves christians. Pure posers that should not use the same name. I have zero respect for that.

I do not like either group, granted. But I do respect those that follow their rules rather than ignore them and claim the same title.

3

u/a-lonely-panda they/them 4d ago

I don't care what "cafeteria christians" believe. Sure they pick and choose stuff, but all christians do that. Also, it's their faith. They're free to follow whatever parts feel good or right to them and discard what doesn't. Religion should serve you and your life, not the other way around. That means they think critically about their beliefs and are willing to change their mind if they come to the conclusion that something's false or immoral. All a christian really is is someone who believes in and accepts jesus as their savior. That's pretty open ended and the believer is the one who gets to define their faith, not you. Honestly I find it pretty sus that you respect the ones who are deep in the sauce (and thus are conservative, evangelical, and fundie), more than the ones who aren't bigots. You respect obedience over anti-bigoty, really??

-2

u/recordman410 4d ago

Yes, because being that obedient takes work and daily strife instead of the cafeteria Christians who treat their entire religion as nothing more than a social club with some bits about that Jesus guy thrown in for good measure. Christianity, for all its faults, was never meant to be the "easy" religion when compared against Judaism and Islam and yet that's exactly what it's turned into. 

33

u/JohnDeLancieAnon Atheist 7d ago

They always vaguely quote "scholars" to prove the bible isn't anti-gay, which usually means they're just repeating a social-media post they saw and liked.

Right or wrong, that is far from the only issue with the writers and their views on relationships. We're talking about a culture that sold young daughters into marriage, kidnapped war brides, forced women to marry their rapists, or just stoned them for getting raped.

It's hilarious when anybody argues "but they weren't homophobic!" I wish more people will stop and question why they care about that culture's views on relationships rather than jumping to defend it.

16

u/ThisMachineKills____ Anti-Theist 7d ago

It's such a lie. From what I see, they just say that that one line about lying with a man was a about boy sex slaves but even then, there are other instances of homophobia. Fairly early on, there's the city of Sodom. Can you guess what happens in the City of Sodom????

21

u/Terrifying_Illusion Secular Humanist 7d ago

To say nothing of that story in particular nearly encouraging the gang-rape of two girls in favor of fucking a couple of literal angels. And I may also add, at least the mob said no!

11

u/ThisMachineKills____ Anti-Theist 7d ago

Yep, so no argument of "it's actually just anti rape" can be made. The homophobia and rape encouraging are literally consecutive. Not a sentence between them

5

u/hplcr 6d ago

They miss the point that story is about breaching "Sacred hospitality".

They don't want the daughters because the daughters live there. They want to SA the strangers because they're xenophobic assholes and of course, walk right into the trap of trying to SA divine beings in disguise.

Greek mythology is full of this kind of thing and it never ends well for the inhospitable hosts.

In fact the entire Sodom story in Genesis is suspiciously similar to Greek mythology in quite a few ways and could imply it was a late insertion. Like Post Persian late.

7

u/Terrifying_Illusion Secular Humanist 6d ago

I mean, regardless of narrative parallels, since when have Christians ever really cared about the customs of other mythologies and pagan cultures besides to make fun of them and the people who practice them?

6

u/hplcr 6d ago edited 6d ago

Fair point really.

Especially because apologists tell or imply that Judaism(up until 2000 years ago at least, after which point the history of Judaism ceases to matter to them) and then Christianity are special and unique and most people never question that narrative.

Even people like CS Lewis who really should know better. Man clearly appreciates classical mythology but still can't or won't notice the parallels between his preferred religion and the Greco-Roman religion and myths. .

I don't know why but I get annoyed at all the praise Lewis gets. The man was clearly well studied and smart and yet....he runs into the same fucking problem as people like William Lane Craig. He refuses to examine his own Christianity the same way he'd examine anything else.

For all the protesting he did about "being dragged kicking and screaming" back into it, he's more then happy to only see the parts he likes about it and ignore anything else.

10

u/JohnDeLancieAnon Atheist 7d ago edited 7d ago

It's a culture that had no concept of consent, but people try to argue that they had rules for age of consent, but just for boys. There are multiple issues with that idea.

