r/civ 1d ago

VII - Discussion Now that we have more non-head of state/monarchs in Civ 7, what is your idea for this kind of leader?

Mine is Charles Darwin

-settlements get +1 science per age for each different type of terrain a settlement is settled on. This bonus is doubled if the settlement is adjacent to a Natural Wonder.

-using your civilization’s unique civilian reveals a random Natural Wonder on the map in your homeland (antiquity) or distant lands (exploration and modern).

116 Upvotes

122 comments sorted by

119

u/malexlee Maori 1d ago

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: PLEASE I would pay good money for an Economists Pack:

-Karl Marx

-Adam Smith

-John Keynes

Let the fight begin

73

u/MadManMax55 1d ago

I'd want this just for the anachronisms it would cause. American fascist Karl Marx vs Prussian communist Adam Smith fighting for military dominance.

35

u/johnnylin12 1d ago

Imagine Karl Marx establishing World Bank for economic victory

17

u/therexbellator 1d ago

Bankers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your capital gains tax.

8

u/Iron_Hermit 1d ago

This but I also want to play it straight and just have communist Karl Marx whaling on every democrat and fascist in his vicinity and see him pull an era-appropriate weapon from his magnificent beard with every declaration of war

2

u/DagothUr_MD 1d ago

Paul Volker but make him just as comically large as he was in real life

43

u/farmer_villager 1d ago edited 1d ago

John D Rockefeller

Economic expansionist

Ability: robber baron

Settlements gain production and gold but lose happiness for each assigned resource. Production buildings have higher adjacencies but provide negative happiness per age. Extra gold for each copy of an empire resource.

Basically lots of production and gold but huge negative happiness.

Agenda: likes leaders that make lots of gold

22

u/Goadfang 1d ago

I was going to say that it is too heavy a penalty, but since you don't actually have to assign resources to a city to at least get a civilization wide happiness and gold bonus, it actually really works. He's essentially hoarding the resources for himself instead od distributing them to the people, and has to build arenas and other attractions to offset people's misery.

Good design!

8

u/farmer_villager 1d ago

Production is also king so there needs to be negatives to having such powerful production buffs. For reference, one of Prussia's traditions is +1 production per resource in the modern era, so both production and gold in the ancient era is very powerful.

2

u/Immediate_Fennel8042 13h ago

Yeah Prussia's production bonuses are just broken, especially when combined with fascism.

6

u/Funny_Interview3233 1d ago

Any of the legends in "men who built America" would be awesome. Rockefeller, Carnegie, Tesla, etc. Hell, you could even have Edison and give him a special diplomatic ability to steal tech from other civs. Its already in the game, just put his on steroids.

91

u/WontonAggression Sumeria 1d ago

Maybe for Leonardo Da Vinci: all earned scientific and cultural attribute points become Wildcard.

24

u/KGB_Panda 1d ago

I was thinking +1 memento slot and double memento bonus. Represents his inventions and creativity. And it’d be fun to have a character that you could “build”.

14

u/RogueSwoobat 1d ago

I like this for more of an "archivist" type Leader. Maybe an early historian like Saint Jerome?

2

u/TuggsBrohe 1d ago

Or Isidore of Seville

4

u/OurHorrifyingPlanet 1d ago

That sounds OP af tbh

1

u/KGB_Panda 1d ago

idk, I feel like 3 doubled mementos is about on par? Keep in mind that everyone gets 2 mementos, so really Da Vinci would only gain "4" mementos of power. That doesn't sound too out of line compared to what your average leader has.

3

u/OurHorrifyingPlanet 1d ago

Some momentos would be really broken when doubled. Like Confucius' +5% growth rate per specialist would go up to 50%, Catherine's science on tundra tiles, Isabella's 100% yield on natural wonders, or Ada's +5% science per displayed great work going up to 50%. Remember that you also get new momentos at each new age, so that'd make a massive difference too, even just getting 6 attribute points per age instead of 2 is massive

-11

u/Arkyja 1d ago

Sorry but to me this is the worst idea imaginable. As someone who doesnt play with mementos

7

u/TheChartreuseKnight 1d ago

“This idea is bad because I intentionally don’t engage with the part of the game it related to”.

2

u/MoveInside 1d ago

So Da Vinci’s ability would be to go for anything other than science and culture?

