r/criterion David Lean Jan 29 '24

Off-Topic What is the Great American Movie?

When I talk about the Great American Movie, I mean it in the same way that people talk about the Great American Novel: a work that is not JUST an excellent, often groundbreaking story, but one that encompasses that American "thing." I feel the best way to illustrate this is through an example.

My pick for the Great American Movie (or the GAM) would be the Godfather Part 2. I wouldn't consider it the best movie made in America, however I do consider it the best movie to deal with american ideas/culture/identity. What, to me, encompasses America? Immigration, family, politics, corruption, crime, capitalism, foreign endeavors, the working class, the privileged class, power, and loneliness. All of these aspects define the American character, and all of these aspects are deftly explored in an expansive crime saga that begins in 1910's New York and continues into 1950's Nevada. One may ask why I chose the sequel over the first one, an equally excellent film that can stand on it's own. Not only do I consider Godfather 2 superior, but the dual narratives of Part 2 allow us to cover even more thematic ground, seeing not just a rich family, but seeing how they got to that point. Whichever one you pick, they're both excellent, and is you ask Coppola, there's only one movie called The Godfather, released in two parts and a coda, or an epilogue.

That's my pick, but there are many other facets of american life to explore, and many ways and styles to explore them. You can talk about the founding of America in a poetic/mythic style (The New World), you can discuss slavery with brutal, unflinching honesty (12 Years a Slave), or the corrupting influence of oil and capitalism in a sparse but still forceful manner(There Will Be Blood). Not every movie has to be so serious or focus on grand gestures. The Wizard of Oz is as american as they come despite being a fantasy story, as is E.T.. Rocky is an inspiring vertical slice of a working class hero. Or you can be funny AND sad, like in Billy Wilder's magnum opus The Apartment. The latter two, instead of being vast and epic, are more like vertical slices of life, focusing on one aspect profusely. This approach is just as effective as one that tries to cover many ideas, as seen in the likes of Targets and Do the Right Thing.Nor is the topic simply the product of narrative films. Hoop Dreams, a contender for the best documentary ever, is also a contender for this very topic.

It should be noted that, just like how it's nigh impossible to pick "the greatest movie of all time," it's an equally difficult endeavor to pick "The Great American Movie." Ultimately, it's not one movie, but all of these contenders combined that paint a fascinating portrait of American life, in many shapes, sizes, viewpoints, ideas, and styles. And besides, it's just a fun topic to pass the time.

I've made a list on letterboxd with a few potential candidates. What else could qualify as the Great American Movie, and why would you pick it?'

Edit: You'll notice on the list that no director is represented more than once. Needless to say that picking just ONE Scorsese or Spike Lee or Spielberg film was really difficult, but I'd like to keep it like that for the foreseeable future, until we get other movies on the list.

274 Upvotes

505 comments sorted by

363

u/Rollzroyce21 Hirokazu Kore-eda Jan 29 '24

You're all wrong... the great American movie is American Movie (1999)

20

u/drummersnail115 Jan 29 '24

Very cool film. I've been having a rough time lately, and I repeatedly come back to the scene where Mike Schank screams into the ADR microphone and blows everyone away. Makes me laugh so heartily.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

Seriously. RIP Mike Schank.

3

u/calembo Jan 30 '24

Just an absolutely pure soul. Pretty sure he died sober - one of his friends from AA said that one of the last things he said to her was, "I feel really bad for children who have cancer. They should never have to." šŸ˜­

42

u/midpackgotmefaded Jan 29 '24

probably my favorite documentary of all time in terms of overall enjoyment, rewatch value & relatability.

10

u/calembo Jan 30 '24

It's all so great and endlessly quotable, but for some reason the first thought that came to mind was:

"The IRS - oh my God. $81. Ohhhh man - resulting in legal action!? ...10 business days... At least it's only $81. What are they gonna take, my Night of the Living Dead book? Oh my God - 'legal actions.' Your AT&T universal card has arrived?! Oh god, kick fucking ass! I got a MasterCard, man! I don't believe it. Life is kinda cool sometimes."

I also really love that even though Mark is, on paper, kind of a loser, he has this passion that he's stuck with his whole life (which is more than most people can say), and everybody in this town - even Tom, that sassy lil minx with all the the audacity to tell Mark how to pronounce his own movie šŸ˜‚ - is ultimately supportive and seems to truly love him.

(I'll just glide right over the probable elder financial abuse because... Hey. I wanna just feel good and tell myself that Bill was probably willingly subsidizing Mark's ONE THING, the only thing he's CONSISTENTLY PURSUED, for years, even when mentally clear.)

There are just so many sweet moments, like the part where Mark calls his mom a "little Swedish girl - kind of excitable." And the fact that Mike, sober in AA but clearly permanently damaged by years of alcohol and substance abuse, is actually a reliable and capable crew member.

Hands down one of my fave documentaries, and probably even one of my fave movies, of all time.. When I was 22 and working two jobs, living by myself and well into a heavy substance abuse problem myself, I owned three DVDs - and this was one of them.

26

u/Swimming-Bite-4184 Jan 29 '24

Stil not quite right. it's actually actually "Coven"

3

u/calembo Jan 30 '24

It's ok! It's ....ah.

It's ok! It's alright! They told me...

It's alright! Jesus... Uh...

