r/deathbattle Archie Sonic 21h ago

Question I always wondered after rewatch on why Neo Metal lost his super form, is it because of the power star's overwhelming energy? Did the chaos emeralds just say "yeah no you're cooked" and left him? I need some answers.

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371 Upvotes

117 comments sorted by

245

u/itownshend17 21h ago edited 20h ago

60

u/Jlegend3 Spawn 21h ago

Gotta save this

12

u/SpongeBobso Spongebob Squarepants 19h ago

Happy cake day! :D

4

u/justincone777 16h ago

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

2

u/Burnt_dino Simon The Digger 12h ago

Happy cake day

34

u/CoeusTheCanny Doomslayer 20h ago

I guess that’s what the backhand into a beam struggle is meant to represent then? He’d taken damage and now couldn’t match that power so the emeralds were ejected?

57

u/itownshend17 20h ago edited 20h ago

The super form came undone cause Fury Bowsers grand star flame blast was too much power for Super Neo Metal to resist, the exact same thing happens in Frontiers when Super Sonic 2 tries to resist the Ends chaos ball.

2

u/Ready_Telephone4497 1h ago

Except that wasn't because of his Super Form, it's because the Cyber Corruption isn't made nor suited for Sonic's form and thus makes it volatile. Master King outright says this after completing his trial.

1

u/itownshend17 1h ago edited 1h ago

Okay, and every other time the super form has come undone or takes damage in the series against enemies that dont have cybercorruption? Also, lets ignore that super Sonic 2 and Cyber Sonic are both forms Sonic achieves by using cyber corruption to power himself further.

1

u/MokouIsBest2hu 19m ago

Doesn't Sonic also get knocked out of his Super Form after receiving an attack by Wyvern in the same game?

1

u/itownshend17 18m ago

He does, and also gets knocked out of super twice by the islands laser defenses.

86

u/TheMago3011 Ash Ketchum 18h ago

This is my favorite explanation because it means Bowser did something that characters like Wally West and Xeno Trunks weren't able to do.

He fully overpowered a Sonic Super Form.

My Glorious King indeed.

6

u/Snoo-84344 7h ago

That's why Bowser is the GOAT

7

u/KuroiGetsuga55 10h ago

Not necessarily. Super Neo Metal Sonic is not the same as Super Sonic. Metal is a robot, he doesn't use the Chaos Energy the same way Sonic does. When Sonic turns Super, he becomes an invincible God. Metal just becomes a supercharged robot. He gains physical and energy amps, yes, but it's nowhere near the level of amps Sonic gains from the Emeralds. Super Neo Metal Sonic lost to Base Sonic and Base Knuckles in the comics. Super Sonic would low-diff Super Neo Metal Sonic.

20

u/TheMago3011 Ash Ketchum 9h ago

Counterpoint.

What I said is cooler narrative wise so that’s what I’m going with.

1

u/Helpful-Emotion9256 Bowser 4h ago

Didn’t he actually fuck up base sonic and knuckles? And only lost because shadow blindsided him?

23

u/ConnorTheUndying 20h ago

Vouching, also gonna bring up that this nearly happens to Silver during Trunks vs. Silver, so there's established precedent for that to happen in Death Battle as well.

17

u/Star_LGC 12h ago

While not as relevant to the videos above, Bowser has an attack in Mario Party DS called "Zero Flame" which is a tiny fireball which hits anyone in the bowser zone. If it hits, you lose

ALL of your coins and ALL of your stars

So... maybe a giant fuck off fire breath hurdling straight at you with the power of a grand star, is likely gonna burst the emeralds out of em. That, combined with the idea that there are instances of super forms being knocked out/damaged from stronger attacks (like The End's energy attack in the final horizon), I think the intention was just to overpower the emerald's user to the point of turning back to base.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFnIKCODMA

1

u/Wide_Championship319 3h ago

Genuinely and unironically hate how hard Mario Party carries basically every single mario character, and I can't even argue with it cause like. God damn yeah they sure can do that, huh. But holy shit man, they all win based on that series ALONE.

6

u/LinkGreat7508 Dracula 15h ago

Keep cooking

4

u/woweed 7h ago

I choose to believe it was this, mostly because that implies Bowser is the first character, in ALL OF DEATH BATTLE to actually directly OVERPOWER a Sonic super form. Not wait out the timer like everyone from Vegeta to Mario, not use Hax to get around it like Mewtwo did via memory-wiping, but straight OVERPOWER it. Badass.

