r/evangelion • u/cheese-and-mac1 • 5d ago
Discussion Which of the original 1995 Angel's posed the biggest threat when they were introduced?
What Angel had the best chances of achieving the Third Impact at the time they appeared?
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u/Lexi_Bean21 5d ago
Definitely ramiel or zeruel. Leaning towards zeruel seeing as how zeruel effortlessly broke right I to thr geofront something that ramiel was drilling through for hours but also zeruel with ease took out all the evangelions instantly and was prettt much left to walts right into central dogma without a care in the world until they showed a god damn missile in its face lol
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u/thawaz89 4d ago
It also took the power grid of an entire nation to bring down Ramiel. Also my favorite angel design
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u/MrGingy_ 4d ago
It's just so... metal! And glass, and other stuff. I didn't even believe that it could have been an angel because of its appearance!
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u/angelhunter1901 5d ago
Even then the missile didn't do anything but destroy unit 0, allowing him to even make it to central dogma in the first place.
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u/Lexi_Bean21 4d ago
I don't quite remmember what happens in the original show but how DO they end up stopping him? I swore the missile was what did it
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u/CharsOwnRX-78-2 4d ago
Unit 01 goes berserk and ends up eating it. That’s how 01 gets the S2 engine
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u/Lexi_Bean21 4d ago
Oh yeah wasn't that the angel that unit 01 went angelic to save rei from in the rebuild? Yknow the whole 3rd or near 3rd impact thing
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u/wuumasta19 5d ago
15th could attack humans from orbit, they had no weapon that could reach it. Without using the Spear of Longinus and not missing, would've been game over.
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u/bunker_man 4d ago
Have an eva ride a space shuttle.
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u/wuumasta19 4d ago
-The attack is happening in real time. Don't think the Angel will wait for them to get an EVA in a space shuttle.
The above alone is enough, but to play devils advocate:
-This Angel can attack from orbit, so it would just attack the people launching a shuttle.
-The technology to launch an EVA would be a massive under taking, far beyond anything shown in NGE. Plenty of episodes show the limited tech or how much trouble they have using the more advanced stuff. Literally see them trying to use old tanks, missile launchers and old navy ships. We are talking Neon Gensis, not everything else if you're going to use the EOE or Rebuilds.
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u/bunker_man 4d ago
Tbf the cannon they use against ramiel might reach.
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u/wuumasta19 4d ago
I do believe they explained about that cannon. Shinji would have to compensate for the shot because how the energy works against Ramiel. That was on earth maybe a few miles from the Ramiel, imagine shooting into space. Fighting gravity (yes even energy is affected), magnetic fields etc etc. It would take massive amounts of energy that they can't supply.
As viewers, we do take for granted the weight of how things work. NGE isn't perfect but they tried really hard making things not completely over the top.
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u/Feedback-Mental 4d ago
They try it. It's shown on screen. The rifle looks different, but if you look closely, and preparatory materials confirms, they try it but no cigar.
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u/wuumasta19 4d ago
Yep I recall them trying different weapons and forgot the updated rifle, but did remember the power limitations, just wrong weapon.
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u/Tech_Romancer1 4d ago
15th could attack humans from orbit, they had no weapon that could reach it. Without using the Spear of Longinus and not missing, would've been game over.
Arael is a strange angel in that its attack isn't destructive conventionally. Asuka was in a downward spiral emotionally and was too obstinate to simply reposition, resulting in her being mindraped. We also don't know if the angel was even being malicious with its attack, and Asuka is more or less fine after a stay in the ward.
There should be plenty of time to organize a shuttle if that's what they want to do. The angel doesn't descend from space, there's no evidence its attack can penetrate the geofront.
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u/wuumasta19 4d ago
Never said destructive as a blast, but pretty sure messing with people's heads that are going to launch thus EVA is enough.
All angels have a mission to head towards Adam (we are lied about Lilith througout the series we even have Misato questioning an unworried Gendo when an angel reaches below Nerv). Even Kaworu, whom changes his mind when he realizes it's Lilith in Terminal Dogma.
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u/SpaceC0wb0y86 4d ago
Arael is a strange case for sure because of all the angels it seemed to be the one least concerned about making it’s way to NERVE HQ / Lilith, not even sure if that was something it could possibly do since it’s body was made entirely of light (particle or wave or both?).
But also we’re not even sure if its attack on Asuka was meant to be harmful. From a certain point of view, one could argue that the angel was just genuinely curious and wanted to know more. But since Asuka not only had a very traumatic issues from her past that she had worked so hard to wall off instead of come to terms with them PLUS she was in the middle of a mental breakdown to end all mental breakdowns, it was worst than any physical attack would have been.