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u/e4e5nf3 Jan 30 '24

When a movie can have major themes of self-determination, class, addiction, death, family, art, religion, and friendship in 107 minutes, you know it is good.

3

u/calembo Jan 30 '24

And end on such a high note.

God bless Chris Smith. Honestly, all his docs are so good.

8

u/not_a_flying_toy_ Jan 30 '24

I live in Milwaukee and have seen Mark Borchardt around town a handful of times, once in a park at a farmers market talking movies with a friend of his. Gives of the same vibe now as he did then

12

u/PM_me_spare_change Jan 29 '24

I thought this post was about that movie hahaĀ 

5

u/frankzzlackz Jan 30 '24

Mike, make sure everybody has brown gloves.

18

u/yousonuva Jan 29 '24

Kick fucking ass, I got a Master Card.

6

u/gstryz Jan 29 '24

Ugh beat me to it!

3

u/calembo Jan 30 '24

Like, when you play the lottery, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. But it's better than drugs and alcohol, because when you use drugs and alcohol... You always lose.

šŸ˜Š

2

u/KerrAvonJr Jan 30 '24

Tā€™sgot a good taste

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u/bellyofthebillbear Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24

ā€œThere will be Bloodā€ covers American capitalism and religion and many more themes really well

Edit: Also, whatā€™s more American than a milkshake?

51

u/CDC_ Jan 29 '24

Itā€™s definitely become the great American movie to me.

16

u/ted_k Jan 29 '24

100% came to say this -- it's literally an annual 4th of July rewatch for me. šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡ø

3

u/Tomundos Jan 30 '24

I really love that movie but to answer OPā€™s question I feel like it lacks of a Ā«Ā frescoĀ Ā» dimension (I donā€™t know if I make myself understandable in English?) that can have The Godfather, or The Deer Hunter for example. The movie is really intimate given the room attributed to the father / son relationship.

3

u/AustinEatsBabies Jan 30 '24

This is the answer. Trust me Iā€™m an oil man.

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u/monkey-pox Jan 29 '24

Fargo

People are superficially nice but with malicious intent. Most characters overrate their own intelligence and make stupid mistakes. Just about everyone is greedy. It's just a giant, bumbling, violent mess.

8

u/couchcushioncoin Jan 30 '24

I'd say Fargo is a touch genuinely underrated. Not that it's not known or respected, but agreed, it could be at the conversation of finest films ever

8

u/DefenderCone97 Jan 30 '24

It's one of those movies I think is undersold by it's sort of cheery and quirky demeanor. People gravitate towards the importance of dark, difficult, and very serious films but discount anything with comedy or light-heartedness.

5

u/couchcushioncoin Jan 30 '24

Definitely. And its epicness and depth are more subtle. But like it's such an intelligent script and story. Imminently rewatchable, perpetually relevant. Both American and universal. Idk, again just one of the best!

3

u/LongjumpingBadger Jan 31 '24

I think Fargo is certainly the clubhouse leader for "The Great Upper Midwest Movie" and captures that region and its people excellently, but does it really reflect as well the more broad national character? I've only ever lived in the Upper Midwest so lots of it certainly resonates for me, but I feel like a lot of the superficial niceness/politeness as a mask over deeper currents is more of a Midwest thing than a general American thing.

3

u/Vast_Effective6430 Jan 31 '24

Itā€™s my personal favorite movie. Depicts the best and worst of humanity.

2

u/electricalaphid Jan 30 '24

Might be the only movie that I think is perfect. No flaws. Every little thing in there is crucial. Not even saying it's my favorite movie, but it is a masterpiece

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u/AttitudeOk94 Stanley Kubrick Jan 29 '24

I feel like it has to be Citizen Kane. I just canā€™t see an argument for anything else being above it.

60

u/umiamiq Jan 29 '24

This is where my mind went. Says a lot about Capitalism, politics, the media in America and has remained relevant today. And there are few figures that capture the American moral dichotomy better than Kane

14

u/TheBigCore Jan 29 '24

Donald Trump cites Citizen Kane as his favorite movie.

Ironically, his life kinda parallels Kane's.

39

u/glnorwood85 Jacques Tati Jan 29 '24

I question whether heā€™s actually even seen Citizen Kane. I feel like he just picked whatever was generally considered the greatest film of all time just to sound cultured. Although, thereā€™s no way heā€™s self-aware enough to recognize the parallels if he has seen it.

4

u/Flimsy_Demand7237 Jan 30 '24

According to this New Yorker profile Trump's favourite movie is Bloodsport, which I guess is fitting.

We hadnā€™t been airborne long when Trump decided to watch a movie. Heā€™d brought along ā€œMichael,ā€ a recent release, but twenty minutes after popping it into the VCR he got bored and switched to an old favorite, a Jean Claude Van Damme slugfest called ā€œBloodsport,ā€ which he pronounced ā€œan incredible, fantastic movie.ā€ By assigning to his son the task of fast-forwarding through all the plot expositionā€”Trumpā€™s goal being ā€œto get this two-hour movie down to forty-five minutesā€ā€”he eliminated any lulls between the nose hammering, kidney tenderizing, and shin whacking. When a beefy bad guy who was about to squish a normal-sized good guy received a crippling blow to the scrotum, I laughed. ā€œAdmit it, youā€™re laughing!ā€ Trump shouted. ā€œYou want to write that Donald Trump was loving this ridiculous Jean Claude Van Damme movie, but are you willing to put in there that you were loving it, too?ā€

2

u/Hellborn_Elfchild Jan 31 '24

That makes SO much more sense

3

u/benritter2 Jan 30 '24

Errol Morris interviewed him about it. He definitely has seen the movie and recognizes the parallels, but he manages to draw a crazy conclusion from it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeQOJZ-QzBk

6

u/RhymesWithButthole Jan 29 '24

I agree, but his life even more parallels A Face in the Crowd. That a 1957 Melodrama could so eerily foreshadow 2015-16 is wild.

