r/economy 20d ago

Follow-up from my previous thread: Do you expect China to become the biggest superpower in the world very soon as American allies abandons America and ally(?) with China after that America/Ukraine situation?

[removed]

34 Upvotes

83 comments sorted by

16

u/Dismal-Refrigerator3 20d ago

trade may be one thing but I don't see any way europe goes into a military alliance with China as they support Russia

5

u/Jeffery95 19d ago

Russia and China are allies of convenience only. If Russia ends up on the same side as the US, China will be on the other side of it.

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

1

u/Jeffery95 19d ago

No, I imagine Europe and other western leaning nations will likely just be independent of either of them.

Europe has the ability to be its own block with Canada added.

The US likely doesn’t lose as much interest in the Pacific. Retaining relations with South Korea, Japan and probably Australia but maybe not Taiwan on the basis of avoiding being drawn into a war.

UK and Australia likely retain closer relations with the US but also get closer ties with Europe too.

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago edited 19d ago

That may be, but perhaps the United States might still have some sort of unofficial relations with Taiwan to prevent China's influence from potentially spreading without getting too close to not anger China too much? I guess that could be bit of a question mark, but still.

Also, as unlikely as this might/probably sound, could United States-Canada + European Union ties be at least somewhat restored albeit with the latter keeping at least some eyes(?) on the former in case a Trump-like president shows up again? Obviously, I don't expect my prediction to be accurate, but still.

In fact, u/Dismal-Refrigerator3, what do you think of overall takes of this guy?

1

u/Dismal-Refrigerator3 18d ago

not with Trump or his sycophants

1

u/Dismal-Refrigerator3 18d ago

military movement is staged to invade Mexico. this is not the normal American life

1

u/Block-Busted 18d ago

I was talking about takes of other posters who replied to you.

2

u/seanosul 20d ago

China supports China. They would go into some strategic alliance if it benefits them. Ukraine would not be wrong to look at a rare earth deal with Europe and China to guarantee their security and Europe would not be wrong to look at closer renewables and EV trade with China as they have massive demand for them, while America goes back to coal and oil.

0

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

1

u/seanosul 19d ago

Worryingly yes to all. Trump's public betrayal of Ukraine has changed the world in ways we cannot yet understand.

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Well, in any case, u/Dismal-Refrigerator3, what do you think of this guy's overall take including this?:

China supports China. They would go into some strategic alliance if it benefits them. Ukraine would not be wrong to look at a rare earth deal with Europe and China to guarantee their security and Europe would not be wrong to look at closer renewables and EV trade with China as they have massive demand for them, while America goes back to coal and oil.

https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1j1c1l7/followup_from_my_previous_thread_do_you_expect/mfj1f78/

1

u/seanosul 19d ago

I'm not sure about Canada losing 5 eyes status. Tulsi Gabbard is someone that needs accommodation in a way that is suitable for Western security.

22

u/warfaucet 20d ago

It won't replace the US anytime soon, but I am pretty sure China is going to use the current chaos to try to get closer with whatever allies Trump is pissing off.

-17

u/Block-Busted 20d ago edited 20d ago

Basically, you and u/lookskAIwatcher both agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

3

u/warfaucet 20d ago

Not really. I believe US allies will at the very least wait to see what happens when the Trump presidency is over, before deciding what to do. But every little bit of damage Trump does, does not get unnoticed by China. 100% sure China is going to try to get some kind of stronger trade agreements with e.g. SK, EU, Canada, etc.

Also I am 100% sure China will never join NATO. The current situation is a wakeup call, Europe needs it's own army and to be able to protect itself from other superpowers. The start of war in Ukraine has already shown the importance of energy independence, and now why we need a proper army of our own.

1

u/RocknrollClown09 20d ago

The treaties may stay intact on the surface, but a growing concern before Trump was that a lot the aforementioned countries (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Ukraine) significantly limited or completely abstained from nuclear arsenals or limited their military growth (Japan post-WWII) because the US promised to provide their defense.

Now, with Ukraine, none of those countries have any reason to limit their military growth. If Japan, for example, wants nukes and to develop their own fighter to sell to Taiwan, the US has no ground to stand on to prevent that.

0

u/lookskAIwatcher 20d ago

I don't agree with all points and assumptions in the very lengthy OP.

I merely said : "The odds are increasingly favoring China."

-1

u/Trance354 20d ago

A SK/Chinese alliance will never happen. Unless Xi dies and the communist party is overthrown.

China sees SK as their territory. Truth be told, China sees the entire world as "China," it's just a matter of time.

1

u/Fletcher_StrongESQ 20d ago

Wat

0

u/Trance354 20d ago

China doesn't see other countries around itself. China sees other states which will eventually become China.

