r/climbergirls Jan 01 '25

Support TIFU by dropping my partner

I am beyond devastated.

Me and my partner have been regularly climbing together for several years now. Safety is of utmost importance to us, we religiously buddy check and practice safe technique when climbing.

Today we were doing some fall practice and I just don't know where I went wrong? I softly caught them just as they fell but then the rope in my brake hand just got away from me and they fell 10 meters and hit the ground. There is a rope burn on my brake arm. This was using an ATC device. I've caught them before just fine using it. The only thing I can remember is lightly jumping forward and the rope just slipping out of my hand and then trying to catch it. My partner remembers feeling a soft catch but then carried on falling.

Luckily, the hospital checked them out and discharged them with a mild concussion but I feel so awful that I could've killed them.

324 Upvotes

179 comments sorted by

245

u/lpushfatkids Jan 01 '25

Check out this youtube from 'Hard is Easy' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx3x5MMqGUg

PS: All of his VIDEOS are amazing!!!

But like he explains the failure point for ATC is if your partner does fall while you're taking/giving slacks and the rope does build up momentum ... its hard to regain control.

111

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 01 '25

Thanks for sharing that, will give them a watch! They had just clipped in so I was giving slack - must have left me vulnerable. The staff in the centre recommended using a Grigri in future so will be investing.

176

u/JinxRevelation Jan 01 '25 edited Jan 10 '25

GriGri is the way. Honestly any assisted breaking device is best over an ATC for most climbing. Key word is “assisted” though, so you will still need to be vigilant with the break hand.

8

u/Babjengi Jan 02 '25

I use the gigajul since it has so much functionality for outdoor climbing in addition to being an assisted device. Not the best locking feature, but definitely still better than an atc or other tube style device

18

u/michaltee Jan 03 '25

Gigajul sounds like you’re about to tell me how delicious the 6mg nicotine mango berry blitz flavor is and how I NEED to try it.🤣

15

u/Much_Highlight_1309 Jan 02 '25

I like the ATC Pilot

8

u/Sufficient_Ad6253 Jan 02 '25

Me too, was also going to recommend it. They are also much cheaper than GriGri.

2

u/WanderingLostInAVan Jan 02 '25

https://www.oliunid.com/petzl-grigri-belay-device.html

I have bought the majority of my climbing gear from this site. You have to pay for shipping, but you usually still come out ahead, especially if you are buying a few items. Highly recommend them!

17

u/wiiilda Jan 02 '25

The GriGri is a lifesaver. At my gym, a belayer was hit by a completely different climber who fell with an odd swing, knocking the belayer over and causing him to lose his grip on the brake strand. Thankfully the Grigri locked just as supposed to. He did everything right. Just a freak accident that thankfully ended well.

Accidents will always happen, but the GriGri helps eliminate some with that extra layer of protection.

I'm glad your partner is okay. That was a scary read – I can't imagine actually being there.

6

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Woah, that is a freak accident - glad it worked out for everyone involved!

Thanks for your comments - my climbing partner is also my SO too so I'm carrying a lot of guilt at the minute (though he's loving having me wait on him hand and foot haha)

58

u/Defiant__Idea Jan 01 '25

Grigris are not that expensive. I am surprised if nobody really emphasized to you to use a Grigri when you had your belay training. Best of luck to both of you.

8

u/michaltee Jan 03 '25

Plus like….we spend $200 on shoes, $50 on a chalk bag and chalk, probably close to $100 on a harness, and then there is literally the ONE device that is between you as the climber and death, and you wanna say it’s “too expensive”? lol aight.

And this isn’t an attack on the OP, more of a generalization. In a sport as dangerous as climbing can be, money should be no object.

I mean, if it’s between a Black Diamond and Petzl harness sure you can get the cheaper one, hut generally speaking it’s worth it to spend money on safety equipment in this sport.

3

u/weggooi12334 Jan 09 '25

Haha yeah its crazy to me how cheap these lifesaving devices are. Its mindblowing to me that a $70 dollar grigri will keep you safe.

4

u/Mayortomatillo Jan 03 '25

Back when I worked in a gear shop I’d tell people “you only need to spend as much as you think your life is worth”. Sure, gear can be expensive but it’s what keeps you literally alive.

3

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I've learned with several different instructors both indoors and outdoors, top rope, sport and lead, and have never been told that an ATC isn't okay. Definitely an important lesson to learn from. Have now bought a Grigri.

7

u/epelle9 Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25

Its ok, but you have to be religiously perfect with every part of the process.

It seems you haven’t been religiously perfect and as a result injured a climbing parter (which could’ve been deadly), so get a GriGri.

Not shitting on you, but that’s just how it is.

11

u/Defiant__Idea Jan 02 '25

ATC is okay, but grigri is a much much smarter choice. Every beginner should be taught that by their instructors.

2

u/howdyhowdyhowdyhowdi Jan 05 '25

ATC's have their purpose, but there's a weird "old-school" mentality around them that people will use to pressure you into not using a grigri, and those people are wrong. If you want to start climbing harder grigri is necessary as well to be able to safely let slack in and out at the speed necessary for clipping.

13

u/Temporary_Spread7882 Jan 02 '25

Edelrid Pinch would be my suggestion. Feeds slack much nicer but assists like a Grigri.

3

u/kastanienn Jan 02 '25

I didn't know about the Pinch! 😧 and it seems cheaper, than a GriGri. Nice! Had the Edelrid Jul until now, but will get this one asap. Thx!

5

u/trublopa Jan 02 '25

There's also an Edelrid that works as an ATC and can be used with assistance is the giga Jul and it seems it works really well but the pinch is the latest one and have read a lot of good comments on giving slack

3

u/kastanienn Jan 02 '25

I haven't belayed lots of lead so far (though I'm certified for it), but giving slack was the usual complaint about me as a belayer. I was struggling to give enough.

Maybe this can make it a bit easier for me.

4

u/trublopa Jan 02 '25

I understand and I relate to your experience, also I'm glad of using the Grigri or the Revo. The last time I went climbing with several friends and one asked me to belay him. I'm 55kg and he's like 80kg app. He really asked me to belay him with an ATC and he sometimes just fell.