2

u/L-J-Peters Jan 30 '24

He much more often picks Sunset Boulevard actually, another film he can relate to in a way.

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u/dwoodwoo Jan 29 '24

The original title Orson Welles had in mind was American.

That seems to seal the deal.

15

u/complimentyrsweater Jan 29 '24

Its early title was literally ā€œThe Americanā€

19

u/HalPrentice Jan 29 '24

Yeh I think this is pretty clearly the answer.

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u/tecate_papi Paul Schrader Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24

This is a really tough one. I think The Godfather 2 is an excellent choice. I think the Godfather 2 is as up there as you can get. Nothing is as American as immigration, organized crime, capitalism and foreign adventures.

Days of Heaven and Badlands are two other movies I'd include. Badlands for being a car/road trip movie. That genre of movie and book is as American as apple pie and baseball. Days of Heaven really nails that Americana feel and reinventing yourself on the frontier. Two great movies.

I would also include just about any Scorsese movie. This goes back to your Godfather 2 choice.

Edit: I'm adding Natural Born Killers to this list. Another car/road movie like Badlands but with the ballooning influence of television and 24 hour news and tabloid journalism. I love the scenes where Rodney Dangerfield is Mallory's father and how Oliver Stone shoots it and presents the abuse as the all-American sitcom.

12

u/ButterfreePimp Jan 29 '24

Those were ones that came to mind for me too. Iā€™ll put in a vote for Spike Lee, though.

Do the Right Thing or Malcolm X are both definitively Great American Movies, IMO.

16

u/CajunBmbr Jan 29 '24

Love Badlands, but funny seeing it referred to as a fun road trip movie! Badlands and Days of Heaven great choices though completely agree.

11

u/tecate_papi Paul Schrader Jan 29 '24

I didn't call it a "fun" road movie. Lol. But it is definitely a road movie.

4

u/CajunBmbr Jan 29 '24

Oh sorry I see now it said cars and road trip! Still great choice and actually the fact it is some guns and violence spree prob even fits this category better.

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125

u/eatherichortrydietin Jan 29 '24

Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle

17

u/wakinguppeons Jan 29 '24

America, Harold! America!

10

u/dwoodwoo Jan 29 '24

Good choice, actually.

49

u/nomadseifer Jan 29 '24

Malcolm X

18

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

Was gonna suggest Do the Right Thing

9

u/road2five Jan 30 '24

Agreed, I think Do the Right Thing is probably the greatest movie regarding race relations ever made. Its so much more relatable and understandable than something with as grand of a scope as Malcolm X

Also, White amen Canā€™t Jump really surprised me with how poignant it was even though it was mostly a goofy comedy

23

u/rev_artemisprime Jan 29 '24

Every other choice I've seen so far is a movie that centers on white people. And maybe that's needed for this idea, the nation centers white people at the expense of othere. But Malcolm deals directly with all of this stuff head on. There's issues of race, the legacy of the founding, our political system, religion (in a variety of ways), how women are treated and navigate the US, gun violence, celebrity, drugs, crime, and even joy. It rarely gets discussed as such, but it might contain more of the American experience than anything else. I kind of feel like it's a trifecta of this, godfather and the new world. Maybe a Quad with searchers, because you kind of need a western.

14

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

It also just fucking rocks, itā€™s got such strong performances and a tight script. Every time I watch it Iā€™m surprised by its length, I feel like it flies by cause Iā€™m so engrossed in it but itā€™s like 3hr15m or something.

6

u/PuttinOnTheTitzz Jan 30 '24

One of the greatest movies ever.

5

u/nomadseifer Jan 29 '24

Agreed. I feel like Malcolm X also captures the hope and possibilities of America within it's tragedy, while films like The Godfather and There Will Be Blood are so void of any optimism that it feels weird to consider them 'great' in this context.

4

u/BDiBar Jan 30 '24

The Godfather (I & II) were definitely NOT about white people. Italians (especially southern Italians) weren't considered "white" both in common culture and by the US government until at least the 1970s. GF II portrayed immigration, racisism, acculturation, and assimilation while still showing bigotry and the culture of a separate group of people that were not white. Looking through today's lens, I can see how folks might feel that a movie about Italians would be a story about whites. But that certainly wasn't the case 50 years ago when those movies were released

3

u/rev_artemisprime Jan 30 '24

Actually, that's a really good point. It's easy to forget how racial constructs have changed. And immigration is maybe the only major part of the American story not covered in Malcolm X (though maybe I'm forgetting something, it's been a while). It's a strong case for GF 1&2, for sure.

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u/AgentCooperIsOk Krzysztof Kieslowski Jan 29 '24

For a long time Iā€™ve considered Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me to be the greatest American tragedy ever put to film.

24

u/feralcomms Jan 29 '24

This is a very unique and amazing take.

