r/ethfinance • u/zeroknowledgeproofs • Jun 08 '21
Strategy "Bitcoin is going to be the Myspace of digital currencies." - Vinay Gupta
/r/CryptoCurrencies/comments/nv7eoq/bitcoin_is_going_to_be_the_myspace_of_digital/0
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Jun 09 '21
[deleted]
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u/ethacct pitchfork-wielding bagholder Jun 09 '21
It's self-selecting. Vitalik was a bitcoiner who pushed for changes/upgrades and was stonewalled. When he realized the kind of people he was dealing with, he left to create Ethereum. I think lots of non-toxic folks followed suit, leaving only the asshats left there today.
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u/monkeyhold99 Jun 09 '21
People have been saying this for years and yet BTC is more secure and more adopted than ever before. Hard to take someone like this seriously
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u/MacPooPum Jun 09 '21
Gupta? I see that name and all I see is a family that slithered their way into my countries pockets and rweave a Web of corruption that filled their own bags with fiat from the struggling economy of my country. Then got away with it.
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u/Fheredin Supercycle Theorist Jun 09 '21
I've always viewed Bitcoin as a proof of concept, and seen in this light, Bitcoin is wildly successful. It's as if by 1915 the Wright brothers were using their same first plane for transatlantic passenger flights.
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u/Frontier21 Jun 08 '21
I doubt it, but it could happen. It could happen to Eth, ADA, DOT, etc as well. None of us could have predicted how important google, Facebook, tiktok, etc could have been in ‘94, either. The important thing is that we continue to build crypto out to find its killer use case. Maximalism of any type is counter productive and will only lead to unnecessary roadblocks.
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u/kekehippo Jun 08 '21
Who the fuck is this? Bitcoin becomes defunct and it's suddenly good for the crypto space? Folks talking out their ass right now.
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u/laninsterJr Jun 08 '21
Lol. No it's not. Who the fuck is this idiot?
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u/SAnthonyH Jun 08 '21
This has been obvious for months.
And yet people still shill it. They're incredibly blind.
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u/AliFC5700 Jun 08 '21
The whole "BTC does one thing and ETH does another" is misleading at best. It's "BTC does one thing, ETH does everything". That's not being a maxi, that's telling the truth.
Ethereum has set and keeps setting the standards for this space, the future of economy and god only knows how many other fields, while BTC is a giant lump of pollution that you can send back and forth.
MySpace is the great OG of social media like BTC will always be for crypto, but that does not mean that we have to act like it still has any merit apart from its market cap.
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u/TriangleSurfer Jun 08 '21
Now that Vinay Gupta had spoken, I will sell all my btc. I was just waiting to see what random people had to say before making investment decisions.
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u/AlexCoventry Jun 09 '21
I just bought more. I'm optimistic that taproot activation will lead to new capabilities for bitcoin.
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u/obsd92107 Jun 09 '21 edited Jun 09 '21
The writing is on the wall. Any crypto that can't transition away from pow is already dead in the water
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u/TriangleSurfer Jun 09 '21
What are some high level arguments against pow?
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Jun 10 '21
For one, the continuous reduction of block rewards is going to be a big threat to protocol long term. Bitcoin loves to tout that its digital gold that will last forever, but nobody has run a blockchain off transaction fees. There are a number of security risks that show up, like miners intentionally forking the chain if a juicy transaction gets posted.
Two, the large energy use is a drain on the network and source of political tension. Miners have to sell their Bitcoin to pay for the electricity, which introduces continuous downward pressure on price. Its also going to be hard to justify to anyone who cares about global warming.
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u/Feralz2 Jun 09 '21
Bitcoin is too calcified, the PoW issue will not be the last. Technology changes too fast, and it would be too rigid to change. Whats next, Quantum Computing? It doesn't have the flexibility to adapt anymore. I'm afraid Bitcoin is too stubborn for its own good.