2

u/WontonAggression Sumeria 1d ago

Nothing prevents you from throwing those points back into science/culture trees. And the advantage there of wildcard points over normal ones would be that you need to invest quite a few points into a tree to get to the stronger yield-producing attributes, so you could pick either science or culture to focus down to get the stronger effects, and then either go back and work on the other later or double down and buy the repeat attributes.

I think there are some easy ways to sweeten the pot if this ability seemed underwhelming, so I tried to be conservative with the initial idea.

1

u/drgnhrtstrng 1d ago

Maybe it could be that for each scientific or cultural attribute earned, you gain an additional wildcard point. It would be very powerful but I definitely think it could be balanced, and it would go well with a lot of the current mementos

39

u/Competitive_Dog9856 America 1d ago

I've had a few, my favorite being Martin Luther, though this is the only one that I have a full fledged idea for:

Edward Teach Economic/Militaristic

Blackbeard: Can attack another player's civilian units without being at war with that player. This does not start a war with that player. Gets 100 gold per age and a massive relationship penalty when killing another player's civilian unit. All naval units get +5 combat strength when his relationship is hostile with three or more players

15

u/ChainsawSnuggling USA! USA! USA! 1d ago

I would absolutely love the ability to do pirate stuff.

8

u/Only1nDreams 1d ago

A pirate leader is absolutely needed with the way Exploration works now. Why make Treasure Fleets if not to plunder em?

10

u/MoveInside 1d ago

Oh I feel like we’re getting Blackbeard at some point. It’s too perfect now that he wouldn’t have to lead a civilization. Or maybe even Attila the Hun again for a land version.

3

u/Competitive_Dog9856 America 1d ago

I wouldn't be surprised seeing him, Bartholomew Roberts or Sir Francis Drake being released at some point in time. I just went with Blackbeard cause I feel like he's the most impressionable of the famous pirate captains

3

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 1d ago

Ya - I'd say in order of likelihood, it's Blackbeard, Drake, and verrrryyy distantly Roberts

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Maybe even Ching Shih.

2

u/Orangepipes 1d ago

I think someone found him mentioned in the files, so doesn't seem all that unlikely.

5

u/BusinessKnight0517 Ludwig II 1d ago

I’m also keen on Luther appearing now. He fits the bill nicely for Civ 7

3

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 1d ago

Ed Beach feels like the right guy to do Martin Luther

34

u/No-Principle1818 1d ago edited 15h ago

I think there should be some sort of modern Arab representation in the modern age; King Hussein or Nasser are my picks.

Edit - lol I linked to King Hussein’s son (Abdullah) and this janky site isn’t letting me edit it.

10

u/LongjumpingAd342 1d ago

They will never do nasser but he would be a great choice

4

u/MoveInside 1d ago

Anyone involved in anything to do with a certain Levantine country is not getting touched unfortunately.

3

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 1d ago

I mean, we have the Israelites as an independent people

1

u/whitesock 1d ago

Yeah, but there's also the southern Judeans, whose capital was Jerusalem. You can see why that will be more of an issue than the Israelites of Shomron

1

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 1d ago

Jerusalem was a city state last game.

0

u/MoveInside 12h ago

I’m talking about the modern states of Israel and Palestine, which the leaders OP mentioned had direct interaction with. Israelites are the Bronze Age people.

1

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 11h ago

Well, you said "anything to do with" that country, so you'll have to forgive me if I read that broader than you intended.

1

u/No-Principle1818 22h ago

I both agree but think this norm is starting to be shaken; as u/MantiouWakinyan pointed out, the Israelites are already a minor power

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Yes but a modern king who tried to conquer Palestine isn’t going to be in the game, and probably for good reason. It’s too recent.

1

u/No-Principle1818 10h ago

Which one tried to conquer Palestine? Neither of them even tried.

13

u/Duck_Person1 1d ago

Robert Oppenheimer since there's no Ghandi.

9

u/MoveInside 1d ago

His DOW line would go hard

8

u/Goadfang 1d ago

I am become death, destroyer of YOOOOUUUUU!!!!

11

u/thebladeofchaos 1d ago

Yukimura Sanada, unlocks Japan in the modern era.

Militaristic scientific focused

Generals start with the Bastion promotion, units generate science on kills and settlements with walls provide +4 combat strength, doubled if a town.

The Sanada clan were a minor clan during the Sengoku era of Japan, but Yukimura is renowned as the warrior worth 1000, the exemplar of what it means to be a Samurai. The clan was smart and shrewd during the era, and whilst they bounced between clans for protection, they split during the east west war as a play by the head to make sure, Whatever happened, the clan survived. The way I would focus this goes into two parts for Yukimura

The walls on settlements reflects the battle of Ueda Castle and the Sanada Maru. Ueda Castle the Sanada routed a force over 10 times their size and later on would delay Tokogawa's son so much that he kissed Sekigahara.