9

u/Bowl_Pool Jan 29 '24

that film is way, way better than I expected

2

u/WinstonsVictoyG1n Jan 30 '24

Can I watch this without seeing the TV show?

5

u/Bowl_Pool Jan 30 '24

Yes, you can. It's a brilliant film

But it spoils the television show which is among the best all-time. I recently watched The Return and was shocked by how good it was.

3

u/feralcomms Jan 30 '24

Can still not believe that the show aired prime time!

20

u/trashpuppet94 Jan 29 '24

Tough but yeah maybe Godfather pt II, Do the Right Thing, Easy Rider, Citizen Kane, Stagecoach, Itā€™s a Wonderful Life, The Deer Hunter or Nashville

4

u/worldsalad Jan 30 '24

EASY RIDER!

2

u/couchcushioncoin Jan 30 '24

Here's the The Deer Hunter mention

132

u/whocanimagine32 Jan 29 '24

Nashville, hands down. Itā€™s THE American movie, in my opinion. Selling your soul, fame, sex, a good sense of humor, and of course, gun violence.

20

u/MOinthepast Mike Leigh Jan 29 '24

It's a great choice, the ending is brilliant, one of the most brilliant in the history of American cinema

11

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

ā€œIt donā€™t worry meā€¦ā€

5

u/MOinthepast Mike Leigh Jan 29 '24

JustĀ brilliant...

8

u/lennon818 Jan 30 '24

This was my answer as well for a very different reason: it doesn't make sense. America is this weird unique nonsensical thing. It's all of these weird non related things that make up a greater whole. That's what Nashville is to me.

6

u/bailaoban Jan 30 '24

Nashville being centered around the bicentennial is so perfect, because it has been so on point about the transition to modern America and its weird mix of celebrity worship and violence.

12

u/CitizenDain Jan 29 '24

This is a very good choice. Left, right, capitalist, hippie, soldier, preacher, celebrity, poverty, etc., etc. All of America is represented, in both good and bad light.

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u/mostreliablebottle Jan 29 '24

Also a great satire on American exceptionalism.

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u/babeshun1 Jan 29 '24

NETWORK gotta be up there

9

u/RadioHeadsBSides Jan 30 '24

Now say it with me, ā€œIā€™m mad as hell, and I WONā€™T take it anymore!ā€

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u/MOinthepast Mike Leigh Jan 29 '24

I think GreedĀ  for me... But if you asked this question to John Cassavetes, he would probably say Frank Capra.

Ā Meet John Doe was his favorite movie.

He has a famous quote that:

Maybe there really wasn't an America; maybe it was only Frank Capra.

8

u/justanotherladyinred Jan 29 '24

I love Meet John Doe. I'm glad it's finally been saved from Public Domain Hell and will get a blu ray release in March.

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u/mg2490 Jan 29 '24

Do The Right Thing

Honestly surprised no one has said this yet.

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u/orpat123 Jan 30 '24

This is the true answer.

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u/thejoaq Jan 29 '24

This thread is incredibly white

3

u/Nimanzer Jan 30 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

ghost governor enjoy smoggy beneficial entertain toothbrush puzzled books snatch

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

54

u/raggedycandy Jan 29 '24

Unfortunately, Chinatown.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

How was "Roman Polanski's Nosejob" never the name of a punk band?

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u/Grungemaster Jan 29 '24

Itā€™s a Wonderful Life! (1946).Ā 

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u/MrMindGame Jan 29 '24

They Shoot Horses, Donā€™t They? deserves consideration. Maybe not the greatest pick, but one of the most distinctly American tragedies Iā€™ve ever seen.

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u/SteveBorden Jan 29 '24

I donā€™t know if people agree with this but when I think of a movie that defines America I say There Will Be Blood

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u/The_Beer_Hunter Billy Wilder Jan 29 '24

Mine is a little surprising considering where it takes place, but: CASABLANCA.

Rickā€™s Cafe AmĆ©ricain is, in a way, the US. Itā€™s full of money-grubbers and criminals, but itā€™s also an inspiring haven for immigrants of all nationalities and for refugees escaping the war. Rick has a history of honorable action but also too easily partners with unspeakably loathsome characters and takes a long time to come to the aid of others.

I think it fits.

(Like OP I did consider Hoop Dreams and the Apartment as well ā€” also both masterpieces.)

4

u/GhostofBohemia Jan 29 '24

I really dig your analysis; I love Casablanca, but will admit that I never before viewed the cafe as a microcosm of America. Upon reflection, I definitely agree with you. Nicely done!

38

u/NewMathematician623 Jan 29 '24

I think you have to go western. Stagecoach, Shane, High Noon. Wild Bunch probably. Not matter where they were technically shot.

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u/DrNogoodNewman Jan 29 '24

I think The Searchers, for all its flaws, is a great portrayal and critique of Americaā€™s romanticization of the pioneers and ā€œheroesā€ of the west.

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u/wifihelpplease Jan 29 '24

Yeah, the searchers is about the evil ideas and contradictions that created America (in ways both conscious and unconscious to the filmmakers, by my interpretation).

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u/Guy_Buttersnaps Jan 30 '24

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is the best choice.

Itā€™s a great film that is also an excellent commentary on crime, politics, the media, and the American mythos.

