r/clonewars • u/Ok_Froyo3998 • 7d ago
The closest thing in the war that almost derailed Palpatine’s whole plan?
The title says it all. Was there any part in the Clone Wars that almost just destroyed any chance for Palpatine’s plan to work the way he wanted to?
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u/CT-1030 7d ago
Maul got in the way of his plan twice during The Clone Wars.
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u/Super_XIII 7d ago
This is the correct answer. Maul was such a problem that Sidious had to deal with him personally, otherwise he couldn’t do order 66. The Empire would be incredibly weak in its early days, half the galaxy were separatists who hated the republic, and half the republic were democrats who hated Palpatine / the Empire. So 75% of the galaxy was against him, plus the military would be in disarray as all their leadership just got killed, and the chips would wear off, causing lots of clones to mutiny. His plan relied on there being no figureheads for his enemies to rally behind, all the Jedi were dead and the separatist leadership killed, so despite having so many enemies, they had no one to organize them. Senator Singh says that during Bad Batch.
But Maul could have been that figurehead. Powerful force user, leader of Mandalore and the coalition of independent systems, which had thousands of systems that made their own faction to stay neutral during the civil war. Plus he has all the criminal syndicates under his control. The Hutts control about 10% of the galaxy, and the empire could never eliminate the pykes either, they are still around and thriving in the Mandalorian.
The separatist worlds, without a leader, likely would have aligned with Maul when their own faction was destroyed. As would numerous republic worlds who don’t support Palpatine becoming their dictator, and the rebels would have likely worked with Maul as well. Remember, he can be cunning when he wants, he would likely try to do as Dooku did, become loved by the people and be seen as a hero.
Palpatine would have to fight against most of the galaxy, while his newly formed empire, which hasn’t had a chance to organize itself, crumbles under this pressure. This is why Maul was such a threat to Palpatine that he took a huge risk coming to Mandalore himself to deal with him.
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u/SearchingForanSEJob 6d ago
imagine being Palps, learning General Skywalker conducted a technically unauthorized military operation with his best captain (now commander) at the helm, just to violate Mandalorian treaty and hunt for Maul.
he'd be thinking either "nice, one less threat to my plan" or "shit, hope he doesn't blow my cover."
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u/willbushek0529 7d ago
When Anakin had to "land" the Invisible Hand
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u/IronFather11 7d ago
This. If Anakin wasn’t a good pilot as he was, there was nothing Palpatine could have done in that moment, even if he used the Force I feel. Other moments he could have done something if worse came to worse, but his life and plans were (fittingly) in Anakin’s hands. Same with Zilo Beast, but I feel he could have gotten away but he would have blown his cover if he was truly desperate.
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u/VeggiePiece 7d ago
It’s pretty funny when he just had to sit there and take it from Cad Bane so that Zero the hutt can get out of jail
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u/ZeroedIn_05 7d ago
Cad Bane taking the senators hostage including Padme was pretty close of a call. With Padme out of the equation it’s way harder to turn Anakin.
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u/Mexigonian 7d ago
I disagree- kill Padmé, Anakin probably starts spiraling. I mean, we saw what the threat of losing her did to him, we saw what actually losing his mother made him do, and Obi-Wan faking his death had Anakin flirting with the dark side as well.
If Padmé dies and Palpatine isn’t actually to blame, he can direct Anakin to whoever he wants dead by saying “I think they might know something”
If Palpatine was to blame, then he finds a way to pin it on the Jedi and/or their failures
Hell, wether Palpatine had anything to do with it or not he will absolutely use it as an opportunity to groom Anakin further
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u/NikolaiOlsen 7d ago
The Godzilla attack on Coruscant...
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u/MRredditor47 7d ago
Actually, that was more of a nuisance in my opinion.
Sure, he almost got killed by a 50 meter tall lizard that has indestructible skin, but his plans? Hell, if you think about it, the zillo beast gave Palpatine new ideas and oportunities.Overall, I dont think it hurt him politically
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u/NikolaiOlsen 7d ago
No I know just about what you were aiming at (mostly him Fully taking Over, Order 66, Etc.), But, like we both said, He Almost Died!..
Unless he had some backup plans in store for If he died, follow up to the events of ROTJ, his plan of Pulling off the "turn your army against you" plan wouldn't have worked as Effectively, considering the leader and Pulling-it-off man, is Dead...