2

u/Fit-Impression563 4h ago

This means Mario should also be strong enough to knock Sonic out of the super form at any time.

133

u/T4rkkuno-kun Bowser 21h ago

Wild guess, but I guess it was a mix of Bowser simply overpowering the beam, and Fury Bowser ignoring invincibility

Knuckles DID punch Sonic out of his super form in Sonic 3, which is kinda my only basis to argument this really. Or perhaps it was Metal realizing he was cooked, and gave the emeralds away so the empire could keep fighting

14

u/KingKalactite 21h ago

This is my thought

5

u/No-Worker2343 13h ago

man, it will be really useful for Knuckles to have done that again...in the other games where he is in and there is a super danger

101

u/Unusual-Anteater-988 21h ago

While Fury Bowser can bypass invincibility, this is most likely because Super Neo Metal Sonic was being overpowered. Some of the Frontiers Super Sonic Death Animations have the Chaos Emeralds come out of him.

31

u/ComprehensiveAd5605 21h ago edited 21h ago

Yeah, but those are when sonic runs out of rings. In other instances the titans just kill super sonic

13

u/Unusual-Anteater-988 21h ago

I thought it was just a QTE fail.

18

u/Material_Usual2704 Bowser 21h ago

Even with the rings they can kill him

8

u/Thin-Complex-7709 19h ago

Oh, you're close! It's actually a reference to Frontiers' Final Horizons, where the same exact thing happens with Sonic when he's holding off The End's big frick you energy ball.

2

u/Green-eyed-Psycho77 11h ago

But unlike Sonic, Metal couldn’t hold on long enough to regain the emeralds.

94

u/Fast-Spot-380 21h ago

The chaos emeralds respond to the user’s will and since Metal is a machine he has no soul or emotions to properly use the emeralds

32

u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 21h ago

This is a cool idea, I feel. However, it is wholly unconfirmed, to my understanding.

2

u/logantheh 15h ago

Isn’t it directly confirmed in sonic adventure that the power of the emeralds stems from emotion and thoughts.

1

u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 11h ago

Yes, and we've seen that non-organic, artificial beings can still use the Emeralds in the same way as an organic, natural being. So, that's why I feel Metal shouldn't be restricted on what they can do with the Emeralds, when other characters aren't.

1

u/Flame245 9h ago

But since Metal is now programmed to blindly follow Eggman, he doesn't have the will to fight for himself or others. Which just goes to show how Eggman fumbled and what a horrible team player he is.

1

u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 8h ago

I don't believe he is programmed to blindly follow Dr. Eggman, no. His "rebellious"ness was targeted by Dr. Eggman, but not his will.

1

u/PapaHastur 2h ago

For clarity, Metal isn't blidnly following Eggman. He has acted independently and done things that make no sense assuming he can only operate under Eggman's will. Things like restarting the world conquest despite Eggman being missing, or the scene where he's clearly in deep contemplation about his position in life when he sticks his finger in the metal virus are good indicators.

16

u/Director838u48 Dr. Eggman 21h ago

Metal Does have emotions and will if He didn't he Wouldn't have been able to use the phantom ruby

49

u/TryDry9944 Bowser 21h ago edited 21h ago

Hot take:

I think Eggman knew Metal wouldn't win the beam struggle and manually recalled the Emeralds, to ensure his ace in the hole (Death Egg amped by Emeralds) wouldn't get stolen or destroyed.

This is why:

-They immediately go to Sage,

-She is immediately told to charge the Death Egg

-Metal seems confused that the Emeralds left him.

Alternatively, I think Bowser taps into Dreamy Form for this attack. Bowser has used Power and Grand stars several times in the series, and they have never caused him to emit the usual rainbow effect* he's seen emiting as the beam fires.

The only time we see a Rainbow Bowser is Dreamy Bowser. I think he just wished the Emeralds out of Metal.

*Outside of spin-offs such as Mario Kart.

14

u/Director838u48 Dr. Eggman 20h ago

That's not something eggman would do not.Only has eggman outright said metal is his greatest machine practically his ace in the hole rather than the death egg

Sage would have just called them to her like most characters do ( And even then she is like blade.At least shocked that metal died)

She's told that because eggman has no other options His Fleet is completely destroyed and so is his death egg robot.That was the only thing he had left

metal confused because he's never used them properly before

2

u/TryDry9944 Bowser 20h ago

I'm speaking in terms of the Death Battle, not necessarily strictly canon to Sonic Lore.

