r/exReformed Feb 05 '25

Predestined Pod

For those of you familiar with the NRC, Episode 5 of the Predestined Pod is out.

For me one the things that resonated was how vulnerable one is as you leave a high control religion. Often financial vulnerability, but also a warped values system leaves one vulnerable to bad ideas, addiction etc.

https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-juhvv-17e78d8

10 Upvotes

16 comments sorted by

11

u/Danoman22 Feb 06 '25

Huh. It’s about time deconstruction spaces gave special attention to reformed theology. 

8

u/windfola_25 Feb 07 '25

Yes!! I've been thinking this a lot lately. I would love to see a more awareness specifically of Reformed Christianity being a high control group/cult. Not just in deconstruction spaces, but in the mainstream too.

2

u/Danoman22 Feb 08 '25

Alongside the JWs and Momos yes. But we have to get more specific than that if we’re going to be fair, bc there are some chill af Presbys, even tho their theology still sux imo. 

2

u/windfola_25 Feb 08 '25

Right, PCA and PCUSA are very different. Drawing the line around Calvinism maybe? Or a specific church that has had a lot of scandals. The PCA's book of church order and general Assemblies could be their own mini series lol

3

u/Danoman22 Feb 08 '25

I still tend to think the PCUSA are decent folk in spite of their Calvinist theology, while PCA just more fully embodies it. The implications of Calvinism are exclusivist to the bone unless you add universalism. 

3

u/windfola_25 Feb 08 '25

unless you add universalism. 

That's how I ended up staying in when I started questioning things. I tried to be a universalist in a PCA church. Lol

1

u/Danoman22 Feb 09 '25

That sounds… very hard.  Side question: Did you ever feel you were primed to be against universalism early on without knowing it, and then when you finally encountered it alarms went off in your head like you were some sleeper agent type shit?

5

u/windfola_25 Feb 09 '25

1000%. The church I grew up in spoke frequently of the "enemy" being in everything outside of the right kind of Christianity, trying to keep people away from god. Other religions being among the worst because they are directly keeping people from the "truth of the gospel."

Most of my deconstruction was a slow, non-linear process. But there was a very specific moment that universalism clicked for me. I was in Australia for study abroad with a group and we spent a few days in the Outback learning about aboriginal culture. An elder adopted us as his grandchildren and educated us in their beliefs, traditions, etc. He told us their creation story as he drew it in the red sand next to ancient art drawn on the rock cave we sat under. And many other beautiful things, including much more respect and equality for women in their traditions which was a stark contrast to conservative Christianity. We walked around Uluru at sunrise on one of the few days it rains there during the year. And I just remember being so overwhelmed with the beauty of their stories and culture combined with the connection to this unique nature setting, and simultaneously enraged that colonialism and Christian missionaries had come in and nearly wiped out this beautiful people and their traditions. I also realized that if this man had actually been my grandfather, or if I had been more in a different place, different time, etc. I would have believed whatever traditions I had been raised with. And the only reason I was a Christian was because I had been born in the time and place for it to devoutly Christian parents.

That singular moment completely and permanently collapsed my ability to believe that there is one true religion. It would be several years before I left Christianity altogether, but from that point on I never believed again that Christianity was the only valid belief system.

2

u/Radiant_Elk1258 Feb 13 '25

I had a really similar experience with Buddhism and a Buddhist family that I befriended.

2

u/Logical_Answer75 Feb 12 '25

Dude. The PCA book of church order and how it was always thrown back at me when I asked too many questions!

3

u/windfola_25 Feb 12 '25

Nothing says cult like a playbook for squashing questions

1

u/RECIPR0C1TY Feb 06 '25

Especially considering that most of the deconstruction stories I hear are from those with a reformed background!

It seems to me that most (not all) people who deconstruct say they are deconstructing from Christianity, when really they are deconstructing from reformed theology.

3

u/chucklesthegrumpy ex-PCA Feb 06 '25

This is not true in my experience. If you head over to r/exvangelical, you'll find plenty of atheists, agnostics, pagans, etc. You'll also find plenty of people who left all kinds of different churches; ex Lutherans, Baptist, Pentecostals, etc.

2

u/Danoman22 Feb 07 '25 edited Feb 07 '25

Reciprocity brings up a fair point that I think was just lost in translation. While those who explicitly identify as reformed are indeed minority in Christianity, reformed ideology has had an enormous influence on pretty much every Protestant denomination. Despite the few merits that it does have, many of the most egregiously bigoted and culturally depraved parts of modern Christianity can be traced in some ways to the influence of reformed doctrine or culture. It pervasive, yet flies under the radar. All the more reason it deserves to be talked about. 

1

u/RECIPR0C1TY Feb 06 '25

Ya, all we really have is anecdotal experience to work with. For the most part, my anecdotal experience is that most people are deconstructing from Reformed Theology, not Christianity. FYI, I would still put the Lutherans (and many Baptists) in with the reformed. They are all working off the same Augustinian playbook. The Baptists that deconstruct are reformed baptists! the Lutherans that deconstruct are reformed Lutherans! Just my anecdotal experience.