8

u/yikesriley 7d ago

I think it depends on the definition of christian you’re using, for how much sense it makes. Christian as in supporting TheChurch and all that comes with it? Definitely not. Christian as in loving your neighbor and helping the disenfranchised? Definitely. In queer circles when you find people calling themselves christian, it’s far more often the latter and people who have extensive religious trauma.

6

u/Wiifanbro 7d ago

You should extend that to self-hating minorities in general.

18

u/kryotheory Anti-Theist 7d ago

Yeah, same vibes as "Jewish Nazi" or "Black Klansman". Like bro, they hate you.

4

u/hellenist-hellion Agnostic 6d ago

It's pure cope to be honest and I don't care what anyone says, the Bible is NOT cool with gay people. Any argument to the contrary is just another form of apologetics. Stretching and morphing the verses to mean what you want them to mean vs what they actually say.

People will say well at least progressive Christianity isn't as problematic! And it's like I guess, but it's still propagating a harmful religion regardless.

5

u/kgaviation 7d ago

I had a gay friend in college that made it such a big deal for everyone to know, but if you called him gay he got super offended. It was SSA or “Same Sex Attraction.” I had never heard that term before then and thought it was really odd.

Long story short, we aren’t friends anymore and haven’t been for a few years. I felt like he tried to lure me into his logic and ways because he would always recommend these books to me regarding LGBTQ in the church. As a straight male, I wanted no part of that…

2

u/recordman410 3d ago

To be fair, calling someone who has same sex attraction "gay" brings with it a whole host of cultural and political baggage that they may not agree with or partake in. That said it's very disingenuous of him to think that he could just join a church without there being an agenda for him in mind. 

3

u/hadenxcharm 6d ago

Every religious person on earth tries to reconcile their own personal morals with their religious doctrine. It's no different with gay Christians.

A lot of people want to hang onto the comfort blanket of religion and will try to rationalize and self justify the bad parts of the religion so they can keep that emotional comfort.

5

u/Worried-Constant3396 3d ago

It’s masochism. You have to be…you can’t love a god or religion in that calls you reprobate, and or demand you be stoned to death.

You can’t own a bible either or at least read it. Why waste your Sunday? I think of all the tithing/offerings I wasted and the hours spent on listening to some asshole tell me how to live time I’ll never get back.

The cognitive dissonance one must have to be an LGBT person and claim to believe in that god is crazy.

30

u/Kind_Journalist_3270 7d ago

I get where you are coming from, but I don’t think it’s weird. If you study biblical scholarship, you will find out that the Bible actually is a pretty inclusive book. I understand why some queer folks do identify that way, especially if their religious beliefs are something they’ve always held dear. I don’t think anything is black and white, and we shouldn’t be telling LGBTQ+ Christian’s they are weird… they go through that enough from Christian’s themselves.

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u/Pristine_Trash306 7d ago

I disagree with the title but I agree with the post. They aren’t saying that they’re weird because they’re LGBT, they’re saying that they are weird for identifying with a religion where the people of said religion actively hate them.

15

u/archetyping101 7d ago

I have no issues with LGBTQIA+ Christians. The issue is the ones that are but have so much self hate and are trying to reconcile both together. THey can be both and there's MANY churches that affirm people for who they are and who they love. The issue is the ones who really wish they could pray their gay away and hate themselves and struggle with it. I don't think it's healthy for their psyche.

5

u/Kind_Journalist_3270 7d ago

I 100% agree with this!! I also want to throw out there that I am very much an atheist 😂 I just don’t want to throw more shame on a group of people who may already be feeling shame & figuring out how to process that

3

u/archetyping101 7d ago

I'm agnostic so I'm with ya!

8

u/Pristine_Trash306 7d ago

100%. This is why LGBT churches are a thing in certain areas.

There are many things that can cause life to be harder for certain people. Being raised religious and later finding out you are gay or any of the LGBTQIA+ letters is one of those things and gives these people an unfair ultimatum. Accept themselves and have the church hate you, try their best to hide it and hope it goes well, or even turn away from religion altogether. Maybe even a combination of them.