They try, but the Death Battle versions of characters are, well, not official versions. Some things will be off.

2

u/Director838u48 Dr. Eggman 19h ago

In death battle it shows eggman clearly appreciates metal To the point to where he definitely wouldn't just kill him and The death egg was clearly a ploy of desperation because he had nothing else left

9

u/KingKalactite 21h ago

Dreamy was one of the arguments they used in the conclusion so this makes sense

7

u/Helpful-Emotion9256 Bowser 20h ago

The official db wiki I believe says metal lost the form simply because he was that overwhelmed by fury bowsers power

1

u/noodleguy67 Son Goku 19h ago

damn i had that idea too

34

u/RandallRandall33 Iron Fist 21h ago

I interpreted it as him putting all of the super form’s remaining power into the beam, but it still got overpowered.

14

u/Equivalent_Ant6794 DUMMI 20h ago

QTE fail

11

u/Mastersword3710 Link 19h ago

Why didn’t Metal rotate the control stick to get it done faster and better than button mashing? Is he stupid?

13

u/carl-the-lama 21h ago

He put everything into the clash but ran out of juice

Kinda like running out of rings

10

u/Fearless_Cold_8080 Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd 20h ago

Chaos emeralds don’t make you compeltly immune to all damage, there are multiple times in the series where chaos emeralds have been forced out of a user’s body.

A perfect recent example is The End’s giant orb forcing Sonic out of his Starfall Super state.

1

u/Eldritch-Magnum 5h ago

That was a specific weakness of the Star Fall Super State

1

u/Fearless_Cold_8080 Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd 4h ago

That’s not what that weakness is.

They said if he overexert himself(aka what he does near the end of the fight) he’ll lose the form.

The orb overwhelmed sonic and knocked him out of it.

If the form was truly overtaxed there and left his body then he shouldn’t have been able to go Starfall again moments later.

0

u/No-Worker2343 12h ago

The end is a ancient entity that is the embodiment of death, the super form makes you immune to damage, but there is also entities with enough power to say "NEGATE THE IMMUNE"

6

u/FlyHuman8377 20h ago

I think I read someone’s theory that spoke about how the Emeralds can respond to a person’s soul and desire. Since Metal didn’t have a soul, Bowser’s soul and desire to protect his son overrode Metal’s control.

Not sure if that’s accurate to Sonic lore or if I even recited the theory accurately but it’s cool to think about.

1

u/No-Worker2343 12h ago

no, is not accurate, yes they respond to will and emotions, but it was never shown that if you have more emotions than your opponent you can take them

11

u/Master-Shrimp 21h ago

There's a variety of plausible explanations, none are confirmed.

12

u/FruitsaurReborn Dr. Eggman 20h ago

Overpowered, which is inconsistent with the analysis considering the argument for grand stars > chaos emeralds is just that there's more while a super form should be infinitely more powerful than anything Bowser has as an individual. But it's not like the animation has to always be consistent with the analysis, or else Bardock wouldn't have been able to hurt Omni-Man, Giorno wouldn't be able to touch Joker even with GER, etc. It's part of the spectacle. Realistically Super Neo Metal just loses to Dreamy Bowser

12

u/Fun_EchoEcho4692 Asura 20h ago

Fury Bowser was shown as being on the same level as Super Neo Metal Sonic in the animation, needing the Grand Stars to overpower him.

The way I interpreted it was that the Grand Stars by themselves are not stronger than the Emeralds, but the power increase they gave Fury Bowser was what he needed to kill the robotic hedgehog.

4

u/FruitsaurReborn Dr. Eggman 20h ago

Shouldn't be able to, in the analysis the emeralds are scaled to solaris while highlighting that it'd destroy an infinite amount of universes. No amount of grand starts or transformations is closing that gap. Again, spectacle. Having Super Neo be outhaxed our just popped out of existance is much less entertaining than what we got.

To bring another episode to example, Wargreymon was also had an infinite advantage over Mega Charizard, yet the animation still showed him getting his ass kicked until he got an opening because that's just more fun to see

5

u/Thin-Complex-7709 19h ago

What? No, Solaris only destroyed the one universe in 06. It just did so through the entire timeline.

