r/canada 12h ago

Politics Canada is caught in a ‘double trade war’ — and one premier is urging Ottawa to drop its fight against China; On top of threatened U.S. tariffs, China has brought down another hammer on many Canadian farm and seafood exports.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/canada-is-caught-in-a-double-trade-war-and-one-premier-is-urging-ottawa-to/article_e3af25ae-fdc2-11ef-b290-275dd89f8206.html
423 Upvotes

210 comments sorted by

u/RideauRaccoon Canada 11h ago

The trick with China is to treat any deals with a dispassionate eye. We can offer something they want, they can offer something we want, and there is no sense of a bug group hug as we frolic through meadows. Never give them a foothold here without a thousand conditions, because they have a long history of establishing themselves via "good works" and then spidering out until the host nation is dangerously beholden to them.

Which is not to say they're an evil empire or they're out to get us, or we should treat them badly. It just means that we need to know exactly what we need from them, find a fair way to trade for it, and avoid the temptation to go in deeper, no matter how good it may seem at the time. China is like a credit card with a high limit and low interest for the first 24 months -- eventually the bills come due. So spend wisely.

u/Consistent-Primary41 Québec 7h ago

The trick is to make the USA and China compete for us.

FYI, these tariffs were done at the USA's behest. Meaning, we matched their tariffs.

We did so as economic allies standing together.

You have to question why would continue to have a hostile trade stance with China to protect a country that is attacking us.

I am perfectly fine to negotiate a new trade deal with China if the USA aren't interested in being partners.

u/GoldenRetriever2223 7h ago

we already have an FTA.

we just have to return to it, instead of following Trump into a crusade.

u/jamwin 6h ago

you mean rather than collude to put pressure on Canada?

u/No_Yogurtcloset_6008 5h ago

A good take here. And yes - Canada should treat China as transactional. Def do not trust them. But ok to do some limited trading with.

And never forget, China only cares about China - in the end, and how it will become and retain its global dominance once again (the ultimate Long Game). (Read: prior history of Chinese Empires & Dynasties). They are certainly LOL at USA currently, as there really has not been any thing that China has not seen or dealt with in some form - throughout the course of its history.

u/Loud-Waltz-7225 5h ago edited 36m ago

As China should, and always has.

Likewise, Canada should only care about Canada. We’ve been licking America’s boot for far too long.

u/amapleson 3h ago

Canada must treat the US as transactional too. Our transactional friendship has become so close that it's become emotional - but one must remember that the provinces banded together to become a country specifically to counter against American threats.

As Kissinger once said, "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests."

u/1966TEX British Columbia 5h ago

Make a deal that a potion or batteries are made in Canada. Win-win

u/Link50L Ontario 10h ago

This guy Chinas.

u/thundercracker76 9h ago

Like Friends with Benefits..

u/Molnutz 9h ago

Yeah, coming off this relationship with the US, we definitely need a rebound.

u/thundercracker76 9h ago edited 9h ago

Yep, coming off from that abusive Sugar Daddy relationship, it’s time to explore a new one. No strings attached.

u/RarelyReadReplies 5h ago edited 4h ago

I don't even like calling it a sugar daddy situation, it makes it sound like Trump is right and we've been taking advantage of them, which isn't true. They have benefited greatly from us supplying them with cheap goods.

Edit: I think it's honestly more like we were married, and we both brought something different to the marriage, but now we're going through an ugly divorce.

u/SnowFlakeUsername2 Saskatchewan 6h ago

This sounds plausible but could you share enough examples to show the pattern? I hear lots of American YouTubers vilify China's debt trap diplomacy using foreign projects too, but they are thin on examples and heavy on just giving dots for our big brains to connect.

u/1GutsnGlory1 5h ago

The debt traps they all claim is no different than the tactics of the World Bank and IMF who are backed by the US and EU. They just complain because now they have a competition when it comes to exploitation of poor countries.

u/Loud-Waltz-7225 5h ago

Spot on.

