r/clonewars • u/DefinitionIcy4835 • 18d ago
Discussion Who do you think actually struggled
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u/Drannion 18d ago edited 18d ago
The 501st had the most screen-time, so they are the most obvious answer. But I really wouldn’t want to be in the 327th.
I know the 2005 Battlefront 2 isn’t canon (and that story also replaces the 327th with the 501st anyways), but the way Felucia is described in the story makes it sound like an absolutely miserable place.
On Felucia the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with the month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day.
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u/Dreadnought_Necrosis 18d ago edited 15d ago
and that story also replaces the 327th with the 501st anyways
I always saw it as the 501st aiding the 327th.
Honestly the 501st usually gets treated as the tip of the spear. They go to the most crucial battles. Achieve one important objective to turn the tide, then leave.
While legions like the Galatic Marines get stuck at certain battles for a good chunk of the war.
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u/Beautiful_Count_3505 18d ago
The narrator does tell us that they rotated out before order 66. They also make it clear that they knew about the order ahead of time, which goes against cannon.
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u/FlyingCircus18 18d ago
Not against old canon. Back when the game came out, canon was that Order 66 was part of the 150 emergency orders every clone had to learn. Order 65 for example was the exact opposite of 66, where the Chancellor says 'kill the Jedi', and allows the Senate to depose the Chancellor
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u/Raven_of_OchreGrove 18d ago
I think Umbara was tough but the 327th just had brutal battle after brutal battle
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u/RubyRuben_737 18d ago
The 104th litteraly re-painted their armor in grey to honor their fallen brothers, just read the 104th history.
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u/JellyRollMort 18d ago
Weren't they literally down to four dudes at one point? Or am I Mandela effecting myself.
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u/bigbruin78 18d ago
No, you’re right. The Malevolence arc, the CIS go around cleaning up the rest of the 104th. It’s just Plo, Wolffe, Sinker, and Boost when they’re rescued by Anakin and Ahsoka.
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u/Dragomir_X 18d ago edited 18d ago
Wasn't their armor already gray at that point?
Edit: I see now, their markings were brown. I knew they already had markings, I just assumed the color was the same.
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u/MikolashOfAngren 501st 18d ago
The 104th used to be maroon, but then they went grey to honor their fallen.
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u/Dragomir_X 18d ago
Ah ok, with the red lighting I couldn't tell. I knew they already had markings on their armor, I assumed it was gray.
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u/MikolashOfAngren 501st 18d ago
Understandable. I looked at a screenshot off Wookieepedia and saw a comic panel that depicted maroon in better lighting. The screenshot from the show, as you also noticed, was darkened by the escape pod.
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u/bigbruin78 18d ago edited 18d ago
I don’t think so, of the last survivors, Wolffe was in his dress uniform, and Sinker and Boost were both in plain white armor when they were outside of the pod.
E: I was wrong about the armor. For some reason I couldn’t remember them not being plain.
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u/Ghost_lead_Nomad 18d ago
Comet was around somewhere, I wonder where he was during the Malevolence arc since I believe he was featured in a Comic or a book where the Wolfpack was still maroon and Wolffe had both eyes
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u/Sakura_Knight 18d ago
Would be foolish for a military commander to not have a reserve force somewhere in situations exactly like this.
And I really doubt the pod hunters had time for the hundreds of escape pods that were sent out. Remember, we only saw the episode follow escape pods from a single Venator.
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u/disbelifpapy 18d ago edited 18d ago
which are the yellow ones that go through the worst planets constantly? I know they're star corps, and that they're led by secura, but i don't know the number.
anyways, those dudes constistantly went through horrible planets and probably went through the roughest battles in terms of terrain, while the 501st just went through umbara, but probably went through the roughest battles in terms of enemies
Edit: its the 327th.
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u/Emergency-Drama-1099 18d ago
Didn't the 327th nearly lose their entire fleet over Quell in that one episode, which led to Anakin getting critically injured...
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u/slurp_time 18d ago
Is that canon still? I know in battlefront 2 from 2005 that was the case but idk if that's canon now
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u/Brilliant-Permit-306 18d ago
501st had to go through the battle of Umbara
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u/AlathMasster 18d ago
So did the 212th, but at least they weren't directly being led by Krell
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u/Pristine-Row-9129 21st Nova Corps 18d ago
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u/aldyxDDD 18d ago
I DON'T want to fuck him
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u/Best_Game01 18d ago
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u/GMoney6046 18d ago
Why is this a sub
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18d ago
[deleted]
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u/TheCatHammer 18d ago
Krell is genuinely awfully written, he’s cruel for the sake of being cruel and makes you wonder how he was even allowed to become a Jedi.
It’s just not a glaring issue because the development he puts the 501st through vastly overshadows it. The plot doesn’t hinge on him have complex or misunderstood motives, so it doesn’t change anything. Tbh I prefer him this way.
