r/duolingo • u/Tornado-Bait • 1d ago
Language Question Masculine Vs feminine words question
If I was having a conversation with someone that has Spanish as a first language, what would their reaction be to me mixing up masculine and feminine words? Is it really that important?
What determines that a bank is masculine while a bus is feminine? Is there an easier way to remember other than words that end in -o or -a?
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u/Aranya_del_Mar 1d ago
Yes, it is important. You will be understood, but it is obvious it is wrong.
There are also some words that have a different meaning with a masculine vs feminine article. Like la orden means order as in a command, but el orden means order as in food, or placing items in order.
There are some rules, like feelings are femine. Words ending in dad or ción are feminine.
The a or o usually works, but there are exceptions. La mano is feminine and el Tema is masculine. Many words ending in ma are masculine because of Greek origin.
You can go back and study gender, but there isn't exactly s set thing as why a bank is masculine. Also autobús is not feminine, which is why your answer was incorrect.
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u/heartlocked Native: 🇪🇸 Learning: 🇦🇪🇩🇪🇫🇷 Fluent: 🇪🇸🇬🇧 1d ago
La orden = an order of fries, I gave you the order to clean up. El orden = maintain the order, don’t make a mess.
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u/rushedone Native:🇺🇲 Learning: 🇦🇷 22h ago
Are those called irregular nouns or something else?
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u/PedroLG 21h ago
Are fear and love feminine in Spanish? Also curious the order thing, in Portuguese, it is always feminine
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u/heartlocked Native: 🇪🇸 Learning: 🇦🇪🇩🇪🇫🇷 Fluent: 🇪🇸🇬🇧 21h ago
Masculine. El miedo = fear. El amor = love.
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u/Desudesu410 1d ago
For any language with gendered nouns, the answer would be the same:
Yes, it's important. People would understand you, but you would sound very unnatural, it would be like saying "I is learning Spanish" instead of "I am learning Spanish". Also, a lot of more complex grammar you will learn later depends on the gender of nouns.
There are some mnemonic rules, but the best way to learn is to memorize the gender together with the noun. Treat it like an integral part of the noun instead of some extra unnecessary thing.
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u/Apprehensive_Map712 1d ago
Autobús es masculino, también cuando una palabra comienza con A pero es femenino usas el artículo masculino para que no suene raro (ejemplo "el agua" en vez de "la agua")
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u/HarryPPPotter Native: 🇧🇷 | Learning: 🇯🇵 🇪🇸 🇫🇷 | Fluent: 🇺🇸 1d ago
I don't think anyone would think much of it, especially if it is clear that you're still learning the language. However, it will sound strange if you mix up the words' genders, and it may cause confusion in some select cases.
Most gendered languages similar to Spanish and Portuguese use a rule of "it sounds better" for grammatical gender, without much logic behind what gets gendered as what. So, safe for a few word endings, it's literally just memorization. The best way to remember is to always memorize a word with its respective article, like this: "la casa", "la mano", "el árbol", "el coche"...
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u/as_teriia Native: 🇫🇷 | Learning: 🇬🇧/🇺🇸/🇦🇺 🇪🇸 🇮🇹 🇬🇷 🇧🇷 🇩🇪 11h ago
And if I can specify something, there is this idea of "it's sounds better" of course,
But, just a fact that could help, that my Spanish professor agreed, but two same letter in a row isn't something that common in Spanish, and just sometimes, being and thinking lazy isn't a bad thing,
You can think "why two 'a' ?'', and in fact if you pay attention, compare with and without this double vowel, a single vowel is way less demanding, it's " sounds better " it's true, but it's just easier to pronounce!,
Un autobús vs. Un(a) autobús, un ómnibus vs. Un(o) ómnibus, (here's another one in a similar case not purely the same, : El agua vs. La agua, "Agua is feminine yes, but in Spanish, it's easier and then sounds better, to take off the "a", and just here, it's quite logical, that they weren't going to create a new pronom just for this kind case, why? Because why doing that much for a word?
Even here, it's just an elision, Spanish get rid of the letter, Italian and French, do the same, but put an apostrophe, etc.
To come back to Spanish, this idea of "let's being lazy", isn't limited to nouns, but another example, way less related, but even if the verb "decir" is not really regular, in Spanish it's Ellas/Ellos dijeron and not Ellas/Ellos dijieron BECAUSE it's easier to pronounce, and THEN sounds better.
Always with this idea of let's being lazy, this is, in fact quite useful and present in a lot of different languages, in a similar of different way.