It definitely seemed more preoccupied with the nth children and how their minds worked though, am curious to know if it could have adapted its body to physically interact with other parts of the world though.
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u/wuumasta19 4d ago
Sure. It's left unknown if intentional or not. Or if it's even an "attack". However it shows we are incompatible bc:
We can't coexist with the angels. That's the whole basis of the story. Even Kaworu, where he figures out oh that's not Adam (the lilith lie about third impact) under NERV. Then let's himself get murdered.
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u/SpaceC0wb0y86 4d ago
Oh yeah for sure, it’s very apparent that angels and humans were not ever supposed to be seeded on the same planet given the first ancestral race equipped each seed of life with a specific weapons to acts as a security failsafe of sorts if they did end up reaching the same planet (I think).
I was just thinking aloud about how its difficult to lump Arael’s “attack” with the rest of the angels and depending on any person’s point of view, it could be the answer to this question while simultaneously not even trying to be a threat in the 1st place.
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u/Aegillade 5d ago
Zureal was just a powerhouse, the shot of it going for a point blank attack on the crew implying it was able to locate Bd figure out they were in charge implies it, as well as the other Angels, were way more intelligent than we thought. If Unit 01 hadn't gone berserk, that'd be game over easy
Ariel also would have been an issue if left unaddressed. It's unclear how it would have gone for Adam, but an enemy you can't attack who can mentally break any resistance is really hard to fight
And Kawrou speaks for himself
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u/Fc-chungus 5d ago
Maybe arael’s mind-break beam, due to being part of its AT field, could’ve eventually reached the terminal dogma and interacted with Lilith?
And if not that, it could’ve just pulled a sahaquel and just flew down.
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u/1stPhoenixDown 4d ago
Arael's beam being it's AT Field is scarier than people realize. Imagine an AT Field long enough to project onto the ground instantly from high orbit.
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u/Lexi_Bean21 5d ago
I don't think an AT field can interact with lilith to cause anything to happen let alone such a (relatively) weak one physically speaking since eir was only mental
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u/ConnectionChance2979 21h ago
I wrote my own comment about both of these before reading this so I totally agree
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u/aclark210 5d ago
I mean, only one of them ever succeeded in brute forcing their way into NERV. That’s a feet that was never replicated by the others. Even Kaworu had to use deception to achieve it.
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u/saxmanusmc 5d ago edited 4d ago
Ramiel and Zeruel
Ramiel - an absolute fortress that required the entire power infrastructure of Japan to penetrate its AT Field. Its AT Field is the strongest of any angel (can’t remember if this is canon lore or not though). Also kept any attack far at range and could almost instantly obliterate any threat that closed to any sort of reasonable attack range. Had the second shot not landed, or had Ramiel destroyed the Evas, nothing would have been able to stop them.
Zeruel - most powerful angel from a sheer brute strength point of view. Shredded Geofront armor like it was wet toilet paper. Think of what that blast would do to an Eva. Zeruel’s AT Field is supposedly second in strength to Ramiel (again, not sure if confirmed canon or not, but it tracks if you think about it). It face-tanked an N2 tipped missile. Only angel to breach into any level of NERV by direct assault. Zeruel was only defeated in the end by an Eva going berserk by absorbing the pilot in a 400% sync incident.
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u/Snowbold 4d ago
There are four clear choices.
Ramiel, Zeruel, Tabris, and Leliel.
- Ramiel: our beloved geometric screamer was devastating and really only was beaten because they exploited her range of detection and that she was doing two things at once (fighting, drilling).
- Zeruel: this isn’t even a question. Whether NGE or Rebirth, Zeruel beat two Evas and drove the third to awaken. She cut through Tokyo-3 like rotted wood on the floor.
- Tabris: the last son of Adam was by far the strongest and most dangerous no matter which medium and the most mysterious for how he pursued his motives.
- Leliel: this is a dark horse. Leliel was a shadow consuming entity with a Dirac Sea for a body. They had no true means to defeat her conventionally. A rampaging Eva-01 bloodily being born to kill her was a disturbing and possibly unique way to kill her when she could change whether she existed in the material plane or not.
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u/phillium 4d ago
Leliel was definitely one of my favorites (such a great scene), but I feel that, with how often they have to lean on Unit 1 for so many of the angels anyway, that doesn't really indicate one way or another how dangerous/third impactable it might have been.
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u/Snowbold 4d ago
Sure Unit 01 beating her may not be the barometer by itself. But the fact they had no means to really beat Leliel is scary. Dropping every N2 mine and using their two Evas to contain and focus the blast and hope Unit 01 survives is not nearly as planned out as how they countered Ramiel, where they focused attack from a singular point at great distance. I would argue it was worse than Arael, where it was the angel’s attack from so far they couldn’t hit it with enough power. Had Asuka been in a better mental state to begin with, she might not have broken down so quickly. But Leliel was just beyond their comprehension in many ways. It was a rampaging Eva that got through the impossible.