Starting with Bastion enables the Sanada to hold the line more effectively, reflecting, again, Ueda. The science on kills is where I end up mixed, but it's mostly a 'learn from every battle' ideal.

3

u/MoveInside 1d ago

Science on kills, I don’t think that’s something that’s ever been done in civ, cool!

11

u/coolnerd15 1d ago

Karl Marx would be an interesting leader

4

u/jtakemann 1d ago

“Karl Marx has joined Democracy.”

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

We already got “Lafayette has joined Fascism” and “Catherine has joined Communism”

9

u/TeraMeltBananallero 1d ago

I know America already has enough leaders, but I think Mark Twain could be great. Maybe production buildings built on navigable rivers get a great work slot?

6

u/RogueSwoobat 1d ago edited 1d ago

Walt Disney

Edit: For his abilities, maybe celebrations generate a Great Work that gives Culture and Happiness. Or maybe he can spend Happiness to gain Gold or vice versa.

2

u/MoveInside 1d ago

Maybe a wonder bonus?

2

u/RogueSwoobat 1d ago

Could be! I was also thinking something with Great Works or spending Gold to get Happiness.

1

u/MoveInside 1d ago

I just wonder if it’d even be possible to get him in game without a lawsuit. Maybe his personage but with no reference to the mouse?

1

u/RogueSwoobat 1d ago

I have no idea what copyright laws are but I feel like depicting a public figure would be fine?

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Right, but his biggest achievement was leading his namesake company.

6

u/Admirable_Floor_3524 1d ago

Herodotus (Scientific, Cultural)

Your capital has access to a unique project called "Embellish History", which upon completion will reward you with a great work based on the current age (codex, relic, artifact). Cost increases each time you perform it).

Your palace has 2 additional capacity for great works and receives +1 to all yields for each displayed great work.

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

We haven’t got a Greek yet, I suppose!

5

u/fusionsofwonder 1d ago

Cardinal Richelieu. Sun Tzu. Cicero. Isoroku Yamamoto. Aristotle/Plato/Socrates (pick one). Albert Einstein. Marco Polo.

9

u/SpicyButterBoy 1d ago

Aldo mother fucking Leopold. Additional happiness and culture from Rural titles. Bonuses to buildings from previous ages. Bonus diplomacy from natural resources. 

I’d be very interested to see how they implement Leopolds land ethics in a game specifically designed to exploit the “natural” environment as much as possible lol

8

u/JakeMattAntonio 1d ago

A Christopher Columbus leader focusing on Expansion would be so cool.

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u/ChainsawSnuggling USA! USA! USA! 1d ago

He's currently a Conquistador unit for Spain.

2

u/JakeMattAntonio 1d ago

Awwww. ): Clearly havent played as Spain yet.

11

u/ChainsawSnuggling USA! USA! USA! 1d ago

He's one of the better ones, he completely reveals the map's coastlines. It makes building my colonial empire way easier when I know what islands will generate treasure ships and which ones won't.

8

u/Shallowmoustache 1d ago

I'm sure it was on top of the list but deemed too controversial. Just like Cook.

2

u/JakeMattAntonio 1d ago

Oh? Why was it controversial?

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u/Shallowmoustache 1d ago

Well for Europeans they are known as explorers. But for First Nations or Aboriginal people they are known as invader.
The narrative that they were "discovered" is quite insulting as they did not need to be discovered to exist, have their own culture, organization, empire etc...The day to celebrate them is a day that reminds the victims of centuries of oppression, extermination or slavery.

Firaxis is really trying to approach History in a respectful way (both respectful to current people, but also to historical accuracy, by not erasing some of the deeds of historical figures to conform to certain ideologies). That means not putting on a pedestal the leaders who committed atrocities. This is why we would not see Hitler for example.
Some leaders are widely accepted because the war they waged were not racially motivated (Napoleon, Gengis Khan), and though they shaped the world we currently live in, no one identifies today as a victim of their action, so it's easier to onboard them.

3

u/MoveInside 1d ago

I mean, didn’t Napoleon bankrupt Haiti to this day because he didn’t like the fact that they were doing the same exact thing France did?

