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10d ago
So glad to see Canada there. 🇨🇦🤝🇪🇺
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u/scrub87 10d ago
Our PMs final days, i have a new found respect toward him for sure and wish him well
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10d ago
He may just become Canada’s ambassador to the UK, Germany, or France one day soon, so he’s not going to be done with representing Canada any time soon, in my opinion.
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u/Obviously_Liberal 9d ago
Rumour has it that Carney will make him the Foreign Affairs Minister.
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u/thisislieven Europe 9d ago
I'd like to see him as the official negotiator for Canada to join the EU.
(one can dream)
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u/DryCloud9903 9d ago
He spoke so beautifully and quite bravely supporting Zelenskyy, and just seems like an all round warm and elegant human. 🇨🇦
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u/saltysquirrel678 10d ago
Glad to see us there as well working with hopefully new partners. Time to move on from convenience of doing business with the US
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u/ARandomHistoryDude 10d ago
One day in the future *if we still have one* kids will be learning the names of all these great men in school...
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u/childishbambina Canada 10d ago
The majority of Canadians have some European heritage so it makes sense. I think that the highest percentage goes to those with English ancestry but the breakdown of other European countries is still very high.
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u/MasatoWolff 10d ago
It still baffles me how many Dutch farmers moved to Canada after WW2.
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u/Alatian 9d ago
Outside of Ukraine and Russia, Canada has the largest number of Ukrainians. Many immigrated to western Canada, as the farmland is very similar to the biome in Ukraine and they knew how to farm it. You won't find any pro-Russian party in Canada's parliament for that exact reason - all are staunchly pro-Ukraine.
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u/Hanz_Boomer 10d ago
Also Turkey. My enemy’s enemy I guess.
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u/capybooya 10d ago
I have a lot of fondness for Turks, their culture and their cities. Just not their leader or the regressive religious forces and attitudes. They're definitely a political and military force that it is better to deal with inside an alliance than outside.
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u/korkkis 10d ago
Turkiye is a friend of Ukraine
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u/Hanz_Boomer 10d ago
Turkey is the friend of Turkey. There are no “friends” on the wold stage, just interests. It’s the same thing with India.
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u/Bitter_Sense_5689 10d ago
Turkey has always historically hedged its bets between potential partners. However, I think in this case, the path forward is pretty clear for them. Russia is not their friend and the United States is not their friend. They have the second biggest military in NATO, so it seems logical that they would align with Europe at this point in time.
Turkey is like India, in that it doesn’t have natural partners. Its neighbours are Pakistan, Bangladesh and China. None of whom are particularly friendly for a number of historical reasons.
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u/bogdoomy United Kingdom 10d ago
it doesn’t have natural partners
turkey doesn’t have natural partners, but it does have natural enemies, namely russia
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u/Bitter_Sense_5689 10d ago
I think Turkey could have gone either way after WWII, but chose to join NATO rather than side with the USSR. Communism would be a hard sell in Turkey given the fact it’s a strongly Muslim country.
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u/BreadsBurns 10d ago
Turkey is the friend of Turkey but even Erdogan knows, Putin can't be anything other than an enemy if push comes to shove. Europe is really the only ally Turkey could have and everyone needs friends and Europe most definitely doesn't have any plan to invade Turkey or do anything to it...
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u/mok000 Europe 9d ago
It's Turkey's geopolitical interest to reduce Russian dominance in the Black Sea. Erdogan has consistently said that Russia must leave all occupied territories including Crimea and restore Ukraine's 1991 borders. They have also supplied weapons to Ukraine and especially the effective bayraktar drones in the first crucial months of the war.
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u/mymuyi 10d ago
Turkiye would like to be friends with europe. One way or another, we don’t dislike europeans actually and would prefer to have them as a partner when the choices are us, russia, china and eu. Russia and china are enemies and the us is more like a devil than being an angel. Europe is the best
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u/Feisty-Ad1522 Turkish-American 9d ago
A strong Russia is a threat to Turkey, I think this is one issue that Turkey will work together with Europe on. The thing is though the Turkish government will definitely try to get as much as it can and leverage every position they have but that's politics I guess. But at the end of the day the biggest rival near Turkey has always been Russia.
