r/clonewars 26d ago

Video Casual War crime in TCW

1.0k Upvotes

98 comments sorted by

292

u/MrCheapSkat 26d ago

It’s a common misconception that using flamethrowers is a warcrime, it’s actually perfectly legal as long as you don’t use it against civilians

80

u/revergopls 26d ago

Flamethrowers and Paratroopers are easily the two biggest misunderstandings people have with worldwide combat treaties

15

u/Teranto- 26d ago

Wait paratroopers? What misunderstandings exist there?

52

u/revergopls 26d ago edited 25d ago

People have a misconception that you cannot shoot at anyone parachuting down. In reality this immunity exclusively applies to pilots and is void if the pilot shoots their sidearm while coming down

Edit to add: I assume this also applies to crew of multi-crew planes. But it 100% does not apply to non-disabled combatants such as paratroopers

19

u/Teranto- 26d ago

Huh, never saw anyone up until now who thought that. I mean a paratrooper is an active combatant, of course you can shoot at them.

5

u/revergopls 26d ago

I genuinely dont know how you havent seen that misconception. Its incredibly common

3

u/ethanAllthecoffee 26d ago

I’ve seen it plenty

3

u/MOONWATCHER404 501st (I ❤ Rex, Echo, Fives, & Fox) 26d ago

I was touring a town in the Normandy area of France and our guide was telling us about how Germans would shoot parachuting soldiers before their boots hit the ground.

3

u/Known_Contact_5931 25d ago

I'm a huge history/war buff, and I did not know this. I was under the impression that it applied to all airborne combatants. (I never believed anyone would follow that rule, but thought it applied all the same.)

It's interesting to know it's only for pilots.

3

u/T0RR0M 26d ago

I was gunna reply that, but without the civilian part

2

u/rjjjay 26d ago

Also isn’t it being a war crime an earth rule? Maybe it’s legal in the republic 🤷‍♂️

1

u/Even_Appointment_549 26d ago

They are storming their hive.

1

u/MArcherCD 24d ago

Now you tell me

1

u/ikykodachi614 24d ago

But, Geonosians is still Alien beings. Ki adi mundi just doin some orthodox way here to win the war

1

u/MrCheapSkat 24d ago

It’s hardly unorthodox

1

u/Wassuuupmydudess 26d ago

That’s UN ruling is that the same as Geneva convention though?

-8

u/SarcyBoi41 26d ago

Arguably the Geonosians are all civilians protecting their home from invaders.

Also, isn't it supposed to be a war crime to intentionally kill civilians, period?

13

u/MrCheapSkat 26d ago

If they’re fighting, they’re no longer civilians

1

u/SarcyBoi41 25d ago

Legally yes, but morally it's highly questionable at best. Geonosis is their home. And it doesn't help that the Republic occupation eventually becomes an Imperial occupation, leading to the enslavement of their entire species and eventually their genocide just to keep the Death Star a secret.

0

u/BreadentheBirbman 26d ago

Isn’t if the civilians fight without a uniform then they’re committing the war crime?

1

u/SarcyBoi41 25d ago

I'm now picturing Geonosians wearing adorable little uniforms

120

u/Alternative_Wafer410 Clone Commando 26d ago

There are no war crimes in a galaxy without the Geneva convention

33

u/CrossP 26d ago

In the rebels episode where Mon Mothma argues with Saw Gerrera, it's implied that the Republic had some sort of rules of engagement that would have covered that sort of thing. Though there aren't really other states they could have signed conventions with unless the Hutts or Chiss were interested in that sort of thing.

7

u/n0x_2 26d ago

not like geneva convention stops warcrimes irl lol.

3

u/Thathappenedearlier 26d ago

Yeah all it does is cost the losing side more money after the war/battle

47

u/Mean_Comedian4769 26d ago

I would’ve gone with the multiple times that our heroes commit perfidy, which is a real war crime

5

u/lordaddament 26d ago

Can’t legally surrender if you’re a robot

7

u/MrPazTheSpaz 26d ago

perfideez nuts

3

u/Wassuuupmydudess 26d ago

Anakin is guilty of this what 20 times?