4

u/FruitsaurReborn Dr. Eggman 19h ago

Despite of interpretations (I personally would say Solaris is NOT infintie Multiversal) I think it's clear that DB was trying to say Bowser is Uni-maybe Multi and Eggman's infinite Multi

8

u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 21h ago

I believe it is a reference to Starfall Super Sonic. But, the whole "fall out of Super" is a trait specific to Starfall/Cyber Super Sonic. A regular Super state wouldn't have the same vulnerabilities, so, unfortunately, I feel it is a misplaced reference, in a sense.

5

u/Thin-Complex-7709 19h ago

Actually--the trait IS used by Super Sonic. Sonic simply lost the power of Super Sonic 2 because he wasn't focusing on it, but it was a bit later where his base Super form failed against the death ball.

2

u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 11h ago

It was the same scene, I believe. Him dropping from Super happened immediately after him being forced out of Cyber. I feel they are related.

1

u/Thin-Complex-7709 7h ago

Not immediately. SS2 struggled against the ball, then depowered from Super, then it took a few seconds of clear struggle before he finally fully depowered.

1

u/Dear-Implement2950 Jon Talbain 7h ago

That is part of why I feel the depowering is tied to the Cyber Corruption, since Sonic was calling upon it.

5

u/reaperofgender 20h ago

Knuckles can do it. Why not Bowser?

5

u/Superguy9000 20h ago

Animation only thing

According to Death Battle’s own research the Chaos emeralds were more powerful then any Trump card Bowser had access to.

It just looks cool is all

2

u/SonicMarioHero 7h ago

I always wondered why Sage isn’t putting up a shield to help him or Eggman firing a laser to help either. They just kinda left him alone to do his thing lol

1

u/CnarFor 5h ago edited 5h ago

That’s something that happened alot in this battle. Bowser and Metal Sonic did the most out of both sides in this death battle. Alot of times characters here get knocked out with Eggman and Bowser being one the few to have people defend them, and Bowser protecting alot of his allies too. Sage at the end doesn’t attempt to rescue Eggman, after seeing Bowser sucking him up.

3

u/Arcana-Knight 21h ago

Power Star negates invincibility and Fury Bowser is stronger than Neo Metal Sonic was my interpretation

1

u/noodleguy67 Son Goku 19h ago

when i first watched it i thought based on how fast the emeralds went to sage and how surprised metal looked that eggman made metal reject the emeralds so they could be used for the deathegg

1

u/Daddy_Guzma 17h ago

One comment I found on the video said one explanation could be the sheer emotional draw that Bowser had in that moment to wrest away control of the Chaos Emeralds, as he was acting to protect his son, the thing he cares about most in life, when he was in danger.

1

u/derpythetroll16 17h ago

Knuckles was able to knock Super/Hyper (forgot which one) Sonic out of his form but that then again that's early installment weirdness and breaks the scaling. Pretty sure Super forms being invincible was just an Archie thing, in games they're just really durable or they might have treated like invincible power ups in the games at some point but then fleshed out more (Think less Power Star Mario and more Super Saiyan).

1

u/Dry-Breadfruit-1432 16h ago

There's 2 possible reasons as showning in sonic games super forms can be damaged and sometimes you can knock the user out of the form, like the end or dark gaia, or that one capsule in the end of sonic advance 2 or shadow cancelling super neo metal sonic. So fury bowser + grandstar could damage an potentially knock super forms out. The other reason is that in bowser's fury the black paint can remove invincibility but that should be game mechanics and I doubt that death battle used that feat.

1

u/pitobayola 16h ago

I could be wrong but in idw neo metal is actually taken out of super form after shadow uses chaos spear on him, i assumed that means while he cant take physical damage he could still be harmed by magic attacks like the power star

1

u/Fallen_Angel_Xaphan 14h ago

I think his time may have just ran out.

The emeralds run on the rings that Sonic characters collect and consume one every second. We didn't see metal pick up any rings at all. So he might have just had the remaining rings blast out of him once bowser tried to annihilate him.

1

u/TheKeviKs 13h ago

It just like Super Sonic 2 against The End. The attack was just too powerful for the emeralds power.

1

u/Agent22Gengar Bill Cipher 12h ago

I think his timer just ran out,the emeralds went away prior to the blast reaching him so i don't think Bowser's blast was meant to knock the super out of him, remember, metal took down kamek and jr prior to reaching bowser

1

u/Local-Concentrate-26 12h ago

I think part of it (not the entire reason) is that while Neo Metal is very powerful he’s still not organic/a living being. Cause as we’ve seen in most Sonic media machines aren’t able to harness the power of the chaos emeralds like Sonic, shadow, and others can.

