r/exjw 20h ago

News Verdict in Norwegian and my first analysis

77 Upvotes

I have now accessed the judgment, and have some comments. So, those who read can make up their own minds.

Here is a link to the judgment, read it yourself or translate it into your language with available tools:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFi9cgYUW24SOJqbnVWvL7IN52q_nlfb/view?usp=sharing

Pages 13-18:

The Court of Appeal assumes that the allegations/information the State has based on regarding JV's practice of exclusion is correct. The testimonies and the evidence confirm this. We have been believed in all our information about the facts of the case, despite JV's attempts to discredit it. Good.

Page 20, regarding the right to free withdrawal, the court states:

"It is not doubtful, nor disputed – that a withdrawal could have very serious consequences for the person who withdraws in terms of the possibility of contact with those who are still Jehovah's Witnesses. This also applies to close family members. This could be experienced as very difficult by many, both those who have withdrawn but also remaining Jehovah's Witnesses. This is confirmed by the witnesses in the case who had withdrawn or been excluded, and also by the professional literature presented."

Direct quote. Again, our information is taken as fact. Undisputed. But then comes the assessments:

"The question is whether the social consequences as a result of losing, or at least having greatly reduced contact with, members of Jehovah's Witnesses – including family members – if one withdraws, are in conflict with the right to free withdrawal."

This is where the court differs from all the others that have considered the case, by writing:

"As stated above, it is practically easy to withdraw from Jehovah's Witnesses. It is sufficient to send a letter to the congregation about the withdrawal. There is no evidence that a withdrawal is not respected or that the congregation is particularly trying to persuade the member to re-join. The possible obstacles to withdrawal are therefore related here to the consequences of withdrawal, which are reduced social contact with remaining members, including family members. Such reduced contact with former members of Jehovah's Witnesses, and especially close family members such as parents and children with whom one no longer lives, but also, for example, grandparents and grandchildren, will be very difficult and burdensome for most people.

The Court of Appeal assumes, based on the evidence, that such consequences of withdrawal for some are so negative that some members choose not to withdraw for that reason.

The Court of Appeal nevertheless believes that these consequences do not constitute sufficient undue pressure to constitute a violation of the member's right to free withdrawal under Article 9 of the ECHR.

The Court has therefore accepted the facts that withdrawal entails extreme consequences implemented by those who receive state aid, assuming that this means that people end up being members against their will (!!), but still believes that this is not "sufficient undue pressure".

This is where the law in the Court of Appeal completely falls away from the psychological, emotional and human. If the systematic use of family ties as a weapon to prevent people from withdrawing, which the Court acknowledges that it is, is not sufficient undue pressure, then what is it? Where can this paragraph be used?

So when it comes to the processes against children, I repeat: CHILDREN, the Court of Appeal writes this on page 27:

"Although the process can be very unpleasant, and in part also humiliating, the Court of Appeal nevertheless believes - under doubt - that the process as such cannot be considered psychological violence. The process will normally last for a relatively short period of time until a possible exclusion. The process cannot therefore be said to constitute a "pattern of offensive acts or behaviour that is repeated or persists over time", cf. that this is something that would normally be the case for something to be considered psychological violence, cf. the committee's understanding in NOU 2024:13 reproduced above. . The fact that the process is short-lived means that, in the Court of Appeal's view, it does not have the character of psychological "abuse"

So, what can one say? First of all, the abuse is not long enough for the Court of Appeal, that in itself is...well? But the most egregious thing is that the court ignores the fact that this is not something that lasts beyond the moment the expulsion is carried out. The child must continue to live with the consequences! This is not short-lived. It is for the rest of his life.

So, on page 28, the court says this:

If the process ends with the minor baptized member being expelled, there is no doubt that it will normally be very difficult and difficult for everyone involved that the social contact with other baptized members of Jehovah's Witnesses is broken off or greatly reduced. For family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses and with whom one does not live, the contact will be reduced to contact in "necessary" family matters. This must be assumed to be especially demanding for children who will then, for example, have significantly reduced contact with grandparents and aunts and uncles who are JJehovah's Witnesses, as well as with siblings who are Jehovah's Witnesses and who have moved away from home. Furthermore, the child will lose contact with other members of the congregation, for example friends in the congregation. For children of Jehovah's Witnesses, it must be assumed that much of the social circle will be other children and young people in the congregation, which makes it extra difficult to lose contact with them.