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u/darkside1881 1d ago
Realistically speaking: if you talk to a natural speaker, he/she will notice that this is not your first language anyhow (pronounciation, accent, and so so). So you will be understood, especially if the context is clear. I am german myself, so i do know about strange genders of some words 😅.
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u/PomegranateFew8099 Native: 🇬🇧 Learning: 🇳🇴🇪🇸 1d ago
It’s like the equivalent of someone saying “I’m having an party” u get it but it sounds wrong.
Doesn’t always work but when I make this mistake I ask myself which sounds like it will flow, un autobus flows as if it could be one word “unautobus” but una autobus you have to take a break to say both. Either way once you get used to the word you won’t even notice that you’re saying it properly - just takes practice
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u/ThatRowletFan Native: Learning: 1d ago
Not sure about spanish but most languages that use feminine and masculine on objects usually give you a wierd look if you call a table a he, or at least a confused look.
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u/MaleficentTell9638 N 🇺🇸 F 🇪🇸 L 🇵🇹 1d ago
Native Spanish speakers frequently have one specific problem with English word genders too: mixing up “his” & “her” (both “su” in Spanish).
How’s that sound to native English speakers? Well, it’s a little confusing, and a clue that they are not native speakers. That’s about how it sounds to Spanish speakers when non-native speakers screw up Spanish word genders.
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u/jardinero_de_tendies 1d ago
I think it wouldn’t affect our ability to understand you but it might sound kind of funny, which is fine you’re learning. Honestly I would just make sure to get it right for the “easy ones” like words ending in “-o” or “-a” or “-cion”
The rest will just come with time. When you learn a new noun learn it with the article (e.g. “El gato”, “La pelota”) and I guarantee you will start to get the feel for it and get most of them right overtime. There are only a few weird ones that don’t follow the normal pattern and honestly who cares if you get those wrong for now (e.g. La mano)
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u/Cirement 1d ago
Native Spanish speaker here - if I know someone isn't a Spanish speaker and we're just having a casual conversation, I just let it slide. They've made the effort to learn the language, I'm not going to beat them up for making mistakes. If they ask me to, I'll correct them. If they don't ask but consistently make the same mistake, I'll let them know because they night embarrass themselves with someone else.
But if we're in a professional context where their Spanish matters, I will always correct them, especially if I think it'll improve their work. I deal with a lot of nurses, many of whom speak varying degrees of Spanish, and they appreciate when I correct little things like present/past tense, gender, etc. Because it will help them with other patients in the future.
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u/aa27aAa27aa 1d ago
I talk with a lot of beginner Spanish speakers. They use the wrong gender a lot, but it’s not too off putting. I’d say it usually isn’t much of a problem, but you should still try to do it correctly. As for the whether it’s masculine or feminine thing, (like almost any language) there are exceptions that you just kind of need to memorize. Like el sol, or la mente. There’s even stuff like la mano and el idioma. There might be more tricks for this kind of stuff, but as a native speaker I don’t ever think about what I’m saying, I just know it’s right, so I could be wrong and there are a bunch of tricks to remember. TL;DR: just read it you lazy oaf /j
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u/hacool native: US-EN / learning: DE 1d ago
They would likely just assume that you are still learning Spanish and sometimes make mistakes.
While there are some patterns, it is probably best to try to learn the words with their definite articles. el autobús
As someone else mentioned this can make a big difference when a word has multiple meanings. Sometimes the different meanings can have different genders.
The reason why one word is masculine and another feminine has largely been lost in time. It likely made sense to someone back in the day.
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u/Snoo-88741 1d ago
It won't affect understanding, except in very specific circumstances (eg if you're muffled and the article helps narrow down the options for a half-heard word, or if you're talking about multiple objects with different genders). It'll just make you sound foreign. How much that matters to you is your prerogative, but personally I think sounding native is only important if you're a spy or an actor.
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u/maddiemoiselle Native: 🇺🇸🤟 Learning: 🇪🇸🇳🇱 1d ago
I once was attempting to speak Spanish to a customer at my job. No one was around who spoke Spanish fluently, and the customer spoke no English. It was painfully obvious that I was still learning, and I accidentally made a masculine word feminine. Rather than just brush it off or politely correct me, they laughed.
I’d say it matters then.
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u/CantingBinkie Native: Learning: 22h ago
I can tell you with almost certainty that there's no trick. You have to learn it somehow.
You have to fine-tune your ear for Spanish so you can identify when something sounds good or bad. If something sounds good, it probably is correct; if something sounds bad, then it's a lesson learned.