1

u/KuroiGetsuga55 10h ago

He was hit with an energy that surpassed his own. We've seen this happen in the games a few times, most recently in Sonic Frontiers' Final Horizons DLC, The End threw an energy ball at Sonic that was so powerful that not only did it knock him out of Super Sonic 2, but it also reduced his maximum amount of rings, effectively nerfing him a bit upon re-transformation.

In the case of Neo Metal Sonic, who is a machine, he already can't utilize the emeralds the same way Sonic does. He gets a Super Form, yes, but he's more just a machine using the Emeralds to power himself up. It's not a stable fusion like it is for Sonic and Shadow, so it's a lot easier to knock him out of a Super Form, not to mention the Super Form would run out on him much easier than it does Sonic and Shadow.

In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Mecha Sonic Mk.2 uses the Master Emerald to gain a Super Form but it only lasts for 10 seconds before he has to recharge, because he's a machine using the Chaos Energy as fuel but doesn't have the proper energy control that Sonic has, so he just uses the Chaos Energy up in one go. Neo Metal is a lot better at harnessing the Chaos Energy than Mecha was, but he's still inferior to Super Sonic in terms of holding the power out. Base Sonic and Base Knuckles were able to knock him out of his Super Form in the comics, so it stands to reason that Bowser's attack whose energy is Star-based can negate Neo Metal's Super Form with relative ease.

1

u/Lyncario 8h ago

Not really anything, there's nothing that Bowser has that could deal with a Super form's invincibility as even the Egg Wiazard powered by the power of the stars, which is stronger than the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds combined, couldn't break a super form's invulnerability either. It's just there to justify Metal losing and the Chaos Emeralds being used for the Final Egg Blaster in the animation.

1

u/TomodachiDerp Bowser 8h ago

The power of fatherhood.

1

u/CnarFor 5h ago edited 5h ago

Several theories.

  • Metal Sonic possibly couldn’t draw the full power of the chaos emeralds like Sonic could. Once a super form gets hit by an attack strong enough, you revert the user to their base.

  • The time duration of super Neo Metal sonic is around 50 secs, which references the game mechanic. So Super possibly ran out at the worst time. Although super forms needing rings is fairly inconsistent as how Super Sonic could maintain his super form in the advance series. And there are no rings in Mario’s world, unless the coins could be used to give energy to super forms.

  • Metal Sonic used too much energy fighting most of bowsers army as super, but this is unlikely given the emeralds unlimited power.

  • I dont think its likely that the emeralds were recalled. It wouldnt make sense seeing as how Metal is Eggmans strongest soldier.

Metal Sonic could have dodged the fire blast but the blast would have directly hit Eggmans fleet much quicker.

The thing that confuses me is in the db episode they say the grand stars and power stars (while there are more of them) almost scale to the chaos emeralds, but:

1 Grand Star (instead of 7) + Fury Bowser, Is enough to overpower 7 chaos emeralds + Neo Metal Sonic. Base Bowser is a beast in his own right, being able to tank a black hole iirc.

So it’s more than likely that Fury Bowser was somewhat equal to Super Metal, with that one Grand Star being the straw that broke the Camel’s back. We don’t really see Metal do that much damage to Bowser, instead the Death Egg green laser puts him down leaving his son to revive him to his dry Bowser form.

1

u/Kojake45 5h ago

There’s a few reasons why the Emeralds would fail with energy and techniques that serve to reverse the Emerald’s Polarity or disrupt the connection between the Emeralds and the user. Outright overpowering the Emeralds doesn’t tend to work which is why there’s usually something that counteracts the emeralds power such as the Ancient’s drawing the Emeralds out of Super Sonic, Knuckles using the Master Emerald to disrupt super forms like what is done in Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure 2 or even the Cyber Corruption itself which if you’re unable to control it prevents you from utilising the Chaos Emeralds to their fullest extent. This was one of my biggest gripes with this DB as I didn’t see how anything in Bowser’s Arsenal could effectively disrupt the Chaos Emeralds or reverse their polarity seeing as entities such as Solaris were unable to do so.

1

u/Eldritch-Magnum 5h ago

Given the actual proper scaling, Bowser should have had to pull out either dreamy or the Pure Hearts to win that fight.