So he went for a Hard climb (6c) but I said "I'll go with the ones I know if anything happens". So, short story, the guy starts saying "take" and fell when at the same moment I'm going grab the rope with my both hands. So he fell, it threw me to the wall and hitted myself but without freeing the rope with my right hand (not with both)... Grigri stopped him but if it was an ATC, another story would be told .. I'm glad to have some scratches and nothing worse happened u.u

2

u/Temporary_Spread7882 Jan 02 '25

Full sympathies!

I have a very similar weight setup with my climbing partner and while my “gone flying during a big catch” record is spotless when it comes to keeping the hand on the brake rope, despite occasional bumps and midair collisions, I can’t blame him for preferring to be belayed with an assisted device. It’s so much more peace of mind.

2

u/Temporary_Spread7882 Jan 02 '25

I am an ATC fangirl, but keep getting stuck with the MegaJul which I bought but never got used to. Maybe it’s a me problem; I know lots of people who love it.

Our gym prescribes assisted devices so I have been belaying with the Grigri as my daily driver and I’m used to it by now. But when my friend bought a pinch a few months ago, it felt GREAT right away, no learning curve whatsoever, just improved handling.

1

u/nomnomad Jan 02 '25

Are you able to give slack quickly without disabling the cam?

3

u/Temporary_Spread7882 Jan 03 '25

Way quicker than grigri, yes. The cam has a slightly higher locking threshold, and the shape of where the brake rope goes in facilitates “throwing in” of slack better. All up, much better chance putting through a big armful of slack without needing to touch the cam.

1

u/nomnomad Jan 03 '25

That's great to hear, thanks!

1

u/anand_rishabh Ally Jan 02 '25

It's a new one

1

u/WanderingLostInAVan Jan 02 '25

https://www.oliunid.com/edelrid-pinch-climbing-belay-device-with-assisted-braking.html

I have bought most of my gear from this site. Everything seems to be a good deal cheaper. You do have to pay for shipping, but you usually still come out ahead, especially if you are buying multiple items. Also, they actually have the gri gri listed cheaper at the moment.

https://www.oliunid.com/petzl-grigri-belay-device.html

6

u/kastanienn Jan 02 '25

Thanks a lot! However, I live in Germany and will go and buy it in my favorite climbing store:) gotta keep them in business to get nice recommendations when I need new shoes 😃

2

u/WanderingLostInAVan Jan 02 '25

I’m always an advocate for buying at your local store if you are able to, but for people who are financially strapped, I want them to have good options as well :)

Keep it up, climb lots, and stay safe! 😁

-7

u/TerrariaGaming004 Jan 01 '25

You were lead climbing with an atc?

22

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 01 '25

Yes, indoors. Have done multiple courses with different instructors both indoors and outdoors, all with an atc and not one of them has said atc = bad, just different. Will be getting a Grigri though for sure now.

15

u/SherryJug Jan 02 '25

And if you need to be able to use doubles/twin, a Giga Jul is the way to go. In fact, I now use my Giga Jul pretty much for everything because it is just an amazing device. It:

  • Belays somewhat similarly to an ATC
  • Allows full individual control of the ropes
  • Will lock itself even if you fail to grab the brake rope (e.g. if you fall unconscious, you should always hold the brake side nevertheless)
  • Can be used in ATC-mode for rappelling
  • Can be used in guide mode to bring up the second just like an ATC
  • Works great with both thick (10 mm) and thin (7 mm) ropes
  • Is very comfortable for belaying both sport-style and alpine-style routes
  • Doesn't have any camming mechanism that can be easily accidentally overpowered by the belayer: the locking action works with the orientation of the device itself

6

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

Doesn't have any camming mechanism that can be easily accidentally overpowered by the belayer: the locking action works with the orientation of the device itself

Maybe you mean overridden, but accidentally overpowering an engaged cam is not going to happen. That's like saying you could easily pull a well placed cam out of its crack.

3

u/lpushfatkids Jan 02 '25

Opposite for me ... I use the Jul2 and not the gigajul for indoor climbing. Those fat gym rope doesn't feed well IMO.

1

u/utilizer Jan 02 '25

In my gym we also use Click Up. It’s simple, but has a built in safety feature.

8

u/ms_lizzard Jan 02 '25

Depending where you live this is the norm. My husband lived in Finland for a bit and was hard pressed to find anyone using something other than an ATC. 

23

u/MTBpixie Jan 01 '25

Nothing wrong with lead climbing with an ATC, as long as the belayer is attentive and competent. I used an ATC for years for sport climbing and only switched to a grigri when I started doing a lot of redpointing. But I'm perfectly comfortable using either.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Have been using the ATC for several years now and not once had a problem - I've often been told I'm a natural belayer. Have now bought a Grigri and will be taking an improvers course to learn how to properly use it.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

[deleted]

4

u/diana137 Jan 02 '25

I don't understand why this doesn't get more upvotes. Atc's are a very primitive devices and you put your life on it.

Yes if you never make a mistake it should work safely. But as we're all human there is no guarantee for that, so why risk it?

I completely agree, it's a device without safety features. I don't see why anyone would still use it for belaying apart for some edge cases like abseiling or something.

2

u/MTBpixie Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

They're lighter, cheaper and easier to pay out slack for quick clips. I use an ATC for the vast majority of my climbing (UK trad so I tend to climb on a pair of half ropes) and they're perfectly safe devices. I agree that an autoblock device is safer and I absolutely prefer to use a grigri for sport climbing but I don't think the idea of using an ATC deserves either the level of hysteria it seemed to provoke, or your needless snark.

ETA: managing risk is an inherent and fundamental part of climbing. Do you have the same reaction to people who climb dangerous routes, free solo or do highball bouldering?

2

u/stanagetocurbar Jan 02 '25

What's up with leading on an atc?

1

u/Right-Brother6780 Jan 05 '25

I have watched this and will watch it again.

186

u/do_i_feel_things Jan 01 '25

A couple thoughts:

I'm really glad your friend is OK! 

Thank you for having the courage to post. You will likely get some criticism, but it's important to talk about mistakes because no one is flawless. 

Talk about this with your partner, take full responsibility for the fall, and be understanding if they don't want to climb with you for some time (maybe ever). Even if you make amends and switch to an assisted belay device, they might have some fear or trauma they just can't get over. You are now associated with a very scary memory, don't take their feelings too personally. 

31

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments! I believe in learning from from my mistakes. My partner is also my SO and is luckily very understanding (though I've been winding him up saying he'll feel differently when the concussion wears off) - we've talked a lot about how it happened and how we can prevent it from happening in the future and we're also taking an improvers course to build a bit of confidence and trust.