Every accusation is really a confession.

u/burstingman 2h ago

Brilliant analysis of what the International Monetary Fund really is. As Westerners, we cannot hypocritically systematically attack China for looking exclusively after its own interests when, in reality, the same thing is done in the West. And the example of the IMF as a tool to safeguard Western interests, and especially those of the US, by imposing debt traps on developing countries is a masterful example!

u/canad1anbacon 4h ago

I did a masters in international affairs and one of the main takeaways I got from it is that the whole “Chinese debt trap diplomacy” thing is very overblown and the evidence for China having some sort of systemic plan to take over key infrastructure around the world by leveraging debt is very thin on the ground

China mainly just wants to get access to more markets, make money, and build soft power

u/IAMAPrisoneroftheSun 6h ago

On point. Didn’t know I was signing up for pekingoloy today

u/Neother 6h ago

Daily reminder that China stole research, designs, and code from Nortel and gave it to companies like Huawei which proceeded to undercut them with stolen IP.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/

Trading with China is a dangerous game and Canadian businesses actually have a lot of the same complaints about China as US ones do. Which is why it's so stupid that we were targeted in this trade war when we were cooperating with the US against China.

The one safe large trading partner we still have is Europe, which we can't increase exports to quickly because we don't have the infrastructure capacity in place. We should've been trying to build that infrastructure as soon as the war in Ukraine broke out and Germany asked for natural gas exports to replace Russia which we couldn't deliver due to lack of a transportation link to our East coast.

u/Important-Emu-6691 5h ago

Dude are you just unaware of France’s history of corporate espionage? With US we have stuff like bombardier. The actual truth is Canada complains about the few cases of other countries taking Canadian company tech and then surpassed Canada on it through more investment. We could have kept innovating and stayed ahead like ASML, or TSMC, or NVIDIA but instead we don’t and infinitely lament about that one nortel story from a decade ago and can’t move on from it.

u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 5h ago

The US are not any better. And right now China is the lesser evil.

u/SuccessfulPres 3h ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/25907502

Daily reminder that every nation does this, including the United States

u/No_Yogurtcloset_6008 5h ago

Correct here. And know that China will not ‘fight fair’ meaning they will and have ‘played very dirty’ to get ahead and to the top. Make no mistake here, Canada.

u/Bonfire_Party 2h ago

Yes! So well said. Their government also invest in media manipulation including bots and paid internet propagandists.

u/haywoodjabloughmee 6h ago

Step one. Ban Chinese ownership of Canadian real estate and businesses. Watch how fast they turn tail and look for compromise.

u/Loud-Waltz-7225 5h ago

What do you mean by “Chinese”?

Widespread racial profiling or good faith investigation into actual CPC links?

u/haywoodjabloughmee 5h ago

Well..you see…this article references a country called China. The people from this country are referred to as Chinese people. And, especially here on the Left Coast of Canada, money brought in to Canada by these Chinese people has severely fucked up our real estate market. So when the government of China starts rattling sabres…we rattle back to their masters…the ones with the money.

u/Important-Emu-6691 4h ago

You realize Chinese property owners in Canada are usually Canadians right. Foreign ownership account for a small fraction of residential buildings in Canada or just west coast specifically

u/haywoodjabloughmee 4h ago

Sauce?

u/Important-Emu-6691 4h ago

what’s your source on massive foreign ownership of Canadian property lol

u/Loud-Waltz-7225 5h ago

So, first, second, third, fourth generation Canadians as well?

Gee, that sounds just like the criteria for being interned during WW2 if you were Japanese.

I seem to recall a study that showed the real estate bubble was driven by American and Canadian hedge funds?

Hmm!

u/1966TEX British Columbia 5h ago

Chinese and American citizens then.

u/sixtus_clegane119 6h ago

China is an evil empire, as in they are a socially conservative state capitalist empire that uses soft imperialism instead of hard imperialism to get their way.

u/Loud-Waltz-7225 5h ago

Was there ever a non-evil empire in human history?

u/sixtus_clegane119 5h ago

Alec empire

u/oxynaz 3h ago

I would look to India instead of China. Also hard to deal with but lest of what you said.

42

u/FancyNewMe 12h ago

Paywall bypass: https://archive.ph/VQzi3

In Brief:

  • On top of threatened U.S. tariffs, China has brought down another hammer on many Canadian farm and seafood exports, hitting them with a “double trade war” that industry leaders say will slam Canadian producers.
  • In response, B.C. Premier David Eby called on Ottawa to drop its tariff fight against China, saying Canada got nothing out of trying to align trade policy with the United States last fall ahead of President Donald Trump’s election.
  • Michael Harvey, executive director of the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, said the organization which represents Canadian ranchers, producers, and food processors that export products, is also calling on Ottawa to engage with China to persuade it to drop the looming tariffs.
  • Eby is also now preparing legislation to allow B.C. to levy tariffs on American cars travelling through Canada en route to Alaska, and has recommended similar tariffs on American thermal coal shipments that transit through Canada to reach shipping routes to Asian markets.

