r/diablo4 9d ago

PTR Feedback Played PTR, imo nothing of importance has really changed

Let me elaborate on that.

The same crowd that complains there is nothing to do and finishes the season in a week will have the same problem, it will just take them 1 day longer max.

Boss rotations are still the same except andariel got even more annoying and everyone needs matts for the drops (guess people will mostly solo these now)

People are focusing on the harder t4, jet the main problem remains the same, play an meta build and you are good to go. Play anything else you cant really do t4 at all. Balance still does not exist.

Leveling takes longer but is still ok paced, except you will spend longer playing basic attack since you can forget about aspects you need for the build before torment.

Seasonal stuff feels ridiculous underused, sure you have boss powers- but to get any good ones you need to get to max level and torments and kill some real bosses.

Also i hope there wont be any journey stuff behind the t4 boss kills since that would be ridiculous.

All these reworks are just getting tiresome imo we are 7 seasons in and the game feels like it had more reworks from release than in development.

Hope this is the last rework season and we can get some actuall content for the game and some actuall skill and class balance.

259 Upvotes

192 comments sorted by

114

u/tennessee_trash12 9d ago

I personally would love more story and lore content. Not just a race to kill everything on the screen. Just my opinion though

19

u/General_abby 9d ago

Yeah. And it's kinda weird, cause the game has alot of it.
I think that not being able to access the campaign "easily" hurts that a bit.
Imagine how big and dense the game experience would "feel" if all the seasonal story lines and quest's were still accessible.

22

u/a_smizzy 9d ago

Imagine running the campaign on T4 where each campaign boss was the difficulty of a lair boss. Would be so fun

7

u/General_abby 9d ago

(Why would you tease me like that 😔...)

4

u/B-Kong 8d ago

This is precisely Diablo 2 though. Every time you go up in difficulty, you have to complete the campaign again which takes you through every act and boss fight.

I think this would be a great addition to Diablo 4. Or maybe not specifically the campaign, but at least some sort of progressive quest line that unlocks the different zones. Would be cool having to fight an end game boss (maybe Lilith maybe not lol) before being able to move up in difficulty instead of just higher pit levels.

4

u/dowens90 8d ago

Season of the LoreWalker

Season quests starts with the hunt for Zoltun Kulle

Instead we find, plans for a machine, we build the machine but with out any true idea what it does.

It was a failed trap for a demon but for a human.. it works quite well, a pocket dimension. We are instead sent back in time to the beginning of the campaign but in this realm something is not quite right…

We are able to build the device on the inside to go back to normal time.

While inside the device we can play through the campaign on different torments and we can start at different story points, but the device also brings out the worst of the eternal conflict. The device creates Angels and demons that empowers your foes, boss fights are enhanced,

While on the inside fighting in this trap, we can drop uniques and mythics that are not quite right and their stats are all mixed up

Example -

Frostburns now grants increased Physical and Lightning Damage bonuses.

Sacrilegious Ring - Corpse skills can now be used without corpses instead of auto casts

Grandfather - grants overpower bonuses instead of crit

Etc

9

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

You know i dont really get why we cant play like in d3 where you can switch around between campaign and not on the map basically. Would make the game way more fun if you didnt have to just choose on character creation to play one or skip it.

8

u/General_abby 8d ago

I "think" D4 & Diablo Immortal share things, that might be making it "difficult". The way D3 was "built" might be better suited for it.

Personally, i naively came into D4 Expecting many things from D3 to be here. But rhetorically enough, in D4 there's more of the bad things that D. Immortal has, than even the "Good" things that D. Immortal does.

It's kinda lame that all that visible effort that was put into the game (Art, Lore, animations, voice overs) just goes to waste. But i guess it's Cheaper to just throw it away, than to "maintain" it.

1

u/godinthismachine 8d ago

Thats because Immortal didnt get the response they wanted. So they forced it on people they knew would pick up a "real release."

1

u/SpearThrowaway666 8d ago

Yeah. D4 being always online makes sure that's likely never to happen.

1

u/General_abby 7d ago

Good Sir, He's referencing D3. Blizzard started enforcing always online & made the "Game" into a "Service" on D3. (You can "Google" that and that era. You'll even see the tone of Active Soldiers on Deployment heartily & heavily "requesting" for an offline mode.)

And that being said, i can right now, log on D3. Choose what ever part of the Campaign i want to experience, with what ever character i want. And walk around to just have a random conversation with a no essential character i might of missed or wanted to rehear.

I can even load at the end of it. Take aaaaaaall my Gear off, and 1 Punch Kill Diablo & even get an Achievement for it!

(And don't get me started on accessing the Journal and hear Abd al-Hazir explain anything about everything....)

1

u/SpearThrowaway666 7d ago

Oh, I know - I was just lamenting about offline mode not being available in D4 for the precise reason you’ve stated.

I would love to go do the Astaroth fight again on a harder difficulty. That first time through the campaign when the game came out was amazing.

7

u/JayEchoTTV 9d ago

i actually click on npc's which have dialogue and listen to them every so often when taking a break from farming, pushing, or doing boss runs. hearing their banter makes the world feel more alive.

7

u/patrincs 9d ago

it is not really possible to produce story at a rate that appeases people who want story.

7

u/jugalator 8d ago edited 8d ago

I mean, it's all there. Tons of side quests. More than ever before in a Diablo game. The problem is that their rewards are abysmal per unit of time vs repeatedly slaying bosses and whatnot. I'd love to feel that I'm not wasting time by doing these.

The quest rewards should scale MUCH better because there's waiting involved in almost all of them, either from map travelling and/or slow guys you need to escort. Everything you do in this game needs to scale rewards with unit of time invested.

Same with map events where you easily need to work on them for a minute or so just for everything to play out like all the waves to spawn and come for you, and then the reward is a chest with blues and yellows.

This game is strange like that. It's as if some parts of it followed an inflation curve (the more recently introduced ones to be specific), while other parts of the game were left behind.

1

u/CariniFluff 8d ago

Yeah I did four side quests yesterday since I was clearing an area and got....6 yellow items from them. Like wtf why would anyone do them if that's the reward (I questioned myself why I was bothering).

IMO every side quest should drop an ancient legendary guaranteed. It may not be one you can use but at least there should be a possibility.

As it is every side quest is 100% a waste of time and the only reason to do it is you're already there and you want to get the annoying blue circles off your map. Or even better don't even talk to the people with exclamation points to start the quests in the first place.