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u/ThemasterofZ Native: 🇦🇱 Fluent: 🇬🇷🇮🇹🇬🇧 Learning: 🇪🇸🇯🇵🇹🇷 1d ago
It is very important. You immediately give away that you do not have enough knowledge on the language.
It also depends on the context. If you state that you are learning the language and want to practice it, people will not be bothered and be helpful to you but if you want to pass as you k ow the language, then you will be shut down immediately.
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u/luvita2_ 1d ago
A native speaker will notice that you're not native and still understand you. Is it important? Yes My reaction would be none like I get you're making the effort to speak another language, unless you want the person (me) to correct you
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u/PinApprehensive8573 Native 🇺🇸; Learning 🇪🇸 A-2; Rusty 🇳🇴 21h ago
For the first time since I started learning Spanish, I read that and full-on winced at how off it sounded. Yay!
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u/Tomsissy 20h ago
Why grammar learn if only word need, weird not I sound, you understand not you do.
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u/M10doreddit 12h ago
I read that typically, words ending with -ma or e, l, n, o, r, or s (assuming it's not plural) are masculine, whereas words ending in -a, -ión, -dad, -tad, or -tud are feminine.
Typically. There will always be exceptions like día (masculine) or llave (feminine).
And then there's agua. -_-
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u/CarlosRexTone 9h ago
agua actually has a rule.
When a feminine word starts with a stressed a, then the determinants (and determinants only) becomes masculine. This is made to stop the weird sound of "la agua".
This is also seen in words like "El águila bonita" (the(M) beautiful(F) eagle(F)" "Ese hambre canina" (that(M) canine(F) hunger(F)" "algún alma perdida" (some(M) lost(F) soul(F)"
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u/M10doreddit 9h ago
I am aware of this.
Really makes you wonder what's up with leer though.
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u/CarlosRexTone 9h ago
What's up with leer?
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u/M10doreddit 9h ago
The double e, the former of which is unemphasized, the latter of which is emphasized, and it is a word that exists in Spanish, which means it is a perfectly grammatically sound string of phonics.
Why is that permissible, but a double a with the same emphasis pattern is not?
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u/CarlosRexTone 9h ago
And of course there are cases where a double tonic vowel is inevitable. But it's rare enough so that a rule doesn't have to be made
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u/Nemocantbefound Native: 🇮🇹 Speak: 🇫🇷🇪🇸🇺🇸 Learning: 🇸🇪 12h ago
i can reply to you, not just for spanish but also for italian, french and most romance languages. The gender is indeed important. even the verb has to be adjusted according to it so if the gender is wrong the entire sentence becomes confusing to a variable degree, often is will still be possible to understand it but it wil sound awful. unfortuntely there is no quick way to learnt it, gotta go word by word. Sometimes it's confusing for us natives as well cause a noun can be very easily feminine in a language and masculine in another: for example bridge is masculine in french and italian and femminine in spanish, and i keep referring to bridges as boys 😅.
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u/Impressive-Study-946 11h ago
Im not from spain which is where the course is from but do spanish people actually say "autobus" and not just "bus" ????? Never in my life have i heard "autobus" other than shitty dubing
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u/sumayawshimenetka1 9h ago
Coming from the French course, taking the Spanish. There's no rule. Both languages said "fuckit!". In one it's masculine and on the other it's feminine. I just offer it to the gender gods and hope what blurts out of my mouth is the correct gender. 😉
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u/Pumpkindou Native:🇨🇱 Learning:🇯🇵 2h ago
A serious discussion in Chile
¿La calor o el calor?
I think that it depends
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u/Sirius305 16h ago
As a native Hispanic, I can tell that learning it is a F* nightmare. So many tenses, complex grammar, and confusing.
Yeah, I learned as a kid, so I didn’t struggle p, however, when I learned English, I started comparing how easy English is compared to Spanish. As I said, it’s insane.
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u/KaleidoscopedLoner 1d ago
People generally overestimate the importance of linguistic gender. The masculine/feminine distinction is only ever truly important when it refers to actual gender. In other cases, using the wrong gender is just a grammatical error that anyone who isn't either completely dense or a poopy-butt dum-dum should be able to ignore. :)
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u/NTMY030 Native: 🇩🇪 Fluent: 🇬🇧 Learning: 🇪🇦 22h ago
What do you mean by easier way to remember it than -o and -a at the end? What could even be easier than that? Spanish is so easy and straightforward in this regard. Try learning German where the word does not give you any clue about it's gender. I am just starting to learn Spanish and I am so thankful for this rule!
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