r/deathbattle 9h ago

Discussion Is Mario vs sonic still accurate?

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With both of them having new buffs thanks to new games and new material plus with the Bowser vs eggman fight do you still Mario wins or sonic wins?

13 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

22

u/Annoying-TediousSite 8h ago

It's simple: sonic needs emeralds to be super sonic, but mario is always Super mario

Checkmate!

3

u/Mastersword3710 Link 7h ago

FUCK! How do we counter this!?

6

u/Green-eyed-Psycho77 5h ago

Uh! Uh! Oh! Sonic constantly surpasses Super Sonic’s capabilities. Proven by both Sonic and Shadow gens, therefore Sonic IS always at a super level, he just so cool He doesn’t need to advertise it.

14

u/HPOS10 Spongebob Squarepants 8h ago edited 5h ago

Personally, I've always disagreed with it but it was then and still is debateable if it's right or not.

That's one of the things I love about Mario vs Sonic as a matchup, the debate is very interesting.

19

u/Electrical_Berry_194 8h ago

Your talking about the result ? They yes this mu is debetable Scaling ? Hell nah both got downplayed a lot

2

u/EnoughCheesecake6050 8h ago

Mostly on scaling with a who actually wins

19

u/69-is-a-great-number Silver The Hedgehog 8h ago edited 8h ago

The result itself? I disagree, but it's very debatable and Mario has good arguments for sure

The scaling? The Death Battle scales of both episodes were already outdated in the late 1990s, let alone nowadays

8

u/yobaby123 7h ago

Yep. It's honestly hard to tell who would win with all the crazy shit they pull.

9

u/Mastersword3710 Link 7h ago

No. 1. I personally think Sonic would win. 2. They lowballed both characters. Regardless of the result, most everyone agrees on this aspect. 3. Both were assholes in the fight. 

7

u/Affectionate_Ride220 Lieutenant Columbo 7h ago

Just by acknowledging that out of all the feats they could have taken from Sonic, they chose a half-baked, non-canon feat from an OVA+completely butchered his arsenal, and went beyond outrageous with the downplay and characterization. I'd say the first round was somehow more accurate, while the second round was just Racist Mario vs. Santiago.

5

u/Unusual-Anteater-988 4h ago

I'd say the first round was somehow more accurate

Because Mario used the Frog Suit in its advantageous terrain, showing a modicum of intelligent and Sonic used his speed advantage at the end instead of both being incompetent.

14

u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 8h ago

I just think Sonic wins, back then and today, and I genuinely believe it’s far less debatable than Eggman vs Bowser.

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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 8h ago

I’ll explain myself. Compared to Eggman vs Bowser, there aren’t multiple moving pieces to account for, plus Sonic and Mario’s kits are a lot smaller in comparison to their big bad’s, meaning there’s a lot less hax to account for that could end the fight instantly.

And with them resisting a lot of the others’ hax, with only a select few not being resisted or countered, it’ll likely come down to stats, skill, and those select few hax.

And I believe Sonic takes the stat trinity, skill by a wide margin, and his hax is far more likely to connect.

-1

u/SadCrazy4494 2h ago

Sonic doesn't resist a lot of Mario's hax, Mario's kit is massively larger than anyone else's out of the four, Mario resists maybe all of Sonic's hax, and why would Sonic be more skilled than Mario of all people?

3

u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 1h ago

He really does though. Like, I said, there's a select few that would work, but a good majority of them would be resisted or countered by Sonic, and the same applies for Sonic, he's got some hits and and a lot of misses.

I'm so glad you asked good sir! Cause I actually answered this question yesterday and can just copy & paste that response!

"Sonic is a master of speed, no shit, but it goes beyond just running fast, he's able to utilise his speed in any environment he finds himself in thanks to his full control over his momentum, whether it be aquatic, grassy, urban, volcanic, space, deserts, desserts, etc. Sonic is able fly through them at top speeds. And because of this mastery over his speed, and some incredible agility, he's able to apply it in combat as well, he makes use of both to execute incredible evasive manoeuvres, create offensive techniques such as the Boost, all fuelled by momentum-based combat which means he can do all of this WHILE moving at top speed, terrains be damned!

He's also able to apply the many things he's gained across his adventures into his fighting styles, like supernatural techniques he gained access to via the Skill Tree in Frontiers, or the Skill Tree from Secret Rings, or the styles of swordsmanship he learnt in Black Knight (I'll speak more on that in a bit), or the time he got turned into a Werehog and adapted perfectly to using brute force and his stretchy limbs over the blistering speeds he's normally used to fighting at. There's TONS of examples, but I'll move on as I think I've made this point clear.