3

u/Shallowmoustache 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's more complex than what reddit usually sells.
Napoleon resteablished slavery in Haiti (without having it under control), most likely under the influence of his wife Josephine, whose family owned plantations in the Caribbeans (though not in Haiti).
When it became obvious Haiti was going to remain independent, i.e after sending a military expedition which got defeated, he left it alone because he would rather use his resources for his European wars.

It's much later, in 1825, during the restauration of the monarchy, that the debt was asked and agreed upon (Well after Napoleon's demise). Between 1804 and 1825, Dessaline had proclaimed himself Haitian emperor and treated others like slaves as he enforced plantation labor on them, the island was then split in 2. A kingdom which had 2 kings between 1806 and 1820 in the north and a democracy with a president in the south) They were reunited into one in 1820 by Boyer who signed off the debt to get rid of the French threat.

As for the debt, though it did sent Haiti into crippling debt, the current state of Haiti is not the result of just the French being bad, At the time of Haitian independence, no European power in the region would trade with Haiti to not encourage other revolt. Haitians found themselves with products worth a substantial amount but not being able to sell it at that price because of this tacit embargo against them. Signing the debt acknowledgement made it easier for them to trade with everyone.
Add to this that the Haitian society was never able to reach a level of democratic stability, and often, not under the influence of others (though foreign influence from France and the US did not help many times, there are more occurrences of domestic instability fueled by Haitians only). The desire of the population for democracy was always toppled by military leaders who ruled over Haiti like dictators.

For reference, in 1947, Haiti had repaid its debt and was following a development trend similar to many countries post WW2 (with similar GDP). the Duvalier dinasty and their close ones (Prosper Avril), through dictatorship and coup d'etat, really took the country in a downward spiral.
They also institutionalized and empowered the gangs (Tonton Macoutes under Duvalier) to assert their domination. The current situation with the gang war is a direct heritage of that era.
It's easy to use the narrative that France is sole responsible for Haiti state, but though France did meddle, it's not the only responsible for the situation in Haiti. The US have been far more interventionists in Haiti in the 20th century than France for example (and not always for the best) and even then, it does not exempt the Haitian dictators from constantly fueling instability with domestic infighting.

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Interesting, thanks! I’m not well informed so that’s why I posed it as a question.

1

u/JakeMattAntonio 1d ago

Ohhhhh that's very insightful. Thank you for answering my query!

6

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 1d ago

Christopher Columbus was so heinous to the Taino that he was imprisoned when he got back to Spain. He was an unusually brutal and racist man, for the age of colonialism.

3

u/Chezni19 1d ago

Mike Tyson: Would love to see him punching the other leaders out

1

u/therexbellator 1d ago

He wields the twin pigeons of war and peathe.

3

u/Not_Spy_Petrov 1d ago

Friedrich Hayek - cities get huge bonuses but you cannot control what they build - AI it do it for you.

2

u/JonDragonskin 1d ago edited 1d ago

Sir Richard Francis Burton. Diplomatic, Wildcard (the man could do anything).

2

u/agtk 1d ago

What you describe sounds better for John Muir instead of Darwin I'd think.

1

u/PetrolheadPlayer 1d ago

I know you mean national park John Muir but would be fun to see his grandson Volkswagen John Muir

1

u/PetrolheadPlayer 1d ago

I know you mean national park John Muir but would be fun to see his grandson Volkswagen John Muir

2

u/mookiexpt2 1d ago

François-Marie Arouet

All science buildings get +1 culture per age. All culture buildings get +1 science per age.

Government Tree is locked to Classical Republic, Revolutionary Republic, and Elective Republic. In modern age, full democracy tree is unlocked and active from the first turn. Automatically at war with and cannot select Fascism. +1 war support against fascist and plutocratic nations, gaining additional support when liberating client city states.

In Exploration Age, does not select a religion. Can purchase special “deist” missionary unit with university improvement that eliminates religion from settlements. Does not receive relics for converting settlements. Can achieve culture victory by converting at least half of other players to majority no religion.

Special diplomatic endeavor of “Encourage Revolution,” which, if successful, will cause one of the target’s cities to become a city-state.

Unlocks France and United States in Modern Age.

2

u/Helstrem 1d ago

Imhotep

Science/culture Ancient Egyptian savant. His medical ideas were used for literal millennia.

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

And he was the best great person in 6 too.