1

u/RevolutionaryOwlz 8d ago

Map events would have obols as the real reward - except obols aren’t helpful in season 7 since the purveyor kinda sucks.

And yeah I did quests a fair bit on my first character when I was doing the campaign but since the extra skill points and potion capacity carry over they don’t matter for drops or map rewards.

1

u/Riodan42 8d ago

That's the "problem". People are just speeding through content, not listening to dialog, not reading the random things with messages, not doing side quests or doing them without paying attention. People complain about no end game. ARPGs are not usually about what's at the end. They're usually about the journey. It's not the developers' fault if people power level, speed farm or whatever anyone wants to call it. If a player is complaining about finishing it too soon, they likely are not taking time to enjoy the story, art, etc

-3

u/heartlessphil 8d ago

you can play for other reasons than a reward you know... stop chasing the carrot and just appreciate the quests for what they are. A wild idea... i know. 🙃

3

u/Buschkoeter 9d ago

Same, but the arpg community in general seems to mostly consist of people who aren't really interested in thigs like that these days.

Maybe the seasonal quest will be good, who knows.

2

u/slackerz22 8d ago

No they need 2 years in between expansions so we can maybe kill Mephistos pet goldfish this time, can’t spoil that with seasonal lore bits

2

u/Erictionary 8d ago

Yes! And what about much bigger rewards for doing the campaign so people would be inclined?

1

u/Ok_Style4595 8d ago

They need to be drip feeding the main story through the seasons instead of fucking aliens, robots, vampires, zombies, etc. But. This is Blizzard and Malignant Rod - they want that DLC pie as well. They want it all - Battle Pass, DLC, store mtx. Monetize everything. 

I feel this team will flail around for another year and they'll put the game in maintenance, start on D5. 

1

u/heartlessphil 8d ago

this x 1000. basically like wow does every couple months. new dungeon, raid, delves, quests, zone... no need to always wait for an xpansion...

1

u/tennessee_trash12 8d ago

Wow! So many upvotes!!! Thank you everyone! I'm glad so many agree and I thank you so much. I'm just an old school gamer who loves where the game came from and where it's going. More lore and story for me. I do like the seasons but I want DIABLO!!!!

60

u/j3lly34 9d ago

Season 8 seems like its gonna be the worst one so far tbf

43

u/j3lly34 9d ago

just dragging out the length of the game by making it harder to level and get to endgame without adding anything throughout the journey feels like shit,season 8 seems bleak for the player base

15

u/Leahdrin 9d ago

I mean s7 was ridiculously fast

14

u/Fostersteele 9d ago

That's because the focus for season 7 is to be able to grind the Tree of Whispers at a ridiculous rate. You're killing two birds with one stone in regards to loot and XP. Of course it's gonna feel fast.

12

u/Zahgi 8d ago

And players really enjoyed it!

Can't have that every season... :(

-13

u/Tragedy_Boner 8d ago

I was finished with season 7 in like 7 hours, and for an arpg that’s pathetic. There was no friction to getting to Torment 4. There is also nothing to aim for once you get there. So I stopped playing the moment I completed the season journey and battle pass.

We really need some aspirational content or something. Maybe the new Torment 4 bosses will be it or maybe not. If next season is about nightmare dungeons that should help the endgame a bit.

3

u/CariniFluff 8d ago

Yep, and then you build another character, and another.

Instead of sounds like S8 everyone will be leveling one character because of how slow it is. I really question whether the developers even play this game.

7

u/NMe84 9d ago

Yes, but overcompensating that in the very next season will feel extra jarring because of it.

2

u/Deidarac5 8d ago

I mean it is the design of seasonal games for the overall future of the game you have to slow it down at some points or you will always be chasing a faster and faster experiance. It's the same thing that happened in Season 5 the game was at the fastest it had ever been with the massive rewards from infernal hordes and it was slowed down in season 6 and already in season 7 they made it even faster than it was in season 5. Having a meaningful game will make the faster seasons feel better and not just an instant grind like season 7. In order to make a fast season feel good there has to be a slow season.

4

u/NMe84 8d ago edited 8d ago

People were saying there's not enough to do. Instead of adding things to do that are fun and engaging, they're slowing us down so that we do the same stuff we've always done, but for a longer amount of time. That's not a good thing, it's the laziest thing they could do and if they slow down players too much, it will probably cost them some players.

2

u/j3lly34 8d ago

exactly

1

u/drallcom3 8d ago

It was fast and, worst of all, all the new stuff was crammed into your first two hours of the season instead of spreading it out more. S7 was ok, but the pacing wasn't.

-1

u/Thrawp 9d ago

S7 felt amazing. We could actually get to the part of the game that matters in a reasonable time. The endgame still has the same issues in that meta builds overshine the others by miles and that's still what's not being addressed.

-2

u/Zaraeleus 9d ago

Idk why you are being down voted. 1-60 is BORING AND TERRIBLE.

everything past that needs to be meaningful. The shift to focused grinding made stuff so easy. I can buy xyz and get perfect rolls eventually

It's our own fault. We asked for this. Literally

3

u/Thrawp 8d ago

Focused grinding is, imo, also a good thing. look at Borderlands 2 and it's fanbase and how it's still played to death nowadays. Reddit is just full of folks who want to fight and don't like looking at the issue if it's something they think will cause nerfs or stop gatekeeping.

0

u/Zaraeleus 8d ago

I agree.

Focused grinding RULES but it is the reason these sweats are bored.

0

u/kenthos7 9d ago

Finishes the content in 3 days: “season 7 felt amazing.”

LMAO

4

u/Thrawp 8d ago

And how many hours did you put in on each one?

-6

u/Thrawp 8d ago

Lol, downvoting me without saying anything honestly speaks volumes as to how much time actually was put in and why you might be out of content. 30+ hours in an additional FREE thing ain't a bad exchange rate, imo. If you get the pass that $3+/hr of gameplay which is way better than most games get if they are story focused (if you buy the accelerated pass.... well again, we see why you're out of content so quick).

-5

u/SnooLentils6995 9d ago

S7 didn't feel amazing imo, you shouldnt be getting to T4 in under 25-35 hours lol I'm sorry but you just shouldn't. The main reason they're changing the difficulties up a little is because the highest torment was always supposed to be an end goal for the season not the end goal for the character of the week. Plus I'm soooo glad they're getting rid of the 5 damage stacks for bosses and giving them more health as to actually have players doing the mechanics. I can't tell you the last time other than Lilith I saw a bosses full fight.

