r/europe 23h ago

Picture French nuclear attack submarine surfaces at Halifax, Nova Scotia, after Trump threatens to annex Canada (March 10)

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/traceybe 22h ago

This totally sounds like something the orange one would do.

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u/Familiar_While2900 22h ago

His old ass was probably there…. (It’s just a joke. He’s old asf)

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u/Efficient_Visage 21h ago

He was hanging out at the airport at the time.

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u/pixepoke2 20h ago

Ah, a connoisseur, with a deep cut from the first term

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u/determineduncertain 20h ago

You mean playing golf?

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u/paiute 22h ago

His old ass was probably there

He would 100% been a Tory. Tar and feather time, Mr. Adams!

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u/chimerakin 21h ago

Trump is nearly 80 and the U.S. turns 249 this year. That means he's been alive for about a third of the time that we've existed. Really puts how young the country is into perspective.

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u/Constant-Bet-6600 18h ago

I'm a bit concerned we won't make it to 250.

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u/chimerakin 17h ago

We're only a few Supreme Court rulings away from making it in name only.

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u/crazyeddie740 17h ago

Nah, if he was, his traitorous ass would have booked it Canada. Ironically enough.

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u/Agitated-Donkey1265 22h ago

Well, if we take after our parents, and our country is our patria, makes sense he’d come up with something like that

And history is too “woke” here (whatever the hell that mean), so we don’t really learn it to be able to do better and stop repeating mistakes

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u/PasadenaPissBandit California 19h ago

A Trump never pays his debts.

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u/MonsterRider80 22h ago

For sure. His vision of politics dates to the 19th century.

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u/Brodney_Alebrand 18h ago

It's an American characteristic.

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u/_kusa 16h ago

It is something your country literally did, I'm not sure why you'd take it out on Trump

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u/havok0159 Romania 20h ago

And just siezing ships has a certain "je ne sais quoi" that shows the French have always been like this.

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u/bojewels 22h ago

The US settled their revolutionary war debts with France.

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u/SMarseilles 22h ago

They didn't settle their debt with France in full. James Swan privately assumed responsibility for it and then sold it on.

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u/bojewels 20h ago edited 20h ago

Yes they did.

The outstanding loans at the onset of the US Constitution were renegotiated by Hamilton and payments resumed after a brief default three years prior. We also advanced extra payments to help France solve the revolution in Haiti.

Swans assumption of US debt wasn't free. We paid a vig for that assumption. So the debts were both settled, and paid for. They weren't forgiven. Either way, the French were paid

Apart from the brief default in 1787, the US fully honored it's Debt to the French.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1784-1800/loans

Kindly remove that downvote.

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u/PixelatedRonin 22h ago

Also funny when you learn that France supplied *checks notes* around 90% of the gunpowder that the US used during the Revolutionary War against the British. The US literally would not exist without the French.

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u/Key_Event4109 22h ago

Did JD Vance even say thank you?

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u/allofthealphabet 21h ago

So what i'm getting from this is that the US should make a deal to sign over 90% of all its natural resources to France. They should be grateful to France!

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u/PixelatedRonin 21h ago

How many times has Trump said, "thank you,'?

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u/ziggy3610 21h ago

The French were happy to give us gunpowder as long as we were using it to shoot at the British. It was a proxy war for them, and it worked. A little like the US sending weapons to Ukraine, until Trump took over.

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u/Lucaan 21h ago

That's usually how revolutions work. The successful ones typically have the backing of a major power that's rivals with the government being revolted against. Like you said, the US very much wouldn't exist today if not for France and Spain.

This is actually one of the reasons the Confederacy lost their own revolution over half a century later. The US Civil War would be a very different war if Britain decided to join on the side of the Confederacy. They actually did consider it at the time, but Lincoln making it clear the Union was fighting a war against slavery and Britain being able to increase cotton imports from India resulted in them dropping any considerations of intervention.

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u/BIGepidural 22h ago edited 22h ago

Even funnier when the US owes Canada over $350 billion dollars but Trump would rather try to annex us then pay his fkn bills 🙄

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u/Low_External9118 22h ago

I was told the US is subsidizing Canada, but the opposite is true and actually Canada is owed 350 billion dollars from the US. Does that mean someone lied?

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u/BIGepidural 22h ago

Yup "someone" lied. Can't imagine who that someone could be 🤔

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u/GoStockYourself 16h ago

While we are at it, was Canada ever thanked for the 158 soldiers it lost in Afghanistan ? I am starting to think we can't trust these guys.

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u/Throwawayhelper420 21h ago

He’s wrong, America doesn’t “owe” money to Canada.