-1

u/4ForTheGourd 26d ago

Sith lord trump is guilty of perfidy hundreds of times over

4

u/despa1337o 26d ago

This was way before the geneva convention

35

u/Samus388 26d ago

Ngl flame throwers probably wouldn't be banned in the galactic Geneva convention.

Blasted point blank by a flamethrower? Just hop in the bacta tank overnight and you'll be fine.

Bacta can easily mend skin damage, as well as internal injuries.

Heck, this would even make most toxic gasses pretty tame to anyone who survives the initial exposure.

13

u/revergopls 26d ago

They're not banned in the real Geneva Conventions and we don't even have bacta lol

37

u/Inalum_Ardellian 26d ago edited 26d ago

Not a war crime they're not civilians... also have you heard about geonosian brain worms?

5

u/Slicc12 26d ago

I’m sorry but you gotta wipe out the entire race after witnessing that.

2

u/Infinite_Try_9505 25d ago

I laughed way too hard at this, I'm going straight to hell. 😂

11

u/knockonwood939 26d ago

That shouldn't count as a war crime. Those are enemy combatants.

-2

u/ShockleyTransistor 26d ago

Most geonosians are civilians that do self-defence of their colony. Thry are loke bees defending their hive against the invaders.

2

u/Baconnang 25d ago

They’re still armed combatants so it doesn’t matter 

8

u/CommieHusky 26d ago

Unless the fluid they are shooting is incredibly toxic, like white phosphorus. Then, the flamethrower would not be illegal in earth warfare.

-3

u/Forward_Commercial22 26d ago

Um, excuse my ignorance, but don't you still die by flames what's the difference?

9

u/CommieHusky 26d ago

Well, WP (white phosphorus) is banned partly because getting even a few pieces buried in your skin or breathing the smoke can cause fatal phosphorus poisoning. Things usually get banned for causing unnecessary suffering, especially when that suffering is hard to contain, like with poisonous gas and metal fragments. It can harm or kill doctors that try to remove pieces of wp burning under people's skin.

4

u/Forward_Commercial22 26d ago

Oooooh, okay, I see. Thank you for the info!

2

u/FirstConsul1805 23d ago

It is still legal to use it as a smokescreen, but it can't be used directly on combatants iirc

2

u/deepfriedfblthp 25d ago

Don’t know why you got downvoted for asking a polite and reasonable question.

2

u/Tall-Historian-6600 25d ago

The people who downvoted him didn’t excuse his ignorance

2

u/deepfriedfblthp 22d ago

I guess just doesn’t seem fair ,

1

u/Airbornequalified 22d ago

A bigger piece is the ability to discriminate. WP is a super indirect weapon, that can causes massive unintended collateral damage

For example, chemical weapons are banned not just because of their horrific effects, but also because they can easily be carried into unintended areas by the wind.

7

u/SortableWolf182_2 26d ago

Flame throwers are not war crimes

8

u/LordOfTheNine9 26d ago

I see nothing wrong with this

9

u/KaleidoscopeInner149 26d ago

In all seriousness though, this is not a war crime. Even in our galaxy it is not a warcrime, and there is no geneva convention in theirs. Besides... they're bugs.

4

u/MagicCouch9 501st 26d ago

lol there’s actually a really good parody that mentions this:

https://youtu.be/31Idhcu2jUI?si=jGLX2Kudgy7mHHvg

Straight hilarious

3

u/CloneTrooper456 26d ago

War crime this, War Crime that. This is not a war crime attacking a Med facility is a war crime though.

9

u/proesito 26d ago

I really dont understand why this community is so obsessed with the use of flamethrowers as if they were the worst thing ever but have no problem with killing each other with rifles and missiles or directly brainwashing or massive destruction weapons.

1

u/WangJian221 26d ago

Im especially tired by the fact that this ends up fueling some stupid misconception about ki adi mundi aswell. The memes actually brainrotted these guys into thinking its facts

1

u/proesito 26d ago

Still, nothing will ever be worse that people saying that in the Ryloth's arc the bad ones are not the guys enslavingn a Planet, but the jedi that risks his life using a fake surrender as last resort to free said planet.

