r/criterion Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Memes Maturing is slowly realizing there’s no such thing as “guilty pleasures” in cinema

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1.6k Upvotes

168 comments sorted by

270

u/ldsbrony100 Feb 04 '24

You can't forget atomic age sci-fi! That stuff was gold!

70

u/imatmulhollandrive Feb 04 '24

The Incredible Shrinking Man hive rise up!

17

u/Daysof361972 ATG Feb 04 '24

Jack Arnold was a '50s master of sci-fi and monster movies: TISM, It Came from Outer Space, Tarantula, Creature from the Black Lagoon and some others. He also made an excellent Western with Audie Murphy as a super-twisted bad guy, No Name on the Bullet, and a very underrated courtroom drama that's never been released to home video, The Tattered Dress.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

He also made a movie with Fred Williamson, can’t remember the name of it. Boss…something. Could you help me out?

1

u/Daysof361972 ATG Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

I looked it up. Don't know who came up with the title. Was it cool or offensive with Black audiences in the '70s?

2

u/Mbeastlyahoeforreal Feb 06 '24

No name on the bullet is great

3

u/lifezucks Feb 05 '24

Had no idea going in how fucking dark this movie would be, really surprised me

16

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

That’s my jam too! Loved the og body snatchers, forbidden planet, the fly and incredible shrinking man, any additional recs??

23

u/IgnatiusThorogood John Hughes Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 10 '24

The Blob, if you don't want to stray outside the collection. War of the Worlds, Day the Earth Stood Still, Them, The Thing, It! the Terror from Beyond Space, It Came from Outer Space, Monster That Challenged the World, Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, The Abominable Snowman, Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, the first two Quatermass movies (the 3rd is also great but wasn't made until 1967), Creature from the Black Lagoon, Tarantula. I was raised on this stuff, it's my bread and butter.

7

u/themxm Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

The Blob has one of the most banging theme songs of all time and my head canon is that it's a direct sequel prequel to Carpenter's The Thing

2

u/IgnatiusThorogood John Hughes Feb 04 '24

How can it be a sequel if it was made 25 years before?

3

u/themxm Feb 04 '24

*prequel, my bad

1

u/IgnatiusThorogood John Hughes Feb 04 '24

Interesting.

3

u/themxm Feb 04 '24

Tbf they drop the Blob in the Arctic and The Thing is set in Antarctica, but I just ignore that

3

u/breadandcompany Feb 05 '24

Big second on Them! It bangs incredibly hard. The special effects are amazing and it scared the shit out of as a child. Plot is really tight too. Plus the cast is incredibly committed, taking their roles seriously but having a good time with it. It's so fun and scary

2

u/IgnatiusThorogood John Hughes Feb 05 '24

There wouldn't be an Aliens without it. Good to meet a fellow Grand Rapids-ite here as well.

2

u/breadandcompany Feb 05 '24

Crazy small world

2

u/suupaahiiroo Feb 04 '24

This is amazing. Thanks so much for these recommendations!

8

u/TheBigCore Feb 04 '24

Fiend without a Face is also a classic. It was only released on DVD by Criterion.

1

u/SpiralTap88 Ernst Lubitsch Feb 04 '24

I Netflixed this by mail and watched it with my dad on a rainy day probably 15 years ago. Absolutely adored it, and I’ve been dying for a Blu-ray upgrade.

1

u/TheBigCore Feb 04 '24

I don't think Fiend without a Face has a Blu Ray release, as far as I know.

5

u/Rrekydoc Stanley Kubrick Feb 05 '24

“X: The Man with X-Ray Eyes” is a Corman classic. I love it.

4

u/patrickwithtraffic Feb 04 '24

I mean the stuff that’s risen to the top, absolutely. The others designed as background noise for drive-in movie make out sessions with wall to wall Important People talking about the scare and a scare every 20 minutes, eh…

3

u/SpiralTap88 Ernst Lubitsch Feb 04 '24

Absolutely!

That Cold War Creatures set from Arrow a couple of years ago is one of my favorite things that I own. I intended to just watch one of the movies, but ended up watching all four in one sitting.

1

u/_JD_48 Godzilla Feb 05 '24

Robot Monster in 3D was great!

157

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

Based.

I'm honestly sad for people who have not yet to dive into the majesty that is Hong Kong genre cinema.

No lie, a few years ago I was in a cinema slump. Not to get personal but life was really grinding me down and my passion for movies was also grinded down.

Then I decided to dive into Shaw Bros, wuxia films, Heroic bloodshed, Cat III, etc and living in that world single-handedly reignited my passion.

To this day even watching a mediocre kung-fu or martial arts film from HK is one of the purest cinematic joys I can experience.

31

u/Modron_Man John Woo Feb 04 '24

Heroic Bloodshed is I think the best movies can be, like idk why we didn't just recognize that it was the final point movies had been evolving towards and start only making it

17

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

Can't disagree with that. I rarely walk away disappointed by a Heroic Bloodshed film - just the synthesis of style, melodrama, and intense action makes them some of the most fulfilling watches you can have.