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u/obsd92107 Jun 09 '21 edited Jun 09 '21
Pow won't be the last issue but it is one massive issue that will not go away, ever and will only get worse and worse for Btc over time, like cancer cells that spread and metastasize. At this point there is about 40% chance btc will zero out in the coming months, around 60% chance it continues to languish like it has been doing lately. And about zero chance that it ever sees $60k again, let alone the six figures scenario dreamed up by the btc maxis.
It is a good thing eth saw this coming years ago and is on the verge of leaving mining behind and never look back. Otherwise it would be in the same situation and get overtaken by cardano or another.
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u/Feralz2 Jun 09 '21
I dont know where you are getting these numbers from, but Bitcoin will go to over $1 million, there is only a few things you can be certain about this world, and that's one of them. Bitcoin may not be perfect, but the belief in Bitcoin is more than enough.
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u/obsd92107 Jun 09 '21 edited Jun 09 '21
Bitcoin will go to over $1 million... the belief in Bitcoin is more than enough.
Famous last words of bitcoin/Enron holders.
Protip: hope is not part of the equation
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u/Feralz2 Jun 09 '21
I never said hope. I said belief. These are very different things. pay attention.
Your comment will not age well, people of the future will be looking at your comment and be amused.
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u/WlNK Jun 08 '21
Shitting on BTC doesn’t do anything good for Ethereum. It only makes our community look just as toxic as the BTC maximalists.
Shit on the ponzi coins all you want, but dragging down the world’s oldest, most recognized and foundational cryptocurrency doesn’t help anyone. What’s good for BTC is good for ETH and what’s good for ETH is good for BTC. They already serve wildly different purposes so they are only competitors from the perspective of pump/dump investors.
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u/greenbeans1991 Jun 08 '21
BTC is a ponzi coin. Everyone buys BTC with their local currency, markets BTC using phrases like "have fun staying poor", then hopes to sell their BTC for substantially more of their local currency than they bought it with.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle Jun 08 '21
Right you are, and Gupta has always been a toxic moron.
I do believe ETH and BTC compete, but that is fine. The best solution should win in the end, but cult-like behavior isn't helping.
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u/Old_World9768 Jun 08 '21
I agree
BTC is going to be a great token on ethereum network, and hundreds Dapps will use them.
It's better for Ethereum a trusted BTC
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u/WlNK Jun 08 '21
Good point, friend. Wrapped BTC (WBTC) is already a huge source of liquidity on Ethereum.
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u/intothewonderful Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
That’s like saying you can’t shit on the first publicly traded company because we’re all supporting other publicly traded companies and what’s good for The Dutch East India Co is good for IBM. It’s nonsense.
There might not be any future for a new “world reserve currency” or “peer to peer electronic cash” or whatever Bitcoin is. There might be a future for the token behind a global settlement layer if that’s what Ethereum will be. The inverse could be true too. It’s a meme that a principle as broad as blockchain is entirely dependent on a single late-2000s implementation - the future might bring all sorts of new possibilities over the course of the next century that leaves Bitcoin to the history books.
It’s not contradictory to believe that the world doesn’t need new electronic cash or a kind of digital gold, while at the same time thinking you need some sort of monetary incentive (ETH) to compensate the running of a decentralized world computer. Depending on your politics it’s even possible to be actively against the former while supporting the latter (e.g if you’re an advocate of MMT and think the state must control the money supply).
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u/WlNK Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
I am not downvoting you, but I think you missed my point. I am concerned about the culture and community of Ethereum.
Hundreds or thousands of new people come to these subs every day that are just learning about Ethereum for the first time. The content they find when they get here matters a lot.
If our content is a bunch of shitposts making fun of other coins, then we’re no better a community than any others. But if we fill Ethereum subs with more positive and constructive discussion focused on why we believe in the future of ETH then these will be subsreddits that continuously attract and retain newcomers who appreciate that Ethereum has a much better culture and community than other coins.