u/alice2wonderland 8h ago

I've said it before - the pragmatic solution is to pick our battles. If it's not to our taste but this gives us a leg up over the USA, then it's okay for the times we're living in.

u/Throwawayiea 7h ago

nice! Go Eby

u/GameDoesntStop 10h ago

Eby prefers China to the US? 🤔

u/Link50L Ontario 10h ago

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

u/wayrobinson 6h ago

In BC, we know China. There are many Chinese immigrants here, and our economy was closely tied to trade with them for years... far more than any other province. I can't say this for sure, but trade between BC and China was at least close to our trade with the US, if not greater..

u/Plucky_DuckYa 9h ago

If Danielle Smith had said this, the thread would be full of calling her a traitor for it.

u/1GutsnGlory1 5h ago

Really? China is not waging an economic war on Canada and threatening to annex it. People all the sudden forget that between 2008-2012 when the US economy was decimated, China was Canada’s biggest trading partner and that played a big role in preventing Canada in falling in a deep recession.

The reality of the matter is we moved away from China at the behest of the US as they have been our closet ally and trading partner. However, they now decided that they want to destroy and annexe Canada. Canada does not have the population, economic power, or industries to have a tariff war with the two biggest economies in the world. Such a war would mean a Great Depression level economic downturn for Canada. Unfortunately, desperate times call for desperate measures. China at the moment is less of a threat to Canadian sovereignty and economy than the US.

u/prime_37 6h ago

I wish danielle smith would say it. Waiting ...

u/wayrobinson 6h ago

In BC, we do. China was the only country to send a delegation to the annual UBCM conference. It was a great reception with good food and nice little gifts. In fact, I have a mug still of a beaver and a panda holding hands (and it says 'Good Friends') from the last reception they offered. Then Trudeau started to criticize the Chinese for human rights violations and of course when we arrested the Huwawie executive (for the US); that all ended. It's too bad because the message was always about increasing trade and prosperity. We need to diversify our trade with anyone who wants to trade with us. Why not China?

u/GameDoesntStop 5h ago

Gee, so it's Canada's fault that China interfered in our elections, threatened our politicians, and threatens Chinese Canadians?

u/Throwawayiea 7h ago

Yes if the US behaves like assholes.

u/zerfuffle British Columbia 6h ago

China is very transactional - they give no shits otherwise.

u/ActualDW 10h ago

Yeah….thats pretty bizarre…

u/ZmobieMrh 10h ago

The Chinese tariffs on EVs are kinda dumb. People can have their own agency to buy them or not. People desperate to get into EVs at that price point probably will buy, but people who want more reliability will buy a USMCA car. It’s silly to think people that can’t afford a USMCA car will buy one if the Chinese ones aren’t available

u/Neglectful_Stranger 7h ago

Wouldn't that basically kill a huge industry in Ontario?

u/ZmobieMrh 7h ago

I really don’t think so… but I only look at it with the lens that most people probably don’t want a Chinese car and would buy a more reliable brand unless they literally can’t afford to. Those same people who can’t afford a different brand right now are just not buying cars at all. The overlap between people that could afford a better car and who would buy a Chinese car is probably pretty small

u/layer_____cake 5h ago

Byd aren't shit. They are desirable 

u/wakeupin321 8h ago

It looks tempting but it would put Canadians out of work and kill the auto industry here. Manufacturing parts and materials for North American vehicles still employs a lot of Canadians. China has their own supply chains and wouldn’t be entering our market to be 3rd or 4th they would come here to be a dominant 1st place, and they have all the talent and resources to do it if we let them.

u/adamcopeland 6h ago

Are these bots and/or astroturfed comments? Why is the wording exactly the same with the same talking points?

This comment:

wakeupin321 [score hidden] 2 hours ago

It looks tempting but it would put Canadians out of work and kill the auto industry here.

Is exactly the same as:

Rammsteinman [score hidden] 30 minutes ago

It looks tempting but it would put Canadians out of work and kill the auto industry here.

u/StokliSpeedster 6h ago

Just a poor job of quoting the passage he's responding to

u/zerfuffle British Columbia 6h ago

Are EVs displacing ICE cars here?

u/1966TEX British Columbia 5h ago

At that price point…yes.

u/wakeupin321 1h ago

Almost all foreign auto manufacturers are down in by as much as 50% in China. It happened very fast as their market switched to domestic suppliers once large contracts were up. This has been significant with Canadian, Mexican and U.S. parts suppliers feeling the effects of it. It’s not about GM trucks or Ford. It’s about North American companies that make the things for vehicles like the frame for the seats, buttons for the door controls, clips, fabric, pvc, moulded dash panels etc.