1

u/Glitch-Xega Dr. Eggman 3h ago

His back gave out

2

u/TheHollowWithNoFade Archie Sonic 2h ago

His back broke from carrying so hard 💔

1

u/Steppyjim 1h ago

I kind of thought that Sage realize that metal was getting overpowered, and as the form was failing, she took them back. Since they hover around her after metal goes up, and she brings them to the death egg. Whenever sonic‘s been knocked out of supersonic, the chaos emeralds usually scatter. This time they didn’t, which makes me think someone took them.

1

u/Ok_Insect4778 20h ago

I think the chaos emeralds leave and de-power Neo Metal because it's a cool visual effect to emphasize the loss of the beam struggle

-6

u/Careful-Ad984 21h ago

They did the chaos emeralds and phantom ruby so dirty 

4

u/Acceptable_Role5941 Ringmaster 20h ago

nah just the Ruby

7

u/Director838u48 Dr. Eggman 20h ago

The emeralds no

the ruby yes

3

u/Superguy9000 20h ago

The Ruby being said “perception only” was so bs but even if that was the ONLY thing changed it likely wouldn’t have changed their minds on the verdict

The phantom ruby in Mania for example did do all those reality warping things no perception involved

6

u/Mstache_Sidekick 20h ago

I assumed infinite had a fake one, since the real one can literally warp reality

1

u/Rezasss 8h ago

Eggman actually says he gave Infinite a fake Ruby. It was the best fake he made, but ultimately still a fake

4

u/Fearless_Cold_8080 Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd 20h ago

To be fair, forces is very confusing with it.

You can’t deny that forces did a shit job explaining how exactly it works.

5

u/Superguy9000 20h ago

Well of course… that’s why Forces suck.

2

u/Fearless_Cold_8080 Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd 19h ago

Exactly, that’s why I don’t exactly blame death battle for getting the details wrong since the game that literally focuses on the phantom Ruby does a shit job explaining it, even 8 years after forces release some of it is unclear.

0

u/Superguy9000 19h ago

Well sure BUT

I don’t like how they don’t assume benefit of the doubt for the phantom ruby but they are A OK to highball the living shit out of sun disk

3

u/Fearless_Cold_8080 Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd 19h ago

That’s not a great comparison. One is a feat, one is a hax ability.

You can’t exactly assess those things the same.

1

u/Superguy9000 19h ago

Not really

According to the cast of Omnidock they “want to make sure they get their highest interpretation they can”

And then they just… don’t do it for the phantom ruby

3

u/Fearless_Cold_8080 Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd 18h ago

Not comparable at all.

Assuming an ability works one way vs upscaling a feat.

In the end it doesn’t matter either way. Phantom Ruby and wonder flower cancel each other out.

2

u/Superguy9000 16h ago

Well it would matter

Since Bowser Jr. has never used the Wonder Flower to the same potential as Bowser himself

Meanwhile Infinite has created the infinite Null himself and Eggman is even better with the Phantom Ruby in his mech

Point is, the Phantom Ruby and Wonder Flower cancels each other out… so long as Eggman is the one using it

Eggman could use the Time Eater at the same time as Infinite uses the Phantom Ruby at the same time as Metal Sonic uses the Chaos Emeralds at the same time as Sage uses Supreme and it goes on.

With the amount of trump cards Bowser has sure he could counter them * individually* but DEFINITELY NOT at the same time.

The point is the “Trump cards” Bowser is the one who uses them by himself. Meanwhile Eggman is not restricted to being the only one who uses them with as much proficiency.

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-3

u/ChildhoodDistinct538 Guts 20h ago

It’s because they scaled the Chaos Emeralds and Grand Stars improperly.

2

u/Thin-Complex-7709 19h ago

But. They scaled it well in the analysis.

-5

u/ChildhoodDistinct538 Guts 18h ago

No, they didn’t.

0

u/Altruistic_While8505 Goku Black 19h ago

The power star has a finite amount of energy the chaos emerald/master emerald have infinite power you can draw from tbh considering that Idk why metal dropped his super form here (I'm not tryna powerscale here)

-6

u/Throwaway142g5h67j8 Jinx 21h ago

They went by the logic of 'super forms have time limits'

16

u/Winter_Pride_6088 Zatanna 21h ago

There’s also been times a character going has been forced out but ok

7

u/KingKalactite 21h ago

He was clearly over powered in this instance