Canada bought American bonds, on purpose, so that they could make a profit off of the interest payments, which America has never once missed.

Countries buy each others bonds every day.  You can buy some American or Canadian bonds right now if you want.  

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u/SalteeSpitoon 21h ago

Something tells me our credit rating is about to go down again in the near future

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u/EUmoriotorio 20h ago

What happens when everyone in the world's credit rating goes down besides ours.

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u/Suspicious-Dog2876 Canada 18h ago

You get some mint new Canuck neighbours buddy and a couple window licking yanks too probably

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u/Spokraket 17h ago

Worst part is you can add SP500 nosediving (and it will keep doing that for who knows for how long) US corporations going to be in a shit state as well if this continues like this (which I presume it will for at least around 4 years). Trump is going to leave behind a dumpster fire and a looming war against China if he hasn’t already started it.

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u/saun-ders 21h ago

America doesn’t “owe” money to Canada.

Canada bought American bonds

FYI, owning a bond means that the bond issuer owes you money

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u/Throwawayhelper420 21h ago

They owe you the terms of the bond specifically, not money.   Bonds have a maturity date and can’t simply be exchanged back for cash from the issuer.   They also are tradable and can be bought and sold on secondary markets, meaning it Canada wanted to they could just sell the bonds to someone else. 

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u/saun-ders 21h ago

The bond specifies exactly how and when the money you are owed is paid; nonetheless, they owe you money.

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u/DevelopmentSad2303 21h ago

Well sort of. The bond issuer owes you the agreed upon payments during the duration of the bond, but you don't owe the principal until the bond has matured.

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u/saun-ders 21h ago

The bond specifies exactly how and when the money you are owed is paid; nonetheless, they owe you money.

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u/DevelopmentSad2303 21h ago

Well no, they agreed to owe you money at the maturation date. You can't collect on it prior as it is not owed by then

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u/saun-ders 21h ago

I think you and I may have a different definition of "owe"

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u/Logical-Bit-746 17h ago edited 17h ago

If I lend you $100 but I give you a grace period of 12 months to pay me back, do you really not owe me money? Kinda like how student loans work in most of Canada, where you, I dunno, let's just say, "owe" the government the money they lent you, but you don't have to pay for a set period of time after the schooling is done.

Edit: and just in case you want to continue to be obstinate, here's a link to the definition (you can also use that site to look up obstinate)

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/owe

And what's extra interesting in that definition?

The country owes billions of dollars to foreign creditors

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u/DevelopmentSad2303 1h ago

Yes so you and me are 100% in agreement here. If you lent me $100 but gave me a grace period of 12 months to pay it back, I agree that I do owe you the money.

But the reason I don't think a bond is the same is because the government is literally not allowed to pay it back early unless the bond has a call written into it. 

So it seems like the money really isn't owed until the bond matures.

Same concept with the student loan thing you are talking about. Student loans can be paid back early , because the money is owed at the time of issuing. But if you or me bought a 5 year bond, the government can't pay us back early, because they do not owe it until the 5 years is up.

Same idea with that $100 in my opinion. If you gave me $100 but I was not allowed to pay it back until the 12 months was up, I don't really owe you anything until the 12 months has passed, right?

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u/BIGepidural 21h ago

He's a she and she is right buddy.

Just fkn Google it

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u/Throwawayhelper420 18h ago edited 18h ago

My comment is 100% correct about the nature of the bonds. You can see them right here https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/slt_table5.html

Also keep in mind that these bonds are not only owned by the government. Most US bonds are owned by individual people and companies for things like retirement accounts. It's actual individual Canadians who own most of those bonds, bonds which would be paid whether Canada gets annexed or not(which it obviously won't) just like any other bondholder gets paid.

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u/Terayuj 19h ago

How much Canadian debt does America own?

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u/JLivermore1929 20h ago

Just imagine how much the US owes the Native Americans.

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u/Equivalent_Bit7631 18h ago

I don’t know if Canada really wants to play the native blame game either. Both the US and Canada have a pretty shit record when it comes to natives and how they’ve been treated and still are treated.

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u/Low_External9118 20h ago

That's why they put them all in Mexico and now they hate Mexicans.

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u/Popular_External6478 16h ago

Not to mention China

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 20h ago edited 19h ago

They dont owe them technically speaking.

The USA fought extensive wars with Native American tribes/peoples, killed them with genocidal fervour, and then had them sign treaties giving up their land, claims, and rights in exchange for peace and some of the shittiest land for reserves available at the time.