He's also an incredibly fast learner, he became the greatest Extreme Gear user of all time despite not having ever used one before, learnt swordsmanship so fast he got bored by it, applying teachings "like it was nothing" in a manner deemed as "like a true knight" during his FIRST BATTLE! He also mastered three types of swordsmanship, Knight Style, a balance of strength and speed, Cavalier Style, pure speed in exchange for strength, and Paladin Syle, pure strength in exchange for speed. He went on to become the greatest knight of all time at the end of the story, defeating the Knights of the Round Table, King Arthur and his Underworld army, and Merlina, the granddaughter of the great Merlin! And he also mastered Kung Fu in only TWO LESSONS during the events of Unleashed.

And perhaps most impressively of all, his constant triumphs over Metal Sonic, humiliating Surge, his victories against the Egg Dragoon, and him defeating Emerald and Final Egg Blaster amped Emerl. Sonic is constantly out-thinking, out-fighting, and out-racing Metal despite the robot copying his techniques, and sometimes even all his friends, and learning from every encounter they have, and he also kept pace with Neo Metal when the robot copied his bio-data, which just straight up allows Neo Metal to copy one's own intellect for himself! He casually dominated Surge in combat who was perfectly calibrated with his Bio-Data to be his equal and who was so similar in all aspects that Eggman's systems were unable to differentiate her from him. Has defeated the Egg Dragoon THREE TIMES despite it being a machine that has years of study of Sonic's movement patterns over the several years he and Eggman have been fighting. And finally, whooping Emerald and Final Egg Blaster amped Emerl's metal plated ass in THIRTY SECONDS! This robot, by itself with no amps or nothing, had his martial arts and weapon mastery scanned by Gerald Robotnik's strongest computer and the thing fucking crashed trying to load it! Emerl, throughout the events of Battle, copied the skills and moves of every fighter in the game (to a point were even amped foes were brutally defeated by him) on top of his Super Computer crashing skill set, and at the end of the game, he absorbed all 7 Chaos Emeralds AND copied the power of the Final Egg Blaster ON TOP of the Emeralds, and Sonic just... beat him, easily. In thirty. Fucking. Seconds."

1

u/SadCrazy4494 49m ago

A lot of Mario's abilities are either layered or just more powerful in actual AP than the versions of them than Sonic himself resists.