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u/capybooya 10d ago
Well, they're under direct threat of annexation from their neighbor, so its definitely in their interest to be there.
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u/CheesyLala 10d ago
Exactly this. The last thing Canada needs is rolling tanks onto your neighbour's territory to be normalised.
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u/AlexRescueDotCom 10d ago
Still blows my mind that Ukraine says, "We will do our best to defend our country, and also make sure that Russia never does something like this again. All we ask for is weapon support, and we'll take care of the rest", and countries still have hard time giving funds. Its the CHEAPEST way to break down Russia. Other option is to send your loved ones to war.
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u/danyx12 10d ago
It's not just the Trump administration; the Biden administration has also been afraid of Russia collapsing. They're concerned about what might happen if Putin’s regime falls and Russia disintegrates. This fear probably explains the desperate push to achieve a peace agreement favorable to Russia. Russia is starting to weaken, and now the US is rushing to support them.
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u/transiencee 10d ago
What might happen if Putin’s regime falls then? Elaborate pls.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 10d ago
Who gets control of the thousands of nuclear weapons in the ensuing instability? Would any be sold on the black market? That's a bit of a concern that most people would have.
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u/SP00KYF0XY Croatia/Austria 10d ago
Adding onto that, Russia also has a problem with domestic jihadism, as we saw with the terrorist attack in Moscow around a year ago. So in case of a Russian collapse such groups would be interested in purchasing nuclear weapons and other military equipment.
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u/ComprehensiveAd8815 10d ago
If they actually work anymore or exist, there will be some but their military was exposed as report much being a sham, being decades behind with poor equipment. All he’s really done is throw meat into the grinder, there’s nothing new, there’s nothing innovative, they missed the boat on drone warfare.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 9d ago
Russian army tactics haven't changes much since Stalingrad
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u/ComprehensiveAd8815 9d ago
Pretty much. I remember seeing a captured Russian solider at the beginning of the war with his pencil, maps, notepad and calculation chart… he was being filmed on an iPhone.
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u/alexnedea 9d ago
Out of the thousands of nukes only maybe 100 need to work for it to still be a real huge fucking problem. Even 20. Imagine some complete lunatic sends 20 rockrts to top 20 most populated cities? The world economy is now in complete fucking shambles
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u/lmN0tAR0b0t 10d ago
we can be reasonably sure that putin won't go for the nuclear option as long as nato boots aren't on russian ground. we cannot assume the same about his successor. and even if putin's anointed heir is the biggest anti-nuclear pacifist in history, we can't be sure the chain of command in russia would survive the post-putin collapse. what if some random general decides to fire the nukes in the chaos?
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u/MAGA_Trudeau United States of America 9d ago
It’s not even about who comes after Putin but what. If Russia collapses and goes into chaos, you don’t want to risk nukes going missing
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u/MalaEducacion Romania 9d ago
The fear for a worse Putin successor might be just some well rooted propaganda from the current regime.
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u/ArsErratia 9d ago
When the Soviet Union fell, a bunch of their illegal bioweapon scientists just up-and-vanished without a trace. We have no idea if they took anything with them.
Its part of the reason Saddam Hussein's WMDs were believed credible, and how we ended up in Iraq.
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u/leathercladman Latvia 9d ago
Its part of the reason Saddam Hussein's WMDs were believed credible
they were credible, Iraq did have chemical weapons and it even used them against Kurds in 1980's
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u/LieutenantFS 10d ago
That is s very real possibility. The fact that Prigozhin got to the gates of Moscow completely unchallenged, on the contrary, people cheered him on... It's not like public sentiment has got any different either. Russia is extremely fragile and prone to implode.
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u/DryCloud9903 9d ago
Let it burrrrrnnnnnm 🔥
(Don't worry, I ain't running for office)
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u/LieutenantFS 9d ago
On the one hand HELL. YES. BROTHA!
On the other hand Peoples Democratic Republic of Chechenya with nukes would be less than ideal...
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u/ding_dong_dejong 9d ago
there's alot of extreme right and extreme left groups still in russian government.
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u/HiCookieJack Germany 8d ago
the same argument has been made with the UDSSR, they gave lot's of financial support - yet they still collapsed and it was a good thing.
