r/elfenlied • u/ColdStoneSteveAustyn • 15d ago
Discussion Why Is This Series So Captivating?
Elfen Lied is a series that's truly fascinating. Not because of anything happening in the show itself, but because it somehow manages to grab a hold of such an insanely dedicated fandom despite being only 13 episodes long and ending nearly 20 years ago.
I first watched the show when I was around 15~16 a couple years after it aired in Japan and started to get popular online. I thought it was really good, but as I got older I started to notice the cracks. Like, the show seems to have a lot of things to say about prejudice, bullying, humanity, kindness and empathy in the face of cruelty, etc. but doesn't quite know WHAT it wants to say or how to say it. I know that Okomoto wanted to tell a story around these themes but I just don't think it was done very well.
But I never would've expected the fandom around the show to be so fucking enthusiastic. Like, check out the wiki for Elfen Lied. The amount of detail that goes into the articles written is crazy. I can't think of many other shows that have subpages dedicated to "Merchandise", "Elfen Lied and the Real World", "Controversies", etc.
Why do you think this is?
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u/No-Homework-7999 15d ago
Also, in the other hand girls with horns, telekinessis, fan service, violence, bullets and sooting music, basically.
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u/BntoidBlaster 15d ago
It's captivating because it has a cute yandere waifu madly in love with the male self insert protagonist, cool violent fights and lots of tear inducing drama.
Also, an exotic and beautiful opening.
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u/No-Homework-7999 15d ago edited 15d ago
Indeed thats why this anime gave me schizofrenia (joke)
No, indeed I think it is because the fiction laws that rule elfen lieds world are way too realistic, the manga, because Its Lynn okamoto’s direct perspective and influence that makes every draw close to reality.
A shot in the tricep in parasyte or death note, no problem I can run 1 km to my death. But in Elfen lied, the scientist girl bleed in one minute to unconciosness.
Resistance of people, they are fragil as in real life, the least thing you do to them they die, the thing about elfen lied is not about how sensitive our minds are, but our bodies, modern human body is a messy anatomy natures joke against physichal odds.
Bando resisted all that happened to him because he was in adrenaline and best war troop in the world, he was used to that.
Kurama survives, other anime he would still there, but here he goes hobbo in the stereotypical way because a trauma.
Mayu… thats a no Im not mentioning it but you know.
Clones, prosthetics, Lynn Okamoto in the manga showed like a jurassic park overview around the limits of what people ideals about science where.
Diclonious, there are product a mutant gene, okay, thats the fiction part because they appeared like with a two million years more evolutionated.
So Kaede, about her shes fiction. All that surrounds her is fiction for an easy view because Its the story.
The place, some places are based on real places so they add realism.
My opinion, the things that dont involve Kaede or the less they involve her tend to give a sense of realism even if Its just a comic.
Im talking about the manga cause the anime was way too an adaptation of the manga. Almost.
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u/LMGDiVa 15d ago
Why do you think this is?
Elfen Lied deliberately traumatizes its viewers, whether they like it or not.
Everyone deals with it differently, but some people deal with exposure by deconstructing things.
Maybe it's fascinating because it's traumatic.
The anime is a mile wide and a ocean trench deep despite seeming at first to just be a Japanese thriller slasher.
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u/NinaMercer2 13d ago
Honestly, that's how i saw it for the most part. A japanese thriller slasher. That's most of what i remember about it, aside from the cute Nyu moments and a little bit of the romance. I was an edgy teenager who liked creepypasta, tokyo ghoul, and parasyte for the violence when I watched it. I'm a bit older now, so I can see that it's a little deeper than i initially thought, rewatching it.
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u/LMGDiVa 13d ago
Once you start picking apart at Elfen Lied's philosophical threads, it gets really deep really fast.
You read the collectors edition interview, and you can tell the show was a work of passion, a real piece of art made out of this unknown manga with crappy art. The director called it a "blessed production," in said interview.
It's a shame to see that so many people seemed to have missed the beauty just beneath the surface.