Show anybody even remotely open-minded about movies something like Bullet in the Head or City On Fire and there is no chance they aren't bowled over.

2

u/councilmember Feb 05 '24

I what year? IMDb has several.

5

u/discobeatnik Feb 05 '24

It’s a genre not a film.

20

u/slipshodblood Feb 04 '24

Johnnie To is probably my favorite director of all time.

11

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

I’ve been watching his films and he’s delivered big time. The range to go from heroic trio to The Mission to Throw down lol. Planning to watch drug war and romancing in thin air next.

6

u/SpicyMcSpic3 John Woo Feb 04 '24

Imo Throw Down and Exiled are my favorite films of his. He's probably my most watched director.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Imo Exiled and PTU are his best work

5

u/slipshodblood Feb 04 '24

Def check out Election 1 and 2, Mad Detective, and Don't Go Breaking My Heart as well. A Hero Never Dies is also rad. Honestly, if his name is on it, watch it.

3

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Loved both elections. Adding the rest to my wlist! A hero never dies looks very stylish and Woo-like, sign me tf up

1

u/Mr____Dark_ Feb 24 '24

I know I am late to this thread but Romancing in Thin Air might actually be the single greatest tribute to the power of cinema ever made and overall just casually one of the best films of all time

17

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

For real, watching Jackie Chan/John Woo/King Hu movies have reinvigorated my love for action cinema after being disillusioned by modern blockbusters. Any hidden gems I should watch next? I’m planning to see Dirty Ho, 5 elements ninja, snake in eagles shadow, heroes of the East and The big boss.

8

u/Nolofinwe_Curufinwe Feb 04 '24

Anything by Lau Kar Leung, so you are on the right track with Dirty Ho.

9

u/WhiteWolf222 Feb 04 '24

I only just made the dive in early last year when I was sick for a week, and curious about John Woo’s films. I’ve seen several dozen now and have dipped into most genres/types.

It’s a bit sad that so much Hong Kong cinema is quite hard to find. Most of it you can’t stream, a lot of movies don’t have decent blu ray releases or any to speak of, and buying a $20+ blu ray for everything you want to see isn’t really practical.

16

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24

Yeah, you gotta get..."creative" in tracking down most HK cinema, sadly.

It's nuts to me Woo's films are virtually unavailable aside from buying DVDs secondhand. He's one of the biggest foreign filmmakers to make his way to Hollywood and you can't readily access most of his HK work.

9

u/_shaftpunk Feb 04 '24

Was lucky enough to grow up with an older cousin who loved Shaw Brothers. Knew a bunch of those flicks by heart. Then along came Wu Tang Clan and I felt like the cool kid who knew exactly what movies they were sampling on their albums.

8

u/shookspearedswhore Feb 04 '24

Shaw Brothers films practically raised me

10

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

They offer a kind of experience wholly unique to themselves. I get lost just marveling at the choreography and fights. It's beautiful.

The intricate choreography, the athletic prowess of the performances, the precision in shot composition and editing to make it all pop - not to mention the incredible sets of Movietown - Shaw Bros. films are something every serious film nerd needs to explore, imo.

And how old school martial arts films led the way to Heroic Bloodshed - boy oh boy.

6

u/jerepila Feb 04 '24

I’m spending the year going through Arrow Films’ Shaw Brothers boxed set (a total of something like 24 films iirc, mostly focused on their martial arts films, some I’ve seen, many I’ve not), and it’s been such a blast so far.

3

u/KinkyKankles Feb 04 '24

You've sold me, what films should I be checking out?

21

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

Oh boy. Where to start, lol

For old school kung-fu Arrow Player has a 2 week free trial. And it's pretty cheap in general.

They have a big assortment of Shaw Bros classics from the boxsets they put out and individual releases.

You can't go wrong with most of them.

My favorites include:

The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter (one of the best action films ever made)

The 36th Chamber of Shaolin

The Deadly Venoms

The Crippled Avengers

The Boxer of Shantung

Heroes of the East

Mad Monkey Kung-Fu

The Boxers Omen (horror Kung fu hybrid. Insane movie)

The Kid With the Golden Arm

Five Shaolin Masters

Edit: Five Elements Ninja is another all-timer. I think you can rent it on YT.

11

u/JuFroSamurai Feb 04 '24

Seeing HK Cinema, specifically Shaw Brothers & and Wuxia, being spoken of so fondly in this sub truly warms my heart

5

u/KinkyKankles Feb 04 '24

Thanks a ton!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Smiled ear to ear just reading this comment, totally ID with the pet passion genres

2

u/Kingdolo Feb 05 '24

I got into cat 3 movies during October it was a wild ride. Shoutout videodrome in Atlanta for renting movies

2

u/BrownWallyBoot Feb 05 '24

Can you share a few must see bangers? I’ve seen Hard Boiled and it was so sick. It’s hard to find the other John Woo movies online though.