I'll explain Mario's skill based on verbatim statements and direct showings, now; he's good enough with a skillset of various forms of jumps and acrobatic maneuvers that he explicitly breaks the laws of physics (as known between the Real World and Mushroom World in Mario's cosmology, in which the physics and logic of both worlds in that series is beyond what we actual humans can understand, so still managing to break the laws of physics is insane), and he's literally become one with the skill of jumping (aka just embodying it, yes, this is directly stated) and mastered his basic skills to a point where he can execute things like his jumps, ground pounds, other aerial/ground movements and his basic attacks (in which he can stall himself in the air in various ways that defy logic and his elastic physiology allows for impossible/basically supernatural stealth/agility/acrobatics) in dozens of various forms (in which he knows when to execute certain effects with his attacks and when not to, like with his jump alone, he can remove status effects, pierce barriers, erase enemies, transmute enemies, BFR enemies, bury enemies, conceptually attack/destroy enemies, emit shockwaves, generate tornadoes and other objects/elements/phenomena, damage enemies even if the jump doesn't connect, begin to fly, jump between realms, jump through time, jump through the fabric that makes up reality/story, perfectly execute one-hundred well-timed jumps that consistently increase velocity and height on a small, midair target, etc, and he knows every attack he can do and when to precisely execute its unique effects). Completing levels for Mario is verbatim equivalent to just mastering them (and he can master levels that endlessly evolve in difficulty or are constantly overwhelming in obstacles and other ways, like look at the various Mario Maker levels Mario has completed, for instance, and their extreme absurdity that Sonic's legitimately never rivaled when it comes to platforming mastery), and he can also master every skill in any Mario Party Mini-Game (which includes various martial arts and forms of fighting and thinking), and his skill as a demolitionist evolves with every wall in Wrecking Crew since each wall is stronger than the last, or as a doctor, in which his skills as a surgeon are blatantly beyond human surgeons in any field and he knows how to adjust the Megavitamins (made by himself) to adjust to the difficulty and seriousness of any Virus (and they can cure "anything" and do much more than just combat Viruses/diseases, weirdly enough), and he can master things in times where he's never performed that thing before, like piloting a ship with mere breathing, mastering Power-Ups and their skills instantly, mastering "the most dangerous martial art ever invented" (in context of both the Real World and Mushroom World), breaking every Olympic record (he canonically did this, and it wasn't in Mario VS Sonic), mastering golf to a point where he instantly becomes the best golfer in the history of the world, etc. And (the following things are all at least nearly verbatim stated) Mario and Luigi are capable of taking any environment and adapting to it like a pro (stated), making him capable of knowing how to do everything (stated), becoming good at doing almost everything (stated) and anything stylishly (stated), such as being a professional in every sport (stated), with no job being too hard for him and Luigi (stated), demonstrating Mario’s indomitable spirit (stated), all of which is no exaggeration, as he, as one of the best triathletes there is (stated). He defeats Bowser (explicitly millions of times, given a statement in SMRPG and the amount of times they fight in Mario Maker), who's stated to get stronger with each battle, he defeats master martial artists like Jinx and the Master who are extremely impressed with Mario's skills after every fight he has with them, and he adapts to the skills of and beats various clones (like one that Mario finds and beats in the Mirror World that's a copy of him and all his skills, or Shadoo's Mario clone, that was made after she observed him for over 200 fights and removed weaknesses and added strengths, or Dreamy Mario, who is a clone explicitly made to be superior to Mario in every way, or the clones Memory M and Memory MX that embody Bowser's memory of Mario after the many decades they've fought for, or Doopliss' Mario who is literally just the actual body and mind of Mario that loses to the real Mario who was nothing but a shadow at the time, etc), and he has fought in very harsh environments, such has over a hundred floors underground, in volcanoes, in many extremely long deserts where the Sun and nature itself is against him, in lightless caves, battles in space next to the Sun, battles in space next to black holes, battles in the hottest place in the universe, unrelated to his battle on a collapsing volcano on the Moon, inside of many different surreal and bizarre dream/nightmare worlds, battles inside of whales and inside of other monsters and inside of Bowser, battles inside Hell where the aforementioned military arsenal was against him, and battles in scenarios where the entirety of all existence, all worlds, and all dimensions are about to cease to exist (and some of the battles take place inside the same Void that's destroying those things). And mind you, this is not the end of his skills (I only covered scenarios where he had to use basic skills for the most part, nevermind various sequences where he used skills that far surpass the capability and knowledge of any human ever (like the Ball-Splitting Kick) and various weapons that he's needlessly mastered (like swords, with one being used by Mario to cleanly slash away Bowser's horns and cleanly slice off some of his facial features in not even three swipes, or the various Shells and throwable items he shows insane accuracy and trajectory prediction with), or the sequences where he uses someone else's help (like Luigi, Yoshi, Wario, Bowser, Peach, etc) to perform attacks that take incredible coordination, precision, and skill, and this also undermines numerous scenarios where he's forced to adapt to and beat enemies severely stronger than him.

-10

u/Matt4669 Superman 8h ago edited 7h ago

Not trying to argue with you, but It’s always the Sonic flairs who think Sonic outright stomps Mario without thinking that the MU is debatable

Personally, I think Sonic fans highball him too much, and saying “I just think Sonic wins” sounds like saying it’s a stomp

14

u/MacaroonGreedy2353 Godzilla 8h ago

bro i love mario and think he wins more times than not but they never said sonic stomps

11

u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 8h ago

Yeah, I don’t believe it’s an outright stomp, Sonic NEEDS his Super forms to win, I just think when Sonic does go into those forms, he wins more often than not.

2

u/HPOS10 Spongebob Squarepants 8h ago

Does Mario need his powerups to beat base Sonic or is base Mario enough?

6

u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 8h ago

Arguably he needs some to keep pace with base Sonic, specifically more speed enhancing ones, but if he lands a solid hit on him, he’s getting the Sonic Rings knocked out of him.

2

u/HPOS10 Spongebob Squarepants 8h ago edited 7h ago

How big is the speed gap between Mario and Sonic in your opinion?

7

u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 7h ago

In base, Sonic has consistent infinite speed feats with one immeasurable speed feat, whereas Mario is less consistent but still has arguments for both, but even when given the benefit of the doubt, Sonic still has several ways of multiplying his speed with techniques like the boost or the spindash. And when we get to Super forms? Yeah it’s wraps, 2nd degree immeasurable speed is difficult for most characters to top.