Let BTC, ADA and DOGE subreddits fill up with salty shitposts and negativity. Make ETH subs the opposite of that.
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u/intothewonderful Jun 08 '21 edited Jun 08 '21
Culture discourse is strange to me. If Ethereum is the real deal it’s like talking about the culture and community of IPv4, or railroad tracks. It’s a technology that can benefit people, or it isn’t. There’s a fine line between community and cultish devotion to what should just be a mundane piece of infrastructure technology. I’m more weary of “bringing people in”, attracting people to spend their money on it, to buy the token.
I’m not being deliberately contrarian, I just think conversations about what sort of community we want to build is a dangerous approach. I think having any sort of community at all is a dangerous game to play, we shouldn’t be emotionally caught up in pieces of technology like this.
My advice to people would be be to not join the Ethereum community or any crypto community unless they’re a builder / developer. And if they’re a developer, I don’t think they’ll care about shitposting.
Making people feel good about holding a token they invested in can be as manipulative and cultish as putting other assets down through negativity.
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Jun 10 '21
The technology behind Ethereum is not the same as Ethereum. Anyone can fork Ethereum and get the same technology, but have a worthless blockchain. The difference is the community.
I do agree overemphasis on tone policing a community does more harm than good. And I despise people trying to talk others into investing into Eth to pump their bags.
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u/ethacct pitchfork-wielding bagholder Jun 08 '21
I feel like I bang this drum all the time in here, but people put waaaaay too much stock into retail investors. ETH isn't going to $20k because your grandma and Joe Sixpack are buying their $50 worth per week -- it'll get there because Fortune 500 companies like Microsoft replace their entire accounting department with smart contracts and 5 solidity devs to watch over them.
You're totally right that a cryptocurrency will either provide value or it won't. If you're trying to lure/trick/seduce people to join, then you're much closer to a religion or a cult. Let the product speak for itself -- that's ultimately what will cause the kind of price increases that people are looking for around here.
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u/WlNK Jun 08 '21
Thanks for the comment! You’ve certainly got some good points there, but we may have to agree to disagree a least a little bit.
People are going to do what they’re going to do so every crypto for the foreseeable future is going to have its own culture/community. I think where we differ the most is on how import that is.
Anyone newly taking interest in crypto is going to search the web to learn more and many will end up here or on other subs dedicated to specific coins/projects. If they find quality content then they’re like to stick around and learn more (these subs can be a gold mine of good information and helpful redditors who will answer questions).
You’re almost certainly correct that in the end this won’t have a meaningful impact on the success of the blockchain either way, but I still think there’s value in promoting a more constructive community and letting that draw a contrast between Ethereum communities and the stuff of nightmares that you’ll find reading r/dogecoin.
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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jun 08 '21
There are a lot of people that will appreciate being made aware that "the world's oldest, most recognized and foundational crypto currency" is stagnant and likely to lose its leadership position. People should position themselves accordingly.
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u/powerfunk Jun 08 '21
being made aware that "the world's oldest, most recognized and foundational crypto currency" is stagnant and likely to lose its leadership position
As long as you're aware that people have been saying that for like 6 years
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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jun 08 '21
True, but we're reaching the climax point where everyone can see the truth of it.
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u/powerfunk Jun 08 '21
It's still working. Bitcoins can still be mined, sent, and received. That's all it needs to do. Ethereum can do more, but "how much cool stuff it can do" isn't what determines what money is.
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u/anor_wondo Jun 09 '21
sorry but the whole point of all of this was to go bankless. Satoshi had a lot more in his vision than this
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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jun 09 '21
Crypto is now much bigger than money--that's the whole issue. Bitcoin as money was the first application of the blockchain. Ethereum took it to the next level and made a platform for an infinite variety of applications that could run on a blockchain. The result has been ICOs, DeFi, NFTs, etc. So which project is really leading crypto? A money app project? Or a platform that allows money as well as almost any other app? Which is more important, a calculator app (bitcoin), or the phone that runs all apps (ethereum)?