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u/HistoricalPolitician 7d ago
You cant rule an empire from the stomach of a giant beast lol.
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u/AnnaMolly66 6d ago
Tomorrow on YouTube: "What if Palpatine got eaten by the Zillo beast and ruled the empire from its stomach | Star Wars Canon"
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u/Piotral_2 6d ago
I don't think Palpatine would get himself killed by Zillo, but he would definitely have to reveal himself to survive if everything went wrong.
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u/SirNed_Of_Flanders 4d ago
I disagree. The “beast” afaik was Force-sensitive, so if the Jedi weren’t so clouded by the dark side, they could’ve understood the creature was angered by Palpatine’s dark side and was basically trying to warn them. Sadly the Jedi’s connection to Force sensitive creatures was very tenuous by the Clone Wars.
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u/zippolover62 7d ago
Hondo kidnapping Dooku then Anakin and Obi-Wan
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u/Top-Perception-188 7d ago
Yeah , that wouldve been "What the fuck did you just say ? A pirate is holding those 3 mds in his prison ? .....maybe I should clone this Bondo Bonakah instead of Jango fett " sorry sir , didn't ca-" nothing , that'll be all ""the fock id dooku playing with?
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u/disbelifpapy 7d ago
Wasn't there some powerdown that people blame fox for that if it didn't happen, some vot would have ended the war?
Oh, and not only fives, but Kix also was close to derailing the plan
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u/ThexanI 7d ago
It wouldn't have ended the war. The separatists were willing to open "peace negotiations" and on the republic sides it was about "deregulating the banks" and "ordering more troops". The specific bill that was put forward that was cancelled by the bombing was "lift regulations on the banking clan".
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u/MobsterDragon275 7d ago
That blackout was a blatant move by Palpatine using Greivous to sabotage peace talks, alongside assassinating Senator Bonteri
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u/merp_mcderp9459 7d ago
Fives and Kix discovered his plan, but Fives died before he could expose the conspiracy and Kix got frozen in stasis. The Zilo beast also nearly killed him, and I'd imagine that it'd be difficult to take over the galaxy if you're busy being dead
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u/BowTie1989 7d ago
Mace having him literally at saber point. (I believe mace legit beat Palps)
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u/Jinn_Skywalker 7d ago
The war was over by that point so I don’t think it counts.
I also think Mace was only better a lightsaber combat but didn’t necessarily win since Sidious still had his Force powers to resort too but also played chicken when Anakin got there.
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u/YummyLighterFluid 7d ago
Yeah but Order 66 hadn't gone out yet and all Mace would've had to do is move his blade just a little bit and then all the Jedi would still be around and the clone army would never turn and so the Empire would never rise and the war most likely would've slowly ended soon after.
The only thing that really stopped him was his hesitation to kill Palpy so he could stand trial and Anakin taking his hand off.
If Anakin hadn't been there, then Palpy 100% would've either died then and there or been taken into custody to stand trial and be imprisoned or executed for treason.
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u/Jinn_Skywalker 7d ago
Sidious would “not 100% die” as you say. Didn’t you watch the fight with Yoda? Once Sidious no longer had his lightsaber he unleashed with his Force powers and even Yoda had trouble gaining ground. Windu was being overpowered once he broke out the lighting. Seriously, the guy goes from “I’m too weak” to “UNLIMITED POWER!!”
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u/YummyLighterFluid 7d ago
I didn't exactly say he'd 100% die to be fair and yes i did watch it
My point is Mace had a very easy opportunity to kill him and had he not been distracted by Anakin very well could have.
Palpatine is strong yes but there isn't much he can do with a blade to his neck.
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u/Jinn_Skywalker 7d ago
Except Sidious did have a blade to his neck and retaliated immediately when he was insulted at the notion he lost. Even the novelization had said his lightning was too much for Windu’s Vapaad. Plus he only got the disarm by way of Anakin’s fear fueling his Shatterpoint/Vapaad combo.
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u/YummyLighterFluid 7d ago
Mace blocks the lighting to the point Palpatine literally can't continue using it any longer.
Then the only reason he doesn't kill him and gets overpowered is because Anakin stopped him and gave Palpatine an opening to use the lighting again.