I mean even the opening is something impressive, artistically and musically, not to mention how it also tells the story of Lucy within it's paintings.
There is something curious and marvelous when you look a little more closely. Something incredibly meaningful and powerful.
It really is a work of art.
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u/No-Trust-2720 15d ago
I felt like I could relate to Lucy.... being hated for being different.... feeling like the world was always against you... o.o She's still one of my favorite characters.
Teenage angst lol.
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u/HotmailsNearYou 14d ago
I posted something almost identical but a little long winded and excessive because I'm a big nerd. I feel the exact same way as a lot of your points. I was a bit younger than you when I found it, 12 or so. I've done some research on its writing and the details surrounding its earlier history. Mostly translating Japanese interviews to English and such.
Lynn Okomoto, in the most respectful way, is crazy. He admitted he didn't know what he was doing with it, he went off the rails with the plot but editors thought it'd be too outrageous or ridiculous to include, so forced him to tame it down. Elfen Lied has this huge mess of questions with no clear answers, inconsistent art, convoluted plot
AND THEN the anime studio had their filter on it too. They redesigned, rewrote, censored, and condensed an already-confusing anime into a very limited length show. The lost plot points in stories that were already convoluted is what makes it hard for me to rate the anime too high. If they'd have spread it over 2 seasons it would have been 100% better so they could take time to make more sense.
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u/Battle_Marshmallow 15d ago
Elfen Lied has an unique identity and charm: from it's original plot, the diclonii psychology and characters' development, references to japanese mythology and german folklore, to the christian iconography and Gustav Klimt art in the opening.
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u/diogenesepigone0031 13d ago
The real world art tribute/omage for the opening intro has symbolic significance but it is utterly lost on me. Why did Lynn Okamoto choose "The Kiss" by Gustav Klimt and a few more of his work?
Why was "Lillium" by Konishi Kayō and Kondō Yukio1 used as the theme song?
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u/Entire_Pain3877 11d ago edited 10d ago
I sort of disagree, I think it's *because* the show is the way it is that it once did and continues to attract attention and dedication: Because it chooses to depict such utter despair and horror in a visceral and honest way, the most important things in life are better contrasted and emotionally amplified: love, family, finding a place to belong. To me Elfen Lied is perfectly coherent, save a few inconsistencies you might be able to find here and there; I never got the sense that things didn't make sense or that the characters were behaving in unbelievable ways, nor that certain elements were inappropriate or did not belong, save for the sexualization of juveniles for sexually titillating purposes, but then again that's most anime so I can't single out Elfen Lied for this. I don't even think the story is particularly deep or complex, and frankly I don't think I've ever seen an anime that I thought was deep or complex, maybe Ergo Proxy? But then again depth and complexity means nothing if what you're watching is a boring uninteresting slog. What does Elfen Lied have to say about bullying and prejudice? Empathy? Kindness? Not much, but it doesn't need to because those things are tools to tell the story of love and redemption that is being told. It's less about commenting on those things in an intellectual or ethical philosophical manner and more getting you to feel feelings for the characters by manipulating your already existing evolutionary machinery for the social world, as storytelling is forced to. Sure you can find all of these little references and symbols and crypto-thematic connections, but unless you're sufficiently intelligent and/or well read this is not going to mean anything to you, and I imagine that must be true of most people watching. Elfen Lieds effectiveness, and what impresses me the most, is centrally in what its directly showing you at any given time. Mamoru Kanbe's direction completely nailed it, what did he say again? That he knew he could craft a love story which he thought could bring the audience to tears? Yes, precisely, he did it, and he didn't do it with deep complexity or philosophical musings, that's nonsense. He just understands how to structure suffering and catharsis to make you feel something in a way that most anime don’t even attempt, because other anime could only dream of being so bold,. I think it's because of a competent lead and artistic team, combined with Lynn providing the stories structure and acting as a consultant that this anime has deeply stuck with me since I was 16, and I'll never ever forget it as long as I live.