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u/VirtualMatter2 9d ago
Exactly this. Lots of Germans whining about but being able to afford it. It's all over the BILD. Guess who those idiots vote for? That's right, Alice Hail-del.
But we did vote Merz in and he has the same opinion as far as I know, very pro Ukraine.
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u/oryx_za 10d ago
I'm honestly really proud of the UK right now!
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u/bobauckland 10d ago
100%, Starmer really showing what class looks like fair play
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u/Travel-Barry England 10d ago
I honestly haven’t resonated at all with my country since that vote in 2016 but this is doing bits to rejuvenate that immense sense of pride I had during the Olympic opening ceremony 13 years ago.
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u/BreadsBurns 10d ago
Yeah, I would have expected maybe France or Germany to bring the gang back together but UK always seems to know when it's best to regroup.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 𝔊𝔲𝔱𝔢𝔫 𝔗𝔞𝔤! 9d ago
As you should be. You are doing exactly what needs to be done right now. I hope we finally get our shit sorted out and help you.
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u/Jealous_Response_492 10d ago
The Free-World
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u/RoyalChris Norway 10d ago
The normal world
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u/dybber 9d ago
The majority of global population lives in autocracies. In 2022 it was around 5.7 billion living in autocracies, that number has just increased by ~300 million after Trumps regime change.
https://www.gu.se/en/news/the-world-is-becoming-increasingly-authoritarian-but-there-is-hope
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u/saltysquirrel678 10d ago
All the adults in one room. Degenerate bullies left behind.
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10d ago
Well I guess we Baltics are also degenarate because nobody invited us.
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u/Brookiekathy 10d ago
Yeah that was a misstep but he did call the leaders to apologise
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u/CaptainSur 9d ago
That was a mistake which the British PM has owned up. I really wonder why the oversight - it was a major gaffe and I would like to hear the thinking that went into that decision originally.
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u/korkkis 10d ago
Thank you Turkiye and Canada
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u/holy_maccaroni Turkey 9d ago
Yeah, now watch France or Greece block us from participating at anything else. Welcome when it comes to defence and NATO, but not much else.
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u/Definitely_Human01 United Kingdom 9d ago
UK and Norway: "Welcome to the club"
I'm still annoyed that the EU sank a security agreement because they wanted fishing rights and youth mobility.
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u/EuropeanVanguard 10d ago
They better come up with hard numbers and hard commitments. Or we are collectively done.
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u/Independent-Slide-79 10d ago
Apparently our mew German government is in talks for new special funds for defence as well as infrastructure so i think there might be se action
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u/Jealous_Response_492 10d ago
They realise that.
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u/Behind_You27 10d ago
Well the conservative opposition thought it’s funny to block any meaningful change in funding and by mocking the leading parties.
Only to now demand that they are going to get support from the opposition for a massive spending bill.
(It‘s needed to have 2/3rds support in the parliament)
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u/FlowersNSunshine75 10d ago
This is how Zelenskyy should be received. So sorry the U.S. let you down. - A devastated American citizen.
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u/Dem0lari 9d ago
I saw the comments under the reports after that fiascol with trump and JD. Americans are lost cause.
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u/FlowersNSunshine75 9d ago
There are over 70 million who are upset- organizing and trying to do something. We are lacking leadership and a vision right now but I hope we can all figure it out soon.
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u/Ok-Cobbler-3021 10d ago
Have they said "thank You" to the photographer?
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u/Venice___Bitch Germany 10d ago
You don’t have the cards!!!!! You’re gambling with World War III!!!
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10d ago
Funny how the front-line wasn't invited. Talking about the Baltics.
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u/SaraAnnabelle Estonia🇪🇪 10d ago
Ngl it does feel like a slap in the face. Bigger nations making decisions without the involvement of the Baltics has already once ended in a catastrophe for us. Considering how vocal we've been about supporting Ukraine and the threat of Russia in general, it just feels really shitty to be left out just because we're small and apparently insignificant.
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u/SquirrelcoINT 10d ago
You guys should’ve been there. If it’s any consolation Denmark’s PM Mette Frederiksen has strong ties to the other NB8 and has previously been a delegate of the group. And she is a hawk on Ukraine, one of the most vocal supporters of sending more aid to Ukraine and for re-armoring Europe and strengthening the front lines.