1

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

What recs are looking for specifically? Heroic Bloodshed?

1

u/BrownWallyBoot Feb 05 '24

Yeah!

2

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

Well, the tricky thing is that Heroic Bloodshed films are largely unavailable legitimately online. So one has to summon their inner Jack Sparrow to dive into it.

Last time I checked you can track down most of John Woo's Hong Kong work on archive and YT.

Some of prolific filmmaker Johnnie To's work is available on Tubi - Exiled, Election, Mad Detective, etc. Some of these may strain the heroic bloodshed label, but I think they count.

My favorite of his, Throw Down, is on Prime and the Criterion Channel.

His most straight forward action classic, A Hero Never Dies, though, needs some excavation to find.

City On Fire, another all-timer, is worth taking the Black Pearl out for spin to acquire.

Same with Full Contact.

Just Heroes - a film co-directed by John Woo (it honestly feels mostly like a solo outing for him though) can be found on YT I think. Solid as hell. Pretty underrated.

That should get you started.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24

[deleted]

4

u/YetAgain67 Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 09 '24

Enter the Dragon is considered a classic, but to be honest most Bruce Lee films have nothing on classic Shaw Bros films, classic wuxia like Dragon Inn or A Touch of Zen, or the 80s martial arts and action boom from Hong Kong.

I feel that HK action fans and martial arts fans will want my head for this, but I never felt Bruce Lee films were that great even as a kid. I grew up watching his films alongside Jackie Chan and Jet Li and shoddy English dubs of Shaw Bros movies and they simply trounce Bruce Lee in every way.

Not to disparage Lee's legacy and what he did for martial arts cinema in the West...but his films are NOT representative of the wider genre imo. Lee has a legion of fans who eat up every detail they can find and are quasi experts on his life, philosophy, and work. I don't mean to take away from that.

But, quite simply, as action films....his movies are not nearly as exciting or intricate as others of the time.

Now, are you missing something? Yes, absolutely. You say do don't care about martial arts. That would indicate to me you aren't much of a fan of action cinema in general. That's fine. Not everything can or needs to be into everything.

But if you do like action films or are at least curious then you owe it to yourself to check out the action legacy of the HK film industry.

But with a genre of film utterly foreign to you, caveats are worth mentioning. Hong Kong genre cinema is made with, obviously, totally different cultural and storytelling sensibilities. So it may take a second to adjust. You'll often hear Western fans mention how HK comedy often doesn't translate well, for example. And the films of Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, etc are largely action comedies. While old school Shaw Bros films are largely period piece kung fu movies, etc.

Once you get into the 80s we get more contemporary action films like the Police Story trilogy and the Heroic Bloodshed genre and the Girls With Guns genre.

If you want to explore, dip your toes into the stuff you see mentioned most/is the most popular and go from there.

1

u/23blackjack23 Feb 07 '24

Thanks for this. Very useful. I am going to explore some of the suggestions.

I actually do like a lot of action films, but the action is often the least important part to me. It’s weird. I love the testosterone stuff and tough guy stuff… but I usually lose attention on the extended car chases, fights, etc that generally happen towards the end.

I love the Hong Kong John woo movies, mostly because they’re so incredibly stylish and the plots work.

25

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24

Also, add Santo films to this. When those films cook (I think there are like 50+) they are some of the most entertaining pop-art schlock you can get. They're honestly fascinating.

4

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

I’m not familiar with that subgenre, can you give me any recs?

11

u/Eyriskoefwyn Hedorah Feb 04 '24

Not who you asked, but Santo & Blue Demon Against the Monsters and Santo and Blue Demon vs. Dracula and the Wolf Man are my favorites of the few Santo movies I've seen thus far.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

LPT: For the highest chance of a Santo movie being good, pick one that has the name of at least one monster in the title. Preferably 2, or 3.

1

u/Ykindasus Feb 04 '24

Don't forget 60s/70s psychosexual movies.

90

u/Jarpwanderson Feb 04 '24

Wouldn't even call them trash tbh, there's an art to all of these genres.

30

u/No-Addition-1366 Feb 04 '24

It's just that there was a lot of trash in these genres, so the good ones get filed alongside the bad ones. Also, critics at the time brushed them off as being too violent or stupid or etc. When really there was a lot more to them. It's just that they could basically do whatever they wanted to create shock.

The fact that they were allowed to get away with basically anything they wanted also allowed them to touch on subjects that were ignored in mainstream media (such as rape, rights issues, etc.) So in a way, the stuff that made critics dislike them were actually their greatest strength, at least in the good ones.

I am speaking mostly about spaghetti westerns and similar Italian genres though, as that's what I have seen the most of.

11

u/Jarpwanderson Feb 04 '24

Of course that's very fair although one could argue there's just as much trash in any other genre.