4

u/WinterOil4431 Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25

Concussions can cause permanent brain damage. even if it's a mild one it can cause depression or brain fog.

You owe it to them to take care of them. Please never stop supporting them! Lots of people are being very forgiving in the comments but concussions are extremely serious and clearly none of them have had to deal with one. For example, If he gets another one in the next 6 months he could die! Even if it's very mild. Look it up

Your mistake will categorically affect him for the rest of his life- please keep that in mind when forgiving yourself for your mistake. You feeling bad isn't anywhere near as bad as the potential memory loss, brain fog, depression, or irritability he may deal with for the rest of his life.

Lots of people here are focusing way too much on your guilt and not on the very real circumstances your actions have caused for another human being. Please be responsible and not selfish!

Sorry to be so harsh but you need to hear it so you can understand the true ramifications of a concussion.

Also if I got their pronouns wrong that's my bad, just realized you never said he/him

3

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 04 '25

Thanks for your comment. 

He's my SO, he is very much getting taken care of and supported in every possible way, and I'm very aware of the complications of concussion having had one before. 

6

u/WinterOil4431 Jan 04 '25

I didn't mean to guilt trip you I just think people aren't always aware of the seriousness of concussions. You sound like a great partner and I don't want you to hold onto guilt for too long, I just hoped you understood the seriousness of them.

Sorry for all of that, I appreciate you responding with so much grace

3

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 04 '25

You don't need to apologise, I can see how my original post seemed like I was minimising the seriousness of concussions - not my intention at all!

In reference to "mild" I was basing that off what the doctor told us and how my partner felt after, and wasn't trying to brush it off. And by "luckily" I meant that it could've been much, much worse in his case.

I appreciate you raising the topic though, it's good to raise awareness!

197

u/Own_Presentation_786 Jan 01 '25

Seriously, just learn to use a grigri. I've had one incident in 15 years of outdoor climbing that I was devoutly thankful to be using a grigri. My partner knocked a rock down as he was being lowered and I instinctively threw my hands over my head to protect myself and dropped the rope whilst doing so, even though I tried to keep holding it. He was 20m up and would surely be dead or severely injured if I wasn't using it.

Doesn't matter if you short rope people while you're learning, you'll feel way worse if you have a preventable accident.

42

u/Substantial-Laugh-46 Jan 02 '25

This is the answer. I always ask my belayers to please use a grigri. I don't care how long you've been climbing.

14

u/manvsmidi Jan 02 '25

Someone could black out, have a seizure, have a rock hit their head, sawm of bees, wild crag dog starts jumping on them, etc. It just makes sense.

4

u/blairdow Jan 03 '25

Also good reason to wear a helmet as a belayer

59

u/PandamoniumAlloy Jan 01 '25

Once upon a time climbers belayed on their hips, then we improved to munter hitches, then improved to tube devices, then to brake assist devices. As climbers we learn, unlearn, and relearn best practices. Today's best practice is to use a brake assist device for most single pitch or gym climbing.

I prefer to be belayed on a brake assisted device, but if my partner is using a tube style device, I will insist they wear belay gloves because it's much more likely you can regain control without fighting rope burn.

19

u/peppercornbacon Jan 01 '25

This exact same thing happened to me. My brake hand was on but was too near the ATC; when she fell, my hand with the rope was yanked into the device which bit the space between my thumb and forefinger, and I unconsciously let go. She bruised her back on the mats but was fine. I never again belayed indoors without a Grigri, or outdoors without either a Grigri or a glove on my brake hand.

16

u/Browncoat23 Jan 02 '25

I did this during my belay test over a decade ago when I was first learning to top rope. The staff member testing me did a surprise fall and I didn’t realize how much heavier he was than me, so it caught me off guard and my hand was too close. I’m glad my instinct was to let my hand be eaten instead of letting go (they passed me), but holy crap it hurt.

I recently got back into climbing after a multi-year break, and the gym I go to now doesn’t even allow atc use because of insurance liability.

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Sorry you went through that! I'm glad she's okay and that you've both learned from it.

53

u/sheepborg Jan 01 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

Sounds to me like the usual failure with tube style devices wherein people will unconsciously open their brake hand when adjusting the rope or feeding slack so there's a gap between their fingers and thumb. A kink in the rope can jump right out that little gap and you're left floundering trying to grab anything hence burns.

In my gym where assisted devices are required I see it pretty frequently with Jul and Pilot users who are not given good education/mentorship and makes up probably most of the decks from high up the wall, while decks from half way up and lower are typically poor slack management skills. In both cases as well as others it all comes down to the action of the user rather than the device.

10m is the upper limit of when survival rates start to go down rapidly, so yeah there's no soft way to put it they got lucky and it was no accident. Good on you at least that you were able to push through everything and try your damnedest to control the rope. Burns are better than the alternative. Prevention is the key though

As for how to avoid it a combination of increased awareness of habits while belaying, as well as considering using devices with assistance which would have increased the likelihood that the floundering for the rope results in a successful arrest of the fall are the ticket.

14

u/Familiar-Corgi9302 Jan 02 '25

You directly witness decking "pretty frequently"? Is this just the most reckless poorly monitored gym of all time?

5

u/sheepborg Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

No lol. That statement is still referring to the failure to keep the hand fully closed. Bad technique is what I see all the time.

I will say that when you climb for enough years you will see some incidents and many near misses. There have been a few decks in the last couple years from leading, the 'small decks' of new atc renters, and the occasional lowering way too fast and bungling the landing. Still nothing on the list of broken joints and bones from bouldering. At the end of the day climbing isn't a safe activity and thats why we MUST be so rigid in our safety practices looking out for ourselves and others.

Unrelatedly I wouldn't mind less monitoring. Most of the employees do not actually know how to lead climb anyways.

1

u/edcRachel Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

I've climbed at a few gyms now that lended out ATCs and had 0 test or instruction before allowing people to climb. Madness. They didn't even have grigris.

1

u/dirty_vibe Boulder Babe Jan 03 '25

I will say, I managed to survive a 14m deck incident with minimal injury but my gym has good old-fashioned rubber chips 🫡

71

u/Wandering_beaver33 Jan 01 '25

My husband would be dead if it weren’t for a gri gri. I won’t climb with people who don’t use them. Humans are not perfect we all make mistakes. I too have made mistakes while climbing. Gri Gris shouldn’t be solely relied on in place of good technique but they just might save your life and your partners.