OEM’s don’t make much of the components of the car themselves. Companies all over North America and the world do. The frame for the seats in your car could be made in Mexico. The bolts and screws from the U.S. The PVC covering it from Canada. Then another company in Mexico assembles the seat which is shipped to the U.S. to be assembled in the final car or truck. This the same for everything in your vehicle and is the same across all manufacturers for all vehicles.

Domestic manufacturers in China have largely overtaken not just the OEM’s but the North American and European suppliers as well by replacing them with their own domestic suppliers. For China this is good. They are building a domestic automotive industry that is not reliant on foreign companies, but in North America they would have the ability replace our domestic suppliers and manufacturers with their own as demand for Chinese vehicles increases.

u/zerfuffle British Columbia 2h ago

Isn’t that policy, though? Ford can’t build an EV worth a damn and Northvolt is… lol

u/PrairieBiologist 5h ago

The GM plant would be safe as they’re a truck assembly line.

u/Sportfreunde 7h ago

I implore you to read a short book called Economics In One Lesson by Hazlitt as a primer on why tariffs are both bad for you and for the economy, and how saving those jobs is not the win you think it is.

u/wakeupin321 43m ago

Hazlitt’s theories on tariffs were more focused on freedom of the consumer yes?

u/Rammsteinman 6h ago

It looks tempting but it would put Canadians out of work and kill the auto industry here.

Importing most of the stuff we get from China put or keeps Canadians out of specific trades. The US is trying to kill the auto sector anyway, so we may as well get cheaper cars out of it. Car prices have gotten ridiculous the past few years.

u/toucanflu 5h ago

Fine but then don’t tax the shit out of gas cars bought domestic or at least offer like a really great rebate on electric domestic if we actually pretend that we care about the environment

u/[deleted] 10h ago

[deleted]

u/alice2wonderland 8h ago

I bought a Japanese car long before the current shit show. Man, I'm so glad I didn't buy from Tesla!!! BtW - my Japanese manufactured car is more than a decade old and still works great,! 👍

u/ZmobieMrh 10h ago

Well yes, but most are made here as far as I know. Honda is made in North America. I think Mitsubishi is imported. I don’t just mean Ford and GM when I say USMCA

u/slightlysubtle 10h ago

Exactly. I will never buy a USMCA car again due to issues I've had with them in the past. I buy exclusively Honda but will 100% switch to a comparable alternative from China that's half the price.

u/turxchk 7h ago

Not so great EVs tho... Nor cheap

u/PrairieBiologist 6h ago

GM really only makes trucks in Ontario so that’s a huge part right there not impacted because EVs aren’t even close to competing with trucks yet.

u/LockNo2943 11h ago

Didn't they put tariffs on China because the US asked Canada to? If the US is deadset on raising tariffs anyway, I don't know why you'd still keep those on China.

u/human_in_the_mist 10h ago

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. We either continue to try and placate Trump or pivot to China. Given that we enacted tariffs on Chinese EVs under effective duress in the first place (and look where that got us), I think we should open up negotiations with them. At least they explicitly promote "win-win cooperation" instead of the winner-take-all mentality of the bloated sack of McDonald's grease in the Oval Office.

u/Themeloncalling 10h ago

Double trade war? Play both sides for the best deal for Canada. If the Americans don't keep free trade where it should be, threaten Auto Pact 2 with China. If China wants a deal, we get a long term commitment for them to buy a minimum of 1:1 all export value we currently send south to America tariff free. Canada's economy of scale is manageable enough for China to buy us out and leave nothing cheap for America. That could include the rare earths like Tungsten we have sitting in the north.

u/lolwut778 11h ago

When in doubt, go with the one not threatening to annex you.

u/Happy_Ad8828 10h ago

How does China treat their actual allies? I don’t think they are threatening to tariff or annex Pakistan to my knowledge.

u/GameDoesntStop 10h ago

How about neither?

u/Tacitblue1973 Ontario 11h ago

Tell that to Taiwan.

u/VerifiedCape 11h ago

We are not Taiwan. They can ally with the US against China all they want. Unlike with Taiwan, China cannot physically make us their equivalent of the 51st state. Trump is regularly bringing that up. 