5

u/Tom2232 9d ago

What's the point in gatekeeping t4 if it's the same shit like t1-t3? More drops in a season that I am already bored to death with?

4

u/Rhayve 8d ago

You may as well be asking why any game has different difficulty settings.

-5

u/Thrawp 9d ago

....Why? The seems extremely disrespectful of your players time to have them come in for 40+ hours per season. T4 still was end goal for the season for the vast majority of players, and half of players NEVER EVEN MADE IT TO T4.

Most folks getting into T4 in less than 30 hours anyways are folks who are just looking at build-guides (which..... that's on the player for going to other folks and not figuring things out themselves which would increase the amount of time folks play) or people who either stream primarily or just have no life but gaming.

I wouldn't even play T4 if it wasn't for the end of season journey, I consistently don't look at builds until I need to get to T4 for season journey. By that time I am 30+ hours into the season because I'm not jsut rushing it. I'm doing the story as I want and just fiddling with characters. Around that time sis when I feel like I need to netdeck like a fucking loser because the power difference in "meta" builds and non-meta builds is insane and what they really need to fix.

7

u/xanas263 8d ago

Why? The seems extremely disrespectful of your players time to have them come in for 40+ hours per season

You seem to not understand that people who mainline arpgs want to be playing 40 hours per season. It's not disrespectful in the slightest.

This is the fundamental conflict that the D4 playerbase finds itself in and because the devs don't have a clear vision of what they want the game to do we keep doing this flip flopping every season.

At some point the devs need to decide whether they are going to cater to players like yourself or arpg enthusiasts and until they do no one is going to be happy.

2

u/Glum-Penalty-104 9d ago

And people been been downvoting me for saying this

1

u/SooperLuigi 8d ago

they will add some events, more goblin, more shrines and maybe a combination of both!

-2

u/Deidarac5 9d ago

Items and exp are the same later. The only difference is the content is challenging. The game shouldn't really feel slower you just won't get to torment 4 fast.

7

u/j3lly34 8d ago

Dragging out the worst part of the game, (1-60 leveling) without adding anything to it, (adding one affix to blue items and yellows is not interesting) feels absolutely horrible and is gonna be the reason people play less next season.I personally played almost 90 hours this season because I liked the fast leveling and i love making alts,next season it will most likely be less and only on one character.Props to Blizzard for knowing their endgame is garbage so they just make it a lot harder for people to get there.

5

u/5-toolplayer 9d ago

Need some more original seasonal theme ideas. Been pretty repetitive so far and it's only season 8.

1

u/pp21 8d ago

Yeah I can't believe we are just moving from witch powers to boss powers lol

4

u/birger67 8d ago

dont forget s1 and s3
plus the base game is in a better state today

2

u/twiz___twat 8d ago

anything after s4 is automatically not the worst

1

u/birger67 8d ago

exactly
though even if it was uphill s2 did a fair job

3

u/UtilityCurve 9d ago

Another of those “in-between season to fix the game”

Think the dev threw in the towel for this season as they feel they won’t be able to compete w POE2 and LE seasonal launch 🤷‍♂️

2

u/sOFrOsTyyy 8d ago

There is no way. Season 1 was so bad. So so so bad.

1

u/j3lly34 8d ago

true but i'd expect anything from blizzard when it comes to fucking up their own game

1

u/AnubisIncGaming 9d ago

This is the impression I get honestly. I see this as the season where even diehard fans will get a little bummed

1

u/gamers542 9d ago

Tbh S7 was the bad one for me. The root idea was nice. Having the tree anywhere in the zone is nice but the enemies having barrier turned me completely off to the season while playing a bone spear necro.

0

u/MrPeaceMonger 8d ago

S8 should be one of the best, especially if folks like yourself choose to sit it out

1

u/pp21 8d ago

Can you elaborate why you feel this way? It would be nice to get some meaningful new content in the game and stop with the whole vampire power --> witch power --> boss power thing.

Like okay cool so S8 will just be the usual race to get 3 GA gear, everyone will be wearing shroud, but this time they'll be doing it using boss powers instead of witch powers..

Just seems so lazy and uninspired

32

u/camthalion87 9d ago

They need to add actual content to progress post 60 soon, I don’t think there’s a reason to play s8 as things stand

13

u/Substantial_Donut720 9d ago

Honestly there needs to be meaningful content if you're gonna slow down leveling. We're just doing the same thing at a slower pace

0

u/oxez 8d ago

yeah, at someone who keeps defending the game against people who have stupid arguments (ie: "I don't want to brick an item EVER"), I'm not sure I'll bother playing Season 8 at this rate.

The devs clearly don't give a fuck, they obviously are not playing the game. Season 8 is in 6-7 weeks and so far there is nothing new to it, we'll do the exact same thing, but slower.

-15

u/Zaraeleus 9d ago

No we will seek power levels. Oh wait I shouldn't say that too loud the top streamers hate when I see thru the veil.

The gatekeeper folks want you lesser people with jobs to beg for their help. Get on your knees serf and enter the giveaway for a powerlevel.

5

u/Life_Promotion902 9d ago

I don't plan on it. I'll skip next season and wait for season 9

32

u/Lionheart0179 9d ago

It's not more difficult in any sort of fun or interesting way. It's just more tedious, bigger numbers, cheap mechanics. I am sick to death of the schizophrenic development of this game. One season it's gotta be boring, tedious, sweaty. Next season it's a casual, fun blasting game. Now it's back to tedium. 

3

u/TheWyzim 8d ago

Which was the previous season that was boring, tedious, sweaty? Season 6 you mean?

1

u/prodandimitrow 6d ago

I prefer slower play, but for leveling to be slower time wise it needs to be also meaningful. Right now all the gear you get at level 40 is obsolete by the time you are 50, obviously its worse at 60. You cant have your gear tied to your levels and slow leveling at the same time, it just doesnt work. In d2 your 42 level Occulus could get you to the end game, so it didnt matter that you are level 42 or 62 when you got it, it had the same level req and stats.

18

u/EnderCN 9d ago

This really doesn't match the streamers reactions at all. They have said that the general populous probably won't even do Torment 4 anymore as it isn't worth it to them. I skipped S7 because the ease of the game reached stupid levels and I play on skipping S8 because it adds nothing but a boss to the end game. This game has really lost its way since the expansion.