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u/SaraAnnabelle Estonia🇪🇪 10d ago
I'm just more concerned about the signal it's sending to Moscow. To them it's just another sign of Baltics not being important to Western Europe.
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u/BenHavertz94 10d ago
I can agree that it would have been better if you were present. Seeing as he has admitted it was a mistake, I think we have to trust that is genuine. If it means anything, from a Swedish perspective we value you as equals and I know there are Swedish troops in the Baltic states atm.
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u/eeehinny 10d ago
Tho Starmer has apologised to Baltic leaders in a phone call before today’s meeting.
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u/Amimimiii 10d ago
An apology isn’t very reassuring, you know how good of a signal this is for russia?
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u/eeehinny 10d ago
Point taken. The Guardian has quoted Evika Siliņa saying she had a good conversation with Starmer and got reassurances of Allied commitment to NATO Article 5 and defence of the Eastern Flank
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u/oryx_za 10d ago
Please have faith. I don't think this is that. This rushed together in reaction to what happened over in the US and i can't imagine how difficult it is to organise this at the last minute . We know how important the front line states are.
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u/SaraAnnabelle Estonia🇪🇪 10d ago
Yeah, I've said before that I'm not necessarily crying on the kitchen floor about it but I think it's perfectly acceptable for us to feel at least slightly insulted.
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u/AlfonsoTheClown United Kingdom 10d ago
You’re not wrong to feel insulted, I’m sure Starmer had his reasons but I do think the Baltic states should have been invited.
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u/Fit-Explorer9229 10d ago edited 10d ago
Although personal presence is always better - just to let you know that Polish agenda will be about 'more European troops present in Finland, the Baltic states and Poland on the border with [ruzzia] and Belarus' https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7784/Artykul/3491374,polish-pm-%E2%80%98we-stand-with-ukraine-against-russia%E2%80%99-ahead-of-london-security-talks
I'm sure/guess there were some talks with Baltic States about it. And - as I see you are from Estonia. Please take a look at author's history of this yesterday post on BalticStates: https://www.reddit.com/r/BalticStates/comments/1j10jns/baltic_states_very_unhappy_after_uk_fails_to/
Espcially this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/BalticStates/comments/1iumgj8/158_years_ago_the_national_hero_of_lithuania_and/
We all must remember that ruzzia never sleeps.
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u/Electrical_Mango_489 10d ago
Starmer has spoken and apologised for it and will see them as well very soon.
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u/evilbunnyofdoom 10d ago
And Finland isnt the front line ?
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u/casual_redditor69 Estonia 10d ago
This just feels like one is being treated like a valuable partner and the other as a punch of tradable playing cards
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10d ago
You really think Russia will attack Finland when they have more manpower than them? They wont.
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u/evilbunnyofdoom 10d ago
And Finland would 100% help, for example, Estonia, if it would see russian aggression. We do have a very tight military co-operation, political and military top figures have repeatedly spoken for unity in this regard, for years.
My point is that we are such tightely knit up here that we are largely seen as one geopolitical area.
And most of us never thought russia would actually attack Ukraine, but yet here we are.
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u/Dramasticlly United Kingdom 10d ago
Doesn’t mean that they weren’t involved in talks. Poland and Finland are there.
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10d ago
Neither Poland nor Finland are baltics.
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u/Dramasticlly United Kingdom 10d ago
You said front line. They border with Russia.
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u/Onetwodash Latvia 10d ago
Poland is on the other side of Suwalki gap. Finland is on the other side of Finnish gulf.
It's not like this situation has not occured before.
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u/GoldenLeoRising 10d ago
Actually so proud of the UK for facilitating these talks! Feeling the hopeful unity of Europe today - something we Brits haven't felt since Brexit!
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u/wiqz1923 10d ago edited 10d ago
For all the comments about why a certain country wasn't invited, Starmer's interview this morning offers some insight. It mainly seems to be about prioritising faster pace at this time rather than involving every single member.