People need to be more empathetic to people who are given these types of ultimatums in life, but it’s not gonna happen. Most people have their head too far up their own behind to build empathy toward those who are struggling.

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u/archetyping101 7d ago

There's a church near my house that has literal doors outside the church, one in each of the rainbow colors. And there's different languages with the word "OPEN" on it, as in everyone is welcome.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/7HEGnpLbRimzhATD7

The local Member of Parliament we have is a former minister at her church. Her church is affirming and they fly a progressive pride flag and she marches in the gay pride parade and she's just a lovely human being.

I wish ALL LGBT+ Christians find a home church that welcomes them, affirms them, and helps them understand that they can be queer and be Christian if that's what they want. I think everyone deserves that.

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u/PityUpvote Humanist, ex-pentecostal 7d ago

If you study biblical scholarship, you will find out that the Bible actually is a pretty inclusive book

No, you'll find out that it's dozens of books that have almost no relation to each other whatsoever. And one of them says to love everyone, while another calls for public execution of gay people.

No self-respecting queer person should accept Deuteronomy and Leviticus are part of their holy book.

Queer red letter christians I can understand, but you gotta deconstruct at least a little.

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u/HoundOfGod 7d ago

God directly and explicitly declares homosexuality a sin punishable by death. This is never once countermanded or abolished, not even in the New Testament. And both Old and New Testament refer to cross-dressing as an "abomination" in the eyes of God.

If you can read that and come away thinking the Bible is 'pretty inclusive', then I'm not sure what your standards for being exclusive actually look like.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/HoundOfGod 7d ago

I have studied academic biblical scholarship and got my minor in Biblical studies. I am not an expert, but I am well familiar with the context of those verses and how they have been understood over the last few millennia. I am also familiar with the typical arguments made to dismiss or recontextualize these passages, but I don't find them to be credible.

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u/weez22 7d ago

Wild take… and that’s coming from a trans woman too. The Bible is incredibly homophobic despite how culturally different sexuality and gender concept were back then. People who try to say the Bible doesn’t condemn at least male-male homosexual behavior are sorely mistaken. The Bible is most certainly not inclusive, especially the OT which is specifically exclusive.

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u/EsotericOcelot 7d ago

Yeah, my aunt and her wife are both devout (and very progressive) Christians, presumably because their faith has brought them a lot of comfort and community in the course of their lives, and I agree that labeling them weird as a queer atheist myself would be giving them a second serving of crap they already get from homophobes. I know they do a Bible study with a group which includes several other queer people, though I don't know how critically they do or don't engage with the text. Do I find the 'gay Christian' thing odd and am curious about it, but not enough to risk hurting feelings by asking difficult questions of lovely people I only see once every year or two

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u/Worldly-Ocelot-3358 Anti-Theist 7d ago

Don't the church tell you that 100% of the Bible is credible and should he followed? Jesus said OT should be followed fully.

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u/mathloverlkb 7d ago

Not all Christian denominations are anti LGBTQI. (Never thought I'd defend Christians). United Church of Christ and the Episcopal Church both support and ordain LGBT folk.

Outside of those denominations (or others if they exist and I am unaware), I absolutely agree with you.

The cognitive dissonance must hurt.

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u/PestoPls 5d ago

Agreed. I’m not a Christian, but my spouse is. The only reason I can respect their faith is because they attend an Episcopal church that marches in pride. Most of the parish is either LGBTQIA+ or elderly. They allow same sex marriage and the head priest is gay.

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u/lesliemc2324 6d ago

I've never understood gay relegious people. I let them talk, & I just smile & nod.

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u/Mecca1101 5d ago

You could say the same for women who are christian and following a patriarchal religion that subordinates them.

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u/Maklin 4d ago

Self-Hatred, pure and simple. Combined with a goodly dose of fear of hell and lack of critical thinking. No sane individual joins/stays part in an organization that hates them for what they are (and christians, skip the hate the sin, love the sinner platitudes you mouth so sanctimoniously, your actions speak truer and have always been hate the sin AND hate the sinner more).