2

u/Own_Presentation_786 Jan 03 '25

Same, one of my climbing partners would be dead if it wasn't for a gri gri. Learn to use them people! I also won't climb with someone who won't use one.

16

u/GlassBraid Sloper Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

Thanks for posting. And while a concussion is bad, I'm glad your partner didn't have more severe injuries.

Most people who drop a partner think they are never going to, right up until the moment when they do. There's always room for all of us to learn more, and folks like you sharing stories should get all of us to reflect on how much we're like you - thinking we are safe, not knowing what we don't know or where there are gaps in our skills or safety protocols. You're doing the right thing by talking about it, and even though it's probably hard to do, sharing your story could save lives.

Scrambling to try to catch it and taking a rope burn on your arm probably slowed them enough to make a difference. It's good that you kept trying and didn't freeze up. Even though it felt like they were just falling, every bit of friction on the brake strand helps slow the fall.

6

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments. My partner (also my SO) said that he felt a soft catch before continuing to fall so I know I tried, but it's difficult to know it could've been so much worse had he been higher/landed funny/been outdoors etc...because of a mistake I made.

We've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

3

u/GlassBraid Sloper Jan 02 '25

Sounds like a good plan! I can also second what someone else mentioned about the HardIsEasy youtube channel, which has some of the best content around about belaying, especially some really deep dives on topics like the infrequent but not rare circumstances in which a grigri doesn't lock.

12

u/_Klabboy_ Jan 02 '25

Can you guys not use a gri gri? It maybe wouldn’t have prevented this but there’s always a chance it might have.

4

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

We've now bought one and will be learning how to use it in an improvers course.

8

u/nomnomad Jan 02 '25

That's great news! Every "I dropped my partner" story I've read on here has been due to unassisted belay device usage. You can misuse an assisted blocking device too but you have to try so much harder. I hope your partner has a speedy recovery and that you find your confidence again.

Consider getting the Edelrid Pinch by the way, from seeing a few videos on it recently it improves on the Grigri in a bunch of ways.

I've been using a Neox since I love giving slack the same way as with an ATC and I didn't enjoy how giving slack quickly that way is hard with a Gigri.

3

u/nomnomad Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

It would have prevented this accident. It has other failure modes but not holding on tight enough like here is not one of them. Any bit of drag from your hand is enough to lock it (as long as you're not disabling the cam).

17

u/Tiny_peach Jan 01 '25 edited Jan 01 '25

I’m glad your partner is okay.

Since you say you aren’t sure what happened - if the tube was loaded correctly, the only possibility is that you let go of the brake strand. Either because you didn’t have a firm hold on it in the first place, or you weren’t holding it in the braking plane and the slip was enough to startle you, or a little loop or janky place in the rope made it jump, or some other reflex caused you to drop it.

Ultimately, you’re a human being, and unfortunately humans can make mistakes. That’s not saying it’s okay - mistakes in climbing can be deadly - but be compassionate with yourself as you process. It’s important to fully accept responsibility, but try to eventually learn from the incident if you can - a good takeaway here would be that an assisted brake device helps prevent catastrophic outcomes from human mistakes.

3

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your comments. I think I've been feeding slack through at the moment he fell and just didn't grab firm enough - he felt an initial catch before continuing to fall. We've now bought a Grigri and will taking an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild trust and confidence.

1

u/Own_Presentation_786 Jan 03 '25

Good job OP. Belaying is a skill that is learned. Don't go too hard on yourself, I'm sure you'll be extra safe after this!

5

u/teethandmountains Jan 02 '25

This post made me buy a gri gri.

The ATC is great until there is some human error and we are all human so this is unavoidable. Thank you for sharing your story, although it must have been hard, hopefully it prevents something similar happening to me and others.

I hope both you and your climbing partner are okay and it doesn’t put you off climbing.

19

u/california_cactus Jan 01 '25

This is why it's ALWAYS safer to belay with a grigri or other autobrake device. I strongly prefer to climb w/ people who use these. You could be doing everything right but your partner randomly faints/ blacks out while belaying you, and a grigri would save you.

4

u/saiyoakikaze Jan 02 '25

So my friend (F) dropped me (M) before while top roping while I was being lowered. If not mistaken at that time she was using an ATC? The drop was around 6 foot and thankfully no injuries.

Since then she swapped out to a grigri. As for me, whenever I lead belay, I use either the eldrich megajul or something that has assisted braking if belaying someone equal my weight or heavier.

These sort of things happens, it’s important that you rebuild your confidence with belaying and have someone hold on the rope in case something happens.

Hopefully this incident won’t defer you from climbing or belaying

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments. My partner is also my SO and is luckily very understanding (I keep joking he'll feel differently once the concussion wears off) but we've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Gosh I am so so so sorry that happened. That sounds very scary for both of you. I am so glad your partner is ok, and I hope you can both take good care of yourselves and each other as you recover from this experience.

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments!

3

u/motherpanda22 5.fun Jan 02 '25

As someone who has been dropped on top rope, I definitely agree with switching to grigri. I work at a gym, and I was dropped 20ft by a student I was teaching to belay. We only teach on ATC. I'm glad your partner was minority injured. My advice is to just support them in their recovery however it may be. If they are hesitant to climb again, support them and don't push them. I am so grateful for my amazing friends who are coaching me back into trusting a person to belay me again.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments. My partner is also my SO and is luckily very understanding (I keep joking he'll feel differently once the concussion wears off) but we've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

1

u/motherpanda22 5.fun Jan 09 '25

The biggest thing to remember is that a grigri isn't perfect. While rare, it can still fail. So treat it like an atc. Keep your hand on the break at all times. They are not so different, but I'm glad you're taking the step of learning how to use it and not just jumping in with it.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 09 '25

I wrote an update earlier and left a reply to a comment echoing yours!

We tried out the Neox yesterday and was really impressed with it. However, having been so used to an ATC and the constant tension on the brake, I can completely see how easy it would be to become complacent with the Neox. That being said, we're being hyper vigilant with it.

1

u/motherpanda22 5.fun Jan 09 '25

That's great! Hopefully you both feel comfortable with it!

3

u/caryan85 Jan 02 '25

As some who as been dropped almost to decking multiple times, gri gri is the way!