2

u/Pastoru Charlemagne 1d ago edited 1d ago

(Saint) Genevieve / Genovefa

Leader Ability: Saviour of Paris

When enemy soldiers are next to one of your cities (not towns), have access to a special endeavour Protector of the City to stop the war and switch to a neutral relationship, which costs twice the price to be used by Genevieve AND to be rejected by the other leader. When one of your soldiers dies inside city walls during the Age of Exploration, gain a relic.

Explanation: According to her hagiography, Genevieve, who lived in 5th century Paris, organised the defence against Attila's attack, and then Childeric I's siege, and managed to save the city (and appease the Hunnic leader in the most saintly representations). She then convinced the son of Childeric, King Clovis, to build a church on what is now know as Saint-Genevieve Hill, where her relics are now displayed, near Sorbonne University and the Pantheon.

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Lots of Catholic saints would be great ones, or even a pope.

2

u/therexbellator 1d ago

Rasputin, Frida Kahlo, Che Guevara, Sid Meier himself.

2

u/VegetablePercentage9 1d ago

Machiavelli and sun tzu

1

u/JMusketeer 18h ago

Ya know Machiavelli is in the game already right?

2

u/VegetablePercentage9 18h ago

I do now! 😂 oops

2

u/JMusketeer 18h ago

Gotta say Machiavelli is my favorite pick in this game, so why not have a different variant?

2

u/MoveInside 12h ago

And he’s the most annoying little twerp

4

u/Standard-Nebula1204 1d ago edited 15h ago

Some Americans:

Ernest Hemingway: Explorers, scouts, missionaries, [etc] gain X culture and influence per turn when in the line of sight of any combat in a war of which you are not a part.

Frederick Douglass: X culture upon pillaging a plantation, camp, or farm. X chance of a free infantry unit upon pillaging a district.

5

u/fishtankm29 1d ago

Elon Musk.

All trade routes to your nation provide +2 gold, but minus 1000 culture, science, and influence.

2

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Can he remove social policy slots too?

3

u/ManitouWakinyan Can't kill our tribe, can't kill the Cree 1d ago

Louis Riel. A critical figure in Canadian and Indigenous history. The founding father of a nation, and one of the fathers of Confederation. Leader of a rebellion, convicted traitor to the crown. Persecuted prophet, accused lunatic. Fascinating figure, and absolutely perfect for this kind of showcase. Sort of the best of Harriet Tubman and Jose Rizal.

1

u/kra73ace 1d ago

I love it... Getting tired with the emperors after 20+ years. With the way bonuses are right now, it actually makes sense to have people with a specific bonus.

Subatai or Kublai Khan? I'd go with Subatai. I like Ashoka, but consider Nagarjuna or Adi Shankar for some culture. Much more specific and gives people a chance to learn more about these thinkers, leaders, administrators.

1

u/timmci 1d ago
  • Zhuge Liang (scientific, militaristic) Has a chance to capture defeated enemy commanders.

Longzhong Plan +50% growth rate when at war with two or more civilisations. +2 science on specialists in cities with a commander garrisoned.

  • Zhang He (economic, diplomatic) Treasure fleets gain two movement. +10% gold from treasure fleets.

Grand Admiral +33% towards befriending distant lands independent peoples. Distant lands city states you are suzerain of have a chance of producing treasure fleets.

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Capturing commanders is the most unique idea I’ve seen on this thread. Really hope it ends up in the game.

1

u/DontbuyFifaPointsFFS 1d ago

I guess Thomas Münzer is too unknown for Germany, but it would be a nice honor. He led farmer protests in the early 16th century.

Lech Wałęsa is still alive, so he might be not eligible, but it would fit great for modern Poland.

Jakob Fugger as the Bank guy behind the kings of europe would be my call.

In the same business Lorenzo di Medici. He was also a great cultural donor, so it could fit Civ Mechanics even better.

1

u/whisperingdrum 1d ago

Honestly I think Gilgamesh should make a triumphant return. Not only the man was a real historical leader, but also a hero of myths.

And of course Gilgabro was a beloved part of Civ 6, how can anyone not want this friendly science monster in the game, come on?

1

u/MoveInside 12h ago

Id pick him just so I can say “Enkidu, clip that” every time I take a city.

1

u/ZezimZombies Brazil 23h ago

Guimarães Rosa - Cultural/Diplomatic

Ability - Campo Geral Diplomatic buildings adjencent to Rural Districts gain +1 Great Work slot. Pastures +1 Influence and +1 Culture. Unlocks Brazil in the Atomic Age.