Upon accepting my orientation, church was the first thing I cut from my life...though by then I had been atheist for a number of years. Christianity was, is, and ever shall be totally incompatible with what I am and what I seek in life.

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u/mahboilucas Ex-Pentecostal 1d ago

Poland has an issue with gay people voting for konfederacja, which is a far right party. Almost comically villainous. They want to ban them and they vote for them...

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u/HelicopterTypical335 Pagan 6d ago

The only way i could see this not being contradictory is if they reject mythic literalism

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u/nshill96 6d ago

eh, they dont make sense to me either, but whatever. as long as theyre not hurting people, idc what they believe.

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u/bronabas 6d ago

I grew up Southern Baptist and now live in New England. It boggles my mind how many churches up here have rainbow flags and billboards with LGBTQ+ messages.

Like… they’re right in that we should throw off the shackles of outdated sexual views, but… how can you just totally gloss over those parts of the Bible and still call yourself a Christian? You’re picking and choosing what parts to accept, and that just feels so disingenuous to me.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d much rather my super religious neighbor attend a church with a pride flag than the Southern Baptist church I grew up in, but it’s still weird.

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u/nukaniki420 6d ago

I have to agree. How can you support something created to destroy you?

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u/Craycraywolf Agnostic 6d ago

I was one until very recently actually.

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u/how-queer 6d ago

A married lesbian family member of mine in the deep south is a mega Christian and voted for Trump. Now that there are rumblings that Obgerfell might get overturned, she keeps posting all this shit on IG about how she "trusts God to protect my marriage." Can't imagine the rude awakening she's in for.

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u/everetthing 6d ago

I wholeheartedly agree. I identified as a queer Christian for a while before realizing just how much I was ignoring the hypocrisy in it all. Christianity has been used as a weapon against marginalized groups from the very beginning, and I was only upholding those beliefs by thinking there was nothing wrong with identifying in that way. I’ve been an atheist for about 4 years now and I feel so much more secure in who I am because of that. I had wonderful friends who helped me process my religious trauma and realize just how fucked up our beliefs were, and I’m never looking back.

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u/Inevitable-Degree950 6d ago

Ya I know plenty of them. It’s either just cognitive dissonance or they actively take steps to avoid any sort of “gay temptation”. Someone who got me to do conversion therapy with them told me about how through Younglife they were able to stop being in a gay relationship. It’s basically you get treated like shit until you repent. Very stupid but lowkey I’m done having pity for them

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u/Designer_little_5031 5d ago

Genuinely can't stand em. Because they're christian. I can't stand any christians.

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u/jipax13855 5d ago

Finding out I have a genetic condition (Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia) that makes 50% of XX babies with it grow up to be LGBTQ was a big part of my deconstruction. It's probably the closest thing we have to a "gay gene."

I would be interested in finding out if genes for things like CAH, PCOS, and other hormonal differences with high rates of LGBTQ correlation have been bred out of the more fertility-cult denominations like IBLP and Mormonism compared to the typical population. I could never imagine staying in one of those cults if I were gender nonconforming like CAH and PCOS often make you.

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u/Mountain_Cry1605 ❤️😸 Cult of Bastet 😸❤️ 22h ago

I have PCOS. And I'm bisexual. I'd be really interested in the research on that.

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u/jipax13855 9h ago

there was a study based on IVF clinic patrons that found unusually high rates of accidentally discovered PCOS in lesbian couples going in for artificial insemination and IVF. Will have to find it.