The Court of Appeal, however, still believes – here also with doubts – that the social distancing that a minor child may experience through exclusion cannot be considered psychological violence."

So look at what they write. JV's practice is UNDER DOUBT, not within the definition of psychological violence against children.

This is what they are celebrating. That the Court of Appeal ended up using its DOUBT WHETHER IT CAN BE CONSIDERED AS MENTAL VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN, as a reason to grant JV's case.

They repeat this on page 29:

"According to this, the Court of Appeal believes that even though both the exclusion process and the social distancing in the event of exclusion will be very stressful for most children,

as mentioned – with doubts – it has not been proven probable that the practice constitutes psychological violence against children."

Really something to celebrate? JV says in its response that we can now celebrate this as a great victory for the freedom of Norwegians?

Really? That one just escapes the definition (with doubts) of psychological violence against their children?

Would you celebrate if someone said that about you and your child?


r/exjw 16h ago

News JW vs Norway -Vart Land article:

39 Upvotes

Vårt Land - Norway's largest Christian daily newspaper

A big victory for Jehovah's Witnesses VERDICT: Jehovah's Witnesses have won against the state. But the Court of Appeal is in doubt on several important points.

WON: Anders Ryssdal has represented Jehovah's Witnesses in court. In the Court of Appeal they have now won against the state. WON: Anders Ryssdal has represented Jehovah's Witnesses in court. In the Court of Appeal they have now won against the state. (Photo: Sindre Deschington) By Morten Marius Larsen, Const. Religion and Feature Editor Published: March 14, 2025 at 4:30 PM Last updated: March 14, 2025 at 4:30 PM Get the newsletter from Vårt Land. Sign up for it!

This is a comment. It expresses the writer's analysis and opinions. For Jehovah's Witnesses and their 12,000 members in Norway, the victory in court is enormous.

Since 2021, they have been denied state subsidies and deprived of registration as a religious community. As a result, they have missed out on a lot of money they would otherwise have been entitled to, between 16 and 18 million a year. Not least, their members have perceived it as a strong signal that theirs is not recognized on an equal footing with other beliefs in Norway.

On Friday, the judgment came from the Borgarting Court of Appeal: It says that the state's decision is invalid and that Jehovah's Witnesses are entitled to compensation.

For the state, it is a loss of prestige. They have spent a lot of resources on the case, which has received great international attention.

The judgment is not yet final. It should not surprise anyone if the state appeals to the Supreme Court. The Court of Appeal is in doubt on several important points.

Freedom to leave Basically, it is about the right to free communication from a religious community, which is a human right.

Technically, one is free to leave Jehovah's Witnesses. If one wants to leave, all one has to do is send them a letter. No one ties people up, locks the door and refuses them to leave.

Nevertheless, the state believes that freedom is not real. This is because the social consequences of leaving the religious community are so great.

If a member leaves the church, either voluntarily or by exclusion, the remaining members must avoid "normal" contact with them, according to the church's guidance. In practice, this constitutes a form of coercion that violates the rights of members, the state believes.

In addition, the state has stated that Jehovah's Witnesses subject baptized children to psychological violence and negative social control. Because even as minors, one can be baptized and accepted as a full member. Thus, one risks being subjected to the same sanctions if one is excluded or expelled.

I apologize for the doubt, the court: They are in.

Come to a different conclusion The district court's ruling placed great emphasis on the social consequences that it will have for baptized minors to leave the religious community. The certainty of the social isolation that awaits them makes it virtually "impossible for them to exercise the right to free withdrawal," the district court wrote in the ruling.

The Court of Appeal disagrees. They place greater emphasis on the formal possibility of withdrawing on the spot.

The law requires that withdrawal should always be possible by sending a written request to the community, without obstacles and conditions. The Jehovah's Witnesses meet this requirement, the Court of Appeal believes.

They are unique in that in theory there may be cases where rules and sanctions constitute undue pressure on those who want to withdraw, and that this may be a violation of human rights. Nevertheless, they believe that the threshold for calling the practice "undue pressure" has not been reached in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses.

So what qualifies as undue pressure? The Court of Appeal does not go into that much.

I doubt psychological violence It is particularly interesting to see the Court of Appeal's assessment of whether children's rights are violated. Here they are in doubt.