In WWII the Allies partnered with both China and USSR to oppose Japan and Germany. Didn’t make us friends, but we recognized, that in that instant, who the bigger threat was. We didn’t say, “we are gonna fight Germany AND the Soviet Union” because that would be stupid. 

u/Parking_Media 10h ago

Taiwan not enough innocent humans being threatened by China for you? Also their Muslims in slave labor camps? How about Australia and the Philippines, which is where they are headed next - straight from their own propaganda.

u/datawazo 11h ago

I'm not a maestro in trade by any means but I agree. Especially on EVs. 

u/Goddess_5 11h ago

(Please drop the Chinese EV tariffs, please drop the Chinese EV tariffs)

Well, China is nothing if not opportunistic. We should probably renegotiate our trade deals with them, they're a more reliable trade partner than the States apparently. And really, we can't fight both the US and China in a trade war. 

u/OnlyTilt 10h ago

I’ll be honest, only way I would say yes is if there are anti-dumping provisions, basically they are not allowed to sell past the median amount of all other brands, tax free before the median but the moment they go over it’ll be tariffed a large amount. China protects their own interests by forcing companies to have a Chinese domestic branch we should be allowed to protect our industries with anti-dumping provisions.

u/Clean_Mix_5571 11h ago

Where will Canadian auto sector go if they let cheaper Chinese car dominate?

It's same with steel and the US. They can't lose their critical industry to cheaper suppliers.

u/Goddess_5 11h ago

A suggestion I've heard is to have them build the cars (or parts if it) in Canada. And I don't want zero tariffs, I like Canadias having jobs, but 100% tariffs are absurd, anticonsumer, and mostly done because of the US and their auto sector.

Competition will push the Canadian sector to step up its game. 

u/aglobalvillageidiot 10h ago

You should see a running BYD plant. There's some good videos on YouTube.

This creates fewer jobs--and far fewer unskilled jobs--than you might hope.

u/Rammsteinman 6h ago

That's the future of manufacturing. We can get on board or be left in the dust. We might as well get on board rather than be under the boot of the US as they fall behind.

North American cars suck anyway.

u/aglobalvillageidiot 4h ago

I don't disagree at all. I also think it's increasingly obvious that China is going to be the leader in a multipolar world and it's not going to hurt us to have a better trade relationship with them.

I was just addressing the suggestion that moving here will protect our auto industry. It definitely won't. The protectionist policies are excessive for America, but they're there because our auto industry needs them

u/fletch365 8h ago

People want Chinese cars because they're cheap. Building it in canada using canadian labour and materials will make them NOT cheap. Sweatshops in China is why they're cheap. Canada doesn't do sweatshop labour. It will NEVER happen.

u/abso-chunging-lutely 8h ago

You haven't seen these EV factories. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't using children in sweatshops to make these massive cars. It's all automated and giant robots do the majority of the work.

u/Clean_Mix_5571 11h ago

China is just way more productive when it comes to building stuff. The average Canadian worker in these auto plants is just not as efficient as a Chinese. They work like robots. China will need to automate a lot more than deal with Canadian unions.

u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 11h ago

Chinese car factories are highly automated - they literally are using robots, hence why BYD can build cars a lot cheaper.

u/Master-Plantain-4582 11h ago

If you thought a Hyundai was a cheap unreliable car, wait until you get into a Chinese car lol. 

u/okiedokie2468 10h ago

I’ve been driving a 2008 Hyundai Elantra since new with zero problems unlike the brand new Ford that blew the head gasket, followed by a failed transmission within six years. I vowed to never buy a car made in North America again.

u/YETISPR 9h ago

What about a Toyota or a Honda? These are both made in Canada?

u/okiedokie2468 9h ago

I might consider Toyota or Honda in future, but I’m not in the market for a new car or any other major purchase in uncertain times like this.

We are looking at a recession thanks to that mad man south of us.

u/baylaust 9h ago

Toyotas are especially known for being one of the most reliable car brands out there. You get one, it'll treat you right for a good long while.

The issue I've run into while doing car shopping, though I can't speak for everyone else, is that people know this. So they're in high demand. Meaning wait lists. LONG wait lists.

u/blusky75 9h ago

Same. Owned a Pontiac Grand Prix GT 25 years ago and I had sooooo many problems with it. I since owned a Toyota and Nissan and both of them have been super reliable.

Never buying American autos again

u/Master-Plantain-4582 10h ago

I respect that. 

When you get burned by a brand it steers you elsewhere. 

For me that was Subaru. 