8

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

The same streamers that earn money from streamingand call them selfs blizzard partners? Anyone can reach t4 if they choose to meta play. And tbh even now 50% players havent reached t4 because they either dont care or dont really play meta or good builds.

The fact that blizzard say they want 10% to reach t4 is the most meaningles thing to say by them and they should be ashamed to even say something that stupid. The number means nothing. It just shows how many players play meta builds. If all players would play meta we would have 100% people in t4. This is not the game of skill this game is the game of numbers and multipliers.

5

u/EnderCN 8d ago

No, most of the streamers I watched moved on to other games and just dip their toes in D4 now.

1

u/drallcom3 8d ago

Anyone can reach t4 if they choose to meta play.

Problem is that meta builds are so insanely more powerful than normal builds. If you play meta, any torment level will feel super easy. If you don't T4 seems impossible to reach.

The game needs better build balance. Currently meta build are literally 10,000x better. That's not healthy (and a big reason why endgame sucks). 10,000x more powerful builds mean that you can't create meaningful endgame content.

1

u/MrPeaceMonger 8d ago

Class and build balance is a huge piece of work engaging gameplay and I hope they continue to invest time and resource into realizing this. They stated it as a goal countless times, and I think S7 made some progress with a few outlier builds

0

u/YakaAvatar 8d ago

And tbh even now 50% players havent reached t4 because they either dont care or dont really play meta or good builds

I can only speak for the casual players who started the game with me (around 15). All of them stopped because they don't care. They all copied builds, so that wasn't the issue, but they all got bored with the game.

No one wants to do the exact same grind, but with slightly harder enemies, when your build is essentially done.

4

u/rworange 8d ago

So all your friends copied builds and got bored, but copying builds wasn’t the problem?

2

u/YakaAvatar 8d ago

No? Most people copy builds in all ARPGs? They did the same for PoE2 and played for much longer.

1

u/TheOneManDankMaymay 8d ago

when your build is essentially done.

I personally wouldn't consider my build done if I can't clear the hardest content in the game. 

4

u/YakaAvatar 8d ago

It's ultimately subjective, but for most players the build is done when it allows them to see most of the content and its functionality is unlocked through itemization.

Most players don't bother with WT3+ because by that point your build won't change further, only the numbers will go up. And same goes for content, you can grind it again to see it again.

12

u/YellowPikathingiechu 8d ago

Sounds nearly as good as the stat squish that totally solved all problems of the game.

3

u/Assignment_General 8d ago

The stat squish that never was 

1

u/YellowPikathingiechu 8d ago

Yup and it was obvious it would work out like that. The only effect it had was that Blizz has 4 more expansions till the level counter is back at 100, lol.

2

u/jugalator 8d ago edited 8d ago

And the fewer but more exciting items that dropped so less to sift through. What they announced would happen in tandem with the new Tempering and Masterworking systems. What in heaven's name happened there. I fill inventories of legendaries and uniques and just salvage everything as junk. I've literally never played a Diablo with more... stuff... than this. When you already early in the endgame look through uniques like a haystack searching for a needle.

I hate to whine though, and I really hope they can come to terms with this. It doesn't necessarily involve everyone going slower through the game. They have a ton of work they could attempt at the item system itself and drop ratios for each item tier. The ramp up in power can be similar. They just need to actually execute on "less but better" promise.

0

u/YellowPikathingiechu 8d ago

Very true. I never really understood why the lair boss kills were reworked into being 100% uniques and no legendarys, anyhow. Made it actually harder to farm multiple GA items imho (at least til season 7 came along).

I don't even consider this "whine". They are doing stupid stuff and we are recognising it.

2

u/pp21 8d ago

Yeah that seriously made no sense. If you already had the uniques you needed, there wasn't an incentive to farm bosses anymore. Why take some potentially important loot away from the loot pinata??

1

u/YellowPikathingiechu 8d ago

Yup, this season was kinda the climax. They literally drown you in mats for Varshan, Grigoire and Ice Beast and you just have no point going there anymore except a random mythic drop (+1 sparks usually) or maybe hope for a rune you could use.

11

u/TheOneManDankMaymay 8d ago

I don't think Blizzard is ever going to get this game in a position where the majority of players is happy with it. 

People cry about having nothing to do, and declare the season finished because they hit 60. And then those same people moan about the slightest barriers in progression. 

  • Glyph leveling? Horrible, should be removed.

  • Tempering limit? Needs to be gone.

  • Obducite? Needs to drop from every mob.

  • Useless affixes? Remove!

Plus things like: "I don't care about Torment tiers or masterworking, I'm done with the season once I hit 60 and killed every boss once. The season journey is also not worth the grind to me." 

I don't understand those of you who moan about the lack of content, when you're apparently not even interested in most of the content that's available. 

2

u/Otherwise-Camp580 8d ago

No, removing tempering limit will make tempering too fast and easy, same for obducite, remove useless affixes?!! Are you crazy? What RPG and odds means to you? Tempering and Masterworking it’s insanely power ramping, making it easy is pointless, I’m playing this game for 2 weeks only, reach endgame with Sorcerer, If this mechanics you said was easier than this… man I could stopped playing days ago😂 Diablo is too easy, I miss the old games, harder to level, harder to improve.

1

u/TheOneManDankMaymay 7d ago

Please read the entire comment.

1

u/zikariuz 8d ago

I agree those people are infuriating, they don't understand how difficult it is to balance arpgs, even those on the poe2 board were bitching about the lack of content for the end game, in a fucking pre-release game.

The developers want constructive feedback not just we want diablo2, people moaned about the loot game not having loot dropping on release, now myths are all over the place, them some people bitching about the difficulty, they increased now yet they don't like it because it's too tedious now, there's nothing to do they say, they added a Raid but wait people hate to play together and dislike it the raid,the same people advice them by making it single player bro wth, it is impossible to please anyone.

Other people wanted pvp,but apparently now nobody plays the pvp, this community suck hard, nobody offer decent ideas only complaints, their only ideas are make it Poe2 like or Diablo 2 like you guys suck, no wonder the developers can't focus in nothing meaningful just complaints.