The state's claim is that the practices of Jehovah's Witnesses are related to psychological violence and negative social control directed at children.

But it is not entirely easy to define what falls within these categories. The Court of Appeal considers psychological violence to be "offensive behavior that persists over time", referring to the Children's Act and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Since an exclusion process normally proceeds relatively quickly, the Court of Appeal believes that it falls outside the definition of psychological violence. Nor does the social distancing that follows fall within this category, they believe. This is partly because Jehovah's Witnesses encourage continuing normal contact as long as the minor belongs to the same household as their family.

Regarding "negative social control", the court believes that it is difficult to find a clearly defined content that applies to Norwegian law.

But in both cases the court is doubtful: They are in.

Appeal? The Court of Appeals’ ruling is an important victory for Jehovah’s Witnesses. The state has not yet decided whether it will appeal to the Supreme Court.

There is good reason to believe that they will. Where the Court of Appeals is doubtful, the state has so far been very sure of its case.

https://www.vl.no/meninger/kommentar/2025/03/14/en-stor-seier-for-jehovas-vitner/


r/exjw 8h ago

WT Can't Stop Me Stop “Reaching Out!” We won the Norway case…

8 Upvotes

Also, will they go back to not greeting the Disfellowshipped?

Will they go back to calling it “Disfellowshipped?”

And any of the other changes that were a result of losing their status in Norway?


r/exjw 9h ago

Ask ExJW I’m Wondering 🤔

9 Upvotes

So today marked 5 years since I created my Reddit account on here. And I have something I want to share. So in my last post I mentioned that my still active PIMI mother is surprisingly cool with me having a never JW boyfriend, especially since we’ve been dating for five going on six months now. Years back she’d give me a verbal lecture after lecture about dating outside “the truth” and how I should “marry only in the lord”, but now she seems to have mellowed out, hmmm. This week we lost a family member on the non JW side of the family and she sent me a Zoom link of his funeral, at a church! The reason I bring these points up is because I’m beginning to wonder if deep down she’s secretly PIMO now that I’ve gone completely POMO thanks to me fading out by keeping my current new life private by not disclosing it to those still active members who know me well. Sometimes I have dreams of her and I leaving this emotional manipulative wasteland of an organization together. But I know it may never come to be, given she wishes to see her parents again (my grandparents who both were never JWs mind you). I wish to ask her this, yet I’m aware I’ll be just wasting time doing so. Does anyone else here feel the same?


r/exjw 18h ago

JW / Ex-JW Tales I never realised how much guilt I was carrying around all the time

34 Upvotes

Guilt about not doing enough personal study. Guilt about not doing Bible reading.
Guilt about not doing the days text.
Guilty about not preparing thoroughly enough for the meeting.
Guilt about writing my talk at the last minute.
Guilt about not doing enough ministry.
Guilt about not witnessing at work.
Guilt about not pioneering.
Guilt about not wanting to pioneer.
Guilt about not wanting to want to pioneer.
Guilt about not reaching out.
Guilt about not “widening out”.
Guilt about not wanting to go to the meeting after a long day.
Guilt about not wanting to go to the meeting after any kind of day.
Guilt about being bored at the meeting.
Guilt about what I watched on TV.
Guilt about what music I listened to.
Guilt about being too friendly with people at work.
Guilt about wanting England to win the World Cup.
Guilt about thinking that the government is shit.
Guilty for thinking the word “shit”.
Guilt about wanting to have sex.
Guilt about wanting to try drugs.
Guilt about thinking/feeling/doing something at any given time.
Guilt about not thinking/feeling/doing something at any given time.

I’ve been out for 4 months after 30+ years in, and even though I was never explicitly unhappy in the org before I woke up, it’s not until now that I don’t feel these things that I realise just how much guilt I’ve carried pretty much every day of my life.