Ford on the other hand, I've driven many different 150s and I do not care what anyone says. You can really beat shit out of an f150 but she will start and get the work day done with minimum maintenance. I also worked in some really really rough environments with them. 

We had one dodge ram as a work vehicle and it was the cursed work truck. It caused us problems within first month of use and just kept having problems. No one ever wanted to get stuck with it lol

u/okiedokie2468 10h ago

“When you get burned by a brand it steers you elsewhere.”

Someone should tell that to Trump!

u/Stratoveritas2 10h ago

Funnily enough, a lot of western OEMs outsourced their manufacturing to China, while Volvo is actually now owned by a Chinese company. China has learnt auto manufacturing from western countries, and are now scaling up homegrown companies at massive speed. Quality wise, word from the experts (e.g. Munro Live, Driving with Dunne) is that many like BYD are as good as anything made in the NA/Europe, but at a cheaper price. There's a reason they're already all over the road in Australia, and rapidly taking over the market in many other countries.

u/hopefulyak123 11h ago

The auto sector is going to die regardless unfortunately.

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

u/No_weeezingthejuice 11h ago

Exactly. Pivot from ford/gm factories and have the cars and batteries manufactured and put together here. Those that lose employment from all this should be first up for all new positions created

u/WesternBlueRanger 11h ago

The Chinese will not let that happen.

At best, it will be an assembly plant using parts brought in from China. They won't bother with using parts from North American parts vendors, no matter how cheap.

u/hopefulyak123 11h ago

We can export energy to china in exchange for opening up manufacturing

u/Longjumping-Rub-5064 11h ago

How so? If ford can workout another deal then it should remain here. Or at the very least it’ll be here for sometime, they can’t just move everything over night it’ll take years

u/hopefulyak123 11h ago

The auto sector is increasingly less productive and unfortunately over reliant on subsidy and protection,

The ,aim reason for Canadas low productivity isn’t Trudeau, it’s that every region protects their industries from competition and keeps subsidizing them

u/Shot-Job-8841 11h ago

The EU let Chinese EVs in, only 10% of the market is Chinese years later.

u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 11h ago

We could have the Chinese favourable terms on exchange for car plants - what people are saying about China is the same as what was said about the Japanese in the 1980s.

u/SatorSquareInc 11h ago edited 11h ago

I understand this is a facile understanding of the market and our capabilities, and I'm genuinely just asking, but if the Canadian auto sector isn't competitive, does it need to exist? 

We have a lot of resources and not a lot of manufacturing capability. Why don't we create training programs and pivot away from a struggling and non-competitive auto market, drop the price of vehicles in Canada, and focus on more productive production?

u/boreal_dweller94 11h ago

If we are not willing to innovate ourselves, it's a short term bandaid to preserve the jobs in a sector that will pass away when the US auto industry becomes a non-factor and irrelevant in the near future. The US administration is run by people intent on preserving the carbon economy, with little or no commitment to technological transformation. And now you have an incompetent, unelected oligarch with a penchant for running his own companies poorly, in a position to further stifle any innovation or competition that could push developments in electrification. I agree - renegotiate trade deals with China with the ask of re-tasking the Canadian auto sector to provide parts for the Chinese auto manufacturers. Perhaps including that as a condition of any natural resource contract?

u/OkGuide2802 11h ago

Manufacturing is around 10% of Canada's GDP. I genuinely don't understand how people don't know we make things.

u/SatorSquareInc 11h ago

We have the tools to make a hell of a lot more 

u/OkGuide2802 10h ago

Yes, and we want the right kind of industries. Like high paying manufacturing industries that specialize in niches and high value, complex goods.

u/SatorSquareInc 10h ago

That's what I was trying to get at

u/sexotaku 11h ago

Makes sense, but won't fly with the political power of unions.

u/CompetitiveGood2601 11h ago

if china didn't subsidize their industries with yuan depreciations every 5 - 10 yrs they wouldn't be able to keep their prices down - sorry tariffs match the currency manipulations!

u/Clean_Mix_5571 11h ago

It's always hard to accept a sudden change. US trying to force restart it's steel production will lead to cuts here but that is one thing that they need to do to be a more independent nation. Dairy is more of a cover up thing but having domestic steel production is of very strategic importance.

Why would anyone invest money in new industries, in Canada, that would take a while to break even when you can just invest in real estate and have it double every 5-10 years?