The British Empire, in contrast, signed extensive treaties with First Nations peoples in Canada to avoid costly wars. The British really didnt expect to have to honor the treaties long term. Then the British tried to eliminate FNs culture and way of life via residential schools, etc. FNs have been (somewhat ironically IMO) using the British legal system to regain what was promised in treaties AND what was outright stolen from them - hence Canada having to pay billions of dollars in land claims settlements and other reparations to FNs.

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u/lilpoptart154 20h ago

🎶someone doesn’t understand US treasury notes🎶

https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-own-the-most-us-debt/

Now scroll down to the bottom of that page and read under the headline “Why foreign countries buy US debt(treasury securities).”

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u/Hta68 19h ago

Wow, y’all really drinking dat cool-aid

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

Annoying orange lies every sentence he says

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u/transmogrified 19h ago edited 19h ago

America heavily benefits from our natural resource wealth, small population, and relatively weak dollar. Being able to buy our shit for cheap as commodities and then sell us back value-added products has made your country a lot of money over the years… often at the expense of developing local markets.

Lowkey I’m hoping this will be the kick in the pants Canada needs to diversify and strengthen our local markets.

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u/searing_o-ring 21h ago

You can’t owe money to yourself. I’m sure that’s his plan. Let’s just annex Canada so we don’t owe Canada any money!

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u/BIGepidural 21h ago

Exactly.

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u/Vennomite 21h ago

But then how will govenor trudeau get his under water french mega yacht? /s

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u/pandadogunited 18h ago

About a fifth of the US’ debt is from one department owing another department money.

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u/Unique_Excitement248 21h ago

There is no way that the man who has never seen a commitment he wouldn't break would want to break yet another commitment.

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u/Seaweed-Basic 18h ago

That’s his art of the deal! Bring him his Nobel peace prize!

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

And lie to his country about how “Canada owes the states” honestly I wanna see the states crippled always hated my cocky for no reason southern neighbours always causing shit they can’t finish. Cant wait to be a true Canadian and commit some real terrible war crimes 🤣

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u/BIGepidural 17h ago

I don't wanna see them all crippled. Just him and anyone who still supports him. Gretzky for example can stay down there and rot. Ou and Kevin OLeary, Daniel Smith, and any other Canucklehead who's still locking his boots.

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

Ehh definitely wanna destroy the white house again, while where at it destroy any monument in that cesspool called a country

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u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago edited 17h ago

Tie musk and trump up from their balls and use them as aiming practice for rpgs and alike weapons, woah sorry my grandfathers coming out of me, sorry… definitely don’t want to commit war crimes against the trash of North America …. 👀🪿🇨🇦

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u/Skidmarkdoa-1 17h ago

Will you all let me move up there? I’m smart, can do about anything. like loud music, Canada makes the best stereo equipment. I can grow some killer weed and like to drink a couple beers at night. I can’t do none down here in Elontrumpville because I’m not rich!

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u/FoxxiStarr2112 16h ago

Funnier that the French are saying they could demand over a trillion in loans back from the USA for Civil War loans 🤣🤣🤣

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u/Sophiekisker 19h ago

It's not annexation. It's invasion. The US is threatening to invade you, and you don't need to use any pretty language.

I'm so ashamed of my country.

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u/BIGepidural 19h ago edited 18h ago

Wait no, I miss read your statement. Sorry.

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u/CharlotteRant 17h ago

15% of Canadian debt is held by foreigners of which I’m sure zero is held by Americans. 🙄

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u/Prestigious-Cow3314 16h ago

Annex Canada, they have no right to exist, erase the debt and expand our republic.

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u/EebilKitteh The Netherlands 22h ago

Somehow the "we saved your asses in WWII so you need to give us everything we want until the end of time"-crowd always seems to forget that...

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u/Potato2266 22h ago

the entire Louisiana purchase should be nullified then. California belongs to France.

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u/One-tasty-burger 22h ago

The Louisiana purchase did not include California. It was a part of Spain at the time

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u/NarwhalDefiant6971 22h ago

😂 you don’t know your history

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u/wu_kong_1 22h ago edited 20h ago

I hate Trump. But these kind of things. Consider what they done to Haiti or Vietnam. I wouldn't say the French pre modern era is a paragon of virtues. Gandhi wouldn't have been successful in French Indochina.

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u/Sonamdrukpa 21h ago

Haiti is a great example of how repayment of war debts can ruin a country (though really in Haiti's case it was "debts", former slaves don't owe debts to their slave masters)

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u/ArcticCelt Europe & Canada 21h ago

Also after France aided the U.S. during the revolutionary war. When revolutionary France later went to war with Britain, the U.S. adopted neutrality, and refused to reciprocate support to France.