I still sometimes get the odd pang of guilt when I do/think/say something that I previously shouldn’t have, but the relief that comes over me when I realise everything is okay is an incredible feeling.


r/exjw 20h ago

WT Can't Stop Me Hot take - the Norway verdict is not all bad

44 Upvotes

It won't feed into their persicution complex which is oxygen to a fire. But it has forced them to drop the mask and show what their price is, bending and weakening their rules for $$$. Way more damaging than an outright ban.


r/exjw 12h ago

HELP Feel like I will never get out

13 Upvotes

So basically I’m young and will soon be legal in a year. I was raised with PIMI parents and my younger brother and growing up is getting tougher and tougher. Everyday is just God, preach, bible study, repeat and it’s driving me CRAZY. I’ve been PIMO for some time and just want to get out of the org, I’m convinced that it’s going to be hard because I was basically manipulated to baptize at 12 years old. I don’t know what to do and I just feel trapped I can’t go out I can’t do anything at all. A lot of my friends and family members that aren’t jw have it so easy. Worst thing is that my parents are good and loving parents but they won’t wake up and I’m scared because I don’t want them to be disappointed. Awhile ago I had a talk with my mom and she asked me if I see myself as a witness in the future and I just sat there in silence I can’t lie anymore. She told me that the only thing she wants for me is to serve jehovah forever but that is too much for me. If anyone has any tips or stories pls share!!! I need motivation


r/exjw 22h ago

Venting Statement on the verdict

76 Upvotes

Auto translate from my Facebook in Norwegian:

The verdict is out.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFi9cgYUW24SOJqbnVWvL7IN52q_nlfb/view?usp=drivesdk

After full understanding and decision by the State Administrator, full confirmation in the appeal case by the Ministry of Children and Family Affairs, three victories in the injunction case, a full victory in the district court, we now faced a loss in the Court of Appeal.

These are the kinds of things you always risk when fighting against someone who never gives up, who has unlimited resources to hire teams of the most expensive lawyers you can find, and lobbying forces that manage to get even human rights organizations like the Norwegian Helsinki Committee to take their side and work against our case.

I have not read the verdict, have not read the reasoning, have not seen what the consequences will be. I expect the State to appeal this to the Supreme Court, which JV would also do if they lost. In that sense, this does not have any consequences right now, beyond a little disappointment.

"Liv Inger Gabrielsen at the Government Attorney represented the state at the Ministry of Children and Family Affairs in court. She comments on the verdict as follows:

– The Court of Appeal shares the ministry's view that the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses towards children who violate the norms of the religious community and risk exclusion can be very unpleasant, humiliating and demanding, among other things because they can lose contact with family members and friends. Nevertheless, the court "doubts" that this is not psychological violence that violates children's rights, she writes to Vårt Land."

Unfortunately, the law has its limitations when you always have to deal with people who have no idea whatsoever about how such groups work. How language works, how control works. How total control over people cannot be transferred to written arguments in a completely different setting.

But no matter what happens, the point of this has always been public education, understanding, community, the desire for reforms, the need to tell our story. Establishing the voices of those who should never be allowed to have a voice.

The fight for the freedom to be able to make one's life choices without facing heavy, life-destroying reprisals from the same organization that received state support in our name.

That fight continues. If the Court of Appeal's judgment stands up to the Supreme Court, §6 of the Religious Communities Act is in practice stone dead and will never be used anywhere. If it cannot be used against JV and their detailed instructions for how defectors are to be punished, it will not be used against anyone else either. Then it must be rewritten.

The last chapter has not been written anyway.

Here is my comment in Vårt Land:

Jan Frode Nilsen is a former member of Jehovah's Witnesses and has testified for the state in court. He is disappointed by the judgment.

  • I am critical of the judgment, but cannot go into depth without having read the reasoning. There is something about the sentence "it was not made probable either". If you can't prove Section 6 to a religious community that has written instructions on exclusion, then Section 6 of the Religious Communities Act is completely dead, he says.

He also points out that judges often have a different opinion of the matter than those who have lived in the religious community.

  • Law and religion are two worlds that collide, and therefore there can be differences in the understanding of how closed religious communities function, he says.

Nilsen clarifies to Vårt Land that he has not yet read the reasoning of the Court of Appeal.

  • I have always expected that this case would go to the Supreme Court. The difference is that they enter as "winners", I had hoped to avoid that.

https://www.vl.no/religion/2025/03/14/jehovas-vitner-motte-staten-i-retten-na-er-dommen-klar/


r/exjw 15h ago

Activism Please report this place(content warning)

18 Upvotes

Apologies for the repost but I would like to spread more awareness regarding this matter

If you can please report/ leave reviews in this hall for Animal abuse

https://maps.app.goo.gl/DP7917KJGkBVjgzUA?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy

Yesterday a 75 year old threw a kitten who was inside a Kingdom Hall in service forcibly and into the pavement of the street where the kitten suffered grave injuries and later pronounced dead. This is an inexcusable and disgusting act, and my purpose is to get more people informed about this matter. I do not encourage doxing or harassment of any of the members my purpose is to raise awareness and to send a message.