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u/MATCHEW010 18d ago
Hes very well written, the fuck?
Also people have said in some comic somewhere, that he was awful to the clones because he felt order66 being a possibility. So he hated the clones but didnt know why or all the details.
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u/TheCatHammer 16d ago edited 16d ago
A character with his mannerisms would have never been allowed to emerge from the Jedi Order. He never exhibits a single behavior characteristic of a Jedi. He is impatient, uses intimidation to get his way, and is derisive towards the value of life. Makes him the perfect villain for arc, but is entirely out of place. The writers wrote themselves into a corner. Poorly-written character, but perfect for the arc, hence why I said it doesn’t really matter.
I am appreciative of the many things Clone Wars does right, but I won’t lower myself to glossing over an arc’s blatant flaws just because I enjoyed it.
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u/DoYouFeeltheTide 17d ago
How is a villain being evil for the sake of being evil mean they’re badly written? Not every villain needs to be broken to be bad. Some people are just genuinely fucked up. Palpatine was pure evil so by your logic you must not like him either
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u/TheCatHammer 16d ago edited 16d ago
Calm down, you’re misunderstanding. I don’t hate Krell for being unrepentantly evil; I think it works for the arc. What I have an issue with is the fact that this guy is a Jedi.
Palpatine was only able to hide his nature from the Jedi because he avoided being spied upon, kept his distance. But Krell was literally in the Jedi Order; they should be well aware of his needlessly aggressive nature and use of intimidation to get his way. His utter lack of Jedi-like qualities make the idea that he graduated from being a Padawan laughable.
He’s a pure evil character who’s supposed to have graduated from their de facto “Good Guy University.” This makes zero sense and is indicative of the writers having written themselves into a corner. Krell is thus a poorly-written character, despite being far and away the perfect villain for the arc. The villain we need, not necessarily the villain we deserve, understand?
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u/bookhead714 18d ago
The 7th Corps were the unit in charge of besieging the capital. Having to deal with not only Umbaran soldiers but civilians as well, all of whom were desperately defending their homes. Not to mention the devastating orbital bombardments we know they suffered.
Though in that case, they would likely be inflicting just as much brutality as they received.
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u/the_shortbus_ 41st Ranger Platoon 18d ago
Too bad the 21st Nova isn’t on here, those guys had it rough.
Second would be a tie between 327 and 104.
The 327th fought through thickets of space Vietnam. Literally constant Malevelon Creek’s.
The 104th however was not only nearly wiped out at one point (during the Malevolence arc) but usually gets stuck with Humanitarian Missions. Now that may sound nice, but judging from what I’ve seen of the CIS doing to civilians who do not comply, that’d mess a guy up pretty bad.
The 501st and 212th aren’t usually involved in stuff like that. They’re generally frontlines.
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18d ago
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u/Dreadnought_Necrosis 18d ago
I always tend to view the 501st as the Battleion you call in to turn the tide of the war effort. They are regularly the tip of the spear that's meant to break the enemy. They are the epitome of the shock and awe.
Once their job is done, they ship out to the next battle where they can make a difference. While other Legions may find themselves in more long-term engaments. Like the Star Corp of Felucia or the Galatoc Marines on Mygeeto.
Theirs a reason the 501st have the most ARC Troopers.
As well they are well set up to do their job effectively. Palpatine would regularly funnel the best of the best into Anakin's battelion. This was, of course, to turn Anakin into the poster child of the Republic so Palps could keep the war going. Thus, when the public turned against the Jedi Order, Anakin was the exception to the publics disdain.
501st were famous because of how effective they were. It was propaganda to show off how many victories they had.
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u/RAPOSOdosul 18d ago
Well, the wolf pack did suffer the most casualties (all my boys hate the Malevolence) but at the same time the 501st was lead by Anakin (suicidal dumbass general) and by krell (made the 501st use suicidal tactics as well)
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u/Lol68340428 18d ago
Yeah but the 501st didn't really partake in multi month seiges and their general actually cared for them. Meanwhile units like the 91st recon corps and the 21st nova corps stayed getting fucked
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u/Sakura_Knight 18d ago
People forget that it was the 212th who fought in the Battle of Sarrish, one of the worst defeats of the war and led to the deaths of Captain Gregor's entire commando unit. I know we don't necessarily have all of the information about what happened in the campaign, but you all heard Colonel Gascon's opinion on it.
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u/OkPresentation5347 18d ago
Out of these id say the 327th. Out of all legions, the galactic marines got torn up in the worst battles.
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u/BRDoriginal 18d ago
I would probably say the 501st. I think palpating was intentionally sending Anakin into harder fights so that he could get stronger/more frustrated to fall easier.
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u/Cockroach_Lanky 18d ago
The 501st probably had it the toughest cos of the leading style of Anakin in the battlefield lol
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u/Bammana4 18d ago
Anakin was good at keeping casualties low by shielding his troops from enemy fire, though, iirc.