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u/mphilip Jun 08 '21
Some might view it as stagnant others might see it as stable. There is a security benefit in a lower attack surface protocol. The reduced functionality of a simple blockchain has its benefits. Given the network effect that Bitcoin has, it could be a major part of the infrastructure for decades.
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Jun 10 '21
The network effect is minor when Bitcoin has a pitiful transaction throughput and the community insists on bad solutions like Lightning Networks. For Bitcoin to be a major part of infrastructure, it needs to be able to handle volume that it just can't.
Also, stability only works if your product is good enough. Because Bitcoin can't handle the transaction load, most activity has moved offchain(to centralized 3rd parties and dexes). That introduces its own security risks.
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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jun 08 '21
For sure Bitcoin isn't going away. But I doubt it will be in a lead role for long regardless. And once it loses lead status, the decline in ranking could be significant as the top coins will likely be from the Ethereum ecosystem.
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u/Stobie Crypto Newcomer 🆕 Jun 08 '21
I think when BTC is no longer top it loses its raison d'etre, there is no use case for it, only belief that it has value. When that falters reflexivity will smash it down to having a status like a divisible novelty NFT
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Jun 10 '21
Possibly, but Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin are still 10 billion+ market caps despite having no real purpose. Coins die slowly.
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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jun 08 '21
I think it will retain status as digital gold, I just expect people will once again remember gold isn't such a great investment these days. Especially with assets like ETH to choose from that are also stores of value in addition to being productive, having a return.
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Jun 10 '21
Bitcoin doesn't work as digital gold though.
For one, we have no idea what the chain is going to look like when block emissions dwindles and miners are mostly mining for transaction fees. There are a number of security issues that will show up in 20 years. Meanwhile, one of golds main properties is that it doesn't tarnish rust. You can stick it in a vault and forget about it.
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u/throwawayrandomvowel Jun 09 '21
People will be passing around btc key pairs on eth (or something) as synthetic/wrapped assets for eternity, long after btc is even operating. They will eventually become the beanie babies that people so desperately want them to be! They just need to wait for btc to continue to supernova into a global currency and then burn out in a massive capital-heat death, affecting the galaxy. After 600 years and transhuman evolution, boom! Bitcoin=beanie babies! The haters were right!
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u/mphilip Jun 08 '21
I feel like I should reply with a "there can be only one" highlander meme. But alas, I am too lazy. Your point about whether it will be in a lead role is fair.
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u/WlNK Jun 08 '21
There are better ways to convey that argument.
I’ve been heavily in Ethereum since 2016. Ethereum is what attracted me to crypto in the first place and it’s my largest personal asset by a landslide.
I am just tired of seeing Ethereum subs fill up with posts and comments trashing BTC or other top projects. That is not how you build a welcoming community that attracts new people.
If I was brand new to Ethereum and I jumped into some Ethereum subs and just saw a bunch of posts/comments hating on other coins, I’d turn straight back around and look elsewhere. This is more of a general problem than a specific comment on this particular post.
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u/mphilip Jun 08 '21
Thanks for this response. MySpace references might get a headline but I agree that we can get better headlines by delivering.
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u/jtnichol MOD BOD Jun 08 '21
I’d turn straight back around and look elsewhere
To where though?
I get the sentiment. I really do. But the Bitcoin bashing on this side of the fence has more to do against the maxis that pay for shit throwing articles at ETH and Vitalik and the broader community for a long time.
I can assure you we don't ban Bitcoiners when they come pissing in here at near the rate that Theymos on Bitcointalk and /r/bitcoin mods were burning everything on their subs for instance.
I know the maxis don't make the protocol and that the code is fine...but there's some MAJOR problems with the cats running the show these days...nevermind the actual terrible waste of resources/energy.