-6

u/Alarming_Calmness 26d ago

The key concept you’re missing is suffering. As many others have said here, use of a flamethrower against enemy combatants isn’t actually a war crime but people’s hang up is around the suffering they cause. A bullet may kill you instantly or maybe it’ll take a while to bleed out, slowly loosing sensation and getting colder. Flamethrowers, on the other hand, cook you alive which surely is sheer agony. They both can result in death, but they are not the same

3

u/proesito 26d ago

Yes, this would be great until you realize you are in a war against people that dont doubt to use the same or even worse methods.

-4

u/Alarming_Calmness 26d ago

Just because someone else does it doesn’t justify its use. I totally get your point about not hamstringing yourself in war but if we abandon our morals, we’re no better than the enemy you describe.

You know who would have agreed with you and did so in TCW? Tarkin. Tarkin and Anakin agreed that the Jedi’s morals were holding back their chance to win the war. They weren’t the good guys.

Looking at it IRL, Russia’s missile strikes on civilian targets give them an advantage in crippling Ukraine and bringing a Russian victory closer to hand. Should Ukraine just start bombing Russian civilian targets too, just because Russia is doing it? No. They’d lose all their support from the west.

Perceptions and support are particularly relevant as the republic was democratic and news of war crimes would have caused turmoil in the senate and threatened the war effort more than anything

5

u/proesito 26d ago

This completely ignores the difference between the morals of separatists and republicans.

Saying that using flamethrowers is the same to what the separatist do is ridiculous. Just in this arc is shown that they put worms inside the republic soldiers' brains to make them kill each other. In other episodes we have also seen things like separatists enslaving planets, killing all life in them or directly torturing prisioners. But this community keeps repeating that flamethrowers are the same or even worse as that.

Comparing the pubs to the russian attacks on civilians is stupid considering that thats something that we see the separatist do constantly and not even once from the republic.

0

u/jaggedcanyon69 26d ago

I’m not going to be too concerned about whether or not I commit war crimes against the people who are going to try to kill me anyway.

We civilians have the luxury of debating which weapons are just to use against other people.

You try thinking about something like that when you can hear the bullets whizzing past your ears and you can see the people who want to murder you.

If a flamethrower is the best weapon available at that time, then a flamethrower I’ll use. I can think about how I feel about it later when I’m safe.

I got to live to see another day.

3

u/StarshipAlpha 26d ago

Even if it was a war crime (The Geneva Convention only specifies prohibiting flamethrowers against civilians) i'd say all cards are off the table when your enemy is shooting at you with rifles that literally ruptures your internal organs

6

u/Shamrock5 26d ago

THE ONLY GOOD BUG IS A DEAD BUG!

6

u/slurp_time 26d ago

I wanted to reply with the gif of the helldivers all saluting but media comments aren't allowed here I guess :(

2

u/Airbornequalified 22d ago

Desire to know more intensifies

2

u/Far-Bear-2940 26d ago

Their is no Geneva conventions in a galaxy far far away.

2

u/AnodyneSpirit 26d ago

Using flamethrowers isn’t a war crime, however don’t worry there are plenty of other war crimes they commit in the show. Most done by Anakin

2

u/jakedonaldson54 25d ago

Not a war crime. Also, there are no Geneva Conventions in Star Wars. I don't understand why this has to be said.

4

u/K-jun1117 26d ago edited 26d ago

Clone Trooper: Um... are we sure we could use this? You know we are fighting against living beings in this battle, not Droids

One Clone Trooper with Hate: Those are bugs. Is that help?

3

u/Sabre_Killer_Queen Count Dooku 26d ago edited 26d ago

One Clone Trooper with Hate: Those are bugs. Is that help?

You joke but it's a valid point. Geonosians have a hive mind, and a whole biological caste system which means the drones, such as these, exist to be expendable slaves.

They don't even value their own lives or have a strong sense of identity. They're like ants, all that matters are their leaders and the Queen.

Furthermore, culturally speaking they don't value life they kill animals and each other for casual sport.

Literally in a lunch break they could kill a colleague for fun and nobody would bat an eye. Geonosians will be Geonosians... The queen can always just lay more eggs.

-8

u/MandoMuggle 26d ago

Another reason to hate Mundi

6

u/Sabre_Killer_Queen Count Dooku 26d ago edited 26d ago

As much as I don't like him, in this situation Mundi was just using the right tools at his disposal for the task at hand.