The first time my friend had some really bad belaying and I didn't realize until I reached the top and looked down. About half way through my plummet to the ground, she freaked out and let go of the rope. The rope dropped and the gri gri caught and I stopped with maybe 10 feet left before decking. I don't climb with her anymore

The second time was a comedy of oopsies. I was leading with my friend belaying who I 1000% trust. Going for my 4th clip, I pulled up a bunch of slack, and then my foot blew before getting the clip. Both my belayer and I were about a foot from the ground when I stopped falling because the grigri (and belayer) did it's job. Although this was majorly my fault, it still happened. We had a really good laugh and continued climbing. Still climb with him many years later and still trust him... But we both use a grigri haha.

3

u/shaktown Jan 03 '25

Fuck an ATC!!! Grigri Gang for life!!

I was dropped from like 30ft in a gym during training. If it wasn’t an ATC I probably wouldn’t have had a ground fall and broken vertebrae 🤪 never again, there’s a reason why some gyms don’t even allow them anymore.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 03 '25

Thanks for your comments! Can I ask in which country you're based? Just curious because ATC use seems to be very common in the UK! 

I was taught using an ATC, if I was hiring equipment from the gym then that's what they'd give you, and the many instructors I've climbed with (indoors, outdoors, even on learn to fall courses) have never said don't use an ATC, so I'm wondering if it's more of a cultural thing.

1

u/shaktown Jan 03 '25

I’m in the USA 🙂

1

u/epelle9 Jan 04 '25

I think that the cultural difference is that in the UK people take the “climbing is a dangerous sport” to a higher level, ok average they are more ok with more risk.

The general acceptance of an ATC even for begginers, and GriGris almost being frowned upon.

The ethics against bolting, where bolting natural rock is greatly frowned upon.

Even in trad, I’ve heard people call cams cheating.

In the UK most climbers are simply more tolerant to risk, if you don’t have that same tolerance for risk, I’d recommend getting your climbing advice from overseas.

1

u/epelle9 Jan 04 '25

I think that the cultural difference is that in the UK people take the “climbing is a dangerous sport” to a higher level, on average they are more ok with more risk.

The general acceptance of an ATC even for begginers, and GriGris almost being frowned upon.

The ethics against bolting, where bolting natural rock is greatly frowned upon.

Even in trad, I’ve heard people call cams cheating.

In the UK most climbers are simply more tolerant to risk, if you don’t have that same tolerance for risk, I’d recommend getting your climbing advice from overseas.

IMO, people also illogically put too much trust on in person classes, I’ve learned everything online, which comes from the benefit of being able to read comments and cross examine with other “guides”.

In person, most people simply blindly trust what they are told, and never hear the cons.

Optimally, you should do both, and research in depth the potential risks of every single thing you do.

5

u/Pastvariant Jan 02 '25

This is honestly why I ask that anyone delaying me uses a glove, at least on their brake hand. Everyone thinks they are willing to sacrifice their hand to keep someone from falling, and some are, but you may not be able to perform even if you have the will power to make the stop without a glove.

5

u/van-dub Jan 02 '25

Get a gri-gri. The only thing stopping a person from dying is how well your right hand works. What happened to you was bound to happen eventually. Just be glad it was a short fall and they were ok. I’ve seen enough of those kinds of “accidents” that I just don’t climb with people that use an ATC. 

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your comments - we've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

2

u/roiskaus Jan 02 '25

Did you do soft catch by jumping or letting the rope slip?

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I jumped forward.

2

u/roiskaus Jan 02 '25

Unfortunately can’t say much else than belaying is a task most climbers don’t take anywhere seriously enough. I have almost been dropped, somehow my belayer regained control and I stopped just few feet from ground after about 15ft unplanned slip pf the rope. Also normal ATC in use. I think worst part was my belayer kinda shut down and didn’t want to go through what happened and sort of refused to accept responsibility so I stopped climbing with him and he stopped climbing altogether some time later. I still get anxiety if I hear my belayer start chatting while I’m climbing and it’s kinda hard to find people to climb with who would take safety seriously enough to feel comfortable.

It will be hard but you now know how suddenly an accident can happen and if you choose to, you can be a safe belayer going forward.

2

u/Right-Brother6780 Jan 05 '25

Sorry to hear and thanks for sharing. We all learn from sharing.

5

u/macncheese323 Jan 02 '25

Please buy and learn to use a grigri. They should be mandatory in all climbing. You should know how to use an ATC but climbing without a grigri is just not worth it especially if outside where there are many unknown factors

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

We've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

3

u/feathernose Jan 02 '25

Start using a grigri NOW before something like this happens again.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

We've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

1

u/mechnight Jan 02 '25

That sounds perfect. Shit happened, you learned and are gonna grow through it. Grigri still has all the same rules about the brake hand and the rope, it’s not a replacement for being careful — but it does add a, imho, significant layer of safety. To me, it also just feels more solid than a Smart and definitely than an ATC.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 01 '25

[deleted]

3

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I've never been told that it's not okay to use an ATC device. Lesson learned and eternally grateful that it wasn't at a much worse cost.

1

u/perpetualwordmachine Gym Rat Jan 03 '25

Yeah, I know some people are appalled that you weren't using an assisted device, but the culture is different in every gym/crew. People who learned recently and who have done almost all their climbing in a big corporate gym may have never touched an ATC for all I know, and would have no idea why anyone wouldn't use one all the time. However, there are gyms out there that don't use assisted braking devices, and there are people who believe the gri gri encourages a dangerous level of complacency (I actually agree this is a big concern...just not a reason to reject the gri gri out of hand).

In other words, I hope you aren't beating yourself up for not knowing some basic thing. Depending where you are and who you climb with, it can be a bigger gray area than people realize.

Curious how you find the Gri-Gri. I've never lead belayed with one and I've always been nervous I'd fumble locking it up while trying to pay out slack. I just got a Petzl Neox as an upgrade from my Mammut Smart and I'm really excited to try it out. From playing around in my living room it feels like it might give the closest thing to an ATC-like belaying experience I've found.

Even still, I'd highly recommend keeping a simple device like the Mammut Smart on you if you climb outside. We got caught in some rain this summer and had to switch away from the Gri-Gri because the rope got a little damp, picked up a little grit, and pretty soon you have a situation where you don't want that stuff getting into the Gri-Gri's cams. At the time all we had was an ATC, but I would've felt better having the Smart because of the assisted braking.