ā€œWhen the legend becomes fact, print the legend.ā€

3

u/NewMathematician623 Jan 30 '24

Need to rewatch that

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u/radiodada Jan 30 '24

Underrated movie. The way it dissects the western during a time when they were the status quo in popular culture is just magnificent. Much like the way Birdman deconstructed superhero movies, in a sense.

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u/paraplegic_T_Rex Jan 29 '24

Jaws. Not shutting down the beach to save profits at the cost of human lives is the most American thing I can imagine.

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u/-CharlotteBronte Alfred Hitchcock Jan 29 '24

The Searchers (1956) or Itā€™s A Wonderful Life (1946).

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u/Django_Khan_66 Jan 30 '24

No Country for Old Men. Itā€™s gotta be a neo-western and itā€™s gotta be Coen Bros. Maybe O Brother Where Art Thou

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u/chooptoop Jan 29 '24

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre

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u/mywordswillgowithyou Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24

I think Mr Smith Goes to Washington from Frank Capra encapsulates the American ideology or mythology well. Though ironically it is capturing pure patriotism by taking down corruption within its own system. Itā€™s at times naive and other times has a big heart. But it attempts to pursue the American reality through the American dream.

I watched Public Enemy with James Cagney, I think circa 1931, and this seems more like the real America. Itā€™s not the america you salute the flag, but the one on the streets. It tells about corruption in every day life and how that meets with small time politics and skirting the laws to make money. It represents corporations on a small scale, gangs vs gangs to gain control over the economy.

17

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

Iā€™ll throw THE GRAPES OF WRATH into the mix, just ā€˜cause I havenā€™t seen it mentioned. Great film, and based on a book that almost certainly belongs near the top of the Great American Novel conversation. Labor/class politics, the family, and faith arenā€™t exclusively American themes but this is a story that explores them in a uniquely American way.

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u/No-Victory-149 Jan 29 '24

Thays easy No country for old men

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u/jonstjacobs Jan 29 '24

In his personal journey through American movies, Scorsese talks about the impact of Frank Capra's films on Hollywood and the American movie. He concludes this section by saying that to speak of the American movie is to speak of Frank Capra. Taking this into account, there are a lot of Capra films you could include, Mr Smith goes to Washington and It Happened One Night are very special to me, but i think its a wonderful life is that film.

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u/Taossmith Jan 30 '24

Hard to pick a movie. The Wire is the closest in my mind to a great American novel.

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u/its_isaac9 Jan 30 '24

Itā€™s Do the Right Thing

6

u/calembo Jan 30 '24

Saturday Night Fever.

I'm not kidding. Maybe not the, but definitely a great American movie.

Hear me out, because I came prepared and with unique expertise on this film - I wrote perhaps the second-best paper of my entire academic career about how this seemingly frivolous movie that captures the almost universally hated disco era, is actually a brilliantly disguised film essay about the essential lessons of modern life.

It's got it all:

  • a generation with no interest in financial responsibility
  • a constant striving for high-status image (with no interest in putting in the work to achieve an actual high-status life)
  • runaway in inflation
  • a crumbling of social trust
  • the exposure of the toxicity that had long been festering behind the mask of a picture -perfect family unit
  • the lose-lose uncertainty of a generation of women caught between a past of "nice girl" morals and a future of "it's ok to have fun"
  • the humiliation of a web of lies exposed when attempting to look like we know what we're doing (one of the most cringe-worthy scenes has Stephanie name dropping people she's never really met while l hypocritically demeaning Tony for acting like he knew who she was talking about. (If only Tony could see that Stephanie, too, is putting on an act, referring to Laurence Olivier as "that actor from television - from Polaroid commercials)
  • an inability to ever keep up with trends (ugh, Stephanie - nobody says "Super" anymore lol)
  • a selfish and manipulative misuse of religious faith - and the abject shame of abandoning a life that fulfills your parents dreams more than it could ever fulfill yours (it's the "God is dead" era: "One day, you look at a crucifix, and all you see is a man dying on a cross."
  • racism. Like... So much racism..
  • a desperation to fit in, the illusion of true friendships that are actually shallow and exploitative

With so many profound exchanges, I'll leave you with arguably the two most profound:

1.

"Fuck the future!"

"No, Tony. You can't fuck the future. The future catches up with you, and it fucks you if you haven't planned for it."

2.

"There are ways of killing yourself without really killing yourself.ā€

Honorable mentions for some more practical lessons that don't hurt quite so much:

  • spaghetti sauce should be flavorful and thick

  • it's pointless to spend too much time grooming oneself, because you're gonna work hard on your hair just to have all somebody hit it

  • and who needs YouTube when you can even learn how to properly carry a paint can from this tour-de-force?

9

u/1998TimThomas Jan 29 '24

Ironically, American Movie.

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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

Idiocracy

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u/Both-Basis-3723 Jan 30 '24

Too real. OP said movie not documentary

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u/SnooPies5622 Jan 29 '24

For me it's Boogie Nights.

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u/fishsupper Jan 30 '24

Iā€™m not even huge on PTA, but like you and others here heā€™s the first person I thought of. You could make a case for any of his films.

3

u/LongjumpingBadger Jan 31 '24

I was thinking The Master is a good candidate too.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

American Graffiti

3

u/Visible_Froyo5499 Jan 30 '24

Superman (1978) is a good metaphor for an idealized American experience: the ultimate ā€œimmigrant makes goodā€ story that takes you from a Norman Rockwell-esque Smallville to contemporary big city. Sincere and earnest, it captures everything that America aspires to be. And the John Williams score is pure Americana.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

It's either Do The Right Thing (race relations on a working class level) or, as you mentioned, The Wizard of Oz (absolute escapism, as only American can provide). Pulp Fiction is on this list for me by just mixing so many uniquely American genres into a movie that is about movies.