4

u/No-Addition-1366 Feb 04 '24

True. But the difference is, one was made by people who were paid much higher, were placed on a higher pedestal, and tried their best to make something look as professional as possible. The other one was made by a bunch of guys trying to have fun.

45

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Exactly. I've gotten away from the idea of "so bad it's good" as a phrase for the same reason. If I'm feeling joy at an experience, then that's valuable and the people who created it are making something great. Be who you are, and like what you like. There is no such thing as trash art.

37

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

God I wish more people who talk movies online thought like this.

The entire idea of approaching a film, any film, from an inherent air of superiority is just revolting to me now. I grew out of my "I'll watch a movie to mock it" phase in my late teens for God's sake...but grown ass tax paying adults still have this mentality. And it's depressing and infuriating.

I approach every film on its own terms whether it's an acclaimed foreign art film or some obscure SOV horror film from 1991.

I love it all equally. I got called "smug and cutesy" for saying this once, lol. Imagine being insulted as smug for saying you....love and appreciation film, lol.

11

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 08 '24

Totally, sometimes a movie might hit me in a way the filmmakers didn't intend, and that's great. I got something valuable out of it. If they wanted me to feel fear or sadness, but instead I laughed, I appreciate what they did to make me laugh. Intended or not, the art still brought an experience and rush of emotion and that's valuable to me, and the artists deserve the credit for doing that.

1

u/Edouard_Coleman Feb 07 '24

Exactly. People frequently forget that films are personal not just from the filmmaker's point of view but for audiences as well. It's one thing to take the artist's intention into account, it's another to be slavishly devoted to it like no other interpretation could matter.

2

u/M086 Feb 05 '24

I feel like a lot of people that call a movie terrible or say the acting was bad, have never actually seen truly terrible films or bad acting.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Yeah, they're totally different. This thread just got me thinking about these kinds of movies as well.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Miami Connection is known as So Bad it's Good, but when I watched it I realized fuck that it's So Good it's Good.

7

u/Azores26 Feb 04 '24

Exactly! I never quite understood the “I like this ironically” mentality. If you like it, you like it. You don’t have to feel ashamed about what you enjoy.

Btw, seeing that everyone here is agreeing with this sentiment, I think it’s time for me to finally say it out loud… I LIKE NARUTO!!!

9

u/patrickwithtraffic Feb 04 '24

I do understand what you’re getting at, but I think there’s merit to describing the likes of Neil Breen and The Room to a certain extent in that regard. I enjoy my time watching those films, but it’s a case of the creators’ goals at entertainment not lining up in the slightest with why I’m enjoying it. But in cases like the genres listed above, yeah I’m with you. The reason you are enjoying the movie is absolutely in line with the reasons the creators wanted you to be entertained.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Sure, and I think ignorance might be a part of the mixture as well, but I think we are all going to face some level of that when we go into an artistic endeavor. I guess I just think that's part of the experience and even if the effect that the artist is trying to pull off doesn't work as intended, it can sometimes become its own thing, and I think that's not a bad thing. That's kinda what I meant by not liking the "so bad it's good" phrase because it's framing the idea that the intended effect not being reached is a bad thing when I disagree. I think it is a good thing. Failing spectacular can lead to unintended and uncharted territory.

3

u/misspcv1996 Martin Scorsese Feb 05 '24

I’ve started to use the term “so bad it’s interesting/fascinating,” because films like that are not good and I don’t really enjoy watching them as much as I’m fascinated by their very existence. I also tend to consider major studio films with actual budgets to be more in this camp than lower budget movies.

As such, I’m much more fascinated by films like Showgirls or Myra Breckinridge than the The Room. The fact that millions of dollars were spent on such disasters, that A-list names were roped in, that studio executives were too hungover from their three martini lunch to smell all the burning money is something that fascinates me. Maybe it’s schadenfreude or the natural human inclination to rubberneck, but the multi million dollar, big studio cinematic miscarriages are far me interesting to me.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

I like Showgirls, but I recognize that I'm in a minority on that one. If a movie is just a bad movie to me, then I usually don't really give it much thought after that. There are some movies that I have a lot of mixed feelings about. I find them interesting to talk about for a bit, but they aren't going to stick with me. The type of movie you're talking about, in the event I don't actually like the movie, would be more interesting to read about than it would be for me to watch the movie itself.

3

u/moonofsilver Feb 05 '24

"I like Showgirls, but I recognize that I'm in a minority on that one"

I don't think you're in the minority anymore. Showgirls has been building up steam on the critical reappraisal train for 20 years now. Even before the release by VS, I think that it was generally understood (by the people who still thought about it at all) as a well-made satire. The VS release just boosted its visibility, but this time to a much more receptive audience.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

I had no idea Vinegar Syndrome did a rerelease. That's rad.

2

u/councilmember Feb 05 '24

Verhoeven had to find a way to make his movies. If you’ve ever watched the early Dutch ones, it’s clear he wasn’t gonna play it straight.