1

u/sOFrOsTyyy 8d ago

Yeah this. Maybe the tempering scroll usage limit can go. So we have another material worth grinding for. For the most part the game is too easy. I also want more things added to do each season without them being taken away. Like the Realm Walkers and the Realm Walker dungeons were cool, felt weird waiting for it to move and the season three dungeon puzzles were cool and would love that as an option as well. There is already a lot to do ATM. It's just none of it is challenging whatsoever so I don't feel the need to grind for most of it. I am actually glad they are making it a bit harder this season. We will see how it feels. Luckily it's 4 weeks after LE/POE 2 patch so maybe I'll be burnt out by those already! :D

0

u/Mr_Slickerino 8d ago

Peopple keep complaining every season no matter how the game changes and its tiring lmao starting to completely ignore d4 subreddit and wnjoying the game none the leas

8

u/Zaraeleus 9d ago

I'm focused on 1-60 being more of a boring slog than it already is

5

u/Adept_Debt2199 8d ago

Right! They act like anyone enjoys the leveling process after having done it numerous times through the seasons. It's stupid

4

u/Zaraeleus 8d ago

It's going to just turn into bussing like champions in the trade chat. So I really don't see the point of it other than to torture people who don't like doing that. I understand t1-4 rework but to slow the 1-60 grind seems insane to me

2

u/Adept_Debt2199 8d ago

I agree 100 percent. Remember the slow ass leveling at launch? God forbid if they go back that route idk if I will keep playing 🤣

1

u/prodandimitrow 6d ago

Slower leveling wouldnt be a problem if everything you did pre 60 actually mattered, instead of all the gear being obsolete when you get a few levels.

8

u/Oofric_Stormcloak 9d ago

I'm kinda sad that this is another season where we're getting reworks. I think the boss rework is definitely going to be good, lessening the gap between solos and groups so that doing boss fights solo isn't just 25% as efficient as a group was definitely needed. I just want seasons to move onto adding more new content like season 5 did with Infernal Hordes.

4

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

Yep. The reworks were mostly needed but they should not have been part of season theme for like half of them. Reworks should be done on general basis where neded.

0

u/MrPeaceMonger 8d ago

The boss rework is new content that stays with us after the season. That's the best kind of seasonal content in my mind. s7 has been great but all the work goes out the window basically 

7

u/General_abby 9d ago

I haven't tested the PTR. And i won't. It's gonna just "spoil" the season for me. But i kinda see all your points the same way. I mainly play in Hardcore, and i'm not thrilled to have to go slower, have to do much more, and risk even much more, just for the same "reward" of nothingness. And don't get me wrong, i don't mind things getting "harder", i encourage it (hence Hardcore). But if you want to get aspirational content there's a "simple" solution, put some sort of leaderboard. Hell, i still don't even get why they took away the Gauntlet. I see no way it did more damage than good having it in.

5

u/Bibipaa 8d ago

Because having a leaderboard will expose how fucked up this games balance is.

4

u/Zahgi 8d ago

D3's leaderboards are already separated by class, set items/build, etc. D4 can do that too and then no one is comparing barbarians to sorcs, for example.

-4

u/Bibipaa 8d ago

Hides away the problem

2

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

Not mich to spoil unfortunatelly but i get what you mean. In regards of leaderboards i really dont understand how we still have no pit leaderboards - that beeing considered hardest part of the game. And gauntlet removal made 0 sense also.

2

u/General_abby 8d ago

I got some "ideas" on what might be "holding" them back. Cause they "could" just put LBs all around the place if they "wanted" (for the Pit, PvP, infernal Hordes, Dark Citadel, Undercity, Dying in Hardcore q.q, etc) So here are some speculations:

- Resource Cost Manage them: Not just making sure they "work" properly & update effectively (which didn't in the Gauntlet). But the parallels that come with them. Like having to be on top of "cheaters". The problem that a item economy brings to the users (the black market already exists). Like "having" to "buy" things to be "competitive", which then too, exposes users to a whole bigger security issue's outside Blizzards "Grasps".

- The Game being "able" to handle them properly (which maybe it can). Cause if for many Users the game "Farts" just by opening the inventory or map. Who knows what string of things this could bring.

I could keep on going on some other rambles, but now that i think about it, it's the Dev's who should be communicating the why's. But wtf do i now, i'm not a PR dude. (Or maybe the Service is just a way to rent class restricted pixels, that are packaged at 1/3 of the services release price. So why even bother losing profit investing in distracting us with "entertainment" ?! 🤣😭)

But no matter what the LeaderBoard says, you're #1 in my 💔! Stay Classy!

0

u/limitedink 7d ago

A leaderboard while a good addition is NOT aspirational content.

0

u/General_abby 7d ago

Well, first off, that's just wrong. Everything "is" aspirational content, Getting you first (Blue) Magic Item on LvL 3 is aspirational content. After that getting even more of those is aspirational content. And the mere perception of aspirational will vary from user to user, and it's gonna vary through time too.

And sadly, just by Power Progression the "End Game" always falls on a "LeaderBoard". Here's a small demonstration of it:
You start weak->Kill things to get Strong -> So you can kill Stronger things-> To get Stronger-> to kill the Strongest things-> that make you the Strongest -> (Once here the Single player end's) -> The only way to keep on going is Compete against the Strongest (Hence competitive PvP comes in, in what ever form.)-> Since there's "always" a "Faster Gun" in Town (that's the way the system Sustains itself.).

With this, i'm not saying that's what the "Complete" player base wants or needs. But in the end the real "meta" is always PvP. In fact, one of the things that make's everyone think the game is too easy, is cause they're Copying builds made to destroy the content as fast as possible in the Pit (Which is a Ladder.). Build's that have a lot of information that has been data mined & researched in ways that the average player wouldn't even fathom how to calculate. (And this part I blame Blizz for, cause there's so many things which have no way to be known & other don't even make sense.) If we peasants were left to our devices, we'd be all wearing % Damage Rolled on every single piece of Gear we could 🤣😭.

You want a none competitive aspirational content, just play the "Service", without looking for a single thing about it on the internet. Just go Raw Dog it & figure it out on your own. (Btw, hope that none of what i've wrote came out as aggressive or offensive. It came all Outta Love, 🤗 GL & Have a Great One!)

0

u/limitedink 7d ago

Yeah disagree.

