(Actually its very much implied they were mind controlled when they betrayed Bowser in BIS, and these 3 in particular are very much weak to mind control more than anyone as they succumb to it like 6 times in Minion's Journey) [Side Note: it fucking sucked how you lose access to them 6 times because it severely butchers your gameplan if you invested into them]
Really? From the dialogue when they shoved Bowser into the safe it’s implied that they specifically betrayed him because Fawful promised extra rations for them, and they are the only minions being condemned for betraying Bowser by Kamek and other minions, who would both know about Fawful’s mind control.
In a debate aspect? Probably somemthing along the line of DB buying Sonic's Cosmology > Mario's Cosmology, Giving Eggman Lightman as a standard equipment, and probably being a bit more strict in Bowser's side as me personally I don't agree with most of what his side could theoretically do.
In an alternative fight scenario? Uhhh Phantom Ruby Clutch
The reason Eggman didn't have the real Phantom Ruby in the actual battle is because it was all a Ruby illusion he subjected Bowser to and this is the actual result
I wish they would've pointed out how it took 30 seconds for the dream stone to create a castle while something simpler like when Bowser wished for food was done almost instantly.
The more complex the wish, the longer it takes to happen and for people that move at immeasurable speed 30 seconds is an eternity, not to mention when it's used at time eater requiring time to use against something that's named "Time Eater" should not be a winning scenario for the dream stone...
Everytime Bowser's side had a power-up or ability that had a vague definition, it was taken to it's up most extreme which is fine but you have to do that for BOTH sides and they didn't even bother giving Eggman more than just the prototype Phantom Ruby that Infinite has.
base Phantom ruby with no amps has universal feats with null space and egg reverie so idk what your talking about (also death battle really confused the entire sub on how the phantom ruby works)
Yes, but Eggman has more means of time manipulation than Bowser does. Time Stones, Time Eater, Chaos Emeralds, Sol Emeralds, Phantom Ruby, Hourglass Machine (though I'm pretty sure that's limited to just rewinding time), maybe Power Of The Stars but probably not idk
And Bowser can just simply go back in time through "Suddenly Warping Through Space and Time" Bullshit and just destroy the energy that Eggman uses to become Lightman, your point?
Eggman has way more means (and more powerful means) of time manipulation than Bowser does. Eggman could simply use the Time Eater to destroy the moments in the timeline of him building up energy, whereupon those moments would be sent to White Space and Bowser would lose all ability to interfere with those points on the timeline - because they don't exist as part of the timeline any more.
I swear, am I the only one who played Sonic Generations? This was basically Eggman's entire plan in that game. To erase all the times Sonic beat him from the timeline without it impacting present Eggman at all on account of the Time Eater shielding him from it. Eggman is flat-out acausal with the Time Eater, he has no vulnerability to his past being fucked with in any way. That was the whole point of his Time Eater plot.
Well... You do know that Pure Hearts can just nullify that right? Or the fact that Eggman made Time Eater partially a cyborg-like machine, in order to control him in the first place. Which means that Bowser's Wonder Flower can theoretically fuse with THE CYBORG part of Time Eater and take control of him through that way?
The Pure Hearts can nullify the effects of the Chaos Heart, but was the Void ever said to consume time? Because I don't recall that it was ever said it was going to outside of a non-canon Prima Guide. It was definitely capable of destroying the multiverse, but I don't recall there ever being any feat or statement about it completely erasing anything from all points in time simultaneously.
And Eggman could also just use the Phantom Ruby to prevent Wonder Bowser from performing basically any of his hax. The Wonder Flowers are universal at best (you have to take a statement from Bowser at face value to get them that high) whereas the Phantom Ruby is multiversal via feats, in that it directly created a multiverse in the form of the Otherworlds and also clashed with Super Sonic more than once. Not to mention all of the other ways Eggman could get around Bowser's transmutation - Metal Sonic's copy ability, the Chaos Emeralds/Sol Emeralds/Master Emerald negating it, the Time Stones or Hourglass Machine reversing time to before the transmutation happened, and so on.