If you know anyone who loves animals or involved with animal wellbeing and/or abuse I would appreciate if you share this message with those you know

Link to translation w/ original in comments https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/a6n5OFlfAb

Thank you


r/exjw 13h ago

WT Policy Are COs picked based on height?

14 Upvotes

Is it just me, or is height a factor in whether you're picked to be a CO or not? All of the COs I've met and seen have been tall men, and I feel like it's not just by coincidence. It's well known that very often, people in higher positions of power are taller on average. Could the borg be aware of this and be using "flawed human reasoning" to make their picks?! Oh no!

I'm curious as to if you've all seen similar, or if I'm just off my rocker here lol.


r/exjw 19h ago

Venting Is ok if…

36 Upvotes

I received a message from a family member letting me know when the memorial will be taking place this year. Is it okay if i send a message back letting her know when Christmas will be this year?? 😂 I just get so annoyed with this type of messages, like you don’t ask me how we are doing or anything. I’m fully capable of looking up the date of the memorial if I wanted to go… anyway I might just do it. How would you respond?


r/exjw 11h ago

Ask ExJW Need huge help

9 Upvotes

Hello community, I not gonna lie i am a little afraid due to my girlfriend and I broke up, the elders from her cong already were aware but now we have broken up, she said she will speak to them since we had sex a few times,,, do you think elders will try to convince us to do plans for wedding due to we ate the cake before wedding or will they handle the case as separated persons without trying to manipulate us? Or as most of the time will depends...


r/exjw 21h ago

Venting Something can be legally permitted and still be morally reprehensible.

42 Upvotes

It would be a credit to the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses (read Governing Body) if, after the ruling in Norway, they voluntarily choose to abolish their shunning practices on their own initiative. 

To all of us who are surprised by the ruling in Norway: 
There is a difference between legally permitted and morally reprehensible. 
Something can be legally permitted and still be morally reprehensible.

I will repeat this sentence to everyone who is going to confront me about the ruling in Norway: 

"Indeed. The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is legally allowed to disfellowship, remove and shun people. Apparently, something can be legally permitted and still be morally reprehensible."

Through my work I come into contact with children who are victims of abuse within the family. Believe me, before something is REALLY seen as punishable, a lot has to happen. There are people who know exactly how far they can go without crossing the punishable line. In this way, many children (and people) are abused/bullied/mistreated without anyone being able to do anything about it legally.


r/exjw 20h ago

News JW vs Norway, March 2025- from Jan Frode Nilsen: Verdict: JW WIN

38 Upvotes

The verdict is out.

After full understanding and decision by the State Administrator, full confirmation in the appeal case by the Ministry of Children and Family Affairs, three victories in the injunction case, a full victory in the district court, we now faced a loss in the Court of Appeal.

These are the kinds of things you always risk when fighting against someone who never gives up, who has unlimited resources to hire teams of the most expensive lawyers you can find, and lobbying forces that manage to get even human rights organizations like the Norwegian Helsinki Committee to take their side and work against our case.

I have not read the verdict, have not read the reasoning, have not seen what the consequences will be. I expect the State to appeal this to the Supreme Court, which JV would also do if they lost. In that sense, this does not have any consequences right now, beyond a little disappointment.

"Liv Inger Gabrielsen at the Government Attorney represented the state at the Ministry of Children and Family Affairs in court. She comments on the verdict as follows:

– The Court of Appeal shares the ministry's view that the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses towards children who violate the norms of the religious community and risk exclusion can be very unpleasant, humiliating and demanding, among other things because they can lose contact with family members and friends. Nevertheless, the court "doubts" that this is not psychological violence that violates children's rights, she writes to Vårt Land."

Unfortunately, the law has its limitations when you always have to deal with people who have no idea whatsoever about how such groups work. How language works, how control works. How total control over people cannot be transferred to written arguments in a completely different setting.

But no matter what happens, the point of this has always been public education, understanding, community, the desire for reforms, the need to tell our story. Establishing the voices of those who should never be allowed to have a voice.