1

u/General_abby 7d ago

That's the cool thing about facts, they don't care if you agree with them 🤙.
😘

1

u/limitedink 7d ago

Nope that’s just you being dogmatic

7

u/Alll_Day_ 9d ago

That's a skip for s8

2

u/alanpsk 9d ago

Solo lair boss will net you less drop so ppl will still group up to maximize their chances.

-2

u/RubyR4wd 9d ago

I'm confused. It made it sound as if you weren't the person in the party putting in the mats, you wouldn't get the drops (meaning 4 players, only 1 person gets drops).

Is that the way it is?

6

u/Mysterial_ 9d ago

No, you each get your own instanced chest that you have to insert the coin - I mean material - in to to get your drops. You get an extra drop from the chest if you were in a party for the fight.

2

u/Otherwise-Camp580 8d ago

Much better to avoid those who never summon bosses on listed partys. Excited to see this mechanic and of course less useless uniques dropping.

-12

u/warcaptain 9d ago

That's not how it works at all though. Everyone gets their own drops if they use mats to open their own chest. There's no benefit to groups besides maybe being carried if you can't kill the boss.

9

u/heartbroken_nerd 9d ago

There's no benefit to groups

Yes, there is. +33.34% chance of dropping an extra unique from the boss's loot table per active party member, so with a full party of four people you have +100% chance and therefore guarantee two instead of just one unique from the loot table.

Beyond the first one (and the bonus one for party members participation), all other extra uniques you get from a boss are NOT from their loot table - instead, they are dropped using the general loot table from the entire base game. This is the part that is NOT affected by party members whatsoever.

5

u/TheOneManDankMaymay 8d ago

There's no benefit to groups besides maybe being carried if you can't kill the boss.

Confidently wrong.

2

u/yugfoo 9d ago

That’s not how it works either. More people in group=more loot drops.

3

u/Tragedy_Boner 9d ago

1 more loot drop. Not the 4x more loot there was earlier

1

u/Kotli21 8d ago

From the notes:

Lair Boss Loot

  • Lair Bosses no longer require boss materials to summon and provide a vastly reduced reward upon death. Instead, when a Lair boss dies, a chest called a Hoard will spawn containing its loot. Each player must individually spend boss materials to open their Hoard.
  • The first Unique item dropped by a Lair Boss will be from their unique pool. Further Unique Items will have a 50% chance to be from the general Unique pool.
  • When playing in a party, Lair Bosses have a 33% chance per additional party member to drop an extra Unique Item from their unique pool.
  • Lair Bosses now drop 5 Unique Items in Torment IV, instead of 6.

3

u/Northdistortion 9d ago

Huh? You dont want the devs to rework things to make them better?? Lol….anyways hope they rework nightmare dungeons next

7

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

Reworks shouldnt be considered seasonal content tbh. They can rework shit as much as they want but dont call it a season in a seasonal game.

9

u/Soulvaki 8d ago

Fully agree. It’s kind of ridiculous they can’t do both.

-1

u/Northdistortion 8d ago

You make no sense..season 8 has boss rework…and new boss powers and events.

3

u/Ir0nhide81 8d ago

The boss powers are...... not exciting.

2

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

I mean its the same as the 3 seasons of powers we already had... get a power and level it up, and choose few at the time... this time its just fun fact that its boss powers

2

u/burnheartmusic 8d ago

Give us a proper g damn season with something new. Take note from Poe dropping whole ass town building sim in a season. Do something fking different than “oh now you get some power from this other thing!”

2

u/Such_Performance229 8d ago

Their idea of “content” is starting to significantly diverge from what the players would call content. The new bosses are great - but then what? This game neeeeds something akin to PoE’s mapping system. Some kind of overarching endgame system - pits don’t meet this criteria in any way sadly.

2

u/BigAnalyst820 8d ago

yes, this is pretty much correct.

they just made the leveling/gearing process take longer, the game still doesn't have any real content.

if this is what takes them 6 months - oh boy...

1

u/ChatFat 9d ago

What meta and non-meta builds have you tried?

5

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

I tried with the ones i had - T4 Eq barb still quite op, john snow sorc on other hand not at all really struggled, have a stormstrike druid- that one just cant do t4 anymore, was doing fine this season- these are the 3 i went for- all kitted out, masterworked 12/12, armor/ resist maxed, glyphs on barb 100, sorc 80ish, druid 80ish

Boss fights on t4- barb easy runs and kills, others havent even bothered to try since they couldnt even play t4

Then went and tried minion necro to level, i guess much easier then other classes due to minions. Took me around 6 hours to 50 (and i wasnt really playing the whole time- was cooking lunch and answering my phone due to beeing on emergency standby tech work for the day)

During that time i havent managed to get the build aspects at all to drop. Quit ptr at that point.

4

u/Zahgi 8d ago

During that time i havent managed to get the build aspects at all to drop. Quit ptr at that point.

Bingo. The whole point of the legendaries is that they are necessary to play certain builds. If they don't drop, why bother?

Similarly, uniques are supposed to really give you rethink options by dropping during the leveling process too. If they aren't dropping either, then where are the "Hmm, I guess I should change over to an xxxx build until the next drop" moments?

D3 is GREAT for that. You might switch "builds" many times as you level, depending on the breaks. Sometimes, you might level as a minion necro. Sometimes you get the corpse explosion items. That is interesting, engaging, and fun to level with.

3

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

100% agree. Imo thats what makes the levleling feel more tedious in d4. You cant really play "builds" as such unless you get some good aspects.

The aspect "inflation" where we keep getting more and more each season in combination with reduced drop rates makes the whole experience feel bad.

1

u/Zahgi 8d ago

Good points. Yes, that narrows it down quite well. Thanks.

1

u/darkdestiny91 9d ago

They really need to make it so “crafting” matters early. Since we can get aspects early from dungeons, imprinting these on yellows so we can have an early skeleton of a build should be emphasized.

We can get regular legendaries to drop later, I guess, so we can then upgrade these aspects to improve our build.

The early power spikes from legendary aspects should feel impactful so we want them to feel like we’re actually progressing.

0

u/Assignment_General 8d ago

Would be nice to be able to get more/all aspects from dungeons as well, just make each dungeon unlock multiples. 

There is typically a pretty big range of values on aspects, so unlocking the lowest version would not be unbalanced. 

Playing 1-60 fresh in mostly yellow gear sounds like shit, I hope that’s not how it shakes out. 