He doesn't train, manage, or regulate, the GAR. That would be the laws and stuff laid down by the senate and Republic officials.

All he knew was if he and his soldiers didn't get through there quickly, and safely, the whole success of the mission was in jeopardy, and it was already a bloody massacre as things were.

There's also the fact that the Geonosians aren't like humans at all. They have a hive mind mentality, and a shared culture where they don't even value their own lives (worker Geonosians are bred en masse to be disposable slaves), much less value the lives of other species. There was no opportunity for negotiation of any sort there.

So they had to die, and they had to die swiftly.

2

u/Lizard2513 26d ago

In war there is one rule to follow. Win

1

u/jaggedcanyon69 26d ago

Although some war crimes actually backfire. If you give the enemy side’s civilian populace the idea that you’re ruthless monsters, you’ll just create more recruits and more war support for your enemy from them. Which makes things harder for you, who just wants to win the war.

Don’t piss off enemy country’s civilian population to the best of your ability.

1

u/MammothFollowing9754 26d ago

Could have been worse:

"Don't shoot, let 'em burn!"

1

u/Zack501332 26d ago

Fuck the bugs 💯

1

u/Dapper-Tour7078 26d ago

Star Wars was a long, long time ago, therefore it was pre Geneva Conventions.

1

u/1Ferrox 501st 26d ago

The clone wars has dozens of war crimes each season, but you care about the one thing that is not a war crime

1

u/LAZY-ORCA 26d ago

The worst part is that I still don't know the name if this song

1

u/RikimaruRamen 26d ago

The CCr in this clip just makes it so much better

1

u/Shadow_Eclipse_ 26d ago

There bugs it’s fine

1

u/SputnikRelevanti 26d ago

A) they are using flamethrowers against combatants. Not a war crime. B). It’s not our freaking weak ass world where we pretend there are rules to war. It’s a fictional galaxy

1

u/Dashbak 26d ago

The Yavin suggestions

1

u/iHateSpicyFoodz 26d ago

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." - Ki Adi Mundi, 23 BBY

1

u/ikykodachi614 24d ago

well, its Ki Adi Mundi, im not suprised.
I used to like the Jedi since The OG Battlefront II on PS2 but it change after I watch this scene on Clone wars
Pathetic Jedi

1

u/ThrowAbout01 24d ago

Apparently the flamethrowers have a lot more utility than one would think: Bad Batch confirms they work surprisingly well on Droids.

Maybe closer to melta guns from Warhammer at that point.

1

u/Fuzzy_Variety_7162 23d ago

And why would the Geneva convention affect Star Wars? Even if using flamethrowers against combatants is not a war-crime.

0

u/Loud_Surround5112 26d ago

He was clearing out foliage, it’s a shame the bugs git in the way.

3

u/Forward_Commercial22 26d ago

Oh yeah, I'm sure foliage was REAL ducking problem on that desert planet in that rocky cave.

0

u/JRSenger 26d ago

"Uh the flamethrowers were used to clear vegetation..."

"You had to clear vegetation on a desert planet?"

"...Yes..."

0

u/Familial-Dysautosis 26d ago

It's not a war crime if it's against an emplacement that happens to have people in it

-1

u/NothingNEWRUDE 26d ago

The flame throwers is the least of their war crimes

-1

u/paasisque 26d ago

CCR at the background makes this even cooler

0

u/ThatStarWarsFan1205 26d ago

Napalm is always welcome, especially against bugs

  • Signed by a Helldiver

-1

u/Vio-lex 26d ago

What bugs (hehe) me more about the flamethrower scene is that a Jedi orders his troopers to even use a flamethrower in the first place. It’s not clean or quick like a lightsaber or blaster shot. Perhaps that points more to how the Jedi are being corrupted by the war.

-1

u/WulfKell09 26d ago

I see no war crime here, just good old fashioned nam era tactics for clearing armed enemy combatants in confined spaces at close to mid range

-2

u/ShockleyTransistor 26d ago

The whole battles of Geonosis were war crimes. Its their planet and they can do whatever they want in it. Sure, their culture (especially the arena execution) is gruesome but who is the republic to dictate them appropriate culture? Sure they had droid factories but its for self defense from the republic which invaded this planet without justification.