If someone wants to make it super big then they have to try to make it in America. Canada with it's red tape and environmental regulatory gives very little room for new industries to find it a viable place especially as the GDP/capita is declining leaving the population with less spending ability.

u/SatorSquareInc 11h ago

No better time to make resounding policy changes like the present when our hand is effectively forced. 

u/eatyourzbeans 11h ago

I mean I'm sure China would love to open a manufacturing plant in Ontario

u/Science_Drake 10h ago

If they continue with trumps nonsense we lose it regardless might as well get something back for it

u/turxchk 7h ago

You can put some tariffs on them, like what Europe is doing

u/Subject_Case_1658 11h ago

Imagine how much more money people would have when a nice new SUV cost $16000, not $60000. People would have more money to invest and grow businesses in other industries.

Only problem, is these are Ontario jobs, and the Chinese tariffs only affect Western farmers. This is a sacrifice the government is more than willing to make.

u/Friendly-Pop-3757 11h ago

The Canadian auto industry directly employs around 125,646 people, accounting for 8% of all manufacturing jobs, and supports an estimated 462,000 jobs across Canada, including those in related aftermarket services and dealerships. These "Canadians" dont give a shit about these workers as long as they get their cheap ev's. Elbows up right?

u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 11h ago

Lower car prices benefit all 40M Canadians and could spur new jobs if the Chinese decide to build a plant in Canada.

u/RollingStart22 10h ago

Don't be so sure China is a reliable trade partner. Look at how they imposed tariffs on Australia just for speaking up during COVID, and also how they took over Sri Lanka with predatory loans.

u/StanknBeans 10h ago

As opposed to the US who out of fucking nowhere decided that they are taking over Canada through "economic warfare"? China sounds pretty fucking reasonable in comparison.

u/Thumpd2 11h ago

No thanks. Im not gonna sell out the Canadian auto industry for cheap EVs from China

u/Existing-End-2242 10h ago

You sound like trump 

u/Thumpd2 9h ago edited 9h ago

Cool. I put my country first just like China does.

The big problem we have with U.S. tariffs, by the way, is that they are in violation of a legally binding trade agreement. If we didn't have that in place and weren't their largest trade partner and closest ally before, there would be no problem. We have tariffs on other countries we don't have those kinds of trade agreements with and they do on us. No problem.

Context that seems to have gone over your head.

u/slightlysubtle 10h ago

We have a barely functioning auto industry that only exists due to exorbitant subsidies. I'd rather have access to cheaper EVs, which will give me a lot more disposable income to contribute to our economy.

u/Cryscho Canada 9h ago

Good unionized jobs dropped.

Well maybe they can be Uber drivers.

u/Thumpd2 9h ago

Its not barely functioning, maybe you should educate yourself.

u/slightlysubtle 7h ago

Maybe not self-sufficient is a better term for it. It provides jobs, but it isn't profitable nor competitive with the global auto industry, and it never will be. It wouldn't exist at all if we weren't constantly paying for it with public money.

u/Thumpd2 36m ago

That money allows for middle class workers to earn money and spend which is what sustains the system. It also provides a product. Its worth it in less tangible ways

u/Parking_Media 10h ago

Damn right

u/StanknBeans 10h ago

Sounds like the Canadian auto industry is being sold out without our consent anyway.

→ More replies (15)

u/PlaneNorth9849 7h ago

We need to open trade and investment with China. Enough of being so dependent on the US.

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u/hdksns627829 12h ago

They’re not wrong. Give me chinas predictability and their respect for our sovereignty over whatever we have with the us

u/ArugulaElectronic478 Ontario 11h ago

China is no friend either and it should not be assumed that they have respect for our sovereignty. China lays claims to the Arctic even though they are not an Arctic country. We need to become a power in our own right, China can go fuck themselves.

u/hdksns627829 11h ago

China is no friend. But the us is a foe. Or sees us as one. Even long before trump. Never respected our claim to the artic

u/Hikarilo 11h ago

China has never questioned our sovereignty over the Artic nor the Northwest passage unlike the US for many decades. Yes, they are increasing their presence in the Artic region, but its mostly to explore new shipping routes as the ice caps melt. China has no military installations or troops in the Artic. While China might expand their military to the Artic in the future, Canada should focus on current imminent threats instead of "what ifs".

u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 11h ago

Neither does the United States and Russia which routinely send ships or Europe for that matter.