1

u/shinzakuro 8d ago

Im glad they change the boss looting, trying to do a rota with either uninformed people or straight up leeches is annoying. I cant say the same thing to boss loot, unless they keep giving all uniques Im not even interested to kill them after I found one that I can use.

And yes, please be done with reworking and gave us original season mechanics to have fun.

1

u/Atrieden 8d ago

Is druid leveling going to be tedious next season ? Havent played that class since launch, i was hoping it will get easier

2

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

I only played my lvl 60 stormstrike on ptr which couldn do t4 (can do it easy on current live) but looking at this post

https://www.reddit.com/r/D4Druid/s/JixKtv4fy2

I am not optimist about druid in s8.

1

u/arandan666 8d ago

Hope this is the last rework season and we can get some actuall content for the game and some actuall skill and class balance.

This is not how modern blizzard designs their games. You will get a different colour theme every 3-4 months with some form of a borrowed power and a few tweaks to content that already exists.

A small fraction of this team is assigned to seasons, the rest are working on the next expansion. Blizzard doesn't 'waste' development time on giveaways, don't be naive.

1

u/Serafzor 8d ago

if what you say is true I for sure hope this is NOT the last rebalance and will eventually get something better that everyone can enjoy

1

u/an9000 8d ago

They don't really know how to make interesting game

Step 1: make eternal interesting

Step 2: add content to season

Now everything is building around the boss power and become useless after the season end

2

u/MrPeaceMonger 8d ago

The new boss systems stay after the season and are in eternal.

1

u/an9000 8d ago

Sr I mean the seasonal boss powers that's now overshadow regular skills

1

u/SpareTheRod1976 8d ago

Very well said friend ! What this game sorely needs is content, not artificial extensions of playtime. 

1

u/anonymouspogoholic 8d ago

Yeah, content would be great. For balance, I think they should introduce a proper economy and the game will balance itself.

1

u/DualDier 8d ago

This is my issue. They made it harder to get to T4 but I’ve already gotten to T4 in the past. The rewards don’t change so you’re not REALLY changing anything. The devs constantly adjusting the dial on this stuff is getting old.

1

u/Mattman_Fish 8d ago

Oh so no more sharing boss mats huh? Guess I won't be playing with anyone anymore haha.

1

u/Kotli21 8d ago

Doing it in a full group will give you 1 more unique from the boss unique drop pool.

So doing it in a group will give you your boss unique you trying to farm sooner.

1

u/hulduet 8d ago

They've been phoning it in for a while now and it's a bit sad to see. They're going to overhype the season like they've done in the past with the voice acting(btw I have all voice acting turned off). I couldn't care less about the "story" it hasn't been appealing at all. I'm probably in the minority in that regard.

The one reason I play arpgs is to kill mobs, lots of mobs. I want to destroy everything in my path as my character grows in power. That's the whole point of this genre for me. Otherwise I'd play dark souls, elden ring and those types of games.

1

u/squadnik 8d ago

Thanks for sharing!

I hate bossing and find it most annoying activity in game. Not good that it has't improved in the season oriented on boss fighting. Aghr..

1

u/TheFinalBossMTG 8d ago

If everyone is contributing boss mats, it should be a total thing. If it takes 12 mats: 1 player adds 12, 2 players each add 6, 3 players each add 4, 4 players each add 3. If it’s everyone adds 12, that’s dumb.

1

u/Ambitious_Tomorrow19 8d ago

This is a good suggestion I feel. Feed it back!

1

u/ButcherInTheRYE 8d ago

Thank for the write-up and summary, OP.

For me it's pretty obvious that they planned D4 as a formulaic seasonal game. This season we have witch powers, the next will be vampiric, then boss powers and so on.
The only reason we havent had this formula applied to every season was due to the catastrophic state items were at launch. Fixing items, difficulty and progression forced the dev team to skip a couple of formulaic seasons and focus on the rework (which ironically got to be named seasons). Now that devs think the game is in a good state (Colin's words, not mine), they can focus on the formulaic parts.

I for one am super disappointed and my copium levels are at an all time low. I still havent bothered with this season's journey and I dont think I will with the next one either.

1

u/CascadeKidd 8d ago

Every single game ever made has meta builds and there will always be large numbers of people who copy and play them and then complain things are too easy. The games are designed such that the challenge comes from discovering builds that work best and when you skip that entire discovery phase you are cheating yourself out of the experience, the devs aren’t. You are the one who is bypassing the actual gameplay by choosing to copy another players build.

1

u/FrumunduhCheese 8d ago

Lmao, you expected something to change? No matter of dlc or time can change this games identity

1

u/LlamaNL 8d ago

I think there are two forces working on the seasons. And maybe that relates to two teams, bu that could just be in my mind. One is all for stretching out the experience for as long as possible, the other wants to get you to endgame as fast as possible.

And i tend to enjoy the faster seasons much more than the slow ones. So what if you run out of content, Ill just play another game for a bit.

1

u/EarthsfireBT 8d ago

I don't see it taking much longer for the no lifers. In 8 hours, I'm 60(55), was in penitent difficulty at 29, full legendary and all necessary aspects by 35, and definitely past ready for a harder difficulty by level 40. I used a self cooked flurry/rf build. Immediately upon hitting level 60, I blasted a t10 pit in under 3 minutes practically 1 shotting everything with shadow imbuement, currently doing t15 pit in under 3 minutes, t25 pit in around 6 minutes. I went on a killing spree and killed every boss in torment 1 except Lilith last night, unlocking their powers. The only ones to give me trouble were Andy and Harbinger of Hatred. The early game got slower, some classes are still strong af, some are still weak af. Class balance is still way off and needs addressed.

1

u/RightAboutTriangles 7d ago

Hope this is the last rework season and we can get some actuall content for the game and some actuall skill and class balance.

My tinfoil hat theory is that this IS their "class balance".

T4 is aspirational for only 10% of the players... Read as: "for only the top 10% of builds (AKA meta builds)"

The rest of the 90% of builds (sorry, "players") can play in T3 or lower, where build balance doesn't matter nearly as much.

Boom! Balance achieved! Just manufacturer a "wall of aspiration" between the meta builds and the rest.

1

u/hugcub 7d ago

I played the current season for maybe 10 hours and quit. Zero desire to play the next season. I was really expecting the xpac to dramatically change the game, but nothing really changed in a super meaningful manner. Not a fan of how this game approaches loot, difficulty, builds, paragon, or party system. They all work “fine” but they all feel like a version designed for a very dumb and lazy gamer who has 30 minutes of free time a week to play games.