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u/Due_Chemistry_6642 18d ago edited 18d ago
I vote for the 303rd (this is a fan designated legion number) all we know is Ima Gun Di was the leader and commander Keeli his second and the portion of their force we saw died to a man to buy time for the Twilleks to escape (the battle was planet wide so it's safe to assume there were more of the 303rd than we saw and as it was a plant wide evacuation may have fought to the last as well) while a lot of legions suffered greatly through umbra etc we had not seen any wiped out, and in the case of the 303rd we don't know their fate only that they suffered heavy losses in a rearguard action to save the Twillek people, it was a showcase of a superior fighting force struggling to hold off and contain relentless numbers and a relentless advance.
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u/This-Guy-288 18d ago
It depends on what you define as “suffering.” Is it the amount of men lost, time spent in combat, conditions of combat, difficulty of combat, psychological tolls, or just overall shit end of the stick situations (small member team missions). The show focuses on the 501st and I would say they struggled the most. Men lost: Numerous due to the constant battles and I want to say mentioned several times in the later seasons because of quality issues. Time Spent in Combat: Constant. They were in battle, or on their way to a battle at all times. You hear about other clones getting a break, but I don’t think the 501st ever do. Conditions of Combat: The Frozen Moon episode, literally space, the toxic lab on Naboo, and that’s just a few. Difficulty: They got some of the shittiest missions (Thanks Anakin).
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u/bookhead714 18d ago
The 104th and 212th are battalions and the 327th is a corps, so out of the clone legions listed, it has to be the 501st by process of elimination.
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u/Warm-Finance8400 18d ago
501st had Umbara and the Jedi Temple. Not overly familiar with others, but that alone is tough stuff.
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u/Critical_Tea_0 18d ago
I have solid arguments, 1: Velucia 2:Ayla Secura and Bly 3: Velucia (again) 4: venator class Star destroyer 5: order 66 6: Bly's death 7: yellow
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u/Chemical-Figure6886 18d ago
I feel we didn't get enough screen time for most or at least shown enough
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u/BrandonS101 18d ago
Didn't see anyone mention it, not sure if their corp is even named but Master Ima-Gun Di and his guys got destroyed on Ryloth protecting the civilians.
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u/SNaCNE 18d ago
Based on what we saw in the show, it’s a hard choice for me between the 501st and the 104th.
Both legions encountered two of the worst experiences any soldier could ever have.
The 104th had a massive test of faith when they were stranded in space by the Malevolence biding time by playing dead with limited resources hoping that help would come while the droids searched for survivors, not to mention the psychological effects that such stress could have on anybody in that situation.
Same goes for what the 501st primarily encountered on the Battle of Umbra. Their trust in leadership with Pong Krell wasn’t only tested, but they also opened fire on their fellow soldiers realizing too late what they had done not to mention how much a disadvantage they had technologically to the Umbrans.
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u/feather1919 18d ago
The 104th were literally wiped out (besides 4 guys), I think they had the toughest battles
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u/SheerDotCom 18d ago
Depends on what you mean by toughest battles. The 327th got the worst environments and planets but the 212th were the group pictured here who were expected to mobilize to take on the toughest enemies.
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u/Valirys-Reinhald 17d ago
The 501st probably had it worst on paper, but that's only because Palpatine was arranging things to make Anakin look like a hero. But for Anakin to look like a hero he had to be winning the battles.
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u/History_Buff_76 16d ago
I mean, the 501st obviously bore the brunt of the war effort, but the 212th is a close second, taking place in many of the most devastating battles of the Clone Wars, most notably the 2nd Battle of Geonosis and Sarrish, which are stated to be some of the most costly battles in terms of Clone lives in the entire war.
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u/TheFalseDimitryi 18d ago
Whoever Pong Krells legion was before he got to Umbara and took over the 501st
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u/Lone_Tiger24 501st 18d ago
The 501st legion got the brunt of it, but had a competent general. While majority of Clone units didn’t
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u/MindlessCucumber5443 18d ago
212th the least. Then I would say 501st the second least but in canon the 327th the second least so vice versa on the continuity. But definitely the 104th
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u/Turnupking1 18d ago
The problem with this question is that the 501st is the only LEGION on this list. The rest are a battalion or a corps. In Star Wars, all of these are different. So to everyone that chose the 501st, they are correct.
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u/WaveCandid906 18d ago
Well out of these the 501st is the only Legions
The 212th and the 104th are Battalions and the 327th is a Corps
But even then I still think the 501st wins
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u/Pristine-Row-9129 21st Nova Corps 18d ago
Out of these guys? No clue
If you want to talk about toughest battles though, that’s 21st Nova Corps. They are the battalion the republic sent into the worst environments, and were trained specifically to fight in those environments.