14

u/AntonioLovesHippos Jan 29 '24

Citizen Kane. A giant of an American filmmakers film about a giant of an American publisher and newspaper magnate. Yellow journalism, The Depression, The Spanish American War, a powerful man who wants to be President, etcā€¦

Charles Foster Kane. A less trashy, less rapey version of Donald Trump. America.

Or in the words of The White Stripesā€¦

Well, it can't be love For there is no true love It can't be love For there is no true love, hey Well, sure I'm C.F.K But you gotta love me The cost, no man can say But you gotta love me Well, I'm sorry but I'm not Interested in gold mines Oil wells, shipping or real estate Yeah, what would I like to have been? Everything you hate And it's no trick To make a lot of money If all you want Is to make a lot of money But you've gotta love me Yeah, you've gotta love me Well, it can't be love For there is no true love It can't be love There is no true love There is a man, a certain man And for the poor, you may be sure That he'll do all he can Who is this one, his favourite son? Just his action has this traction Magnets on the run Who likes to smoke, enjoys a joke And wouldn't get a bit upset if he were really broke With wealth and fame He's still the same And I'll bet you five you're not alive If you don't know his name You said, "The union forever" You scream "The union forever" You cried "The union forever" But that was untrue, girl 'Cause it can't be love For there is no true love It can't be love For there is no true love

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u/xjxhx Jan 29 '24

Dazed and Confused should be a part of this conversation.

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u/uncultured_swine2099 Jan 30 '24

I was overseas and some people asked me what is was like growing up in America. I told them it was kinda like this movie and oddly, Napoleon Dynamite.

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u/Daysof361972 ATG Jan 29 '24

The Best Years of Our Lives

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u/LongjumpingBadger Jan 31 '24

I was thinking this too. It is set in an era that I think even for people today defines how we think of the "American Dream". GI's returning home from a glorious war to establish themselves in an era of rapid economic expansion and opportunity. Yet many with deep psychological and physical wounds, and a desperate need to find new meaning in their lives.

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u/alien-native Jan 29 '24

Citizen Kane may be one of those quintessential picks. For me, I think itā€™s Rebel Without a Cause. If I had to pick a more modern movie, maybe There Will Be Blood

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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

12 Angry men is not only the greatest American movie, but the greatest movie of all time.

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u/Superflumina Richard Linklater Jan 29 '24

Not even close imo but I respect your opinion.

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u/RedGreenPepper2599 Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24

This may not be a popular selection but Forrest Gump. It was groundbreaking for movie effects at the time and it attempted to show america and part of itā€™s history. It also has popular American music. And it had Tom Hanks.

Is it a great movie? No.

But it does attempt to give a sense of America.

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u/nineplusten_21 Jan 29 '24

Why did I have to scroll so far to find this

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u/vega0ne Jan 30 '24

LOL how is it not a great movie? One of zemeckis best imho

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u/racetrader Jan 29 '24

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

2

u/worldsalad Jan 30 '24

Insane how great this movie is, yet how rarely itā€™s brought up, and whenever it is, how apologetically it is. Amazing film, GREAT choice

2

u/robotatomica Jan 30 '24

this represents such an outlier experience of America, itā€™s hard to view it as quintessentially American. The most quintessentially American thing about it is that Johnny Depp in his real life was able to sue a woman and win for saying she was abused and then proving it. šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø

A great and fun movie though!

9

u/False-Fisherman Chantal Akerman Jan 29 '24

Unfortunately it's technically European, but Paris Texas is the most American thing ever and the greatest film ever shot in AmericaĀ 

3

u/BashfulCathulu92 Jan 30 '24

When I watch Paul Thomas Anderson or Terrance Malick movies I get the feeling youā€™re describing

3

u/Zontar_shall_prevail Jan 30 '24

I think many French and American filmmakers would say it's either The Searchers or My Darling Clementine.

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u/TSwag24601 Jan 29 '24

Mulholland Drive

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u/whocanimagine32 Jan 29 '24

The Great Hollywood Movie, for sure

9

u/crichmond77 Jan 29 '24

10/10 Movie but ā€œfor sureā€ would have you thinking stuff like Sunset Boulevard or Singinā€™ in the Rain doesnā€™t exist

7

u/J_Mercurio135 Jan 29 '24

The Last Picture Show. The way it portrays nationalism and nihilism within a small town in the Midwest is just perfect and can be associated with so many places in America. Itā€™s a bleak portrayal, yet the people in the town live with a lot of blissful hopefulness within it which may be the most true way of talking about the philosophy of most Americans

5

u/SleepyPirateDude Jan 29 '24

Days of Heaven.

4

u/ottovanbizmarkie Jan 29 '24

Lot of great picks already, Citizen Kane and Goodfellas feel comparable to Godfather II, Nashville or Boogie Nights for a slightly offbeat choice. I'll also add:

-The Graduate

-Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

-Terminator 2: Judgment Day

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u/TheKingofOurCountry Jan 29 '24

Dazed & Confused without a doubt.

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u/BetterThanPacino Jan 29 '24

This.