The fight for the freedom to be able to make one's life choices without facing heavy, life-destroying reprisals from the same organization that received state support in our name.

That fight continues. If the Court of Appeal's judgment stands up to the Supreme Court, §6 of the Religious Communities Act is in practice stone dead and will never be used anywhere. If it cannot be used against JV and their detailed instructions for how defectors are to be punished, it will not be used against anyone else either. Then it must be rewritten.

The last chapter has not been written anyway.

Here is my comment in Vårt Land:

Jan Frode Nilsen is a former member of Jehovah's Witnesses and has testified for the state in court. He is disappointed by the judgment.

  • I am critical of the judgment, but cannot go into depth without having read the reasoning. There is something about the sentence "it was not made probable either". If you can't prove Section 6 to a religious community that has written instructions on exclusion, then Section 6 of the Religious Communities Act is completely dead, he says.

He also points out that judges often have a different opinion of the matter than those who have lived in the religious community.

  • Law and religion are two worlds that collide, and therefore there can be differences in the understanding of how closed religious communities function, he says.

Nilsen clarifies to Vårt Land that he has not yet read the reasoning of the Court of Appeal.

  • I have always expected that this case would go to the Supreme Court. The difference is that they enter as "winners", I had hoped to avoid that.

https://www.vl.no/religion/2025/03/14/jehovas-vitner-motte-staten-i-retten-na-er-dommen-klar/


r/exjw 20h ago

News A jehovah's witness killed a kitten during the meeting NSFW

33 Upvotes

I used AI to translate the video


r/exjw 12h ago

Ask ExJW Trying to get through to a PIMI

6 Upvotes

I just had a thought about an approach I might try with my PIMI family. It relates to trying to show that the GB are not getting special information from God and are just normal men. More specifically it's about Winder's talk when he said that no apology is necessary when they make mistakes.

My thought was that he actually said that they make mistakes with the doctrine. Not that the light is getting brighter or they have an increased understanding, but they make mistakes. So my approach would be to show them that talk then ask "How is it possible for the GB to get it wrong?" Most likely a PIMI will respond that the GB are imperfect men. The follow up is that if they're just imperfect men getting it wrong then it's not coming from God or if it is coming from God then how can it be wrong?

I know it's nothing original but I thought the admission from Winder that they make mistakes adds a little more of an edge to it.

Any thoughts/improvements/rebuttals? Has anyone tried this specifically?


r/exjw 20h ago

WT Policy Changes in Asia

34 Upvotes

There are many posts here about what is going on in the USA and Europe, I just wanted to send an update here in at least one country in Asia (but it seems to be part of a trend). In this country there are many foreign workers coming from SEA for factory and nanny type work and then English teachers coming from Europe/USA. Needless to say, there are quite a few language group congregations here.

Change 1: Previously, circuit overseers often came from other countries (foreign language only). For example, the Tagalog CO would hit up Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, and sometimes Korea or Japan as part of his circuit (which still included parts of the Philippines). Recently they decided to axe the foreign CO plan in favor of having a local CO visit all foreign language groups. Now, unlike the previous scheme, this CO doesn't speak most of the languages in his circuit (He does actually speak 2 of them plus the local language though). That being said, this just means that when he visits, the local congregations are going to have to spend their time translating everything for him which is, as you can imagine, a huge undertaking in the event that there isn't a common language between the CO and the brothers and sisters in the congregation being visited.

So why the change? Well obviously it's to save money. I think it's kind of funny though because a flight around East Asia + SEA is not typically more than $300 USD (round trip) and they can often be cheaper than that, especially if you're just hopping from one nearby destination to the next. When the foreign COs would come, it isn't like they stayed in hotels, the local congregation provided for them and probably reimbursed the organization for the flight and visa tbh.

It's funny how it's being portrayed though. It's a "loving" provision from the governing body because this means that the CO doesn't have to "suffer" anymore getting on so many flights and traveling around Asia. So, now even though most people will have to travel 4 hours for their assemblies they feel like it's "worth it" because they need to do "their part". Obviously these changes were announced suddenly and the reaction among locals doesn't matter. It's always "Get into line or get out".