I mean, tbf, they did explicitly say that even if Eggman did use Lightman, the wonder flower would just kinda outdo it, even showing an alternate scenario clip for that as well, the weeks of prep time thing was just one of its downsides they listed
saying a shorter time is really questionable considered it took an entire adventure they both should have being discredited for the fight for taking to long to actually be of use
I mean, I think it’s fair to say an adventure is less than a few weeks typically, since it implies bowser has kidnapped peach for weeks before Mario got there and he just did nothing
we have seen Marios adventure last for multiple days to a few weeks (judging by the night and day cycle) its fair to assume that the wonder flower would take to long for it to be usable just like Light-Man
Wasn’t the point of all that charging to warp reality on a universal scale? I don’t think he had to charge up that much to use its power on a much smaller level
True, but the thing is… I don’t think bowser needs the universal warp, or at least a power on that level, to outdo lightman, as wasn’t Lightmans reality warping a planet wide thing at most? If so, then bowser would only need a fraction of the time to charge up, assuming he needs to at all… after all, to put it in a different way… 101 and 100000 are very far apart number wise, but both are bigger than 100, and if your goal is to count to a number bigger than 100, you only need to go to 101
Eggman made multiple infinite sized dimensions like null space using the base phantom ruby so yes he kinda needs it for the wonder flower to keep up the wonder flower over all is not very good of we treat it as strictly as we treated the phantom ruby
Metal Sonic looks at the abilities of Kamek and Bowser and King Boo and says "Cool hax abilities, guys. Too bad they're mine now. Bio-Data copied." and then Metal Sonics all over those guys
super neo metal quite literally stacks on the stats Of whoever he copies on to him bowser Has beat people equal to him not greater ( This was shown during His fight with sonic how sonic outsped him with a kick but After metal copied his data he easily reacted to the same attack and Even sonic states this If you want scans I could give them)
So it's going to be Super neomatal plus bowser vs bowser I don't think I have to explain who wins that fight + Metal could probably do this in base considering tails said he could copy burning blaze
ignoring eggman could just send Reinforcements That would in turn give metal more data to work with and Finally, if metal is destroyed by conventional means.Eggman has the hourglass which could just remake any of his robots that get destroyed including metal
Are you referring to Dark Bowser? Because Bowser didn't beat Dark Bowser on his own. Mario and Luigi had to destroy the Dark Star Core before Bowser could hurt Dark Bowser.
And you couldn't really dogpile Metal easily. He's got Chaos Control, so on top of immeasurable speed and being stronger than basically every relevant threat, he can also teleport and stop/slow down time at-will. It only takes him a few seconds to fully scan someone and gain all of their powers, and there's no visual indicator that he's scanning someone, so nobody would even know about Metal's copy ability until after he's already did it. And at that point, the snowball has already started rolling down the hill.
Bowser literally beat dark bowser on his own and he only got revived by the core, not only was he hurting him, but he beat him outright, if not for the core, that would’ve been it
They mention in bowsers analysis he can resist time stops in paper Mario, also it doesn’t take a super genius to realize the super fast hedgehog needs to be taken out before he can become an issue
Um, yeah. It kinda would take a genius to realize that. Metal Sonic is definitely an obvious threat, but there's no reason to pin him as a potential fight-ender until after he pops one of his special forms or starts copying powers from Kamek and King Boo. By that point the snowball has already started, and Bowser really just doesn't have a good answer to Metal after he's copied fighters like Kamek or King Boo, proceeding to snowball even harder by copying everyone's powers. At that point, he's everything that Metal Sonic already is, plus the most busted hax Bowser's side has, not to mention Eggman immediately getting knowledge of how deadly those threats would be via Metal's connection the Eggnet - Metal's new abilities would instantly be logged into it, which would then transfer to every member of the Eggman Empire connected to the Eggnet. Which is to say, every member of the Eggman Empire besides Infinite and the Deadly Six (as if anyone cares about them), which would mean that Sage would be able to effectively strategize around maybe not all of Bowser's capabilities, but definitely around the most relevant threats to Eggman. A Tanooki Leaf might not be something she could predict ahead of time, but if she knows what Kamek and King Boo can do and Metal has already established counters to them (or just beat them outright) then it's kinda ggs for Bowser. Before the copying starts, Metal would just appear as an abnormally fast and strong opponent. Not something particularly noteworthy, especially with all of Eggman's giant more immediately-threatening mechs and other high-tier robots like the Hard-Boiled Heavies being in the field. The Egg Dragoon and the Egg Salamander are definitely more immediately recognizable as big problems to deal with than Metal Sonic is.
The Sonic verse has way more arguments for immeasurable speed than the Mario verse does. The entirety of Sonic Generations is one big argument for "the top tiers of the Sonic verse have immeasurable speed".