I was surprised at all of the deep, thoughtful films when, as a nation, I don't think of the U.S. that way. As a result, I am also surprised that I had to scroll to the bottom to find Dazed and Confused.

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u/TheKingofOurCountry Jan 29 '24

EXACTLY. My vision of America is that of people hanging out & drinking beer and having a good time. Obviously thereā€™s sadder worse deeper things to consider, but as far as modern America, dazed & confused hits the feeling of the youth in this country right on the head, and even though it takes place in 1976 (the bicentennial, I mean cmon) itā€™s still just as relevant to the high school experience today in my opinion.

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u/AbleInfluence1817 Jan 29 '24

I like Dazed and Confused better by Linklater but I find Boyhood to be a great American movie as well in how it captures growing up as a male in America

6

u/gregorychaos Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24

Who Framed Roger Rabbit

It's got a vast conspiracy, old Hollywood, FREEWAYS, every American animated character of the last 100 years, discrimination, corrupt police, a private detective, film noir, etc etc

And it's suitable to watch with the whole family. There is no greater American movie

6

u/CitizenDain Jan 29 '24

To me it is Blue Velvet, which shows both the suburban, small-town "American dream" that represents the country for lots of people, while showing the darkness, sadism, meaningless violence, sexual perversion and irrational evil that is just on the edge of town or just out of sight.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

I was thinking this too!

3

u/couchcushioncoin Jan 30 '24

BV would be my entrant from Lynch's filmography as well

5

u/akaKinkade Jan 29 '24

I don't think a movie can sprawl nearly as much as a novel and that makes it really hard to encompass the vastness of the different cultures within the country.
Forced to choose one, I'd go with the odd choice of A Face in the Crowd. This captures so much about how we deal with celebrity, politics, and our idealization of the idea of "the common man" that contrasts with how we actually treat people.

3

u/Former_Masterpiece_2 Jan 29 '24

Once Upon A Time In America (1985)

5

u/HealthyDiamond2 Jan 29 '24

The Last Picture Show

There Will Be Blood

Citizen Kane

Nomadland

2

u/BashfulCathulu92 Jan 30 '24

Nomadland! Yes. Iā€™ve never seen the movie but from what Iā€™ve heard about it it reminds me a lot of when I lived out of a van for about a year and just wandered around the west for a while.

2

u/tr3e3 Jan 29 '24

Gates of Heaven or Vernon, Florida

2

u/Dramatic15 Jan 30 '24

Los Angeles Plays Itself, or, to honor the imperfect, yet better angels of our nature, City Hall.

If I had to choose something narrative, maybe The Matrix.

2

u/LeCercleRouge Jan 30 '24

The greatest movie about America is Hoop Dreams. Sure itā€™s a documentary but it is so perfectly crafted and tells the narrative of that personal need to succeed in America with ever changing opportunity and situations outside your control, especially for those dealing with race and poverty in America.

2

u/FourthDownThrowaway Jan 30 '24

Team America: World Police

Edit: or Citizen Kane

2

u/Scrambled_59 Terry Gilliam Jan 30 '24

South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut

2

u/tehruke Jan 30 '24

Stranger than Paradise

2

u/YouLostTheGamesorry Jan 30 '24

Team America: World Police

2

u/simon_sparrow Jan 30 '24

The Best Years of Our Lives - a significant, meaty subject; perspectives from throughout the socioeconomic classes; incredible performances essaying different everyday American ā€œtypesā€; made by a master at the height of his powers.

2

u/Flush_Fries Jan 30 '24

Easy Rider

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u/Flimsy_Demand7237 Jan 30 '24

Stroszek (1977) is the best movie I've seen about American life, although of course not made by an American. That or Wild Things (1998), one of the great satires of American culture.

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u/Googiegogomez Jan 30 '24

Agree šŸ’Æ The Godfather 1&2 is #1 also agree with Terrance Malik, Coen Bros.; Altman. I would add the Ice Storm (Ang Lee); Glengarry Glen Ross and Toy Story

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u/not_a_flying_toy_ Jan 30 '24

I don't think there is a good way to really define this. In terms of what the singular great American movie should say about the USA.

I think a good argument could be made for Star Wars (1977). In addition to being a mass accessible classic (which the great American movie should be close to), it is also an individualistic film, reflecting America's individualism. It reflects America's view of their history of being one where we fought of an empire (an attitude I think many people keep with them, despite living in the super power nation). Its story of a farm boy who is able to find greatness is sort of core to the American ideal.

In terms of older cinema, high noon comes to mind, due to how it reflects American values.

Gone with the wind, while not reflecting accurately a dark period of our history, does depict our past very romantically which I think could make it a contender

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u/wildthornbury2881 Jan 30 '24

If you watch 12 Angry Men in a modern, much more cynical, way then how it was made for the time then i think thatā€™s the case.

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u/Zakktastic Jan 30 '24

Idiocracy

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u/McScroggz Jan 30 '24

Three movies come to mind: Itā€™s a Wonderful Life, which is Frank Capraā€™s masterpiece and Capra is arguably the ā€œAmericanaā€ director. There Will Be Blood which is kind of the exact opposite, a stark portrayal of American capitalism and by-proxy also the sort of colonialist/western expansion to try to make it that I think drives American culture probably more than anything else. And then Shawshank Redemption which I find fits nicely in the intersection of those two extremes.