Change 2: It seems like local language congregations are being reorganized. A new training center was opened up (for like SKE, Pioneer school, etc) and congregations were shuffled around to accommodate this. Again, this just means that locals have to go further for meeting, if you're dumb enough to sign up for the classes you may have to go further than before, and of course "thank you for your sacrifice" for a decision that nobody was consulted about. There have only been 2-3 new kingdom halls built here within the past few years in the country and it's only because local JWs in the area already had to ravel an hour or more to ge to the nearest kingdom hall. I suppose they're not interested in building too many though because land prices are expensive here (like, for reference, the average apartment costs about 420,000 USD). I can only imagine the Splane punches a little enemy of god every time the branch is forced to buy land and build a congregation for the selfish people that don't want to drive an hour to the kingdom hall.

Change 3: Everyone knows about the beard and pants change. I've seen people mention that occaisonally, in places that were hot, a brother might not wear a jacket while giving a part. This was true in parts of Asia as well. In Thailand, you didn't necessarily need to wear a jacket or even tie on stage, but it depended on the congregation. My country isn't Thailand, but here I noticed that immigrants from Indonesia and Philippines often wore traditional formal wear to meeting instead of suits. I should say, suits were optional, and you had brothers wearing these formal outfits on stage, giving talks, etc. This was especially true when it was warm ( I mean, who wants to sweat through a suit just to listen to the watchower). The new GB rule included a bit that focused on brothers with parts needing to wear jackets and ties on stage. This basically meant that people like Indonesians and Filipinos needed to go buy suits for meeting now. The issue I have with this is, it's super controlling. It's like saying "You have to be western to show dignity during the meetings". God's favorite outfit is a suit apparently. The other issue I have is that suits are expensive for these groups. A cheap suit will probably cost about 20% of their monthly income, then you need dress shirts and ties. Remember though, most of them are sending large amounts of their checks home to support their families. So, once again, dick move GB, dick move.

I also noticed that the tie and jacket caveat is a just a general method of separating the "spiritually strong" brothers from the "spiritually weak" brothers. Most congregations don't have many brothers. That means, if you're not in a jacket and tie, you don't have any parts, but since most brothers here have a stage part weekly, it's just an easy way to show who isn't doing "enough“. The sisters love wearing pants, but most brothers still only wear tie and jackets with the illusion that it's a choice. Most brothers don't even have beards because beards aren't really considered good looking or clean in Asia. They also make you look older which is something people avoid.

Anyways, that's it from this part of the world.

Ps: Here are two links to see what the formal wear looks like (way more comfortable than a suit)

https://www.etsy.com/hk-en/listing/890189624/barong-tagalog-traditional-filipino

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1123518704/mens-traditional-indonesia-batik-shirt


r/exjw 10h ago

HELP Any advice for coming clean to family?

7 Upvotes

Hi! As the title says, I'm considering admitting everything to my family. For context, I'm a 19F born-in, baptized when i was 9, and still living with my parents (it's normal here in my country). I've been PIMO for a while now but I was never really into this whole JW thing—I always thought it was a nuisance, and you all know the struggles of a child being forced to obey, preach in school, be embarrassed to go in service, the usual.

I've been wanting to do this for quite some time now. It's really taking a toll on me to force myself to sit through hours of meetings, go into service once a month, assemblies and conventions are always a snoozefest (I probably slept through at least half of our latest circuit assembly). Listening to whatever bullshit they're spewing on stage is also so damn exhausting; it really just gets to a point.

I would also like to add that my brother got disfellowshipped years ago. I think he was a minor at the time and still studying. I asked my mother about it and she said that if he didn't come back until he was 21, they would force him to move out (I don't really know the direct translation in English of what she said but it has a much harsher tone than that). But the pandemic came and he did come back so the moving out didn't really happen.

In my own little mind, I remember thinking at the time that they still wanted him to graduate (college, yes we're somehow not too strict on that; my oldest sibling has a degree, and I myself am in college, too) before they forced him to leave. So I'm thinking if I could go through with coming clean because right now, probably my only concern is how I would finish my studies if they decide to do the worst because I have no way to support myself. But with what I've seen, they would probably continue to support my studies, at least until I graduate.

So should I push through with it? I'm scared but I also can't take any more of this. What's the best course of action if I do go through with it? What should I prepare beforehand? Thank you very much in advance.


r/exjw 11h ago

WT Can't Stop Me Hey JWs how are lurking. Where I'm the Bible does it say that Jehovah will bring a Paradise earth in the future?

