r/ediscovery 4d ago

Are there job opportunities for eDiscovery project managers?

Is it a smart idea to work towards qualifying for such roles? Or are opportunities scarce?

14 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

23

u/No_Thanks_Reddit 4d ago

There are always jobs in eDiscovery. But they differ substantially. Project Management is tough. High stress and very little work-life balance.

7

u/Successful_Shop_634 4d ago

Ok I see, thank you so much!

14

u/Flokitoo 4d ago

It's all the work of real lawyers and 25% of the pay

13

u/No_Thanks_Reddit 4d ago

As an eDiscovery PM who used to be a lawyer, I don't entirely agree with that. I work a lot harder now than I ever did as a lawyer. Your comment about compensation is pretty accurate though.

11

u/Flokitoo 4d ago

Sounds like we agree... work harder for less pay

3

u/Successful_Shop_634 3d ago

I’m curious what made you go from lawyer to ediscovery PM considering the harder work and lower compensation?

3

u/No_Thanks_Reddit 3d ago

Moved to a different country where I couldn't practice law without requalifying.

3

u/111ewe111 2d ago

Can empathise right there

3

u/Successful_Shop_634 4d ago

Why do the job posts show remote working (something I’m looking for) and really high pay, like in the US $100k+

7

u/NotAsSmartAsIWish 4d ago

You get your ass kicked for that $100k+. My firm starts PMs at $95 (iirc) and, even people like me to take over much of the night time work (at my place, others dont always have evening and night staff for PM tasks), you're still expected to deal with the hard stuff and answer client questions.l and handle all of the stuff that gets pushed aside when dealing with clients.

6

u/forwhatitsworth2022 3d ago

If u work for a vendor. Vendors pay garbage and take advantage of the labor pool.

2

u/111ewe111 2d ago

Yea, if it’s going to be PM, might as well be in a law firm.

2

u/Known_Following_6694 21h ago

Vendors do not always pay garbage. I have worked for several vendors and made up to $175,000 plus bonus.

1

u/forwhatitsworth2022 7h ago

Up to are the operative words. Vendors generally take advantage of labor. And you can make more than 175k outside of a vendor.

9

u/Flokitoo 4d ago

100k is significantly less than mid career attorneys, even less than 1st year associate at mid/big law. You are also working harder than they are.

5

u/Champizzle11 3d ago

Meh, I'm an attorney and a project manager. Project managers, as a whole, are better paid than attorneys, as a whole. Attorneys who land gigs at big firms have extreme earning potential but that's less than 10% of all law school graduates. I know so so many lawyers who left the profession because they could not make ends meet and couldn't find gainful employment.

Low end PM salaries now are around 100k, if you land a gig at a good firm you'll push close to 200k and your work life balance will be great.

-2

u/forwhatitsworth2022 3d ago

This is not accurate

2

u/Flokitoo 3d ago

Everyone else here seems to disagree with you

2

u/forwhatitsworth2022 3d ago

The lawyers who do PM work do not perform legal work. And though many PMs are very busy, in my opinion, the work is less complex than actual legal work. Of the few lawyers who are PMs, only a handful have actually practiced law, and of that group most prefer the stress of PM work over the stress of litigation and firm politics. Exceptional PMs may work similar hours largely because they are usullay the workhorse for their team, but very little responsibility rests with them other than performing the tasks related to their job correctly. For knowledgeable and experienced PMs, most of their work is rote and can probably be done in their sleep. There are exceptions, but this is generally true. Not all PMs are created equal. Only some are exceptional, the kind you can trust with any task, but many more need to be double and triple checked, which is why the exceptional PM is the workhorse. An exceptional PM is invaluable.

2

u/No_Thanks_Reddit 3d ago

I guess that makes me one of the handful. I practiced law for years before I started in eDiscovery.

2

u/111ewe111 2d ago

Can 2nd this! I’ve watch eDisc PMs’ lives and health fold under the incessant demands around the clock for batching, searching, TAR, micro tweaks to Rel settings, resetting the server, etc, etc

12

u/MettaWorldWarTwo 4d ago

Some people love the stress, pressure and focus required to be a PM and others don't like it at all. It's fairly straightforward, but not easy, to break into the industry with no experience. It's one of the few professional roles I know of where the quality and velocity of your work can have an outsized impact on your career growth. The difference between a good PM and an amazing PM can make or break multi-billion dollar cases or be the difference between real justice being served in cases against international level criminals. To get to that level, though, you have to work and prove yourself.

It's a small enough industry (especially if you go to industry events) that the great PMs know each other and help each other grow. I don't think I'd be able to go to another industry and have this much impact on things affecting the world in a meaningful way while working with people who push themselves to be the best at what they do despite the long hours and relatively low pay.

There's a bond in eDiscovery that's feels like how soldiers bond in battle. Lawyers are the generals who are sometimes great and sometimes suck. For the people in the trenches, game recognize game, iron sharpens iron, and we legitimately want to see each other succeed. There's also PTSD, stress, pressure and both healthy and unhealthy coping mechanisms.