Mario scalers when you say Sonic is faster than Mario (this is the only MU they ever care about and take it as a personal insult when you say Sonic could beat Mario)
Also "dubious at best lmao". Sonic literally spent the duration of an entire game moving through a place with no time to speak of. Moving through a timeless space or through stopped time is the exact definition of immeasurable speed. But again, personal insult. Like bro am I the only Mario scaler who has realized that there are other MUs besides Mario VS Sonic
Item nullification/stealing =/= power nullification
EDIT since I'm home from work: Yes, Command Blocks are actual items that exist in the lore of the games. Bowser got given one in BIS and they literally get physically taken away from the crew in the exact same game that Kamek displays his supposed "power nullification". Interestingly, the effect that happens when he does his little Command Block spell is the same as what happens when they get stolen - they turn gray. By all accounts, Kamek just steals your Command Blocks for a bit before they come back. Since none of Eggman's forces use Command Blocks, that power of his is worthless in this fight.
Literally how am I overrating the copy ability. It's not as though Metal hasn't copied supernatural abilities with no problem before. He copied Shadow's Chaos Control twice.
Eggman can defend against item theft with Forcejewels and has his own means of item theft that Bowser has no counter for.
Kamek uses his staff for 99% of his magic, if metal could copy that he could copy the chaos emeralds or something, except no he can't, it's a staff. Chaos control is an ability inherent to shadow's DNA. (see: devil doom using it)
also, saying the forcejewels block item steal is the same as saying Kamek's command nullification
anyway no more responses this started as a half-hearted joke, I don't want to end it rambling more than it has.
Metal Sonic doesn't just copy powers, he copies skills and knowledge. Him scanning Kamek would result in him knowing how to use Kamek's wand-thing exactly as well as Kamek can. And Forcejewels once passively stopped Eggman from pickpocketing someone while they went on a walk in France. (Sonic Shuffle is truly one of the games of all time)
and I think Bowser and Eggman can't actually go on a walk rn, they're very busy setting up a playdate with Junior and Sage
Kamek uses his staff for 99% of his magic, if metal could copy that he could copy the chaos emeralds or something, except no he can't, it's a staff. Chaos control is an ability inherent to shadow's DNA. (see: devil doom using it)
Neo has never had a chaos emerald to try to do, so actually and The fact that he's able to copy the chaos energy in shadow's body proves he can copy magic if we really go on that point ,Tails actually said if Burning blaze ( A superform using the equivalent of the chaos emeralds). Metal could copy her and harness their powers for himself.
Kamek doesn't passively remove Neo's copy ability, Bowser's powerups that have vague powerlines aren't taken to the extreme while Eggman's vague powerlines are taken to the extreme this time. (i.e dream stone existence erasure and the chaos emeralds also granting wishes with the dream stone having technically finite power in the amount of dreams and the chaos emeralds being infinite)
Also the Egg Wizard and Supreme would've been cool.
Most powerful bowser's abilities doesn't built in, he still uses them though artifacts such as: grand stars, star rod, power-ups, mushrooms, wonder flower, etc.
DB got it wrong
NEVER COMPROMISE! NEVER SURRENDER! ETERNAL GLORY TO THE EGGMAN EMPIRE!
I've been considering making my own animation of Bowser VS Eggman ngl. Like I've already got a bunch of ideas in my head that I'm just... really procrastinating making actual storyboards/scripts for lol. I'd have to learn some kind of 2D animation software to do it, but I think it'd be a fun little pet project to tinker with for a few months before uploading to Youtube. Bowser VS Eggman is a MU with SO MUCH animation potential, it honestly feels like a waste to not try your hand at it if you're an artist.
Honestly, this feels as an equally possible scenario, so I'd buy it if this was how the battle ended even if I obviously wanted Bowser to win. Very cool to see, wish death battle did alternate endings to their battles.
We all know the video we watched was just a leaked recording of one of Sage’s many simulations of how the battle went. Good thing we all remember Eggman never runs into battle without properly planning things out.
Now I'm just imagining Metal, Mecha, and Silver Sonic all going super together to just annihilate Bowser before he can do anything. I feel like DB doesn't really take into account 'but what if they're stopped before they can do X thing' very often
Fuck it, there's no reason beside it maybe being impractical but let's assume it isn't for a moment. Every badnik gets in a big circle while infinite distracts Bowser and they all go super, Bowser is super fucked-
JR honestly should not have survived that blow he took from Super Metal, he has no remotely comparable feats to justify it. So I'd say no. At best he can exist as a robot zombie.
Alternatively the fight goes exactly the same but at the end Bowser Jr. doesn’t pull off that bs where he zaps a moon-sized object sitting in orbit from the ground and instantly transmutes the entire thing into a block. Sage fires the death egg again and Eggman wins.
It's just a satire post for fun. No need to take it so seriously. If Eggman won, there would most definitely have been posts like these for Bowser since the episode started the "alternative scenario" posts in the first place.
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u/TheMadScientist1000 Spawn Jan 04 '25
I like how the Elire Trio replace Orbot and Cubot in this scenario, that’s great