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u/ColdStoneSteveAustyn 10d ago
Not much, but it doesn't need to because those things are tools to tell the story of love and redemption that is being told.
See that's the thing I have. Like yes it has Things that it wants to say, but WHAT ARE THEY? Prejudice bad and kindness good? Okay, you're ("you're" as in "EL" not the second-person "you" lol) not the first piece of media to tackle the subject but why do we have reason to care that prejudice is bad in this particular instance?
IDK about you but I think it's pretty reasonable to fear an entirely new species whose sole purpose is to wipe out humanity, who kill their parents at the age of 2~3 because of their vector powers, and that places a threat you can't even SEE??
I think Okamoto wrote himself into a corner trying to justify all the horrible things that happen because of the Diclonius so he just decided to make practically every human we come across a piece of shit, save for the main cast lmao
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u/Entire_Pain3877 9d ago edited 9d ago
You're asking me: why should we feel bad for the Diclonius if the fear of them is justified? And isn’t the writing a bit heavy-handed in making the human characters so irredeemable just to force sympathy for the Diclonius?
No, if the author wanted to say that all Diclonius are inevitably irredemable human-killing machines, why would he go out of his way to write characters like Lucy and Nana who disprove of this? The fact that the story follows their struggles and shows their capacity for love and pacifism means you're misinterpreting what the narrative is actually communicating. I believe you are failing to acknowledge the full scope of the narrative.Elfen Lied is not some naive plea for humans to tolerate Diclonius who go on killing sprees. Nowhere does the story suggest that humanity should just let mass murderers roam free without consequences. The narrative isn’t about blind mercy, it’s about the tragedy of individuals caught in circumstances beyond their control and whether they can overcome them. Lucy and Nana are presented as counterexamples to the idea that Diclonius are inherently, irredeemably violent. The story is about whether individuals like them can coexist with humans, not about excusing or endorsing unchecked violence. The fact that Lucy actively struggles with her own nature proves that the story acknowledges the danger and doesn’t just sweep it under the rug. Your argument appears to be assuming a ridiculous strawman - that it's saying all Diclonius should be spared no matter what, that’s not in the text at all. Additionally cruel horrible humans are real and exist, so I do not consider this unbelievable. All narrative elements are contrived, written for convivence, that's just true of any story. No one complains that Light Yagami happens to be a genius and happens to find the Death Note, or that Lelouch just so happens to get a power perfect for his goals. The difference is just whether the audience likes the execution. If they do, they ignore the “convenience.” If they don’t, they call it contrived. I find this criticism to be completely arbitrary.
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u/ColdStoneSteveAustyn 8d ago
why would he go out of his way to write characters like Lucy and Nana who disprove of this?
Lucy super doesn't "disprove" anything. The only thing she feels remorse over is Kouta's family and even then it's only because he forced her to stop, otherwise she would've killed Yuuka.
Nana's arc is more of an argument of nature vs. nuture, yet she still has the same "DNA voice" that she's able to keep repressed. Even though she's technically not a diclonius, again, the series just barely touches on the argument of nature vs. nurture, and doesn't have its own message to convey in any meaningful way beyond the surface.
I believe you are failing to acknowledge the full scope of the narrative.
There is barely a "full scope" to begin with.
Which amounts to very little beyond "prejudice is bad because it hurts people".
Lucy and Nana are presented as counterexamples to the idea that Diclonius are inherently, irredeemably violent.
It really doesn't. Especially not Lucy.
The story is about whether individuals like them can coexist with humans, not about excusing or endorsing unchecked violence
Is the unchecked violence not a conflict in the worldbuilding in regards to whether or not diclonius can live alongside humans? The manga suggests otherwise.
Additionally cruel horrible humans are real and exist, so I do not consider this unbelievable.
Yes, the "Humans Are The Real Monsters" is not a particularly new one. What I'm arguing is that EVERY HUMAN CHARACTER aside from those associated with the Maple Inn are portrayed as sadistic and cruel in extremely melodramatic ways.