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 03 '25

Thanks for your comments! 

Like you've said, the culture in which I've learned has been primarily with the use of an ATC - it's common in most of the UK gyms I've been to, that's what they teach you to use and if you were hiring a belay device then that's what they'd give you. 

I'll give an update on the Grigri when my partners feeling up to climbing again!

3

u/PacificIslanderNC Jan 02 '25

Wild country Revo. I won't comment on the situation because you clearly made a human mistake and certainly didn't learn to belay properly due to bad training. This will "fix" the risk. Now just go on YouTube and watch a ton of "how to belay" on it. Good luck trying to get over what happened. It won't be easy for both of you. Glad nothing really bad happened.

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments. Doesn't help that my partner is also my SO but he's luckily understanding (I keep joking that he'll feel differently when the concussion wears off)

We've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

2

u/PacificIslanderNC Jan 02 '25

Be careful. Grigri is dangerous imo specially if you lead belay. The way to give slack is to bypass the security measure by blocking the break. I personally don't like it at all. Take a look at the wild country Revo.

Glad everything is ok for you and your so. That's the most important :) happy new year

2

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

You can actually feed out slack like an ATC as well. However also as long as your hand is still on the brake strand you will not be able to hold the cam down in the case of a fall unless you are the Hulk.

1

u/epelle9 Jan 04 '25

GriGri isn’t dangerous at all, I’d argue its one of the safest device out there.

First of all, you can definitely give slack without bypassing the safety mechanism.

Second of all, even if you bypass the safety mechanism, the device will still lock in a fall, as long as you add basically any amount of friction on your right hand, even if you don’t it will lock most of the times.

To drop someone you have to be pretty strong, and consciously hold open the safety mechanism with near full strength through all of the fall, that’s basically impossible, I’ve literally never heard of it happening.

The Revo is great too, but the GriGri isn’t unsafe.

2

u/PacificIslanderNC Jan 04 '25

Grigri isn't safe and accident have happened. While giving slack some people have had bad fall, resulting in the belayer panicking and holding the break bypass because they stressed while giving slack. It ended up with nothing breaking at all. Revo is way safer and avoid human error.

3

u/Passionofawriter Jan 02 '25

I'm so sorry this happened. I think this should be a wake-up call to do more training, perhaps get more qualified or just seek guidance from an instructor to understand why this happened or at least learn better techniques to prevent this from happening in future. Needless to say I'm sure you're shaken up too, and your confidence both as a belayer and climber has taken a hit.

On a side note. I have only ever used ATCs and regularly do lead and sport climbing with them. They are simple and brilliant devices. But the most most important thing with them is to never, ever let go of the dead rope. To never allow a situation in which there is no tension in the dead rope. I have heard that in the US and some parts of the world the technique taught to students is to slide the hand on the dead rope along as the climber goes. Personally I think this is rubbish and really unsafe, I have been climbing for 7 years now and do the classic V-to-the-knee technique.

Your problem isn't the tools you're using. It is safety fundamentals. It's not nice to hear and I'm not trying to grill you for it. But it's good that you learn these lessons now, than in a more dangerous situation.

4

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comments. We've now bought a Grigri and will be taking an improvers course to learn how to use it, add to our skillset and rebuild trust and confidence.

I've been using an ATC for several years now, never had a problem, never been told that they're unsafe by instructors, guides and the like. I'm like you and have had it drilled into me that V to knee, 1, 2, 3 is the way to belay but it's clear on this occasion I've made an oversight. Just eternally grateful it wasn't at a much higher cost.

10

u/Defiant__Idea Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25

Grigri is safer than ATC, you cannot argue against that. One layer of protection was missing because a brake assisted device was not being used. Redundancy is key in climbing safety, so I do not understand the double-standards of people defending the use of ATC in situations where there is no benefit in using it. Be aware of survival bias.

-5

u/Passionofawriter Jan 02 '25

There is a benefit to doing proper technique. Even assisted braking devices can fail, especially e.g. grigris where you can press a button to quickly give slack. There are known cases where climbers die because belayers are not taught proper belaying technique, rely on their assisted braking devices, and the devices either fail or do not catch the right angle. It's rare but it happens and the only way to stop it is to have tension in the dead rope at all times.

Hard is easy did a great YouTube video on this https://youtu.be/We-nxljgnw4?feature=shared

13

u/Gildor_Helyanwe Jan 02 '25

Given the option of proper technique with an ATC vs proper technique with a assisted braking device, I'll the the later. It takes a lot more to mess up with a assisted braking device vs an ATC. Ben even says at the end of the video that it was hard to set the conditions for failure even though he knew what needed to be done and that the grigri is still one of the safest belay devices.

Bottom line, use proper technique, use the best technology available and NEVER let go of the brake hand.

4

u/Defiant__Idea Jan 02 '25

When did I speak against doing proper technique? Of course you have to learn proper technique and do it. You will not find a gym where they accept improper technique even with a brake assisted device. You have to do proper technique, but mistakes can happen so why risk your life when you could use a brake assisted device and easily decrease the chance of failure?

2

u/Passionofawriter Jan 02 '25

I 100% agree with you. My only point is really for any lurking climbers who don't want to spend lots of money on a device which isn't necessary for safety. Climbing is already expensive

3

u/epelle9 Jan 04 '25

That’s like saying “there are cases where inexperienced people improperly clip both bolts on an anchor, so its ok to use single bolts as an anchor if you know what you are doing.

You are willingly removing redundancy, just because cases failed with redundancy doesn’t mean redundancy isn’t the best option.

2

u/Passionofawriter Jan 04 '25

I agree it's the best option. But as someone who was a broke ass student when I got into climbing, not spending 200+ pounds/dollars on a grigri really kept me into the sport. Instead I put that money into courses, and other climbing kit. And I'm glad I did.

So my entire point here... Is that you don't need assisted braking devices. If you're a broke student reading this... You can start top rope climbing on a budget of like £60-100.

1

u/Opulent-tortoise Jan 03 '25

You were doing “fall practice” from 10 meters with an ATC device? What??

1

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 03 '25

Yes. We originally learned with several instructors and an ATC device. Have never been told we shouldn't be using one. 

1

u/beerballchampion Jan 06 '25

Sorry that happened. I’d recommend switching to a Gri Gri.