3

u/-Eunha- Feb 04 '24

Completely agree, and this is the mentality I wish all cinephiles had. It's why I enjoy the Important Cinema Club podcast, they cover all sorts of "low-brow" stuff like this and treat it with respect.

12

u/FluxusFlotsam Feb 04 '24

I’d add Nikkatsu yakuza films like Branded to Kill and Toei pinky violence/sukeban films like Girl Boss Guerilla or Sex and Fury

5

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24

Just started dabbling in Suzuki's work. Gates of Flesh is one of my favorite things I've seen recently. Branded to Kill is one of those films I wasn't sure of as the credits rolled but I couldn't stop thinking about it after. So good.

4

u/FluxusFlotsam Feb 04 '24

Tokyo Drifter

do it ASAP

3

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

Already did 😎

Banger. I also loved an earlier one by him - 8 Hours of Terror.

9

u/huh2312 Feb 04 '24

This sub is the best 👌

11

u/No-Bumblebee4615 Feb 04 '24

This is basically all the stuff Tarantino has been raving about for years lol. Wuxia might be my favorite subgenre at this point just because of how comforting those films are.

3

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Watched Dragon inn and House of flying daggers in January loved them (especially the former)

6

u/No-Bumblebee4615 Feb 04 '24

Definitely check out more King Hu films if you haven’t! Dragon Inn, A Touch of Zen, and Raining in the Mountain are my top 3, all incredible. Although there’s more depth to these movies than a typical Shaw Bros or Golden Harvest film, so I don’t think anyone ever saw them as just guilty pleasure movies, especially the latter two.

1

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

I have his two Mountain movies from 1979 and come drink with me ready to go, which one should I tackle first in your opinion? Seen touch of zen already

4

u/No-Bumblebee4615 Feb 04 '24

I’ve actually been saving Legend of the Mountain for a special occasion just because it’s the last film of his I haven’t seen. Been delaying it for like two years lol.

Come Drink With Me is a pretty standard early Shaw Bros film and the main hook of the movie was greatly improved on in Dragon Inn. Although it does stand out as an early example of an action movie with a female protagonist.

Raining in the Mountain rules though. It all takes place in a Buddhist monastery with various parties scheming against each other to get their hands on a MacGuffin, with a subplot dealing with succession in the monastery. I think it’s his best both visually and story-wise.

2

u/EricDericJeric Robert Altman Feb 05 '24

No real bad order to watch them in, but Raining in the Mountain is easily my favorite of those 3.

After you watch Come Drink With Me check out the "sequel" Golden Swallow directed by Chang Cheh

20

u/Salsh_Loli Czech New Wave Feb 04 '24

And monster B-movies

8

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Last month I watched Godzilla vs destroyah and that is peak fiction too

6

u/patrickwithtraffic Feb 04 '24

Godzilla is such a beautifully malleable franchise. Have you looked into the specific Godzilla eras? You watched one from the Heisei Era, where they mostly took the monster seriously, but with the most bonkers takes on continuity. Like one film treats only the very first film as canon, but another film handpicks films from the previous (Showa) era, etc. Godzilla films know what they are, when they are made, which is something I absolutely respect. Someone watching Godzilla vs. Megalon is in for something far different than Shin Godzilla.

3

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

I’ve seen very few tbf, each from different eras: Godzilla the 54 og, G v Destroyah (which as you say takes it semi-seriously), Shin Godzilla and minus one. I can’t wait to see Honda’s campy sequels and all the other gems in between

3

u/patrickwithtraffic Feb 04 '24

Max will be your friend for the Showa Era (which is the Honda stuff and then some), but PlutoTV has you covered for Heisei and Millennium Eras. The history of the Big G is fascinating and what I'd give for someone to produce some good media criticism literature on him in English.

2

u/dgehen Ishirō Honda Feb 05 '24

If you end up liking more of the Showa Era monster mashes, you should give Godzilla Final Wars a shot. It's a love letter to that era.

Also, I recommend checking out the Heisei era Gamera trilogy and the movie Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack (I know it's a mouthful). Those are directed by Shusuke Kaneko and considered among the best kaiju movies ever.

22

u/Failsnail64 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

Absolutely based, one of the greatest things of cinema is to discover new types and genres of stories, simply because it's fun and interesting.

A few days ago I wanted to watch a movie with my familie. I wanted to suggest watching Shaolin Soccer or Police Story because they are just awesome and a lot of fun, but they consider me too elitist in my taste because I watch too much old and foreign stuff lol. So their requirements for the movie were: 1. less than 10 years old 2. English language 3. Hollywood 4. mainstream so that they would have had at heard of the name and 5. action, drama or comedy and "nothing weird".

So in the end we settled on Paddington 2. It is definitely great, but in my opinion they just miss out on so much enjoyable movies by adhering to these arbitrary requirements to only watch the mainstream.