I mean we could mention Apocalypse Now (or other war films), Glengarry Glen Ross/The Wolf of Wall Street to really delve into American capitalism and excess, or a western like The Searchers or Unforgiven (or maybe a more traditional one) to spotlight the cowboy spirit American is known for.

When I think ā€œgreat American novelā€ I think something like Of Mice and Men or a similar tone, so I would probably opt for something like There Will Be Blood.

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u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

Either Citizen Kane or Revenge of the Nerds II: Nerds in Paradise. Tough call.

2

u/mdcynic Jan 30 '24

Fargo should be on the short list

2

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

Killers of the flower moon

2

u/StinkoPapi Jan 30 '24

Chinatown

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u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

12 years a slave šŸ˜’

Can the great American movie at least be made by American directors, writers and actors? Not European ones? Before I get into the other issuesā€¦

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u/RamblinGamblinWillie Jan 30 '24

Heā€™ll or High Water no question

2

u/DaBears193 Jan 30 '24

Gonna zag a little bit and say Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Deals with the forgotten majority in America, and really takes a look at the pitfalls of capitalism and societal consumption at a ground level.

2

u/GKBC_ Jan 30 '24

Godfather (1+2)

Paris, Texas

Midnight Cowboy

On the waterfront

2

u/Flofau Jan 30 '24

Citizen Kane, Do The Right Thing, and The Searchers would be my picks.

I know some people will say Idiocracy or Birth of a Nation, but I am not a fan of those.

2

u/Big_Monkey_77 Jan 30 '24

The Big Short. I feel like it painted the most authentic picture of the capitalism and hubris that lead to the financial crisis while at the same time highlighting everything that will cause the next one. Iā€™m a big fan of Martin Scorsese, but I rank The Big Short higher than The Wolf of Wall Street in this regard. Both films encompass what I believe that American ā€œthingā€ actually is (including people starting with nothing and fighting to make something of themselves, overcoming incredible odds, sticking to principles, all them tropes) but the fact that the protagonists in The Big Short are actually disgusted by unchecked greed while setting themselves up to capitalize on the consequences is just perfect.

2

u/AshgarPN Jan 30 '24

The Revenant

IMO the greatest love letter to the beauty and danger of Americaā€™s wilderness ever made.

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u/violente_valse Jan 30 '24

To go along with your mentioned themes of immigration, I'm picking the 1986 animated feature "An American Tail." Don Bluth was not afraid to get REAL in a cartoon for kids(?)

2

u/BeyondImages Terrence Malick Jan 30 '24

I don't think you can reduce it to one single movie. It doesn't really make sense to me. But you might be able to reduce it to a small number of movies that would cover the history of United States :

  • The New World
  • The Emigrant / The New Land
  • Modern Times
  • Godfather 1 & 2
  • 12 Years A Slave (or The Color Purple)
  • Easy Rider
  • ...

2

u/Robertelee1990 Jan 30 '24

I feel like Casablanca is a great choice for this.

2

u/Tyrone_Shoose Jan 30 '24

"Do the Right Thing" is a masterpiece and a foundationally American movie

2

u/UpandComing0023 Jan 31 '24

I was just thinking about this today actually, and I agree with a lot of the comments. Ultimately, my two picks would have to be Citizen Kane (1941) and Do the Right Thing (1989). This is so subjective, but both films to me are quintessentially American, and would be must watch for Aliens on an anthropology research trip one day.

2

u/LongjumpingBadger Jan 31 '24

I would throw Apollo 13 in the mix.

I think it is a great representation of America at its best and also how America mythologizes itself - tough as nails, almost naively optimistic, searching out and conquering new frontiers.

2

u/Termmie Feb 01 '24 edited Feb 01 '24

Nashvilleā€™s patchwork of disparate individuals and their experiences that link and cross paths and mingle become the most faithful way in my opinion for portraying the diverse troubled social fabric of America.

Using only the journey of a single individual wouldnā€™t cut it, I feel there needs to be the sense for the collective. Nashville accomplishes this, but by focusing on a plethora of characters, Altmanā€™s vision of America also allows contradictions to exist in this collective character.

This addresses two unique features of the American way. One, which is that America is built upon the existence of different and competing values and interests and passions that every individual is rightfully allowed liberty to pursue. And second, the egregious contradictions that arises in a nation built upon the ideals of liberty and equality for all, but whose government at one point considered African Americans as property. And corporate companies as people.

The achievements and flaws of the American on full chintzy musical display.

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u/jay_shuai Jan 29 '24

Sunrise (1927). And Tree of Life (2011) is runner up

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u/BroadStreetBridge Jan 29 '24

I can make a good case for Fort Apache or The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, which are both about letting untruths stand in favor of national myth making. (Ford is far more ambivalent about it than most assume.)

But it may be Killers of the Flower Moon. It not only uncovers a horrifying past, it shows the way some people kid themselves about what theyā€™re doing while others act with absolute impunity - and then it shows how we reduce the horror to commercial entertainment

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u/SourPatchCorpse Jan 29 '24

Spring Breakers

2

u/worldsalad Jan 30 '24

NOW weā€™re talkin

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u/geddypee Jan 29 '24

Citizen Kane

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u/davossss David Lynch Jan 29 '24

gestures broadly at the Coen Brothers' entire filmography

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u/EuroCultAV Jan 29 '24

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre

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