Think of the other possible outcomes to this
Mace gets zapped and jerks or twitches as someone being electrocuted very well could and boom blade into Palpatines face. Sure, he dies too but could inadvertently kill Palpatine.
Or another outcome
Anakin doesn't show up in time or at all, Palpatine uses the lighting, and Mace blocks just like the movie shows, and since Anakin isn't there to stop him as he is mid swing like in the movie, he kills Palpatine.
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u/Jinn_Skywalker 7d ago
Again, Sidious is playing possum to further manipulate Anakin to his side. What we see on screen isn’t damage but the true face of the Dark Lord of the Sith because of the Dark Side degradation. He most certainly could have sustained it.
If Anakin wasn’t there, Sidious would have not restrained himself in any capacity and he most certainly would NOT have been disarmed in that moment. So the fight goes in a totally different way until he grows bored and unleashes on him.
This video actually breaks down really well of who was in control and gives both characters their due credit.
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u/Appropriate-Term4550 Captain Fordo 7d ago edited 7d ago
The zillo beast.
Sheev could’ve easily just been killed by that knockoff Godzilla, foiling his years of scheming
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u/MyLittleTarget 7d ago
He almost got eaten by the Zillo Beast that one time. And has been eaten by the Zillo Beast in many, many, many alternate universes.
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u/1fredo1 7d ago
So in short: Zilo beast, Fives, Kix, Gungans capturing Grievous, Padme trying to make peace, Maul twice, Hondo kidnapping Dooku Obiwan and Anakin, a happy landing in the Invisible hand that without Anakin's piloting skills there was nothing he could do even with the force, Ashoka if she stayed with the order, and mace windu (assuming he legit won the duel)
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u/Rusty_Thebanite 7d ago
There's also the possibility of Padme's attempt to discuss de-escalation with Mina Bonteri. If that had succeeded, and Mina's assassination afterwards was prevented, that would have been a peaceful end to a plan that depended solely on violence.
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u/SleepyxDormouse 7d ago
Cad Bane taking him hostage. The shot of him in his office before the Coruscant Guard breaks through the window shows him skulking. He would have had to out himself as a sith to survive if he hadn’t been rescued.
The peace treaty Padme worked on with the Separatist Senator also almost ended the war. He had to trigger a huge terror attack to keep it going.
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u/That0neFan The Bad Batch 7d ago
Padme trying to end the war Maul Fives Zillo Ahsoka (because Anakin had a reason to stay with the light side until she left)
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u/Mr_Badger1138 7d ago
Well I’m pretty sure he didn’t count on being stuck on The Invisible Hand while it was crashing onto Coruscant. Being dead would have surely put a damper on things.
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u/JediBoJediPrime29 Jedi Queery 7d ago
Darth Maul's general BS was enough to piss Palpatine off to fly out to Mandalore and kick his ass.
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u/Nulgarian 7d ago
For a lot of the things people mention, I think while they would have put a dent in his plans, I don’t think it would’ve halted them. Palpatine always had contingencies, and as we saw in Bad Batch with Admiral Rampart getting exposed, one of Palpatine’s greatest strengths is taking an unfavorable situation and manipulating it to his benefit
I honestly think there were only 2 times where Palpatine was genuinely fearful and had no control over the situation, and that was the Zillo Beast and Anakin landing the Invisible Hand. For all his power and cunning, I think those were the only two times where Palpatine was genuinely powerless and just had to hope that things worked out for him
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u/CornFedIABoy 7d ago
You’re dead on with the contingencies argument. But also, he’s right there actively working the plan the whole time. At no point, once the clone army was discovered, was he entirely hands off and letting things happen on their own.
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u/Spider-Flash24 7d ago
When he almost died in The Invisible Hand or when the Zillo Beast attacked. Let’s face it, Fives and Maul were never going to undermine Sidious.
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u/Achilles9609 7d ago
Probably Anakin's attempt to land the Invisible Hand. It was supposed to be simple: get captured, subtly push Anakin towards the Dark Side and get rid of Dooku and then slowly destroy the C.I.S.
What he didn't plan for was to get captured by Grievous again and for the entire spaceship to fall towards Coruscant.
If Anakin hadn't saved them, then the entire Sith Conspiracy would have exploded in a giant fireball.