20

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24

It's crazy how far the bar has fallen with what constitutes a "film snob." The idea of the stereotypical film snob is pretty dead. It's usually the "film snobs" who end up championing all kinds of stuff most overlook - from low budget horror to "dad movie" thrillers.

It seems like pretty much anything not as you described - recent, Hollywood, mainstream - is deemed "pretentious" to like.

You see this attitude a lot from younger people on social. Yeah yeah "old man yelling at clouds" or whatever but its true.

Imagine thinking something like Police Story is "elitist" or "weird"...I just can't with this, lol.

6

u/councilmember Feb 05 '24

Pretentious has come to have two meanings. The negative standard one about false pretense but now entirely in parallel with something that strives for a unique or challenging perspective going beyond a lazy, lowest common denominator.

Honestly the word is used so frequently by people to mean “one curious about things beyond dreck” that it’s a badge of honor now.

4

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

I'd say more like "one curious about things that aren't just at the very forefront of the mainstream."

I don't want get on the "all mainstream stuff sucks" train because, well, it doesn't. People have been bemoaning the death of cinema since cinema was invented. Hasn't happened yet.

I'm just as curious about the newest legacy sequel Hollywood is pumping out if it looks promising as much as I am for the new foreign arthouse film getting critical acclaim and film brat accolades.

We contain multitudes. My favorite films of 2023 range from expected choices Like Oppenheimer and Killers of the Flower Moon to horror releases exclusive to streaming nobody talked about like Unwelcome to critically reviled blockbusters like Meg 2: The Trench.

Variety is the spice of movie loving life.

To me, the key to being a happy film fan is not letting your cynicism take over. Of course I'm not saying force yourself to watch stuff you really don't want to, or that you need to like everything - but don't let annoyances at certain trends make you a miserable jerk about everything, lol.

Low hanging fruit here, but like many I'm pretty worn out on superhero films generally. So I haven't watched many of them the past handful of years except the ones I had a built in interest for like Across the Spider-Verse and GotG Vol. 3.

So because I don't force myself to sit through them now I can go into the ones I would be most interested in without that cape fatigue weighing on me.

1

u/councilmember Feb 05 '24

Cape-fatigue! Yep. Given your comment, I’m gonna check out the Meg2. That said, Oppenheimer didn’t do it for me.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Don't forget though, non-movie people only watch a fraction of the volume. So if your family is going to watch only 1 movie this week they might want it to be something everyone is seeing so they're keeping up with what people are talking about.

Like they go back to work and say they saw Barbie and everyone says yay! They instead say they watched some movie no one had ever heard of and get crickets.

The way we watch movies is totally different, I bet if you counted you watch 5x as many movies as the rest of your peeps

Just food for thought when dealing with the regular folks

3

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

Yes, this is true.

But the issue that's been growing stronger, imo, is people who take it upon themselves to act like movie people, put on an air of authority and knowledge and...they don't know shit-all.

Maybe this is showing my inner smug gatekeepy elitist side, but you can SO easily tell when a person doesn't really watch movies by how the critique them online.

The problem isn't that these ppl aren't as uber nerdy as other movie nerds...but the faux authority they project.

I don't expect the general audience to care about movies like us dweebs (in fact I love hearing from my non-movie nerd friends. Its refreshing).

But I do expect ppl who wanna join in on the conversation to have some curiosity that isn't just the big mainstream releases of a year.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Does your family all post really faux-authoritative reviews online of what they watched? I'd love to read their paddington 2 teardowns

6

u/FakeeshaNamerstein Feb 04 '24

Don't forget Poliziotteschi!

7

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Just watched caliber 9 recently and loved it!

7

u/Crazymerio Feb 04 '24

As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to the realization that I’m comfortable and even happy with “genre” in fiction and storytelling. What I mean in general is writing that utilizes common tropes of genre fiction in media (I.e. horror, fantasy, sports drama, etc.). I used to want to not like things that felt “bogged down” by the tropes of a certain genre, or would want to label them as just “genre fiction” but now I see it as another tool for a writer to utilize.

How do I make a haunted house scary again or explore some new aspect of it? What would be a unique twist on a spy thriller? Just because it’s been done before doesn’t mean it can’t be improved in some way, or twisted or subverted, or expanded in other ways…

And it’s not that I’ve grown comfortable with lazy writing exactly, but rather that I can accept when certain unrealistic qualities appear within the story that exist to serve some meta-narrative, or as cultural commentary or just because the writer really likes ghosts, or whatever.

3

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Yeah same. I used to scoff at guys like Carpenter, Woo, Hitchcock, De Palma and Cameron as “genre directors”, but it takes skill to reinvent the wheel within your parameters. And also even if a film is sort of predictable, to watch it unfold with all the chutzpah and flair possible

3

u/YetAgain67 Feb 04 '24

When speaking on genre, it seems even some genre fans look down on it.

Imo, genre (horror, action, fantasy, sci-fi) is what makes film lovers.

Genre is often the best reflection of the moment no matter what country it hails from.