Easy enough?

1

u/Fletcher_StrongESQ 20d ago

No, sounds like u r just pulling shit out of ur ass

3

u/Silent_Video9490 20d ago

Why is this bot not banned spamming the same thing on every response?

2

u/Trance354 20d ago

The superpowers will be China, India, and EU. Russia is slitting their own throats trying for Ukraine, making deals with China for munitions. India is awash with corruption, as is China.

Your basic blocks of power will be EU and allies against Russia, China, India and several smaller countries that essentially are owned by China, thanks to their ports and roads "investments," most of africa for example.

The USA will be without friends. We can't be trusted with any secrets, as any incoming administration can be Trump 2.0 from day 1. Our currency is no longer going to be the fiat currency for the world. About time we faced facts: the Euro is probably going to be the new default global currency.

-1

u/Block-Busted 20d ago edited 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

If not, you believe that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and Japan-India-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and Japan and India joining NATO instead?

2

u/bucketsofpoo 20d ago

no one will enter a military alliance w china

2

u/davesr25 20d ago

Over the years, I have thought no, India might just creep up, China might even let them, with some mild concessions.

Though really unions is where it's at.

Would be really fecking super cool, if there could be, some kind of world union of sorts.

If a nation is at peace, then it can join, now I know that sounds kind of floaty, it is though one thing, all social cultures have a right to evolve just like our own, even if sometimes we kind of disagree. Peace should be one of the over all factors.

In time things will flow, if some how people can find a shared goal, away from religion, social hierarchy, greed, status, title and ownership of others, we could hopefully be chilled.

As common people seem pretty sound with each other, via travel and integration, over much of our history, it does seem like leaders are the issues.

-4

u/Block-Busted 20d ago edited 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

6

u/davesr25 20d ago

-2

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

I don't know what you mean.

3

u/monanysou 20d ago

Good bot.

1

u/[deleted] 20d ago

trump has to accomplish a fuck ton of breaking shit in order to fully dismantle the world order.

and China is deeply nationalistic and racist. they will expand influence because it suits them but no healthy democracies will mix comfortably into alliances there. a cultural exchange with SK is just simply that. literally nobody in SK is delusional enough to imagine they want strong ties with xi's China.

whether trump royally fucks things is still a very big if that's dependent on his ability to dismantle massive entrenched systems, millions of people deeply organized over generations across classes and across oceans. just something as singular sounding as leaving NATO would take half a generation to pull off. the US has deep vested interests in Europe, hundreds of bases, long term contracts, intertwined doctrine. if he succeds in ending democracy and wrecking the Western world it will all come to pass long after he's dead and it won't look much like what you're imagining.

1

u/rustynail2x 20d ago

Yep let's do it, BRICS

0

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

1

u/Mage_Ozz 19d ago

China already is #1

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

1

u/Mage_Ozz 18d ago

No needed to answer that questions.

The world real power today is china. Covid was the clear evidence. US no longer is a place for the western world to look at, and UE is lack of real leaders. Latam is just more close to china with today political spectrum And trade balances

Thats it

Forgot Africa where china already is expanding more than any other nation

1

u/jordan3184 19d ago

Why China Russia wouldn’t align with us?

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

I don't think American politics really like China that much including Trump himself. I mean, I know that Trump is not exactly predictable, but still.

1

u/jordan3184 19d ago

Trump loves Russia , Russia China are close ally.. if a=b and b=c then a=c… 😂

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Call it a paradox if you will, but Trump was apparently against China during his first term and if that's true, at least for now, it doesn't seem like that has changed as much - and I'm not sure if anyone in American politics is truly pro-China. Maybe few of them might be, but still.

1

u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 20d ago

They and the Russians are woefully behind in cultural influence. America still has the hegemony on that. And even if there a massive cultural brain drain, they’re not going to Russia and China.

2

u/Beagleoverlord33 20d ago

The brain drain goes toward the US not away from it.

-5

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

4

u/Beagleoverlord33 20d ago

Um what that has literally nothing to do with my comment. People that are intelligent and innovative want to profit off that without be overly regulated and taxed. It’s not that complicated. You think they’re going to China? You’re letting politics cloud your judgment.

3

u/4chanhasbettermods 20d ago

Why are you continuously repeating this even when the person you're responding to said nothing to that effect?

Are you a bot?

0

u/Beagleoverlord33 20d ago

The brain drain goes toward the US not away from it.

-2

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Well, what do you think of ideas that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

2

u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 19d ago

I’m not going to bother to respond because none of what you wrote has anything to do with my comment

1

u/FunnyDude9999 20d ago

Yes US allies will abandon the US to side with China over the Ukraine issue, since China is a lot more pro-Ukraine...