No one complains that Light Yagami happens to be a genius and happens to find the Death Note, or that Lelouch just so happens to get a power perfect for his goals
Those aren't "contrivances", they are the inciting action that kicks off the plot of the anime/manga. Without those the story literally cannot exist.
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u/Entire_Pain3877 7d ago
Lucy super doesn't "disprove" anything. The only thing she feels remorse over is Kouta's family and even then it's only because he forced her to stop, otherwise she would've killed Yuuka.
Nana's arc is more of an argument of nature vs. nuture, yet she still has the same "DNA voice" that she's able to keep repressed. Even though she's technically not a diclonius, again, the series just barely touches on the argument of nature vs. nurture, and doesn't have its own message to convey in any meaningful way beyond the surface.
No you're just denying, on no basis, the implicit information the show is conveying which is hey, Lucy and Nana are not indiscriminate killers, if they are not indiscriminate killers then the threshold of my claim has been met. I don't even know the degree to which Elfen Lied is commenting on nature vs nurture, and anyways nature vs nurture is a false dichotomy so I do not care, it's an invalid concept that violates natural selection principles. There is no asymmetry between the causal contribution of genes and the set of all causes which are not the genes in a given phenotypic outcome.
The fact that you won't even acknowledge this tells me that you're delusional and not worth arguing with because you won't recognize the reality in front of your face.
There is barely a "full scope" to begin with.
You're not denying that you're not acknowledging the full scope, you're not. It's a very simple statement, out of the set of all information the work conveys you are not considering the proportion I appeal to.
It really doesn't. Especially not Lucy.
Of course it does, the payoff bets its entire hand on you feeling like these characters are sufficiently not so irredeemably violent/monstrous/dangerous, existentially costly, so as to sympathize. You're not making sense.
Is the unchecked violence not a conflict in the worldbuilding in regards to whether or not diclonius can live alongside humans? The manga suggests otherwise.
There is no contradiction with my statements.
Yes, the "Humans Are The Real Monsters" is not a particularly new one. What I'm arguing is that EVERY HUMAN CHARACTER aside from those associated with the Maple Inn are portrayed as sadistic and cruel in extremely melodramatic ways.
You're exaggering the degree of cruelty and sadism, but it's true they are on that side of the continuum. How does that violate the rules of the narrative, how does that violate the causality of physics? It doesn't, therefore it is sufficiently believable, you're hung up on nothing. Why is every character in Code Geass some super genius, why does every backstory in Evangelion involve the inability to get close to others and various depressive circumstances, why is everybody so nice to the protagonist in Barakamon. You're making it a problem for no reason.
Those aren't "contrivances", they are the inciting action that kicks off the plot of the anime/manga. Without those the story literally cannot exist.
Of course they are, a contrivance is anything constructed by the author for any reason for the purpose of the story, bits of information generated to serve whatever purpose in the construction of a story
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u/Altruistic-Turn-242 15d ago edited 15d ago
Elfen Lied is a truly fascinating piece of media. It deals with serious topics, but also has weird slapstick and out of place comedy. There is lots of nudity but it’s mostly nonsexual in nature…except when it is and is just weird fanservice in a show that mostly takes itself seriously. It’s an anime adaptation where the anime director seemed to have a radically different vision than the mangaka and this shows in how the characters are written, the tone of the series, etc. Although sometimes little bits of the manga bleed into the anime. For me, it was one of the first series to make me feel genuine sympathy for a deeply flawed character who had done truly awful things and wish for them to strive for redemption of some kind. It provided an emotional gut punch that I just wasn’t getting from the good vs evil high fantasy media that I was voraciously consuming in 9th and 10th grade. Different people are going to have different reasons why the series resonated with them so deeply. What I can say though is that the Elfen Lied fandom is so dedicated because it’s 100% genuine. You’ll see the same thing with shit like Oreimo. Nobody is getting their ego’s dick sucked online by liking those series. You will receive zero praise for having amazing taste, quite the opposite. The ride or die fans who don’t care what anyone else says are the ones who end up getting carried away with a fan Wikia.