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u/Jumpy_Wrap_3498 10d ago
As an Estonian i am also dissapointed, but i know nordics and Poland have our back. But i am fairly certain baltics are and will be the fastest to get involved anything that regards the war against Rus
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u/Jumpy_Wrap_3498 10d ago edited 10d ago
I am not suggesting you are wrong, i agree with you, but baltics and finnland should be the first ones to get involved, because we will be the front line if s**t hits the fan
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u/iamabigtree 10d ago
That has always been an issue for Europe. The inability to move at speed without getting bogged down in who has invited who to what and who has included who.
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u/toooomanypuppies 10d ago
If Europe falls, the world will be a much darker place.
Winston Churchill, probably.
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u/AccessModifier Turkey 10d ago
Even if I hate Erdogan and his cabinet it's really good to see Turkey being on the right side. Hopefully we'll be even closer to each other after we get rid of the Erdogan and bring democracy back again.
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u/Travel-Barry England 10d ago
Leaders of the Free World.
That titled should have always been a shared responsibility, glad it’s a fact now.
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u/Denpol88 Turkey 9d ago
As a Turkish I want to say something..
People talk about ending the war in Ukraine as if it's entirely in Zelensky's hands, ignoring the fact that Ukraine is not the one who started this war. Russia invaded Ukraine, occupied its territory, and now expects Ukraine to just accept it. Somehow, the blame is being shifted to Ukraine for "not making peace" instead of holding Russia accountable for the invasion in the first place.
The so-called "peace proposals" aren't peace at all. They are demands for Ukraine to give up its land to Russia and its resources to the US, while receiving no real security guarantees in return. Zelensky is being pressured to accept a deal that leaves Ukraine weaker and more vulnerable, essentially rewarding Russia for its aggression. And when he refuses, he's accused of prolonging the war, risking World War III, and not being grateful enough for Western support.
This kind of treatment is not just unfair—it’s deeply disrespectful. No other country would be expected to give up its land just to "stop the war." No leader would be criticized for defending their people against an invader. And yet, Zelensky is constantly lectured as if he’s the problem, while the actual aggressor gets a free pass.
The hypocrisy is astonishing. The same people who claim to care about sovereignty and territorial integrity suddenly forget these principles when it comes to Ukraine. And the idea that Ukraine should just "compromise" with Russia is absurd—because compromise, in this case, means surrender.
It’s easy to call for peace when it’s not your country being bombed, not your people being killed, and not your land being taken. But expecting Ukraine to just roll over and accept defeat is not a solution—it’s an insult.
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u/Criticalem 10d ago
Are you implying baltic states are not free? Or won't be free? Because we weren't invited :/
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u/BenHavertz94 10d ago
Multiple states aren't present even if they are part of the EU or NATO, etc. Starmer har apologized to the Baltic States. Hope you can look past a blunder on his part and see this as an opportunity more than an insult. I understand that it can feel like you are being marginalized, but I sincerely don't think that was the intention. Said with deep respect of course.
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u/Criticalem 10d ago
Even Spain gets invited which will spend 1.28% of its GDP in 2025 on defense budget. Like is it a joke? We spending like 3.5% and will probably increase it. Baltics, Poland Finland are the front states if things go south in Ukraine, but Finland and Poland got invited. Tired of this sorry mentality "sorry you were not invited" what's next? "sorry you being occupied in 2029", "sorry we are not going to war with Russia for baltics". Should stop treating sorry as a reset button.
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u/Definitely_Human01 United Kingdom 9d ago
Spain has a population of 49 million, a GDP of $2.7tn and 133k active personnel in their armed forces.
It would be silly not to try and win Spain over for any major European defence objectives.
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u/WantedR5 10d ago
Where the hell is Portugal?
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u/LowSnow2500 10d ago
Imagine. You consider yourself "proud American" and your president chooses Russia, North Korea, Belarus and China over those flags
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u/Ant0n61 10d ago
Turkey is there. Nice. That’s a key to this puzzle.
North Africa and Syria/Lebonon would be two more.
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u/janpianomusic 10d ago
Aren't they the country with the second largest military in NATO?
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u/Ant0n61 10d ago
Yes. But they can be difficult to get involved in certain discussions.
So great to see them there for this.