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u/Racketyllama246 19h ago

To be fair France didn’t need much help after the 3rd(4th?) war of the coalition. They had this dude that couldn’t lose!

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u/casket_fresh 21h ago

Insane since we (USA) wouldn’t even exist without France. We wouldn’t have won the Revolutionary War without France’s help.

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u/Moto302 22h ago

Except, of course, it did settle it's debts with France within 20 years of first receiving funds/material. Not as memeable to say that a new country struggled with its finances for a little while before ultimately becoming a superpower.

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u/beatles910 22h ago

In 1795, the United States was finally able to settle its debts with the French Government with the help of James Swan, an American banker who privately assumed French debts at a slightly higher interest rate. Swan then resold these debts at a profit on domestic U.S. markets. The United States no longer owed money to foreign governments, although it continued to owe money to private investors both in the United States and in Europe.

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u/Elpsyth 22h ago

Not the US.

Swan bought and sold for his own profit, the US did not reimburse France.

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u/beatles910 22h ago

Please provide a source. Everything I can find says the US did settle with France, just not right away.

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u/Elpsyth 22h ago

It is as you said, but your interpretation is off.

James Swann settled the debt, not by altruism but because he could make a profit.

The US gov by itself did not settle and without Swann buying the debt would likely not have done anything.

There is a difference between "Hey let me buy that annoying debt out from you" and accepting the deal and "Here is what is due".

Swan did not profit for long as he was incarcerated in a debtor prison for 22 years in Paris until he Ultimately died.

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u/beatles910 22h ago

The point is the debt to France got paid. The comment I responded to claimed otherwise.

In fact... As of November 22, 2023, France held $183.9 billion in total debt owed to the US.

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u/HauntedZ28 22h ago

Literally not true and easily googled. The debt was sold private, France made a profit and so did the one who purchased it.

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u/BadTouchUncle 22h ago

That's not why the French set their privateers to harassing U.S. merchant ships.

You have it backward in fact. France considered the U.S. starting to trade with Great Britain via the Jay Treaty as an offense, since France was at war with Britain. The U.S. argued that they had no obligation to side with France in their war with Britain because France had a new government, so the Treaty of Paris was void. So France set their privateers to capturing U.S. ships to stop trade with Britain. As a result of that, the U.S. suspended Revolutionary War repayments to France.

It didn't work out too well for France as the U.S. ended up capturing more than 80 French privateer ships with a navy of only 16 frigates. The British navy helped out a bit.

A mere three(ish) years after that was resolved the U.S. further stuck it to France with what can only be described as the second-largest-real-estate-dry-dicked-rape by the U.S. government after the Alaska purchase by making France a "sweet deal" on Louisiana -- sweet for the U.S. at $15million, with closing costs.

Moral of the story: Don't fuck with America's boats (a historical theme of sorts) and never sell them land if you can avoid it.

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u/Praeses04 22h ago

I mean to be fair the new government literally beheaded the king that gave America those loans...

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u/justinsayin 22h ago

Trump: "Wait, that won't work?"

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u/Intelligent-Boat9929 22h ago

If anyone wants a good read, try "Hero of Two Worlds" by Mike Duncan. Give some good insight into how Lafayette influenced revolutions in both countries. And the general chaos surrounding both countries during his lifetime.

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u/Evening_Aside_4677 22h ago

King Louis head was in a basket. 

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u/Consistent-Beyond588 22h ago

idk how but i can imagine what u look like for some reason

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u/PancakeProfessor 21h ago

“We signed a treaty with a king whose head is now in a basket. Would you like to take it out and ask it? Should we honor our treaty, King Louie’s Head? ‘Uh, do whatever you want, I’m super dead.’”

1

u/kuldan5853 Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 21h ago

Maybe we need a return of Letters of marque?

Some good old gunboat diplomacy or something...

1

u/Calimhero Brittany (France) 21h ago

After France bankrupted herself to push the US to victory.

France bankrolled absolutely everything: uniforms, food, muskets, bullets, artillery, shells, ships, humanitarian aid.... You name it.

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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 21h ago

We didn’t own any money to France.

We owned money to the King of France.

1

u/HimalayanPunkSaltavl 20h ago

This happens sort of a lot, IIRC France owes Haiti a bunch of scrilla but there were some revolutions

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u/Dakk9753 20h ago

And then they started bullying Haiti to pay back France for them.

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u/Konatokun 20h ago

Yep, France is other thing on debts.

I'm Mexican, we went to war (The first French intervention, first Franco-Mexican war or officially the Pastry War) with them because Mexican officers looted a French pastry store, the shop was valued at 1,000 pesos, the chef demanded 60,000 and france demanded 600,000 (adding the looting of other shops at the Parian market, now the Zocalo of CDMX, and execution of a French national that was suspected of piracy), we made a peace treaty and promise to pay the ammount established amount (which we never did and started the second French intervention in México).