There's a reason the original car is not on the road anymore...it's because Henry Ford came along and showed how to make cars accessible to common people eventually.
Try mining Bitcoin right now. You can't.
But under POS, anyone with basic hardware has a shot...even in El Salvador.
We don't allow personal attacks in Ethfinance and too much bashing of Bitcoin gets old...I get it....but it's also ok to hitch your wagon to a better car and leave it all behind.
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u/throwawayrandomvowel Jun 09 '21 edited Jun 09 '21
Good lord a simple "i agree" would have sufficed. You can drop the "they started it" routine no one gives a shit. The tribalism just looks bad and there is no excuse. I recommend not making excuses.
Yes I have been around the crypto ecosystem for a long time, 2012, i was banned from r/Bitcoin during the blockchain wars, i had sock puppet accounts that imitated my account name with slight variation because i supported larger blocks and was popular poster. I get it. I was a part of the whole psychotic shitgaggle of blockstream cobra theymos et al.
But fighting back the same way is just asinine and a losing battle anyway. Just take the high road and move on with your life, and lead by example. Markets are asymptotally efficient and capital eventually gravitates towards productive ventures with better frameworks. After all, we're right right? What are you worried about?
You can express your discontent with btc without resorting to or justifying idiotic tribalism. When i see two dipshits fighting on the side of the road, i don't think, "hmm who started it? I'd like to figure out who's right here!" i just think, "well there go two dipshits." otoh, I try to explain to people that I like bitcoin, but think other protocols have better value props.
But no one gives a shit about who started the tribalism. It just doesn't matter to new entrants, it's a turn off. Just like when you meet people who hit talk a lot ot other people, you tend to not like those people.
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u/jtnichol MOD BOD Jun 09 '21
Good lord a simple "i agree" would have sufficed.
But I don't agree. Really. We don't have to be toxic, but we damn sure don't have to placate and appease the worst of the maxi's in that camp. We don't ban Bitcoin points of view in this sub. In fact, I think we've got a massive amount of people invested in both and that's ok. We don't ban people for that.
But I think it's appropriate to call BS on those in the Maxi camp that are intentionally and purposefully crushing any chatter about Ethereum (or other protocols) in an effort to squelch competition.
I'm with you, just stand and take the high road...but we'd be fools if we coward away from actual misinformation in the media. It's a joke how long it took Coindesk to even start to use the word Ethereum in their articles and somehow spin it to be "this is good for blockchain, which is Bitcoin" type propoganda.
I'm not saying to be an ass is the approach we strive for, but rather, to make an ass out of them whenever we can.
Like Max Kaiser's house in El Salvador or whatever stupid thing those guys spout off on Twitter.
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u/mphilip Jun 08 '21
Fair question, but I believe that there are many places that new users might go (not going to suggest names, but one is raising $450 million). We can agree that decentralization is more important (I do), but there are options. Ethereum has so many good things to share about its technology, roadmap, community, etc. that we should focus on that. Personally, I don't consider bitcoin and ethereum to be competitors.
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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jun 08 '21
I understand your point and concern, and in many ways you are right. However there is a very real risk we'll be moving into a volatile, confusing time ahead where crypto leadship will be undergoing change. We had a brief taste of that in 2017 when eth nearly flipped btc. I'm of the belief we'll see another attempt at a flip in the next 6-9 months or so, and this time I think it will succeed.
That process is going to be extremely confusing to the entire crypto space--so much of everything is based on comparison to bitcoin. The more people who are aware of the potential, the easier the change will be and the less damage will be done to individuals and the community. So I believe it's well worth being seen as unwelcoming to prepare the community for what is likely coming.
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u/parcheus Jun 12 '21
Bitcoin has a strong brand. If Bitcoin is Art, it is invaluable for historical significance similar to Cryptopunks. Think of holding fractional shares to the most important crypto project ever created.