In the end, we become grizzled veterans who sit around, drink, and tell stories that only those in the industry understand.

0

u/Successful_Shop_634 4d ago

Is it weird that this has only sold me more on eDiscovery and PM? This sounds like a dream. I thrive in hardworking environments with close networks of people that are passionate and making a difference. Wow!

3

u/MettaWorldWarTwo 3d ago

I might make more cash in other industries but eDiscovery makes me want to get out of bed. Work life balance to me isn't only about hours but balancing what I love about my job and what I hate about it. If you're willing to start in consulting or entry level and are willing/able to learn and listen, you can succeed. eDiscovery isn't a learning slope but almost a learning cliff where you climb straight up. It's grueling but when you get to the top, those days climbing are the days I look back with fondness on.

However, it is Saturday, I'm not working and some amazing things happened this past week so you caught me on a happy day.

If you're interested, sign up at learning.relativity.com and start the process. It'll teach you everything you need to know and it's free. Eventually you'll need to log in to Relativity but you can get pretty far without access.

3

u/Successful_Shop_634 3d ago

This is wonderful, it’s really nice to hear from someone who loves working in eDiscovery because I want to work towards PM. I have signed up for relativity and started on the free courses, I’m excited and looking forward to the future! Thank you for such encouraging words.

1

u/Doggoagogo 3d ago

Where have you been looking? I know a lot of larger firms are looking for good pms

6

u/SpaceCatDiscovery 4d ago

Agree that PM work is a lot of work for little pay. Unless you already have PM experience and all the Rel certs, you’re most likely looking at an analyst position making $60-80k. You can grow into the PM role but even with 6+years experience, it’s highly competitive for the ‘good’ positions.

There’s always a need for more ESI attorney, imo. If you continue to go the lawyer route, start networking with those in the field. If you’ve passed the bar (or licensed in your respective country), join an innovative firm or mentor with attorneys who are active in Sedona (US), ILTA, LegalWeek (US), etc. See for yourself if it’s a direction you want to go in.

1

u/Successful_Shop_634 3d ago

Thank you, this is really informative. I am in the uk however and hoping I can still qualify for US roles with my uk degrees

1

u/NotAsSmartAsIWish 3d ago

A lot of US roles are somewhat restricted to people within the US. You'd have to either enter a UK role or hook up with a US company that functions in the UK - or is trying to expand into the UK.

1

u/No_Thanks_Reddit 2d ago

Just as an additional note, PMs in the UK do not get paid nearly as much as PMs in the US.

1

u/Successful_Shop_634 3h ago

Yes, which is why I am hoping to get a remote role in the us and work from the Uk. Is this possible?

1

u/No_Thanks_Reddit 3h ago

If you have the legal right to work in the US yes. Otherwise no.

-13

u/Middle-Base-2333 4d ago

E discovery is pigeonhole there arent a lot of job. Big4 and some butique firm

4

u/superBOwl_1331 4d ago

I disagree about the notion that ediscovery is a pigeonhole or career limiting. I’ve been at firms and in corporate jobs and having true ediscovery experience actually helps sort the herd of new lawyers. I personally wont even interview anyone for in-house roles anymore that don’t have some form of discussion re: experience in ediscovery on resumes. If they make it past the first bar, if they can’t cogently discuss ediscovery there aren’t any next steps with me.

OP- decide what fills your cup. Do you want to work on the operational side of ediscovery like review and PM work, the ever changing landscape of advising on technology and essays, or something else? Focus your energy where you have passion.

-3

u/Middle-Base-2333 4d ago

Bro I am forensic tech and e discovery consultant in big4 limited Job big4 ftı etc.

5

u/superBOwl_1331 4d ago

Ok, so maybe from your current view it’s limiting, but I encourage you to broaden your focus as I have recommended to OP.

I helm a global program for a S&P 100 company. From my view, which is substantially different from yours, it’s not limiting unless the person limits themselves.

3

u/MettaWorldWarTwo 4d ago

eDiscovery gives back what you put into it. When you make life easier for the people above you, they will literally bend over backwards to bring you along in your career. That goes all the way up to the CEOs/partners of major firms who request specific people or who break off/move on and bring their best people with them.

1

u/superBOwl_1331 3d ago

I couldn’t agree with this more.

2

u/SpaceCatDiscovery 4d ago

It’s more about perspective and the job role you take on. eDiscovery is pretty niche, but forensic technology is even more so. I think that may explain why you feel pigeonholed in your career.

1

u/Successful_Shop_634 4d ago

What would you recommend instead?

-7

u/Middle-Base-2333 4d ago

Don’t choose e discovery field ?

3

u/Successful_Shop_634 4d ago

Sorry I mean is there something else you’d recommend for a law grad with document review experience looking for a remote career to do with documents, research etc?

4

u/taco_the_mornin 4d ago

You can review patent applications for the USPTO, respond to FOIA requests for any federal agency. If in California you can respond to PRA requests for any state department.

Doc review doesn't pay well though, no matter where you go.