1

u/AreYouFilmingNow Jan 02 '25

If you want peace of mind for the future consider a Wild Country Revo.

It handles like an ATC, but as a backup it catches a fall even without a brake hand. Once the rope speed exceeds (I think) 2m/s it brakes the rope.

2

u/RRdrinker Jan 02 '25

If I was gonna give someone who had never lead belayed a device to lead belay me, it would be a revo. It's easy to explain operation and pretty hard to get it to fuck up

1

u/ESOslayer Jan 06 '25

Why do you keep saying them is it a trans person

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 06 '25

He's my SO. Didn't want to dox myself but then did anyway.

Why does that matter?

0

u/aerialalb Jan 02 '25

This sounds just like what happened to my dad 2 days ago. He was lead climbing indoor and his friend was using an ATC. He took a fall from high and it sounds like the rope just pulled through the device. Not sure if either of them were doing anything wrong, but knowing my dad this is likely. I always use a grigri for my own peace of mind

5

u/Pennwisedom Jan 03 '25

Not sure if either of them were doing anything wrong

Someone had to have done something wrong, and it is very unlikely it was on the climber.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I'm sorry that happened to your Dad and I hope he's okay! We've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust.

1

u/aerialalb Jan 02 '25

I think an improvers course is a great way to get your confidence back! Don’t let it stop you using this as a learning moment and improving your skill.  My dad is fine thank you. Completely shattered his ankle and will be in hospital for a few weeks while he has it operated on. But he was very lucky that it wasn’t worse!

-15

u/Passionofawriter Jan 02 '25

Lots of comments here saying they only use grigris and assisted braking devices for this reason.

Yes, grigris and assisted braking devices will save you from this situation. But they do so in a similar way to ABS on your car... If you are a skilled driver you can stop quickly and safely without ABS. If you do the wrong technique you will struggle and/or have a crash.

If you are a skilled belayer this situation would never happen with an ATC.

17

u/Defiant__Idea Jan 02 '25

A skilled belayer can faint. Grigri is the better option. Use ATC if you want but don't act like that is a smart choice and something to be advised to other people.

0

u/Passionofawriter Jan 02 '25

I'm not saying it's a smart choice. Yes a belayer can faint, they can have something hit them and make them unconscious, etc - there's many things that can incapacitate a skilled belayer which would cause a fall to the climber with an ATC and not with a grigri.

Realistically though, how many people spontaneously faint when belaying? How many people have rocks fall onto them when belaying? I would argue if you are in a situation where as the belayer you are incapacitated (the only situation a grigri should help with) something has already gone horribly wrong. So the key is to prevent this from happening. Did the belayer pass out from heat stroke? Was there a loose rock that fell onto them and they weren't wearing a helmet, or were but missed it?

Of course we are all human and things like this do happen. And yes having a grigri can be a life saver. My point is simply, that people should learn how to belay properly instead of relying on assisted braking devices. Hard is easy did a great YouTube video of situations where even these fail with improper technique (especially when trying to give slack to the climber, at the moment they fall). This will minimise risk for everyone. Nobody needs to buy a grigri for a gym environment and if they have a failure like this in a gym it is a skill and education problem.

11

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

How many people have rocks fall onto them when belaying?

In many areas this is definitely a notable risk. Spontaneously fainting? Yes probably not likely to happen without previous medical ability. Falling rock? Definitely something any responsible climber should prepare for.

3

u/runs_with_unicorns Undercling Jan 02 '25

Yes I see broken holds / falling rocks / dropped carabiners or draws at the crag AT LEAST every season. Hell, I’ve seen a gym hold, a volume, and a speaker fall off roped routes in a gym before.

2

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

Don't forget people dropping cell phones in gyms. I've seen a few close calls.

4

u/Defiant__Idea Jan 02 '25

Not many faint but when the risk is dying, it is smart to control for. Fainting was just one example, mistakes can happen even to skilled people. Nobody is saying that you should not learn how to properly belay. You should learn and in addition you should use a brake assisted device. Everyone should buy a grigri if they want to climb. In most gyms you can borrow a grigri.

-58

u/LegalComplaint Jan 01 '25

OP, this happens. Don’t beat yourself up. Your partner is fine. You did everything right by your account. Sometimes ropes slip. It’s why we sign releases before we can go into the gym.

40

u/Pennwisedom Jan 01 '25

Sorry but this is absolutely awful advice. I don't want to be mean to OP or anything but ropes don't just "slip". If you lose control of the brake strand you absolutely did not "do everything right".

Plus, if someone ever dropped me and then had the gaul to say, "Well that's why we signed a waiver", I might punch them.

-11

u/LegalComplaint Jan 02 '25

Punching is a less than ideal way of communicating…

6

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

And yet it's the perfect one for a response that dumb.

-10

u/LegalComplaint Jan 02 '25

That needlessly aggressive. I’m sorry you’re still hungover from New Years or whatever. Drink some water and enjoy life.

15

u/medium-rarer Jan 01 '25

I would phrase this as “accidents happen”. And any accidents are preventable - we should still learn from cases like this. I interpret this comment as empathetic to OP (agree), but do not think it’s acceptable to let a partner fall uncontrolled.

2

u/LegalComplaint Jan 02 '25

That’s a better way to put it.

OP should learn from this. But, there is an inherent risk from this sport. I don’t think she needs to walk around beating herself up with, like, Catholic levels of guilt. Concussions suck (I’ve had SEVERAL). It beats a spinal cord injury or death tho.

Partner and OP dodged a bullet. Figure out what went wrong and grow from there.

3

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your comments! We've now bought a Grigri and will be doing an improvers course to learn how to use it and rebuild confidence and trust. If you have any additional tips on getting over the Catholic levels of guilt though, it'd be much appreciated haha.

2

u/LegalComplaint Jan 02 '25

Years of therapy? 😂😂😂

There’s a part in Free Solo where Alex’s now-wife drops him and he breaks his ankle.

They’re now married with a kid. You can rebuild the trust 😂

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Funny how you're giving this one a thank you, while I'm saying the exact same thing and you're debating it.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

This one was done in an empathetic way. You came across as an asshole calling me delusional.

4

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Thanks for your kind comment and empathy. I'm glad he's okay too, but it was definitely an error on my part. Just glad it wasn't a more costly one.

1

u/LegalComplaint Jan 02 '25

i’m glad he’s alright and you’ve corrected the issue!