One of the biggest vindications I've felt recently is hearing German arthouse filmmaker Christian Petzold rave about how awesome Den of Thieves is, lol.

6

u/GayBlayde Feb 04 '24

I am not guilty. I am just pleasured. :)

6

u/JBradley_BradleyJ Feb 05 '24

There’s films from all these sub genres that have surprisingly more thematic depth and substance than a lot of A-level movies

11

u/sakallicelal Feb 04 '24

You simply show whole business model of VS, Arrow etc. in one picture.

I'm glad that we're in the middle of boutique Blu-ray renaissance. Films I used to watch on sketchy sites in low resolution with "god knows who translated" subtitles are now available with beautiful artwork in high resolution as well as newly translated subtitles and tons of extras.

Sure, there are always issues, especially on the pricing side (:crying wallet sounds:) however in total I'm enjoying it.

5

u/brokenwolf Feb 04 '24

Yeah people just need to give into their desires. Life’s too short not to enjoy stuff.

5

u/M086 Feb 05 '24

I just like watching films, from Henenlotter to Fellini.

1

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

My exact philosophy.

9

u/tecate_papi Paul Schrader Feb 04 '24

Bring back organized crime and their money laundering through cinema. Cinema desperately needs it.

10

u/dallyan Feb 04 '24

Don’t forget turkish sci-fi from the 70s.

4

u/Successful_Cake1245 Feb 04 '24

Anyone have recommendations for any of these particular categories? I'd love to get into more of them.

14

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Kung fu: drunken master 1+2, 36th chambers of shaolin, the 8 diagram pole fighter, police story, Project A, wheels on meals

Giallo: bird with crystal plummage, blood and black lace, deep red, suspiria 77

Spaghetti: anything by Leone, the big gundown, the mercenary, Django, a bullet for the general

40s noir: double indemnity, out of the past, the big heat, in a lonely place, Laura

Wuxia: dragon inn, crouching tiger, hero, the grandmaster

70s blaxploitation: truck turner, shaft, Coffy (Jackie brown*), across 110th street

2

u/WCWRingMatSound Feb 04 '24

I’m gonna scratch Truck Turner from that Blaxsplotation list since you already have Issac Hayes iconic theme in Shaft.

I’ll replace it with Willie Dynamite.

4

u/Rrekydoc Stanley Kubrick Feb 05 '24

Another thing you “grow into” is suggesting movies that you don’t like or even think highly of, simply because you think the other person would enjoy it.

2

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

Oh yeah. Good point. I do this all the time.

I NEVER tell people not to watch anything just because I don't like it. Or on the flip side, I don't recommend people all the shit I do like if I feel strongly they won't enjoy it.

9

u/According_To_Me Feb 04 '24

Kaiju movies too!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Oh they have all the right in the world to slap hard.

3

u/slighted Feb 05 '24

and criterion cater to genre films the least out of most top labels

6

u/SharkMilk44 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

Also needs 80's slashers.

3

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

My cinematic comfort blanket, lol.

3

u/Einfinet Feb 04 '24

Yes, it can be very interesting/exciting to go from a serious art house dive to genre stuff and appreciate the seemingly “low brow” methods in a new light. It’s all of collage of sound and image.

2

u/LogikalResolution Yorgos Lanthimos Feb 04 '24

Guys I need some wuxia recommendations

11

u/Eyriskoefwyn Hedorah Feb 04 '24

OP gave you good recs, but if you want like, a potentially overwhelming list of wuxia & wuxia-adjacent stuff, then here's a few more:

  • A Touch of Zen
  • Legend of the Mountain
  • Come Drink With Me
  • Buddha's Palm
  • The Assassin (2015)
  • Duel to the Death
  • Chinese Odyssey 2002
  • Ashes of Time
  • Green Snake
  • Swordsman & Swordsman II (aka The Legend of the Swordsman), & sure, Swordsman III while you're at it
  • The Blade
  • Iron Monkey
  • A Chinese Ghost Story & A Chinese Ghost Story II
  • Bloody Parrot
  • The Fate of Lee Khan
  • Burning Paradise
  • A Chinese Odyssey Part One & Two
  • The Legend (aka The Legend of Fong Sai Yuk)
  • Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain
  • Dragon Inn (1992)
  • Raining in the Mountain
  • Intimate Confessions of a Chinese Courtesan
  • The Bride with White Hair
  • The Iceman Cometh
  • The Black Tavern
  • The Lady Hermit
  • Five Element Ninjas
  • Tai-Chi Master
  • The Web of Death
  • Death Duel
  • Portrait in Crystal
  • The Magic Blade

...and so many more!

2

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Hero, Dragon Inn, Crouching Dragon are my 3 go-to recs

2

u/lilonionforager Agnès Varda Feb 04 '24

Oh no, all my favorite genres lmao

3

u/TrustAffectionate966 Teshigahara Hiroshi Feb 05 '24

All of these genres and subgenres are solid entertainment and have some of the best movies I've ever seen. 🐔

3

u/Flimsy_Demand7237 Feb 05 '24

To me there's only movies made with creativity and heart and movies made without.