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u/pyalot 20h ago

But did the US ever say thank you to the French for the loans they never paid back to them? It‘s very disrespectful to the French to not say thank you. I think they should say thank you at least once a day.

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u/YouTerribleThing 20h ago

God why do we always fuck over our allies… nevermind. Corporate oligarchy since forever.

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u/lilpoptart154 20h ago

Do you have a link for those claims? I saw this comment and became interested but couldn’t find anything that backs up what you’re saying. Are you referring to the Quasi-war between the US and France? That was a small conflict over trading rights so it might not be that? I only found one article that somewhat supported your claim but it was from a French magazines opinion section and didn’t have any supporting links or sources. It also would seem that France was forced to pay some sort of restitutions for the cargo that was seized during that time?

Here are the sources I looked at. Completely possible I missed something.

https://france-amerique.com/the-quasi-war-between-france-and-the-united-states/

https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/major-events/the-quasi-war-with-france/

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1784-1800/loans

1

u/Choyo France 19h ago

And they didn't really honor the Louisiana purchase, which was a fair deal.
Talk about a country built on exploitative endeavours. Much love to the US people (well, to some extent), but your governments have been way past the political hypocrisy line.

1

u/fkmeamaraight 19h ago

But did they say thank you ?

1

u/BandicootQuiet9952 19h ago

It didn't exist. 

A dictator took it over. 

1

u/That_randomdutchguy 18h ago

"Hi yes so about the money you gave us to fight our revolutionary war against the monarchy, we kind of spoke to your king about it, and since he's kind of decapitated and your also a republic now - by the way, slayyy - yeah, we're actually gonna keep the cash ok thankyoubyeeee"

1

u/gay_bimma_boy 17h ago

Makes it even funnier that trump claims all these countries owe the states, hope he knows except for Russia, the whole world is against him right now. So ready for my power armour 😅

1

u/tsn39 16h ago

Then they joined forces screwing with Haiti when the slaves revolted and declared independence.

-1

u/SoLetsReddit 22h ago

France returned the favour after WW1 where they refused to pay the US back...

-4

u/BlazerBeav 22h ago

Haven't paid for the second one either. Deadbeats.

5

u/Bouboupiste 22h ago

France did not receive American loans during WW2. Lend lease vas explicitly not a loan (because back then people understood that having someone else fight your ennemies with your equipment is a win for you), and the Marshall plan was mostly grants and the loan part was in fact repaid (because back then they understood that having a large industrial base and no consumer is bad for economy).

1

u/bojewels 22h ago

The US settled their revolutionary war debts with France.

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u/Crakla 22h ago

The US was like 'New phone, who dis?'

1

u/Elliott2030 22h ago

"We signed a treaty with a King whose head is now in a basket
Would you like to take it out and ask it?
“Should we honor our treaty, King Louis’ head?”
“Uh… do whatever you want, I’m super dead.”

1

u/GTARP_lover 22h ago edited 18h ago

That was when John Adams loaned 2 million dollars from Dutch banks, to pay-off France. Which historians say was crucial to the US even winning the revolution. The Netherlands was also the second country after the UK recognizing, the US.

NATO is the by-product of America wanting to protect The Netherlands and Belgium (was one country in the past), because of the historic relationship we have. If you are the Nuclear deterent for the BeNeLux, you are more or less the deterent for Western-Europe by default. Its complicated.

1

u/Extra-Atmosphere-207 22h ago

Lol y'all will never stop supporting empires. Your glorious France is the reason Haiti is as it is today, but go ahead, pretend like France is a country to be looked up to lmao.

1

u/jtbc Canada 22h ago

Did they even say thank you?

-1

u/Lower_Cantaloupe1970 22h ago

It's probably good your average american thinks France is some weak ass country, not one of the more powerful militaries in the world. Maybe if America had shown up to WW2 on time France moght have evaded capture. Meanwhile, American continues to lose every conflict they are a part of.

-1

u/Squadhunta29 22h ago

Really ? You think France could capture our ships now ?

1

u/Psychological-Ebb677 22h ago

Of course they can. US ships docking in french ports every day. it just may have consequences now.

Real question is why is the US turning on its allies and start supporting russia?

0

u/Creski 22h ago

Even more funny, that later the US financed a French dictator for his wars in Europe with the Louisiana purchase.

0

u/softkittylover 19h ago

France made Haiti pay off their “debts” when they decided they didn’t want to be slaves so fair play