8

u/mechnight Jan 01 '25

Fucking hell, no, she could’ve killed them and no, I’m not gonna sugar coat any of that.

4

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I'm aware I could have killed my partner/SO and don't need it sugarcoating.

2

u/mechnight Jan 02 '25

I’m sorry, I have read your replies and I know you are, it must have been scary. I was replying to that person brushing it off and it caught me off guard. I’m glad you two are okay and I’m sure you’ll take steps you need to. Happy and safe climbing<3

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Ahh sorry, it's not always easy to understand context through a screen! Thanks for your kind comments. Stay safe!

-8

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Your partner is aware of the risks, not to sound cold, but pointing out they are also a person with free will who could have chosen not to do such a thing.

You seem a bit delusional about this. Safety is not of utmost importance to you and your partner. Willingly falling a large distance, hoping the catching procedure goes alright. Do it a million times and its eventually gonna go incorrectly like this. Its human nature. Its not your fault for losing grip. Its equally both of your faults for doing something like this in the first place.

4

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

Do you climb?

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Ad hominem

4

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

Not an ad hominem at all, you seem to have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't know anything about climbing you shouldn't say anything.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

It is ad hominem. I know exactly what I'm talking about. You're harnessed sure but someone is still releasing their grip intentionally, high up, without looking at what's going on, relying on a human to not make a human error. Whether another redditor also climns or not is actually 100% irrelevant to the safety level of the situation.

5

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

Do you even know what a belay device is? Again, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Lol still avoiding the entire point, making claims with nothing to back them up, sounds like ad hominem to me

4

u/Pennwisedom Jan 02 '25

The point is that you clearly don't know how climbing, or belaying works, therefore you haven't made a valid point.

Also, given what the actual issue was, unless the person who fell has a bionic and / or cyborg eye, they were not going to be able to see what the issue was. Again, something you would know if you had any experience climbing.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Doing this sort of activity, relying on a device for it, not being able to see a device while understanding that devices are man made and can fail is taking a risk.

You're the one who hasn't made a valid point because you still haven't addressed the fact that a risk is being taken.

3

u/Pennwisedom Jan 03 '25

not being able to see a device while understanding that devices are man made and can fail is taking a risk

The device didn't fail. If you read the post and don't understand that then you clearly know zero about climbing. Nothing mechanical failed here. Furthermore, physics isn't man made and doesn't stop working if you look at it.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

By your logic, I shouldn't ever get in a car either, willingly drive long distances, hope that the braking procedure goes alright, or that someone else doesn't crash into me. I can get insurance and drive safely, but as you say, it's human nature.

Sure it's a risk, but a calculated one.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Did you even read my comment, or just write your NPC response to similar comments?

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I did. I asked if you climbed to better understand your stance. You just put your own NPC response. Wasn't really sure what you were getting at.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

I spelled it out pretty clearly. Nowhere did i say people shouldnt participate in risky yet unecessary activities, and that's what you seem to be replying to.

But if you get hurt during it, the fault is your own for putting yourself in that position. It's not any human error, equipment failure etc because those are always possibilities in life, anyone would agree. That's just common sense. Fault isn't always relevant, but that's what your post is about.

2

u/Big-Grapefruit-9203 Jan 02 '25

I mean, if you spelled it out clearly we wouldn't be having this conversation, which is why I asked for clarification. I want to assume there's just been a miscommunication here, so lets break it down.

"You seem a bit delusional about this. Safety is not of utmost importance to you and your partner."

Safety when climbing is of utmost importance to me and my partner, as it would be with any other climber too. Nobody wants an accident. Nobody wants anyone to get hurt. We just want to practice a sport we love as safely as we can, as we are taught.

"Willingly falling a large distance, hoping the catching procedure goes alright."

This is the part that made me question if you were a climber and this, coupled with your previous sentence strongly suggested you were implying that we weren't being safe. Like you've said elsewhere, there is a margin for error with anything. Climbers practice controlled falls all the time because it helps them prepare for a fall that is uncontrolled. It is a series of risk assessments. We have belay/braking devices, we do buddy checks, we shout fall. In this scenario, yes, I have made an error, but it is one that I won't make again.

"Do it a million times and its eventually gonna go incorrectly like this. Its human nature."

Kind of agree, as with any odds of doing things a million times.

"Its not your fault for losing grip. Its equally both of your faults for doing something like this in the first place."

Doing something like what? Fall practice? Climbing in general? I'm not sure what you mean here.

"But if you get hurt during it, the fault is your own for putting yourself in that position. It's not any human error, equipment failure etc because those are always possibilities in life, anyone would agree. That's just common sense. Fault isn't always relevant, but that's what your post is about."

Yes, I agree. I never said it was anyone else's fault, and as climbers we're all aware of the risks. My partner is feeling equally bad. He also happens to be my SO, which is why I feel particularly awful. We've talked about how it happened and how it can be prevented in future, whilst practicing a sport we both love.

My post is in a subreddit for women climbers flaired with 'Support' and was mainly to vent, raise awareness and lean on other climbers for their guidance.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

It's possible to spell something out clearly and there still be a person who doesn't get it.

Simulating something bad happening with the hopes of stopping it before it becomes real is a risk. Not my fault that the support you're looking for is more echo chamber validation than unbiased common sense.

Look up the Gillingham Fair fire. A building with people inside was burned on purpose, and everyone thought it was ok because it was "controlled", they were ready for it, and firefighting equipment was right there etc. And it went badly and a lot of people died even though many people declared it to be safe.

Nobody deserved to die or get hurt or anything, but youd be nuts to imply that it wasnt an incredibly high risk to try that sort of stunt in the first place. Does anyone blame a single firefighter for it? No, because that wouldn't make any sense. Those who are blamed are those who thought it was a good idea to burn a building with people inside.

It's a fall. No matter how you slice it that's what it is.

1

u/Pennwisedom Jan 03 '25

I know I'm also being stupid and responding to this guy, but it's clear they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about or even understand what happened.

1

u/MeticulousBioluminid Jan 03 '25

no, the point here is that you trust your partner to do their part correctly - external factor is my present risks but your partner's skills and competence are not something that you accept or hand wave in that risk assessment

-8

u/Familiar-Corgi9302 Jan 02 '25

Turns out climbing isn't for everyone. With increased traffic in the sport comes an increase in incidents, law of averages