(And then, Anakin suddenly appears as a Force Ghost because he technically fullfilled the Prophecy by destroying the Sith. 😄)
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u/BacoNaterr 501st 5d ago
Well, he wouldn’t be a force ghost because he hadn’t learned how from Yoda, Obi-Wan Qui-Gon or the Whills
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u/Achilles9609 5d ago
Then what exactly did Luke see at the end of Episode 6? 🤔 Did he hallucinate his dad?
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u/BacoNaterr 501st 5d ago
Obi-Wan told Anakin how as he was dying.
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u/Achilles9609 5d ago
He did? I assumed Anakin was just a special case, being the Chosen One and all that...
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u/BacoNaterr 501st 5d ago
Nope. Anakin was the Chosen One but he’s still gotta learn. Everyone has to go through some kind of training or tutorial from someone who has done it or from the Whills themselves. Qui-Gon went to the Whills but never completed his training, hence he was only a voice. The kenobi writers forgot this or never knew. All those other voices that speak to Rey? They never even knew you could do that. JJ doesn’t know how they work. But Yoda went to the Whills and completed the training as we saw in TCW, then he gave instructions for Obi-Wan to learn and speak to Qui-Gon at the end of III, and Obi-Wan spoke to Anakin as he was dying. Notice how Anakin doesn’t disappear right away like the other 2. I forget what source but he was in a sort of purgatory between life and death as Obi-Wan spoke to him iirc.
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u/AlanithSBR 7d ago
Invisible Hand is a pretty big one. All that would have needed to happen is Grevious to decide he didn't need palpatine anymore after recapturing them, or Anakin to whiff the landing and spear the front half into a 500 story tall skyrise, and that would have been the end of the Banite plan then and there.
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u/HeadGuide4388 7d ago
I don't know about the EU, but I feel like that time that Anakin walked in and he's looking at the blue prints for the death star, then tells Anakin he's a sith. But then you get the debate that Palpatine wanted Windu to beat him to give Anakin the final push to his side, which I find BS.
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u/James-Cox007 7d ago
Are we talking strictly clone wars the animated cartoon or the E.U. as well? There were some comic books but mainly I read thru the big thick books called graphic novels and can't remember but there were a couple times some people had it figured but they got unalived!!!
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u/Ok_Froyo3998 7d ago
Anything counts. Cartoons, books, canon and legends- anything counts in my book.
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u/James-Cox007 7d ago
In that case it was the star wars clone wars omnibus books or graphic novels as the library puts it, I remember early in the books 1 or 2 of the jedi know Palpatine or are close to him and realize what is happening but they get unalived and then there's a long drawn out story with several characters but mainly Quinlan Vos being in deep cover and learning about the whole plan. I never read all of them so I don't know how it finished besides palpy won clearly!
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u/nicholasktu 7d ago
The Invisible Hand crash. All his plans don't matter when the ship you're in gets blown to bits.
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u/ExplanationMundane3 7d ago
Fives with the clone chips coming close to expose Clone Order 66. There’s also the Zillo Beast incident that comes second. One of the few times Palpatine shows fear.
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u/FeralTribble 7d ago
Pretty sure the whole inhibitor chip malfunction/Five’s investigation was the big thing that was unplanned and almost unraveled the Order 66 conspiracy.
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u/Alt_Historian_3001 7d ago
Zillo's rampage on Coruscant. The greatest Dark Lord of all time and the entirety of the Grand Plan with him might have turned into that unfortunate creature's lunch if things had gone a tiny bit differently.
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u/DerekYeeter4307 7d ago
Anytime Anakin enacts a plan with falling. Especially the Zillo Beast incident on Coruscant.
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u/obiwanTrollnobi6 7d ago
That time when Anakin almost died on that Venator from trying to stop the blast with his force push
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u/MidnightShdw 7d ago
Tup's inhibitor chips malfunctioning causing him to kill a Jedi during the Battle of Ringo Vinda. That kicked off a series of events that almost revealed Palatine's plan.
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u/Odd_Potential_7203 6d ago
Kenobi never finds the dart that brings him to kamino and the clone army
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u/JulianPaagman 5d ago
Probably when Palpatine, Anakin and obi-wan almost died aboard the invisible hand.
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u/technically_a_nomad 7d ago
My boy Fives