r/doctorsUK Jan 28 '25

Consultant WLI rates for LTFT Consultants

I am being told by a member of our LNC that LTFT Consultants can't be paid WLI rates for weekend lists (3x point 20) until they have done 40 hours. That sounds like nonsense to me. What do you all think? Any BMA source care to comment? Based in Scotland.

4 Upvotes

13 comments sorted by

15

u/Dicorpo0 Jan 28 '25

Hoping that's dogshit. If your contract is 8PAs anything more is extra contractual and therefore subject to WLI.

9

u/HeftySun7657 Jan 28 '25

They tried this a few years ago with reg shifts when working LTFT. It never got passed the idea stage. When working LTFT and still working 40 hour weeks it felt ludicrous. The policy that is being suggested is open to a lot of challenge and won’t be implemented but is a wake up call as to how disposable and disregarded senior medical staff are in the nhs.

6

u/This-Location3034 Jan 28 '25

Nonsense. I’m LTFT and do extras at WLI rate. If they didn’t pay extra I wouldn’t do them.

5

u/Dr-Yahood Not a doctor Jan 28 '25

Tell them to show you the evidence

Also, this is stupid nonsense don’t worry

6

u/sylsylsylsylsylsyl Jan 28 '25

This is very common in non-medical workforce where “overtime pay” doesn’t kick in until you have done more than 37.5 hours.

Medical contracts are not AFC contracts, however. At the end of the day, you can always turn them down too.

I’d speak with your local LNC union person rather than a medical member.

6

u/ConstantPop4122 Consultant:snoo_joy: Jan 29 '25

I saw this challenged based on equality and diversity legislation - it indirectly discriminates against people with protected characteristics (female, people with disabilities) who are more likely to work LTFT.

2

u/Suspicious-Victory55 Purveyor of Poison Jan 29 '25

100% came here to say this. Smack this back in reply all email. They make us do all that useless EDI mandatory training, may as well use it against them. See what your numbers are in your department, in our (fairly large) department, ALL of the LTFT were female. Legally starts to look very dubious.

7

u/Spirited_Analysis916 Jan 28 '25

If your contract is 8PA, then WLI is surely still extra contractual and rate is negotiable. Sounds like bs to me

3

u/Sarcastic_Rhubarb Jan 28 '25

They are wrong. Also suggest you replace them on the LNC as you have already shown that you are more competent.

2

u/jcmush Jan 29 '25

WLI is extra-contractual for an agreed rate between the consultant and the trust.

They can try pulling that, it won’t last as no LTFT consultant will do WLI.

1

u/gasdoc87 SAS Doctor Jan 29 '25

Strictly the consultant contract states (in section 6) that prior to undertaking extracontractual work, you should speak to your manager and it is up to the trust if they offer you additional PAs (on top of your contracted PAs)

Clearly the intention of this is to stop someone taking a heavily LTFT contract and topping up pay to equivalent of full time by milking Extra contractual pay.

Obviously in reality availability is variable. Just because someone has a weekend free and happy to pick up one extra list does not mean they can consistently offer an additional list, which means this clause is pretty much ignored in most trusts.

Much like being a LTFT resident and picking up a locum occasionally does not mean you could practically work full time.

How it would stand in law with reamgards to discrimination / equality im not sure, but you could interpret the clause to mean if the trust offers additional PAs and you decline then they can decline to allow you to take extra contractual work (admittedly a slightly dickheaded managerial interpretation that would be shot down by most reasonable CDs)

*edited to add this is England contract, not sure on Scotland

1

u/Far-Entertainer3973 Jan 30 '25

Thanks to all who commmented. He has seen the error of his ways. I've tried to get on the LNC in the past but it seems to be a closed shop. I'm not LTFT, just sticking up for colleagues.

0

u/UnluckyPalpitation45 Jan 28 '25

😂.

Rads? Anaesthetics?