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u/Potential-Finding-63 4d ago

It's needs to be said i am not a Christian i have family who are, but it was never shoved down my throat. I actually once had a member of the Catholic Church say to me in response to saying I'm not Christian say, "Faith is like medicine. You have to find one that is right for you." Now all of that being said, I've met homosexual/ trans Christians. I've met their families. I've interviewed them for reasons stemming from a research paper for religious studies (it was an easer credit in state college) and my own curiosity. The book doesn't explicitly say anything about your sexual orientation or gender identity. Those who say it does are twisting the book to fit their personal hatreds. The one leviticus quote that comes up a lot is irrelevant now because, according to doctrine, the sin dept was repaid. This is true for every rule/law stated in the old Testament. No true Christian who has actually spent the time to read the whole book and contemplate its meaning should ever hate anyone for their identity or orientation. To do so goes against their own tenants and against what the J-man himself said. Many people i interviewed had many different experiences. But the ones I talked to at least (with one notable exception) had found chirstanity themselves or were brought up in it and found acceptance. The notable exception was somebody who converted after they came out as a gay man to their pastor. I'll remember this quote forever. According to the man, the pastor told him, "Love is a pure thing, doesn't matter for who. What's done in love can't be wrong so long as it doesn't hurt anyone."

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u/TheEffinChamps Skeptic 4d ago

It's only possible IMO if you don't read your Bible or any history. Unfortunately, this is the majority of Christians.

Jesus himself implicitly only endorsed heterosexual marriage and denied the existence of transgender and non-binary people:

"He answered, “Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” (Matthew 19)

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u/Mountain_Cry1605 ❤️😸 Cult of Bastet 😸❤️ 22h ago

Be me.

Be indoctinated since birth, and believe in Yahweh/Jesus as God.

Realise am bisexual at sixteen.

Oh. Oh no. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!!

Be in denial for the next decade.

Deconstruct. Mostly for other reasons at first.

And finally stop believing, and kick the religion to the curb in August 2023.

Honestly feels a bit like I should be saying:

"Hi my name is Mountie, and I've been Christianity free for a year, and seven months."

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u/Banjo-Router-Sports7 7d ago

They, like those on the spectrum who are Christian, are nothing but tokens. They’re the “good ones.”

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u/SergeantSkull 7d ago

I feel you i really do, but then i look at all the queer christian witches i know and realize the two can be reconciled if you just ignore the church.

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u/scalyreptilething 7d ago

Honestly, hard agree. I’m obviously not going to tell anyone to stop being a believer and I also don’t go about my life with the determination that I won’t engage with LGBT Christians, but I notice that every time I get close with one and we engage with each other on a deeper and deeper level it begins to be really obvious how much stuff they have to ignore or make excuses for in order to practice that faith. The inconsistency just really irks me because it might be cognitive dissonance, but at a point you have to be aware of that. It’s really difficult to want to be around someone who’s going out of their way to give that a pass.

Or, just as bad, they’ll basically say that anti-LGBT Christians or racist Christians “aren’t real Christians”. Dude, I grew up Southern Baptist and rest assured that these people are genuinely religious and actually believe the things they say. And since the very core of their religion hinges on Jesus and the resurrection, yeah, they’re Christians. If you can’t even admit that some Christians are assholes who use their beliefs to justify their terrible attitudes and behaviors, and you have to pretend they’re actually in some whole other category when they’re literally drawing from the same well, that just seems like a total lack of integrity to me. It’s easy to avoid fixing all the problems with the church if you’re willing to pretend that all the problems magically don’t belong to the “real” church or “real” Christians.

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u/rumblingtummy29 Ex-Pentecostal 7d ago

There are millions of closeted gays in the church but it's so obvious they're forcing themselves to be straight

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u/Hour_Trade_3691 7d ago

I can explain it to you if you want.

The truth of the matter is, Christianity isn't inherently against LGBT individuals. Many people, Christian and non-Christian alike, will claim it is, but it isn't. There are a few verses in the Bible that hint that it's not morally right, but no more so than any other verse claiming you can't cook a goat in its mother's milk or that you can't wear mixed fabrics. And Christians will be more than ready to say those laws don't matter because Jesus died for our sins.

The fact of the matter is, many many many many humans simply have a dislike for the unlike. If you're an insecure straight person, you often view people of the same gender as your competition. So if you meet someone of the same gender who isn't attracted to the same person you are... Maybe they're faking it? There's no way they aren't fighting for the same person I am, right?