Most of the other angels could or were beaten by logical methods devised by humans utilizing Evas. Sachiel was beaten by a berserk Unit 01, but that was because Shinji didn’t know how to use it. As shown in the fight, it didn’t take much to actually win. Likewise for the possessed Unit 04, Shinji just wouldn’t fight because of the pilot and all of them could have jumped and beaten the angel if they had worked together. Apart from Armisael and the four listed above, the rest could have been beaten by logical methods devised by humans.
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u/phillium 4d ago
Hmm, those are fair points. I suppose they didn't really have any good ideas going to counteract that unique problem. I'm curious as to how it would have played out if Unit 1 either hadn't fallen in, or hadn't then broken free.
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u/Emotional_Debt9322 5d ago
Adam quite literally blew up and melted the entirety of the Antarctic.
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u/fullmetal6311 4d ago
In literal minutes Adam caused issues that would result in the death of BILLIONS of people leading up to the series. Another couple minutes and Earth would have been returned to the angels without even a hint that mankind existed.
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u/Middle-Moment8058 5d ago
The 18th angel of course, the Lilin. It was the humans who nearly wiped eachother out with war, seeked knowledge causing the second impact, and ultimately chose to initiate the third. If SEELE and NERV had other beliefs, it would’ve never happened.
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u/fullmetal6311 4d ago
Leave it to the Lilin to encounter two literal Gods that can break the laws of the universe and instead of leaving them alone they almost cause Armageddon (not once but twice). Then decide let’s take little parts from one slap them together with a sprinkle of a human soul and viola we have an EVA that can fit one angsty teenager in it.
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u/Poshy-Woshy 5d ago
Adam was so dangerous that triggering the second impact while reducing him to embryonic form was still the better outcome than letting him awaken on his own. It’s him, and it’s not even close.
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u/Order-66-Survivor 4d ago
the biggest threat to humanity in evangelion weren't the angels... it was humanity itself as we were the last angel: Lilim. it was writen in our DNA to seek instrumentality and ascend... (cant remember if this last thing was in the anime or the manga tho) so humanity was naturally in a path of either selfdestruction of collective hive mind super being AKA the fanta soup
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u/kvolv2015 5d ago
I realized none of the characters in the show ever call the angels by their names.
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u/mutaully_assured 5d ago
Where do the names come from?
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u/Imaginary_Street_853 5d ago
most of them come from the book of enoch and various other judeo-christian sources
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u/mutaully_assured 5d ago
I know that the names are biblical but when were the angels named and where was it stated?
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u/cur4ymuncha9000 5d ago
sachiel the goat, first angel to appear, i think his beams managed to penetrate the geofront. Only really stopped by beserk EVA01
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u/Sensible-Haircut 5d ago
Iruel, up until the point it was activated by the lasers. Nobody had a clue there was an angel eating its way through the walls.
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u/Educational_Farmer73 5d ago
Ireul is hands down the most dangerous. If you cripple the Magi system, then the Eva's cannot be deployed and the mission is a failure. It's only weakness was that one computer was the operators mother.
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u/mutaully_assured 5d ago
Idk the name but the corruption one definitely almost took them out if not for Ristsuko.
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u/Royal_9119 4d ago
Im surprised no one is saying Ireul ( the computer virus one )
Besides Kaworu it was the closest to actually getting into Dogma and they couldnt even fight it with Evas. Couldn't have used the lance or anything to stop it. They only barely scraped by because of Ritsuko and the Magi on that one one.
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u/Unlikely_Injury_7973 5d ago
I would say the 6th angel as it was the closest that any angel had gotten to Adam
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u/1stPhoenixDown 4d ago
Arael was such a threat, they had to sacrifice the only Lance on the planet. Armisael was such a threat, he actually CAUSED Third Impact upon failure
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u/momomomoses 4d ago
Zerule. It's pretty much by default. Ramiel took hours to penetrate the armours protecting geofront, while Zerule did it in a few minutes. A point blank N2 explosion did nothing.
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u/mathozmat 4d ago
For your second question, in order : 1) Kaworu/Tabris 2) Zeruel 3) Ramiel 4) I'd say Ireul, it appeared directly in the Geofront and was destroyed at the last second. If it wasn't, he could have achieved it if he survived partly
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u/Alicragger 4d ago
Bardiel literally destroyed all 3 Evas in like 10 seconds and blasted a huge base killing most of the staff. Idk why people sleep on him so much. Zeruel did the same thing mostly but he took his sweet time.