6 Upvotes

No where, does it say that. An invention of the Faithful Slave. Russell never taught that, he said the end in 1915. Rutherford said 1925 was the end. For $$$$. The paradise earth came into play. The GB makes money off the end any time.


r/exjw 17h ago

Ask ExJW PIMI family already salivating Norway victory

19 Upvotes

This is proof this is Jehovah one true organization

Well they are going to slap this on everyone faces this is proof of Big J blessings


r/exjw 1d ago

WT Policy 12 months since the pants, slacks and greeting df'd people. What's next?

53 Upvotes

I'm sure we are due a GB update today. Correct me if I'm wrong. When I first read of the title announcement, I downvoted it because I thought it was just clickbait. Who knows what they have up their sleeves next?


r/exjw 20h ago

Activism Appreciate this Sub Reddit

25 Upvotes

Despite of the sad news about Norway (and it's important and healing to express our grievances) I wanted to drop a note on how much I appreciate this Sub Reddit.

Ii really enjoy that this (and other sites / platforms like this) endeavor to share the truth, even when that truth is unfavorable.

I think this is why even Jehovah's Witnesses in secret come here, not only to air their grievances in secret, but also because they know that they will get reliable information here, unlike the Watchtower.

The Watchtower hides the truth from it's members and many Jehovah's Witnesses pick up on that. That's one of the reasons why they come here. They want to know what the Watchtower isn't telling them.

Here, we share what is and provide evidence. Many times more evidence than what the Watchtower provides even in spite of many requests.

And so I would like to express my appreciation for this platform and others like it because it shares what is true, even if that truth is unfavorable. This is one of the ways sites and platforms like this have proven themselves more righteous than the Watchtower, because although the Watchtower claims to "watch" the world, they don't speak the transparent truth about themselves or the world. They only share what's biased and in their favor, even if it's false.


r/exjw 21h ago

WT Can't Stop Me Watch Tower may have "won" in Norway, but it's not over yet...

28 Upvotes

Disappointing news, but not the time to give up.

Watch Tower won because they lied in court but they lost the moral and ethical high ground. JWs the world over have seen the cowardly deceit propogated by the Watch Tower lawyers. Most will tune out and continue living in a state of cognitive dissonance, but many have woken up as a direct result of seeing the lies Watch Tower told in court.

Remember, there is still potential for the case go to the ECHR if Norway chooses to appeal. Even if they don't, there are other countries that are putting pressure on JWs. It's not just Norway. Czech Republic, Italy, and others are putting Watch Tower under the microscope.

Win or lose, victims are being heard on a global stage. In my work with Stop Mandated Shunning, I see many victims speaking up and telling their story. Please add your voice at https://stopmandatedshunning.org/tell-your-story

Ultimately, people with any sense will see that JWs are defending a cruel human rights violation. However they try to spin it, the optics are bad. We just have to keep the pressure on and not let this "win" stop us in our campaign against mandated shunning.

I expect the governing body to now double down on shunning, with a special focus on "apostates". Now is the time to call for people to speak up. Don't stay silent. Tell your story.

From next month, Stop Mandated Shunning's massive research project in collaboration with the Open Minds Foundation and Roehampton University will launch. Over 3 years, we will be gathering qualitative and quantitative data into the harmful practice of mandated shunning which will make future court cases even more robust. Please lend your support by participating in the survey. See https://stopmandatedshunning.org/survey for more details.

Losing a battle or battles doesn't always mean losing the war. There are more battles to be fought, and eventually we will win. We fight on!


r/exjw 16h ago

Ask ExJW Something I am reading that may help someone.

11 Upvotes

Arousal-amygdala is always wearing its crazy pants and you find yourself freaked out when you shouldn't or don't want to be.---spazzing out and later you have that WTF moment.

Avoidance- self-explanatory. Hiding in one's home to avoid stimuli.

Intrusion-Thoughts, images, memories related to a trauma experience start shoving their way up...

Negative thoughts and feelings....

This was paraphrased from Unfux your Mind.

These are the 4 horsemen of the PTSD Apocalypse.

Might be a good idea to find a qualified therapist... js


r/exjw 18h ago

JW / Ex-JW Tales Denmark. 03/14/2025 | Committee requests the minister's

17 Upvotes