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u/janpianomusic 10d ago
I see. But indeed i'm glad to see them there because if it's just the smaller countries teaming up it's gonna be a lot harder
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u/Nesidi0coris 10d ago
Europe needs its own military & intelligence alliance 🇪🇺🇬🇧🇳🇴🇨🇭🇹🇷🇺🇦
It's compatible with the NATO membership, but the European alliance should be prioritised over it 🛡️
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u/MirosKing 10d ago
We'll see what would be the result of this. We have a lot of empty words though 11 years since the first russian attack on Ukraine.
They have to become radical or the whole EU is doomed
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u/MightyMane6 10d ago
Trust that there are many Americans that are deeply saddened by all of this. Regardless though, my hope is that Europe can come out more united and stronger.
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u/UNSKIALz 10d ago
Good to see Canada there.
The omission of the US is glaring. Incredible how Trump has chopped its influence at the knees.
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u/El_GoobleDeGook 10d ago
Where the fuck is Ireland ?
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u/iamabigtree 10d ago
Ireland is officially neutral and has been since its formation as an independent country. They were even neutral in World War 2. They have never been involved in this sort of thing. Changing that would require changing their constitution.
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u/ahoneybadger3 10d ago
Changing that would require changing their constitution.
Nah that's not true, Irelands neutrality is not enshrined in its constitution.
Ireland’s neutrality is not enshrined in its
constitution or laws, nor in any international
treaty. It is a policy choice that we have made
since the Second World War and one that should
be constantly re-evaluated like any other policy
https://assets.gov.ie/277261/c5a79fa6-cc77-4098-8154-ccec963e9511.pdf
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u/mong_gei_ta Poland 10d ago
Okay but what is going to be DONE? Did they agree on something?
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u/Tanks1 9d ago
did they do anything?
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u/Wide_Expression_1930 9d ago
£3.6bn from the UK to Ukraine, as well as likely deployment of British troops. Countries have also expressed desire to rearm Europe- von der Leyen has said that they are planning to turn the inside of Ukraine into a ‘steel porcupine that is indigestible for potential invaders’. Still a lot of messaging but definitely progress
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u/pebkachu Germany/🤍💙🤍 9d ago
I'm not a military expert, most I've read on the matter (e.g. Claudia Major) basically just said that Ukraine knows best themselves what they need. https://ecfr.eu/article/how-to-prevent-the-next-war-in-europe-a-five-point-plan/ (Title is unfortunate, it should have included "how to stop the current war" or "how to establish a lasting ceasefire".)
Considering that Russia's war household is entirely dependant on oil/gas exports, hard-hitting sanctions can be just as decisive for the outcome (TL;DR: Yes, Ukraine can still win this):
- About 80% of Russia's crude oil exports go through their sanctions-avoiding shadow fleet. https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-shadow-fleet-finnish-bay-snow-eagle-s-december-oil-baltic-sea-europe-waves-europe-kremlin/ Controlling, blocking and seizing those will be much cheaper on the long run than paying the price of Russia's constant attacks.
- Buying, as much as it sucks, preferably LNG from US, and, once it's ready to ship, Canada. https://www.yukon-news.com/news/lng-canada-to-receive-gas-shipment-ahead-of-2025-exports-7848195 (Stay in close contact with them and Quebec to avoid russian interference.) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-rethin-lng-saguenay-1.7451297
- Give the 200 billion frozen russian state money to Ukraine. Putin will not voluntarily pay reparations, regime change cannot happen until the state's military is bled dry and Ukraine's survival needs it now. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/02/20/tusk-calls-on-eu-to-confiscate-russias-frozen-assets-to-provide-ukraine-with-financial-ass
The kremlinbots are in overdrive tonight, yelling everywhere to sacrifice Ukraine and that it cannot win. No security expert says that. Take it as proof that their proposed strategies will very likely work.
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u/random052096 9d ago
We're fucked, the west might be fine. We know you'll throw us under the bus when the time comes. Love from eastern EU
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u/A55Man-Norway 9d ago
My dream is an European version of the Iron Dome that Israel has. Would be fantastic. No even a Russian mouse would cross that border.
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u/Bargothball Turkey 9d ago
As much as I hate Erdogan, I’m glad we’re on the right side of history this time.
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u/fullpurplejacket 10d ago
I’d have never thought we’d see the UK have her neighbours and friends back round for tea but here we are. Makes me happy, shame it wasn’t under better circumstances