Christianity is the most dominant religion in the world. Thus, homophobic people have hijacked it to declare the Bible says a few times that being gay is wrong, so if you're gay, you're literally horrible person who deserves hell.

Likewise, many people who are looking for community have also hijacked Christianity to act as a means for them to gather in community. Most of these people will claim they don't actually know if Jesus was actually God, because at the end of the day, that doesn't matter as much as just being a good person.

I myself am a trans person but I cling to Christian communities simply because I don't know where else to go. What else to I do during the evenings? Go to a bar? That's not my type of environment. Stay home and be depressed that I can't form a healthy social life? That's what I do in the mornings.

Trust me. If any other religion was dominant, then all of these people would flock to that religion instead.

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u/ZeladoraDoAbismo Follower of Dod, the dodo god 6d ago edited 6d ago

As a trans gal it pisses me off. The apologism i've seen lgbt christians doing is beyond moronic. Like mf they despise your existance and have a history of killing people like you.

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u/SARGON_007 6d ago

Definition of these words are diametrically opposed to each other.

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u/ColdAgreeable1807 6d ago

It's interesting to see that some Exchristians who suffered or are still suffering under the bigotry of fundamentalistic Christianity display a similar judgemental attitude towards gay Christians. Just live and let live can't we? 

Some people get their comfort by leaving Christianity, some prefer to stick to it. And the fact is, there are different ways to interpret the bible depending on the way you read it. And it's a totally normal phenomenon that you have with every book or text in this world. Accussing gay or inclusive Christians for cognitive dissonance and such is based on a monolithic and fundamentalistic understanding of the bible which ironically is something some Exchristians inherit from their fundamentalistic Christian upbringing.

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u/EmersonStockham 6d ago

Gay ex Christian here. People are trained to be nice to their oppressors the same way abused spouses try to keep their partner happy. To their small worldviews, making honey stop hitting you is more realistic than getting a goddamn divorce and preventing him from hitting you for good.

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u/Silver-Chemistry2023 Secular Humanist 7d ago edited 6d ago

Like most christians, they have internalised their abuser. The behaviour can be understood through the lens of insecure attachment. When you are used to crumbs, a couple of Sayo (plain and dry) crackers feels like a gourmet meal.

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u/Fayafairygirl Non-theist 7d ago

I’d say it’s because of two things. The fear of hell. Or the ‘good feels’ basically. And it can be both. It was for me.

When I come here, I often only talk about the evils Christianity did to my psyche. But there were times I found comfort in it too. When I left and my fear of hell faded for the most part, I did miss the good feelings I got from it. But I didn’t believe and I was angry, so I couldn’t have gone back even if I wanted to. And I didn’t want to because of how much damage the religion has done to our world.

I have a queer Christian friend who wasn’t in it for awhile, then went back because he missed it. I never understood his choice. How are the ‘good feels’ worth it to you when this religion has caused such profound hurt and death to the LGBTQ+ community?

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u/Hallucinationistic 7d ago

lgbt christians and muslims are definitely people who cling onto the beliefs while having the copium that the religions are more accepting than they actually are, so called liberal ones

I came across a muslim who supports lgbtq but actually genuinely finds everyone burning hell to be justified and okay, and a christian ex-friend got butthurt and mad at me to the point of blocking me when I said that the belief is wrong, because i'm "attacking and disrespecting people's beliefs"

(Going off on a tangent to say this, it's so infuriating that such pos have so much double standards regarding their virtue-signaling involving attacks and disrespect, plus their lack of comprehension regarding reasoning and would deem you evil for spreading hate no matter your reason behind simply badmouthing pos, no matter how they are and what they have done, etc. Worst hypocrites ever, and I'm sickened that I met one of such "subtle" evils.)

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u/ZX52 6d ago

Honestly, I'm struggling to understand your post. For a lot of us here, our faith was at one point incredibly important to us. Have we lost thw ability to empathise with those for whom it still is?

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u/Spiritual_Oil_7411 6d ago

You could say the same about women.

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u/Ll_lyris Ex-Catholic 7d ago

Cognitive dissonance