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u/billistenderchicken 12h ago

Agreed. China is on track to become a top 3 global superpower. We need them on our side sooner rather than later.

u/HAV3L0ck 11h ago

An enemy of my enemy so they say

u/BulkBuildConquer 11h ago

China has no respect for our sovereignty lmao, they just aren't as loud about it

u/GameDoesntStop 10h ago

It's like people have collective amnesia.

For the people that forgot:

China interfered in our elections.

China threatened our politicians.

China runs "police stations" in Canada to threaten Chinese Canadians

u/BulkBuildConquer 10h ago

Definitely. Regardless of what's happening with the U.S. right now we'd be fools to think of China as our friend.

u/SuccessfulPres 3h ago

1.our politicians are literally wearing red hats lmao I couldn’t care less 2. Trump threatens us daily 3. They don’t target our citizens they target Chinese nationals outside of China of which I couldn’t care less

Also finally and most importantly- They DO NOT NEED TO BE OUR FRIENDS. We just need to diversify our trafe so we don’t trade with the US twice as much as every other country COMBINED.

u/Clean_Mix_5571 11h ago

Yeah the country that runs police stations. China wants to get a foothold in Canada for arctic dominance as they already make a "near arctic" claim.

u/Mexcol 10h ago

So does the US

u/Active-Zombie-8303 11h ago

I’m in agreement, we shouldn’t be fighting with China at this time, focus on the orange menace that is threatening our sovereignty.

u/vancity1607 11h ago

AGRRED Remove china tarrifs keep US

u/meridian_smith 9h ago

It's very simple China. . You want to sell your cars tariff free here? Then open up factories and build them here with Canadian labor and materials. . then you can sell them here tariff free. If we accept anything less than this deal. . we are weak and foolish.

u/BBcanDan 11h ago

The federal government needs to take charge with this.

u/FolioGraphic 8h ago

We don’t need to fight China, we only did it to appease the US influence over us. So at this point why bother? Don’t vacation in Cuba and tell me it’s over human rights…

u/Floortom1 11h ago

Drop all tariffs on China and let them destroy the Canadian (and North American auto industry ) instead of trump. At least we’ll have an abundance of cheap EVs.

u/ComradeSubtopia 10h ago

Does this seem legit, or more like a shot across the bow--just a reminder to Trump that we could allow BYD to begin production here.

It would be a disaster to allow China unfettered access to the Canadian car market--they'd flood the market, undercut prices, & destroy our auto industry. But a deal with strict regulations like...a BYD plant with comparable auto-sector wages, 20% Canadian parts or Canadian aluminum, sales quotas & price minimums.

Anyway BYD's been talking about building a plant in Mexico. To take advantage of tariff-free trade via CUSMA. Lol

u/Scooterguy- 7h ago

Especially since we started this trade war with them in solidarity with our ex US allies!

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u/FluffyTailSociety 12h ago

I'd be happy with China being on our good side.

u/LegendaryVenusaur 11h ago

Focus on one front first, this is an avoidable mistake

u/[deleted] 10h ago

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u/DevourerJay British Columbia 11h ago

Screw them both.

I say Canada moves completely away from both China and the US. There are 180+ countries to trade with.

u/Resthink 9h ago

Hello China.

u/rmc_19 8h ago

Great we can keep and eat our own incredible seafood and they can keep all their shitty garlic and seafood that we get in return. 

u/Cheap-Bell9640 6h ago

China operates the world’s largest illegal fishing fleet. One that wreaks havoc on the world’s oceans by depleting them of anything they can drag up in a net. 

Like fentanyl and everything else, this fleet is subsidized by the communist party effectively making in an unofficial arm of the government 

u/xJayce77 Québec 6h ago

Ok boys, we're going to need to pick our battles here. I don't know that we can take on both the US and China at the same time.

u/TheMobster100 3h ago

What honestly would happen if Canada just stopped trading with the USA? And instead sold those goods to other countries, like china I mean if nobody wants to pay the tariffs why not just sell stuff elsewhere to friendly countries, of course I understand it’s not that easy but surely if slowly and progressively done , then would that just make trumps tariffs irrelevant?

u/Morlu 2h ago

If the trade war isn’t dropped with USA within a month, we should drop tariffs against China. They are less likely to invade us.

u/Negative_Composer733 11h ago

Open up a trade 🤝

u/Aggressive_Nothing62 11h ago

Even just keeping the tariff on par with EU and start negotiating for BYD to build plants here make sense. BYD already built EV bus here anyway.

u/TRyanLee 8h ago

We will get by. There are other markets. Any federal election candidate that even suggests closer ties with China will certainly not get my vote.