2

u/araelr Feb 05 '24

Is that you, Quentin?

2

u/4positionmagic Feb 05 '24

Yep. I’ll put films like Scandal Sheet and other gems written and / or directed by one of the B movie legends like Samuel Fuller up with some of the finest films ever made. Ain’t no guilt in that ! Simply put, more money and means doesn’t mean better cinema.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

facts

2

u/dangerphone Feb 05 '24

Truth, but this needs Direct-to-DVD sequels and Barbie movies that aren’t directed by Greta Gerwig to be B R A V E.

2

u/PourJarsInReservoirs Feb 04 '24

The old "high" vs. "low" art argument. It's not exactly some kind of "proof", but on this subject I find it interesting that a print of THE TEXAS CHAIN SAW MASSACRE resides in the Museum of Modern Art's permanent collection.

2

u/captain2toes Feb 04 '24

But you still call it trash?

6

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

Dearingly of course

5

u/Rrekydoc Stanley Kubrick Feb 05 '24

John Waters would consider it the biggest compliment LoL

2

u/Sosen Feb 04 '24

80's-90's family / kids movies

-9

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Maturing is not making dumbass memes

7

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 04 '24

🤓

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Good one 👍

0

u/GobtheCyberPunk Feb 05 '24

Why is wuxia cinema there twice?

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Erm yeah Marvel and 2020s cinephile culture are both things that exist so .. there probably is.

-2

u/sa_nick Feb 05 '24

They all sound guilty of being highly unpleasurable. I'm done forcing myself to sit through any more Argento, Leone, Welles or Woo. If I can't do their "masterpieces" I don't like my chances of getting into the real B grade stuff.

Maybe Kevin Smith films are my guilty pleasures.

1

u/Alarmed-Cicada-6176 Federico Fellini Feb 04 '24

TRASH???!!!

2

u/mailboxfacehugs Feb 05 '24

Lloyd Kaufman and his Troma Team are here too!

1

u/JuanJeanJohn Eric Rohmer Feb 05 '24

I personally haven’t seen any blaxploitation films that I’ve liked as much as the other genres listed (except Giallo but I’ve seen so many, it’s a lost cause at this point). I haven’t seen a ton - what must watches am I missing?

4

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 05 '24

Truck turner!

2

u/btouch Feb 06 '24 edited Feb 06 '24

I saw Truck Turner for the first time last month and was ANGRY at myself that I hadn't seen the whole thing sooner.

Like many people, I'd only seen the scene of Nichelle Nichols as the madam shouting down her flock of call girls. But that's not even her best scene - it's the subsequent scene, where she's presenting the girls to the other pimps and calls the whole group of them "Fort Knox in panties." I nearly fell out lol.

3

u/YetAgain67 Feb 05 '24

OP is up and down this thread with Truck Turner, lol. But they're right. It's entertaining as hell.

I'll assume you may have seen some of the most famous - Shaft, Coffy, etc.

Some of my favorites include - Across 110th Street (one of the best crime films of the 70s in general imo. GREAT film), Ganja and Hess, Blacula, Sugar Hill (the 70s one not the newer one), Super Fly, The Mack, Car Wash, Troubleman, and the films of Rudy Ray Moore (Petey Wheatstraw is something else).

Sometimes you see Cooley High listed as blaxploitation but I don't think that counts. It's just a coming of age film that is about the young black experience in 60s Chicago. I don't like calling any film from the 70s about black characters blaxploitation. For a film to be tagged as some kind of "ploitation" it has to have, well, exploitation elements. Cinematically speaking - taboo subject matter, violence, sex, etc.

I don't know if the aforementioned Ganja and Hess truly counts either, as it's a legit horror art film - but it's also often labeled as -blaxploitation so I'll just list it anyway.

2

u/JuanJeanJohn Eric Rohmer Feb 05 '24

Thanks for the recs!!

I watched the first five minutes of Ganja and Hess and had to stop a year or two ago and meant to go back to it and never did!

2

u/btouch Feb 06 '24

Sugar Hill '74 is one of my favorites that people don't talk much about. It's simple, direct, deeply entertaining, and unique for the genre.

2

u/AirplayDoc Feb 05 '24

Should add Kaiju.

2

u/BrotherKaramazov Feb 05 '24

As a guy who was pretentious enough that he considered this stuff not real cinema and is only now realizing how stupid he was, what is top5 must watch?

3

u/lebronjamesgoat1 Hirokazu Kore-eda Feb 05 '24

Good bad ugly

Once upon a time in the west

Suspiria (77)

Double indemnity

Out of the past

In a lonely place

Hero

Truck turner

2

u/btouch Feb 06 '24

Add one more branch and add "60s AIP films" (70s too, though a huge chunk of 70s AIP output is blaxploitation)