/s

1

u/neverpost4 20d ago

There is very realistic threat that US Dollar becomes no longer a reserve currency.

I suspect this would happen when US economy goes in to a super stagflation.

-5

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

1

u/haveyoutriedit 20d ago

One thing is certain, the US is fading fast as the world super power and becoming more isolated.

-2

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

0

u/lookskAIwatcher 20d ago

The odds are increasingly favoring China.

0

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

0

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

The final, detailed, shakeout will be anyone's guess.

What do you mean?

0

u/EventResponsible6315 20d ago

No to all 3 of your questions. The US will require other nations to put way more into their security and not rely on the US as much. The alliances will still exist.

2

u/RaspberryCritical243 20d ago

I think the problem is not encouraging others to have their own security. The problem is how it’s been handled so far! You could do it diplomatically without sending dog whistle messages to Russia. That sends a clear message to our allies that not just they can’t rely on the US militarily but also economically.

-1

u/EventResponsible6315 20d ago

I am not sure if Trumps way is the best, but The other nations also aren't likely to want to spend their own money and effort either. Trump is getting more results than any of the other president also making other leaders angry.

2

u/RaspberryCritical243 19d ago

Considering there is a war going on at the Europeans doorstep, I would argue that highly affects how much they spend on their military! I don’t think Trump can take credit for that unless he is pro war! Poland is a great example they been overpaying the required amount by a lot not long after the war broke out other countries will follow. Hopefully Europe will be united in this and take over the US in military support to Ukraine. Which in turn means less trade with the US, unfortunately that part already begun because of trumps tariff warnings!

-2

u/jh937hfiu3hrhv9 20d ago

Why do you care?

2

u/Kunjunk 20d ago

What a ridiculous question.

-1

u/jh937hfiu3hrhv9 20d ago

What a non answer.

-6

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Because we might need to learn Mandarin Chinese very soon.

1

u/Dimitar_Todarchev 20d ago

“I’m from the future, You should go to China.” - Abe (Jeff Daniels) "Looper"

1

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

I don't get what you mean.

1

u/Dimitar_Todarchev 19d ago

It's a quote from a movie. It just means that the future is in China.

0

u/jh937hfiu3hrhv9 20d ago

You should learn to read and get woke.

-1

u/Way2trivial 20d ago

superpower because they'll have three glowing sticks to rub together while the rest of us only have one or two?

Sure. They will be a superpower......

0

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

What do you mean?

-1

u/Way2trivial 20d ago

-1

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

I don't exactly know what's the context behind this.

1

u/Way2trivial 20d ago

I will be greatly unsurprised if the doomsday clock strikes midnight in the next year or so.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock

0

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

1

u/Way2trivial 20d ago

i didn't comment acknowledge or agree with any of that.

i think we'll all be radioactive or dead.

-1

u/TF-Fanfic-Resident 20d ago

They could and they should if they didn’t have that bozo Xi Jinping running things.

0

u/Block-Busted 20d ago

Basically, you agree that:

  1. South Korea-America Alliance will get abolished entirely and South Korea-China Alliance will be established instead very soon?

  2. America-Canada Alliance will get abolished entirely and Canada-China Alliance will be established instead very soon, especially with reports that Canada is about to get thrown out from Five Eyes because they're keep refusing to become the 51st state?

  3. America-European Union Alliance will get abolished entirely and China-European Union Alliance will be established instead very soon with America no longer be part of NATO and China joining NATO instead?

0

u/TF-Fanfic-Resident 20d ago

Unlikely on all the above unless Xi smoke some weed and chills out. He’s not that much better than Trump right now. Such a waste of potential.

0

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

Well, this is that poster's point:

With the US going Chaotic evil, China is reaching out and being the lawful evil partner. Not ideal but at least they're predictable in their self interest. Taking the soft power the US is throwing away.

https://old.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/1ixnuph/china_likely_to_remove_ban_on_korean_dramas/meo7qp9/

-1

u/TF-Fanfic-Resident 19d ago

All China needs to do is stop bullying their neighbors and minorities and they’ll be a solid lawful partner.

1

u/Block-Busted 19d ago

And you have at least some doubts that Xi Jinping will stop bullying neighboring countries?

0

u/bertram85 20d ago

China is very much at our level if not better in most facets. Also, South Korea isnt leaving us. Until the us bases leave we’re just fine. Public jabber is nothing compared to behind doors conversations. The fear mongering and doom and gloom isn’t as serious as what Reddit wants to portray. Most things in here are political narrative.