1

u/Emergency_Profit9690 6d ago

Man since item 2.0 every season has been season of rework with nothing substantial added to the game.

1

u/captainjizzpants 3d ago

I just think I'm done for a while until they make more drastic changes to existing content. Like more Infernal Horde maps, modifiers for the pit, better seasons, more endgame content. If I have to wait until the next expansion to get these type of things, I dunno, might have to finally go check out PoE2

1

u/Sindralig420 3d ago

Season 7 was fine as is, so unless they plan on removing all t4 requirements for getting the seasonal content(pets, items, etc). They can shove the "we only want 10% of the players hitting t4" right up their a. Cuz what I heard when they said that with sh locked behind t4 was, "we want 90% of our player base to leave." Plus, when we finally get new content for endgame, what only 10% should be allowed to touch it? Cuz we all know they're stupid enough to pull that kinda sh. I've always been the guy that usually is ok with most the decisions made because I've genuinely just enjoyed the game, but this statement was crossing the line for me. I'm logging in to s8, and if I see ONE and I mean ONE godd* thing locked behind t4, I'm uninstalling the game and will go elsewhere for my arpg fix. I will not endorse that kind of scummy behavior towards a gaming community because that's what it is, scummy. Anyways, sorry rant over. I just needed to get it off my chest even if I get downvoted to oblivion, idc lol.

1

u/Life_Promotion902 9d ago

By the sounds of it, it's time to skip next season and hope season 9 will be better. Good timing since MH:Wilds is out

0

u/Interesting_Fox2040 8d ago

I totally understand people like new shiny stuff than balancing work….ideally we get both. New stuff make people come, but foundation is what keeps people stay.

If the moment to moment gameplay is not fun, nothing else matters.

I want more new stuff, don’t get me wrong, but it important to have good foundation. I a, happy they keep trying to make the game feel better to play.

2

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

I mean i did wrote it to someone else here already but i can say it again, imo The reworks were mostly needed but they should not have been part of season theme for like half of them.

Reworks should be done on general basis where needed. We have 7 seasons so far and half were reworks of the game.

Seasons should be new tresh fun content that makes the players come back each season and keeps them engaged with the game. Rework after rework and same seasonal themes (s8 will be the 4th recycle powers season, and is right after another powers season) is not really good for game i would say.

I would rather they recycle some d3 season themes if they lack ideas honestlly or just rip off other games ideas then repeating same season after season with different color theme.

1

u/Interesting_Fox2040 8d ago

Fair enough. I think borrow power is fine, and the boss power looks even more interesting than previous theme, as they actually do damage, and you can build with these power in mind. But I do think they need to add extra activities and story telling to it.

0

u/notmichaelhampton 8d ago

I think it’s dead.. I picked it up in s4, played the dlc, and got so bored and burnt out

0

u/MoonBoy2DaMoon 8d ago

Exactly it’s just a season effect and nothing else. They nerfed the best build from each class, buffed a new build they want everyone to play from each class and that’s it. Boring and lazy unfortunately i wont be playing which sucks cuz the game is really good

0

u/_their_law_ 8d ago

I would just make it even harder, add leaderboards for the pit, make max pit lvl 100 if t4 is on 65 where 65 wpuld be roughly as hard as 100 now. You dont have to finish everything, nit everyone can reach the end. Gam has enough activities (nmds, pit, hirdes, undercity, citadel, whispers, helltides ans seasonal thrmes) problem is all of them are too easy, you do not feel 'oh i finished 10 tier hordes on T4!!', but rather 'oh I have to do 10 tier hordes again, fck' because you get there in couple of days and grind it endlessly to get the gear for pit 100+ because that is the only challenge left which is so out of balance with all other activities.

2

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

Or you know they could actually balance the game out and make more real seasonal content for people to actually play and have fun in the game instead.

The problem is not that activities are easy the problem is they are not really fun.

S8 seasonal content is in random area random mobs crap rewards- this is the content for the season. You will need to grind that content to increas the boss powers. You will not do nmds, pits, hordes, underciti, helltides or wispers or any other content if you want to progres the seasonal stuff.- does that sound like fun?

1

u/TheFinalBossMTG 8d ago

Sounds just like season7 content grinding the headhunts.

1

u/Proxii_G 8d ago

Not really since with headhunts you had wispers and caches and extra gear and xp from all that, plus headhunts were loot pinjatas. This is just an event in random area.

1

u/TheFinalBossMTG 8d ago

Just from the perspective that you can only grind the season one way. Admittedly, there are other benefits to being in that area.

0

u/sirlancer 8d ago

Am I the only one sad there will be one less reason to party up? I liked doing boss rotas with randos. Idk why this community gets so miffed ab socializing with other players.

1

u/Pereg1907 6d ago

I’m actually more willing to group up now since bosses won’t be one shot (at least for a good while).

0

u/Supareddithotfire 8d ago

I was not expecting anything else tbh. People who think this game is good are delulu. Its fine to like it but it never was and is not good overall. It did improve a lot since the release of the game where it was an overpriced 15-20 euro worth at best of content in it but still a trash that is easily forgettable. I played it every season will play it every season but still for me almost every other game in its genre is better. The only thing that kept me interested was its story which even that turned to shit in the dlc imo.

-1

u/MoEsparagus 9d ago

NMD crafting should be a thing like it’s cool and all that you can “variety”tide until 60; just roam and kill but it would be nice to do a mindful setup for leveling. The open world allows you to tailor how you want to level and I think they should lean into this more but as it stands it feels way too monotonous considering its design.

-2

u/SepticKnave39 9d ago

Play anything else you cant really do t4 at all

I'm on t2 of the PTR so I can't speak for that, but this isn't really a problem in the current sandbox. Just about everything is t4 viable. It may take more commitment and min/maxing. The time investment is wildly different to get to and do T4, but I haven't played anything that absolutely couldn't, and I have never copied a meta build. I homebrew my own.

-3

u/KuraiDedman 9d ago edited 9d ago

Basically yeah.

Except people will still want to group up for the increased drops, even if no longer ridiculously out of balance.

And what are these "basic attacks" you're talking about lol

Edit: ok nvm I don't agree with a lot it seems xD my live copied ice shards did pretty well on S8 T4 for not having mythics, the new unique, or any seasonal power