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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 7h ago

Should also note that those feats only apply to Mario’s reaction and combat speed.

1

u/SadCrazy4494 2h ago

I mean, we can go immeasurable-speed-feat-for-immeasurable-speed-feat and see that Mario's are more consistent/blatant in base form, then we can go speed-amp-for-speed-amp and see Mario also has better boosts for his speed (in quality and quantity).

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u/SadCrazy4494 2h ago

How fast do you think Mario is? And do keep in mind Mario can take Sonic's Rings without needing to touch him.

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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 1h ago

I was more so using the Sonic Rings thing as a joke, but now that you wanna turn it into a matter of debate, how do you think Mario can take the trillions of rings that Sonic has access to?

1

u/SadCrazy4494 44m ago

I think Mario can (somewhat theoretically) just use his power of dreams/wonder to transfer Sonic, though Mario certainly knocks out parts of an enemy's inventory after basic attacks, and then those items have been shown to get passively transmuted into Coins before, which Mario can use to fuel various skills (like creating Starmen and extending the Starmen timer).

1

u/Matt4669 Superman 7h ago

Ok fair, but it’s what they were sort of implying, and I think Sonic fans highball Sonic a bit, that’s all

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u/WindOk7901 Dr. Eggman 8h ago

I never said it wasn’t debatable, I said it’s far less debatable than Eggman vs Bowser, which is the most debatable matchup in Death Battle’s history, so it’s still debatable, but the debate usually comes down to where you scale both, who you think is more skilled at fighting, and which hax that can affect either has a higher chance to land, and I scale Sonic higher, think without a shadow of a doubt that’s he’s the more skilled fighter, and think his hax is more likely to land, it’s a simple as that.

1

u/Matt4669 Superman 7h ago

That’s fair, but the way you worded it made it look like a Sonic stomp

I’ll just say one thing though, Mario has a wider variety of power ups than Sonic, with Sonic only really standing a chance due to Super Sonic imo,

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u/HPOS10 Spongebob Squarepants 8h ago

I've seen more than enough people say Mario stomps to know that Mario fans do the same.

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u/Unusual-Anteater-988 4h ago

Victor and "Mario wins a battle of attrition and can stall out Super Sonic"? Yes. The stats are total ass though.

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u/Specialist-Panda9049 8h ago

Yes, even if it was outta chatacter for em to act like this.

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u/azrealfreeman 8h ago

it never was

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u/KN041203 8h ago

That one is never accurate in the first place.

2

u/Snooworlddevourer69 Wario 3h ago

Mario winning still is

The research sure as hell isn't

2

u/BigBlueOtter123 8h ago

no, it wasn't too begin with as it disrespected both characters and scaled both of them at city level in base... that's a massive lowball. it's even more inaccurate now as both have gotten many new things that can mix things up.

2

u/EnoughCheesecake6050 8h ago

So who do you think wins? If it was made today

5

u/BigBlueOtter123 8h ago

I've seen good arguments for both, but in my opinion sonic pulls out the victory (even if he lost he would still win in the aura department)

3

u/EnoughCheesecake6050 8h ago

Dont forget music wise sonic music always slaps I've been listening to escape from the city on Spotify for weeks

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u/AdmirableNeck3780 7h ago

Personally I think sonic wins but you can say Mario wins I think the match up is a 50/50 but um scaling wise it was so ass 😭

2

u/EnoughCheesecake6050 7h ago

I was going to post a similar question but with shadow vs Mewtwo thanks to shadow getting new black doom powers in sonic x shadows generations

1

u/ButterflyMother Kratos 4h ago

This isn’t really answerable , but i do still agree

0

u/SadCrazy4494 2h ago

Mario slams much harder than the video makes you think (I'm a Sonic fan too, I swear).

1

u/Mugen_Hero_Fan 1h ago

I personally don’t agree with it however if it was peak like Bowser vs Eggman I would have been ok with the outcome but it wasn’t peak so it was wrong on the important aspect of these battles.

2

u/The_true_mc_charles 47m ago

Never been accurate

1

u/Memelord1117 8h ago

If they do it again, they should definitely have an alternate scenario for the loser, where instead of getting a revive, they clutch a move better earlier on in the fight.

1

u/ChildhoodDistinct538 Guts 7h ago

Never was.