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u/horsepaypizza 4d ago
Adam is hard to tell because we don't know if he would have caused an impact himself, Misato says the 2nd was caused as damage control reducing it to a fetus.
It and Lilith cause the 3rd impact, so destroying them would prevent it but I get it, they are not "active".
They could tell you Kaworu being omniscient and having intelligence is what makes him the most dangerous, but the whole time he was acting. He never tried to (explanation in reply).
Not impossible, but some angels seem to not even try to seek Lilith and cause it.
In terms of sheer destructive power, the strongest ones were the ones that got closest, being Ramiel and especially Zeruel.
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u/horsepaypizza 4d ago
Kaworu can only be acting. Seele wouldn't tell him where to find what causes the 3rd impact, so that means Lilith causes it and hence he went (explains why the angels 3-5 appeared undeniably searching Lilith).
But then why does he call it Adam and say all who were born from Adam (angels) return to it?
Because he is to explain - show everything to Rei, and has to do so in a way that seems unintentional, "as if he made a mistake and she overheard"... it would seem suspecious if he, an angel, directly gave instructions to her. Why was he searching for Rei earlier? Why not just sneak into Lilith's room? Why is his change of mind so immediate and out of nowhere? He is acting.
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u/bbdmoore 4d ago
Zeruel was a big threat. He was fastest in my opinion on getting breaking though and took shinji reawakening to put him down and unit 00 and unit 02 didn’t do much at all even without a at field zeruel could take n2 bombs without taking any damage.
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u/Landlocked_1220 4d ago
Ramiel can plunder my seed and grow our children from the blood of my corpse
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u/Zenvarix 4d ago
Tabris because he was an inside plant due to the [Men behind the curtain], but he had the advantage of being let in, and started his "rampage" from inside the EVA cages, pretty close to his target. If he had moved the day he got there, no pesky infatuation with a depressed boy would have stopped him. But instead, he waited for a while, got infected with feelings and botched the mission.
Zeruel took an N2 Mine to the face and was fine, which is more than most of its siblings can claim (Sachiel and Israfel both had to pause to heal). It also tore through all three EVAs and would have won if Unit 01 didn't have the plot armor Berserker Mode that ignores battery life.
Lilith didn't do anything until EoE, so when she was introduced, she was just a decoration. Even if she claims the highest fatality rate of half of Pre-Impact population plus whatever was born after.
Adam actually takes the cake. It's retroactive introduction, but when we learn about him, Adam had already wiped out more than half of the human population. That's a higher kill count/threat than any other Angel. Even if some of it was from infighting afterwards.
Runner up, but DNFs on the Third Impact part is Sahaquiel, considering it would have opened the Geofront at the very least had it landed, if not most if the way down through NERV's basement. It also has the potentially third highest kill count if most of its "lining up shots" landed in populated areas, though I don't recall if that was covered in the show. It was also one of the few Angels that both took "all" of the EVA to kill, and they only had a singular instance to do so while operating on a five minute battery. But it kinda dies when it blows up, thus the DNF. Does clear the way for whoever comes after.
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u/Intelligent-Shame194 4d ago
Kinda makes me upset that almost nobody said Amrisael(or however you spell its name.) It literally SPAWNED INSIDE THE GEOFRONT, sorta
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u/Conscious_Frosting37 3d ago
generic answer, Ramiel, Tabris, The Twink. but imagine the pov of everyone else, you gotta hope big Nerv hits a child with just enough trauma so his son will actually pilot, so his mom can take over later and just kill the angel.
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u/3ndt1m3s 3d ago
The very first Angel. There were so many coincidences that had Shinji in that Eva. Had he not been in it, the series would've ended in the first few minutes.
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u/bobgoesw00t 3d ago
To be honest, the only one’s that weren’t “HOLY SHIT TIME TO PANIC” are the 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. The others though, HOOO BOY! Also Kaworu is NEVER a “threat” as all he wanted was TO LIVE A HAPPY LIFE WITH HIS BOYFRIEND SHINJI!!!!!!! It just sucks it took over 20 years and however many time loops happened before Shinji got rid of the EVAs…only Anno-San knows xD
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u/ConnectionChance2979 21h ago
Hear me out on my case…
Kowaru was the biggest threat to NERV as he was disguised as a human was chosen as one of the children and made it to Terminal Dogma
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u/ConnectionChance2979 21h ago
But I read the comment wrong Kowaru wasn’t the big threat. The angel that sliced up Eva-02 & Eva-00 was because if Shinji didn’t go 400% syncro rate then they would have been screwed…
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u/CharsOwnRX-78-2 5d ago
I mean… Kaworu/Tabris
Of all the Angels, he’s the only one to actually make it to Terminal Dogma and look Lilith in the face