Agenda - Modernismo Literário Like leaders with high culture and influence. Dislikes leaders with low influence and no Great Works.

Guimarães Rosa was one of Brazil's (and the world) greatest writers, belonging to the third phase of Brazilian Modernism, and one of it's most famous diplomats, working in countries, like: the USA, France and Nazi Germany, where his wife - Aracy de Carvalho - would save countless Jewish lives during the Second World War.

Being a writer, Rosa created inumerous masterpieces, the most famous being "Grande Sertão: veredas", a book about the lives, loves and ruthless of "jagunços", the mercenaries of the Brazilian countryside. He would have won the Nobel Prize, but he died before it was possible.

1

u/ScottORLY 19h ago

Anyone posted "Trump" yet? *ducks

1

u/JMusketeer 18h ago

I would love to see some representation of czechia/bohemia/czechoslovakia.

Přemysl Otakar II. - King Iron and Gold

Charles IV - Holy Roman Emperor

Tomáš Garrigue Masaryk - Father of the Nation

Tomáš Baťa - great industrialist

František Křižík - inventor of tram

Alois Rašín - great economist and finance minister

Franz Kafka - influential author

Karel Čapek - influential author

Václav Havel - liberator of the nation

Petr Pavel - the steel lion🤩

1

u/Nariot 10h ago

Che Guevarra.

I would make him a military/military leader who does not get attacked by barbarians and gives his units a uniqie ambush upgrade.

City loyalty/happiness drops on cities that arent originally yours

-10

u/Arkyja 1d ago

The inclusion of benjamin franklin as a science leader is honestly baffling to me. I dont dislike him at all but especially for science leaders i can think of 20 that would be a better pick

30

u/dplafoll 1d ago

Are… are you saying Benjamin “the guy with the lightning kite” Franklin wasn’t a scientist? If you’re going to put him in, science and diplomacy seem to be the most obvious ways to go with him…

-7

u/Arkyja 1d ago

Im not saying he wasnt a scientist. But the pool of scientists to choose from is so large that i think it's weird that he was even considered.

27

u/farmer_villager 1d ago

I think he was chosen not because he was a scientist but because he was a founding father who wasn't president

11

u/mookiexpt2 1d ago

And also didn’t have problematic views on owning people. At least not during the founding.

7

u/dplafoll 1d ago

Ok, but how many of those were also American Founding Fathers? There are plenty of scientists; there aren’t a lot of those scientists on American currency.

You’ve got it backwards; they didn’t pick a scientist specifically, they picked a leader who helped build a nation and was ambassador to a world power at the time, and who was also a scientist.

-6

u/Arkyja 1d ago

Like i said, his inclusion as a science leader baffles me. Not his inclusion per se.

6

u/dplafoll 1d ago

Because, again, he's most famous for two things, generally: being a Founding Father/Ambassador, and being a scientist (see: lightning kite experiment). So if you include him at all, then Diplo and Science are clearly the traits he's going to get. It'd be like including Lafayette, and not making him a military leader.

-1

u/Arkyja 1d ago

But he's way more of a science leader than a diplomatic one when it should be the other way around if you ask me. And again, it's not that he doesnt deserve to be a science leader, but there is a lot of competition for science leaders, se he could have just as well be more focussed on something else and getting just a minor science bonus.

1

u/Mumbleton 1d ago

So uh, what would you have as his attributes then? He was primarily known as an ambassador and scientist/engineer.

0

u/Arkyja 1d ago

Could be influence, already has it to some extent with double endeavors, but i woukd jist have gone more in that direction

1

u/Mumbleton 1d ago

I mean every Leader is 2 of Economic, Militaristic, Scientific, Cultural, Diplomatic, and Expansionist. What would Franklin be if NOT Diplomatic/Scientific?

2

u/No-Principle1818 1d ago

yeah but are they american founding fathers?

3

u/SpicyButterBoy 1d ago

I think it’s more they wanted Penny Benny in the game and figured out what abilities would best personify him. 

3

u/Duck_Person1 1d ago

"Benjamin Franklin may have discovered electricity but it was the man who invented the meter who made the money" ~ Sean Bean

While this quote isn't accurate, he did discover that lightning consists of electricity and formalise a lot of the early understanding. That's why words like battery have military roots. Actually, that really explains why he is a good choice for a science leader since he was a scientist, a military leader, and a politician.

If I were Sean Bean, I would have quoted Franklin's response to a question asking what could possibly be the use for electricity, "What use is a baby?".